Why are some guys big/weak and some small/strong?

[MJBossman]

I wouldn't consider myself big, compared to a lot of guys in the gym. Note, my college gym only has a few big guys, and a few strong guys. No one my size or smaller is strong as me, though, not to brag, it's just part of my question. My arms are touch over 16" flexed, I weigh 195 at 6'1". But, I would consider myself to be relatively strong, compared to guys who are bigger and more muscular than me. I'm wondering why this happens? How can I be significantly stronger, but smaller? I've been lifting weights for 2 years, I started the day after my cross country season ended when I was a senior in HS. I weighed 155 at the time, so I've gained 40 pounds since then, gaining a few percent in bodyfat.

And how do these guys get huge without lifting as much weight as me?

Also a question for the big guys...do you still respect smaller guys if they are strong?

DB Bench: 120s x 8
DB Rows: 120 x 12
DB Shoulder Press: 90 x 6


My squat are deadlift are low because of a back injury, but I'm better now and started those 2 lifts again about a month ago.

 

[needsize]

it all depends on what you train for. I dont train for strength, so a powerlifter could put up more weight than me, but I can still hold my own, I still deadlift over 600 and squat over 500, but its secondary as all I want is size.
I am probably the biggest guy in my gym, but I respect everyone that goes there to train hard, and uses their head. how much weight is on the bar doesnt mean shit, and it never should unless you are a powerlifter. I give way more respect to the 120lb 16 year old that listens to advice and busts his ass, then to a 250lb jackass that trains like shit and thinks he knows everything

 

[Cuthbert]

I think a lot of it is what you train for.

Personally I want to be strong and stay on the smaller size. I am around 200lbs at 5'11, and I really don't plan on getting much larger.. though I do want to get a LOT stronger.

To me.. it is all about what you want to achieve and how you train.

 

[casualbb]

So much of it is luck and biomechanics. Some guys just aren't built for strength. Now that's not an excuse not to progress, still do try to get as strong as possible.

Everybody knows someone who barely works out and still benches over 300.

Yes it's unfair but oh well.

 

[Creepusmaximus]

A lot has to do with how you train. Some is just natrual. I've always trained more towards powerlifting than BB and for my weight I can move some serious weight.

 

[MattRecc]

i train for sheer size, perfecting my form and using slow controlled movements, i really don't give a shit about strength. If i did, i would join the arm curling crew doing 40 sets for fucking biceps while rocking their body back and forth (like one of my roommates)

 

[MJBossman]

Actually, I should mention that my priority is strength, but I do want size too. Maybe 60% of my goal is strength, 40% muscle.

I train 4-8 reps, and take 3 minutes between sets. I work each muscle directly once per week.

I dunno, maybe I'd grow if I did higher reps, but I'm afraid I'll lose strength.

I guess I have to chose though...and thanks for all the feedback guys.

needsize: I also respect anyone who trains hard, and listens and tries to learn. As long as you make progress, that's all that counts. Because we were all once newbies!

 

[coolcolj]

Getting strong will help you get bigger

anyway strength is due to nueral effeciency, although size does infulence this.

 

[gymtime]

So much of it is luck and biomechanics. Some guys just aren't built for strength. Now that's not an excuse not to progress, still do try to get as strong as possible.

Everybody knows someone who barely works out and still benches over 300.

Yes it's unfair but oh well.

Exactly.

One of the strongest guys in my gym is 5' 10", 185 tops. Benches 365 or more for reps, 130lb dumbells as well. At 230 and 6' 1", I pretty much dwarf hiim in size, but I'm not near that strong.

It's gotten to the point where we both joke about it. He's been lifting for years and years, just like me, and gets stronger and stronger, but no bigger. Whereas for me, the size comes fairly easy, but it's unlikely I'll ever be able to put up those numbers.

So three words: ge, ne, tics.

 

[cmdubs]

I think I have more strength than size for sure, which sucks because I train mostly for bodybuilding purposes. Sometimes when I'm repping the 100's on the flat bench I can see people looking. I imagine their thinking, "Wow, look at the skinny guy go....never would have guessed it."

