Yohimbine delivery

[Par Deus]

They are in regards to dermal uptake, which is the paramount issue with a topical yohimbine product.

They are references, go look up the papers yourself. That is how it works.

Or, again, e-mail me a fax number and I will send the full papers to you.

I am done for the evening, so I will have to continue my end of this tomorrow.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

I know that they are in regards to DERMAL UPTAKE.


HOWEVER, you said that they prove that yohimburn is poorly designed-- THOUGH ACTUALLY THEY SAY NOTHING OF THE SORT.




I am sorry that you designed a product based soley on the fact that you could patent it.. that is the real reason for the targeted delivery vehicle- you cant really patent what the other ingredients on your site... but EITHER it DOES NOT WORK WITH YOHIMBINE or YOU DONT PUT ENOUGH IN TO BE EFFECTIVE..(which would be caustic) for otherwise due to the nature of yohimbine you would get high levels of systemic release.

 

[Par Deus]

I know that they are in regards to DERMAL UPTAKE.


HOWEVER, you said that they prove that yohimburn is poorly designed-- THOUGH ACTUALLY THEY SAY NOTHING OF THE SORT.


I am sorry that you designed a product based soley on the fact that you could patent it.. that is the real reason for the targeted delivery vehicle- you cant really patent what the other ingredients on your site... but EITHER it DOES NOT WORK WITH YOHIMBINE or YOU DONT PUT ENOUGH IN TO BE EFFECTIVE..(which would be caustic) for otherwise due to the nature of yohimbine you would get high levels of systemic release.

Do you expect the papers to specifically state "Yohimburn is poorly designed"??? They are quite clear about the fact that typical transdermal delivery results in thorough uptake of the active ingredient before it ever gets to adipose tissue. I am not sure what you are missing here.

I certainly did not design my product solely based on the ability to patent it. I will say it again, though you seem incapable of grasping it -- typical transdermal delivery results in thorough uptake of the active ingredient before it ever gets to adipose tissue -- after exhaustive research of the literature, I discovered that there was only one compound that has been shown to significantly avoid this dermal uptake -- and that is what I based the design of my product on. It was out for 6-8 months before I decided to apply for a patent on it.

As for the nature of yohimbine and systemic distribution, I certainly think it will increase systemic uptake compared to the studies, but I think it will be fairly insignificant for two reasons 1) the use of a vasoconstrictor did not DECREASE uptake a great deal (it was quite significant (3-4X)for the first couple of mm, but by 6mm deep, there was no difference -- considering that uptake in these first couple mm is already VERY high (probably 99.9%) without the use of the special carrier, vasodilation in this area probably is not going to make a huge difference -- the blood supply is already very adequate, which bring us to 2) It is only the adipose tissue that has real issues with blood flow, the blood flow to muscle is MUCH higher than you would get in the adipose tissue, even with a vasodilator, and in the study with the special carrier, concentrations were still 1/3 as high in the joint capsule as they were in the muscle, so uptake from the vasculature in the muscle was still far from complete, and it would be significantly less so in the adipose tissue -- even with vasodilation.

Also, you need to distinguish the difference between a penetration enhancer and a delivery vehicle. Your "caustic" comment suggests that you are not.

 

[macrophage69alpha]

A delivery vehicle that is not in use by any other companies.... or at least so it would appear and one that works for NSAIDS- not one that has been tested on YOHIMBINE.


THE LITERATURE IS NOT CLEAR.

There are several studies showing that hydration of the stratum corneum and the use of multiple carriers/penetration enhancers have a GREAT effect on penetration. Please post a copy of the three cites, as you do not post the body you can say that they mean anything you like.

 

[Buld0g]

Par Deus ... I was under the impression that you were stating that ANY yohimbine HCL topical product is no good. Now it sems like your saying that your product works better. So are you saying that if a yohimbine hcl product is formulated with that right carriers, it can be effective?

 

[Everlast]

All I know is that Yohimburn is working for me!!!! Par Deus send me a free sample of your stuff since you are so confident in it, and I will compare the 2. Macro, as far as the scientific bs I am a dumbass but one thing for sure, the shit works!!!!! My fatty deposits behind my nipples and on my lower chest are leaving!!!! my nips are not puffy anymore. I feeling more confident about my chest!

 

[Ulter]

I won't get into the argument of the best delivery system. Par Deus is using a solution that is used for antibiotics/anti-fungals and NSAIDS. Yohimburns uses a solution that is used for Yohimbine hcl. So if I need an antibiotics/anti-fungals or NSAIDS product and want to apply it topically I will try his. If I want to use Yohimbine hcl I will use Yohimburn. I would like to know though about the key ingredient used to make both these products. I know that the yohimbine hcl that is used in Yohimburn is formulated and manufactured in the USA with USA GRADE: USP24 Yohimbine hcl. What kind of yohimbine hcl is used by Par Deus?
I ask this because a few days ago I got an email from someone who wants to sell MP technologies Yohimbine hcl from India. It went like this...
Ulter,

I have almost a kilo of Yohimbine HCL from India. It is 99% pure. I'm wondering if you or Anabolicfitness.net would be interested in some for $12 a gram?

Let me know,

XXX

I blanked out the name.
I sent him this answer inferring a question.
XXX,

It would have to be USA GRADE: USP24 Yohimbine hcl.


Ulter

He didn't reply. I know why he didn't reply and that's fine. There is nothing bad about XXX making this offer so if you are reading this don't take offence to my posting your email.
He is offering to lower our cost of raw materials by offering an inferior grade of yohimbine hcl. We won't do that. We will not compromise the integrity of our product to make a few more dollars.
So I am asking Par Deus Where do you get your Yohimbine hcl?
Be careful, I don’t ask a question unless I know the answer.


WWW.ANABOLICFITNESS.NET

 

[Everlast]

Please answer the question Par Deus! For the sake of your product! Jaycutlerisfat said your product sux ass. I personally know that Yohimburn works! Send me a free sample I will try it out and decide which is superior!

 

[Par Deus]

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A delivery vehicle that is not in use by any other companies.... or at least so it would appear and one that works for NSAIDS- not one that has been tested on YOHIMBINE.


THE LITERATURE IS NOT CLEAR.
___________________________________________________


You do like to twist things, don't you. I stated that the literature was quite clear that the vehicle used for Yohimburn will be ineffective -- and it is indeed quite clear on this matter.

As for the efficacy of the carrier in our product in regards to yohimbine, it is less clear. However, it certainly suggests that it would be effective -- i have given my argument as to why yohimbine vs. an NSAID should not make a huge difference two different times, so I will not repeat it. You are more than welocome to actually argue against it rather than stating the same silliness over and over, if you feel yourself capable.


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There are several studies showing that hydration of the stratum corneum and the use of multiple carriers/penetration enhancers have a GREAT effect on penetration.
___________________________________________________


Again, as I have said repeatedly, the penetration enhancers in Yohimburn are not its downfall -- I consider them adequate.


___________________________________________________

Please post a copy of the three cites, as you do not post the body you can say that they mean anything you like.
____________________________________________________

The important information is contained in the paper, not the abstract -- i am not going to type the whole thing. I gave the reference and have offered to fax the paper -- I have more than fullfilled my obligation on this matter.

 

[Par Deus]

_________________________________________________
I won't get into the argument of the best delivery system. Par Deus is using a solution that is used for antibiotics/anti-fungals and NSAIDS. Yohimburns uses a solution that is used for Yohimbine hcl.
__________________________________________________



What do you mean by "used for Yohimbine HCl". Do you mean it has been shown, in the literature, to be effective in delivering yohimbine to fat tissue??

I thought not.

That leaves to possibilities. 1) You are profoundly stupid, or 2) You are purposefully trying to be misleading. Our product is not designed for NSDAIDS. Every single penetration enhancer is designed for the delivery of hydrophillic compounds, which NSAIDS are NOT. Yes, the research on the carrier is with NSAIDS and anti-biotics, but that hardly equates to our product being designed for their delivery -- I have stated on numerous occassions why the vehicle should also be effective for yohimbine.


________________________________________________
I would like to know though about the key ingredient used to make both these products. I know that the yohimbine hcl that is used in Yohimburn is formulated and manufactured in the USA with USA GRADE: USP24 Yohimbine hcl.
_________________________________________________


Oh Lord, I don't really even know what to say. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "USA GRADE" anything. Real grades include USP, FCC, Reagent. That is a marketing ploy by yourself or your supplier. It is non-sensical. You really need to go run along and play and leave the debate to macro and I. He is at least moderately clever in trying to deceive the members of this board -- you are showing yourself a fool without my help.



__________________________________________________
I have almost a kilo of Yohimbine HCL from India. It is 99% pure. I'm wondering if you or Anabolicfitness.net would be interested in some for $12 a gram?
__________________________________________________-


If you really are paying MORE than 12 bucks a gram, I am laughing my ass off. This certainly answers the question about the origins of the "USA Grade" ploy.



___________________________________________________
It would have to be USA GRADE: USP24 Yohimbine hcl.


Ulter

He didn't reply.
_________________________________________________


Yeah, no shit. It is because there is no such thing.


___________________________________________________
So I am asking Par Deus Where do you get your Yohimbine hcl?
Be careful, I don’t ask a question unless I know the answer.
____________________________________________________


Yeah, I would hope you would know the answer because I have stated it 3 times in the last 12 hours on this very board.

We get it from ChemPhar International, Inc. in New Jersey, who gets it from India, and has every batch assayed at an independent lab. It assays out at 99%+ purity. So, like I said, unless you are a racists or into buying American, the country of its manufacture is not relevant.

BTW, if you would like to publicly question the integrity of ChamPhar International, feel free to do so, as I am quite certain that they have better lawyers than we do.