I'll be starting HST in a few weeks, see if I can get some size.

 

[jerkbox]

i seem to be able to pack on size a lot easier than i can increase my strength....I am amazed by smaller guys who can put up mad weight....I would like to be a lot stronger, but right now my goals are to balance out my physique to get the proportions I want.

 

[socal girl]

just like gymtime said: genetics. (training methods plays a smaller role i believe)

i don't necessarily like to be as big as the boys, but i like to be as strong, if not stronger, than them.

 

[bignate73]

by genetics im assuming people are referring to fiber ratio or biomechanical disadvantage?

id be interested to hear what others are thinking. if one of those isnt on your mind...then its a cop out to blame genetics.

 

[supersizeme]

yeah i'd say it's a combination of fiber ratios as well as having the frame to handle heavy weights.

everyone listen to gymtime because the man is right. i don't think it's a cop out to say this is genetics. some people are hella strong at bench, some can deadlift for days, others can military press small houses, some are big as houses but weak, and some are boneracks with impressive strength. i'm one of those guys who has decent size but shit for strength. the only thing i can do respectably as far as strength goes is deadlift. my arms are over 16" (10%BF) and i can only incline db curl the 35s for 10, 11 if i'm lucky. my bench, military press, and rowing are pretty sad.

 

[casualbb]

I meant the latter. Obviously some short, barrel-chested guy will be able to push more weight than his tall, long-limbed counterpart.

 

[Heahy Minister]

Overall for my size I'm pretty strong. Some areas I'm very strong (triceps, shoulders, legs) whereas others I'd be considered average (biceps).

I've always trained hard and heavy, but my goal was never to be a powerlifter. I could not care less about powerlifting, but my weights are just naturally high. It's funny because I'm surely not the biggest guy in my gym, but I can outlift most the guys.

 

[gymtime]

id be interested to hear what others are thinking. if one of those isnt on your mind...then its a cop out to blame genetics.

I think "cop out" is a little unfair here. I know next to nothing about fiber ratios or biomechanics. However I do know that everyone's body responds to diet and excercise differently, no matter how they train, what they eat, or for how long.

To suggest that a normal person can make the gains of a natural athlete (assuming similar diet, workout, etc.) simply by "trying harder" is simply not reality, imo.

I do agree however that you do make a huge mistake by using genetics as an excuse to not do as much as you possibly can to achieve your goals.

And one more thing....supersizeme is almost always wrong about everything, except of course when he's agreeing with me.

As you were.

 

[bignate73]

thats not what im saying at all.

the majority of people would just say "genetics" as a blanket statement, without regard to what those individual differences are.

However I do know that everyone's body responds to diet and excercise differently, no matter how they train, what they eat, or for how long.

yes, but there are some factors as to why this is true. though you may not understand the factors fully you do understand the concept that is created by them. i believe alot of people will just chalk it up to how the DNA is written and be happy with mediocrity. rather than looking at the "why" of their lack of strength/size, they settle for less.

i think for anyone not gaining the way they would like, "you dont know what you dont know" or....its plain as the nose on your face and you choose to ignore it. we're all guilty of either one or the other at times.

 

[needsize]

genetic do play a major role. In my own case, I can move a lot of weight for sets, ie, I've squatted 550lbs for 5 reps, ass to the floor, deadlifted 550lbs for 5 reps, benched 335 for 6, etc, but my single maxes suck. With how much I can deadlift for reps, it would seem like I would have a crazy max, but I've put up 600 once, and 625 once, thats not much more than what I rep with, but my frame just isnt built for big singles

 

[Lat]

genetic do play a major role. In my own case, I can move a lot of weight for sets, ie, I've squatted 550lbs for 5 reps, ass to the floor, deadlifted 550lbs for 5 reps, benched 335 for 6, etc, but my single maxes suck. With how much I can deadlift for reps, it would seem like I would have a crazy max, but I've put up 600 once, and 625 once, thats not much more than what I rep with, but my frame just isnt built for big singles

Actually, its probably more that your CNS is not properly trained for singles. A maximum effort single is much different that repping a similar weight. Your nervous system sees an overload condition and shuts you down prematurely. You probably have the muscle mass, and the right muscle fiber to do the job. But, your CNS doesn't know that unless you train it.

That is also a reason why some big guys are weak and smaller guys are strong. The smaller guy has trained his CNS to a new overload condition. His brain doesn't think he is risking injury with a maximal attempt. the larger guy with the larger muscles has never re-trained his brain to match his muscle mass.


My CNS has pretty much lost its "shutdown" signal from years of powerlifting. I have torn muscles and kept right on going without my brain ever getting in the picture. My CNS thinks I have more capacity than I actually have.

But I'm a crazy powerlifter, I actually like it!!!

 

[dzuljas]

Actually, its probably more that your CNS is not properly trained for singles. A maximum effort single is much different that repping a similar weight. Your nervous system sees an overload condition and shuts you down prematurely.

I have had this phenomenoa happen to me several times, specifically in olympic lifts. For instance, I can perform sets of triples with 210 lbs on the snatch but when I go for a single with 220 my body almost seems to shutdown. It wont let me move the weight. I try to overcome this mentally but my body will not allow it.

 

[supersizeme]

With how much I can deadlift for reps, it would seem like I would have a crazy max, but I've put up 600 once, and 625 once, thats not much more than what I rep with, but my frame just isnt built for big singles

I'd say that your max sounds normal relative to what you can do for reps. 500 for 10, 550 for 5 and you have a 600ish max. bfold has a 700 max and he did 500 for 15 that one day during his competition. I do around 365x5 and have a 410-425 max.

I read a thread on what you should be able to hit 225 for in order to get a 300 max on bench. Most people seemed to agree that you'd have to be able to hit around 10 reps at 225 and 250-65 for 5.

Don't sell yourself short. You sound like you're right on track as far as a max goes.

 

[needsize]

some good points on this thread. Myself, i always thought my maxes sucked, but I get hurt so easily I'm afraid to do them

 

[Synpax]

Are you guys saying that, body fat being the same, size of muscles can be different with the strength being the same, and vice verca?

What is the difference between training methods? Is there total agreement that you can train for size versus strength?

 

[casualbb]

Synpax -- the body is a complicated system of levers. Imagine two guys, guy A and guy B. Let's magically assume that A and B have the same size biceps. Let's also assume that guy B's bicep insertion point is 50% farther from his elbow than guy A.

This mean that, all other things being equal, B will curl 50% more weight than A.

Now there are as many configurations as there are people. You can see where this is complicated.

 

[Debaser]

There are some other general guidelines. If you have long arms and a short torso you can easily be a deadlift machine, for example.

 

[MataUm]

Also if two people have exact genetics, twins for example, and one has specifically trained his body for max weight, it is very likely that his nervous system recruits more muscle fibers than his brother (or sister). So if one has a nervous system that recruits 10% more of his/her nervous system, then they would be able to lift (theoretically) 10% more weight.

 

[bignate73]

its not as linear as that. but yes, depending on the training the person is used to, will dictate the types of lifts that he/she excels in.

 

[TheOak84]

i wondered that too. a guy at my gym thats 220, real thick, cant even bench 275 for 1... super sad... and i can do it for 10. not to mention hes 25 and im 19. maybe the way he trains? i mean, hes still stronger thatn the average guy. and hes pretty big, so, people at clubs or w/e might think hes strong dont mess with him. hes prolly happy the way he is.. but i wouldnt be

 

[Debaser]

How much do you squat and deadlift oak?

 

[TheOak84]

How much do you squat and deadlift oak?

i have deadlifted 425x1 and squatted 405x1. also, squatted 315x10 and deadlifted 365x5. i dont care how much i DL, i just want a thick back. i think im reaching my goals.

 

[rahul.singh3721]

I also have a lot of strength but i m very skinny.
I think genetics plays a role

 

[the_alcatraz]

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