What happens to your body AFTER using.......

[Tami Bellon]

Have you asked yourself this question or were you so excited to see results that you didn't think that far ahead?

Well, let me tell you now......after using clen and t3 or diuretics....chances are you will puff up like a blow fish.

Yep, and there's no way you are going stop it. It's your body trying to regulate after being tampered with. If you try to throw more diuretics in there, BAD NEWS - you could throw off your electrolytes - potassium and sodium - that could mean a trip to the ER. And THAT'S just the tip of the iceburg.

So ask yourself this.....are you educated enough about your body to be throwing out of whack like this? Do you know what to do if something goes wrong? Because if it does, it may be too late!

 

[future]

Very hard to stop the rebound.

 

[Tami Bellon]

you're referring to your negative feedback loop aren't you? now i've never used diuretics but with clen i never "blew up" after i finished using it, there is a chance of rebound after using sympathomimetics but this can be avoided with careful planning and proper diet/training implementation

I'm talking about more than just clen (although clen is extremely overrated).

 

[future]

You will rebound with clen if only some temp water retention but it should go away in a week or so.

 

[Tami Bellon]

i agree clen by itself is overrated, i'm currently running an ECAY/T3 to finish my cutting(and having to be very careful not to drop muscle mass), so your views are that when i finish my cutting and stop the t3(i'll be switching out the ECAY for helios in a couple weeks) that i will blow up? Can you explain why to me (i'm not calling you out or anything, just interested in your take on this)?

Rebound Weight Gain
Rebound weight gain is inevitable when using T3, the best you can hope for is to minimize it. The best thing you can do is to take a post cycle over the counter fat loss product such as ECA stack, Gugglesterones or some other similar product.

What your looking for here is the continuance of the fat loss while your system returns to your normal thyroid output. This should occur with in 2-3 weeks, so during that time continue to eat clean, do cardio, drink plenty of water and take the over the counter fat loss product.

You’ll know when your thyroid has returned to normal when your body temp returns to normal. Women are especially warned to be very vigilant here, most people are eager to eat more when their cycle ends but this is not the time when using T3, you need to make sure your metabolism has been restored before splurging a bit.

*****do your research, make sure you know what to expect.******

excerpt from iSteroids

 

[Melaina]

No matter what I did I couldn't find a way for my body to not rebound on Clen (except for my 10mcg dose which was 6 weeks long and I lost about 10lbs, I didn't gain that back until I got pregnant and started craving Sausage McMuffins like my life depended on them).... thinking how much I put my body through just to gain the weight back.... kind of blah, what a waste. As for the diuretics I've abused those too.... never blew up by I did obtain a psychological dependency to them which was hard to deal with.

 

[Tami Bellon]

the substances I'm talking about here are NOT over the counter. They are chemicals that people "dabble" in and really don't have much education on them.

 

[future]

Ignorance. But even after that for some the need to win is greater than the consequences.

 

[Tatyana]

oh okay, but this rebound is associated with higher doses than i use, i'm just using 25mcg, which isn't very much above normal levels, so thyroid rebound will be quick, but i can understand how someone using higher dosing protocols would have a significant rebound

Do you notice anything on that dose, it isn't far off what they start hypothyroid patients on.

I think far too many people ignore the rebound.

Any extreme long term diet is highly likely to rebound, and there are very strong psychological and physiological factors promoting this.

Using any fat burners, OTC or pharma, can just make it worse.

This is the reason why I am not that keen on any fat burners.

I think the super high doses of caffeine (most OTC fat burning supps) can have women end up putting more fat on their stomach due to the whole cortisol-insulin connection.

 

[tmarie]

Ignorance. But even after that for some the need to win is greater than the consequences.

Guilty

My own personal story - to hopefully help some girls out there debating. Contest prep was starting to mess with my head so the bf stepped in and insisted I add T3/clen ASAP. Desperate, I did, knowing the consequences, but he told me I could deal with all that after the show.

I dosed much much lower than he thought I was (he suggested 75mcg), I kept it at 25mcg's and didn't tell him. Personally, I saw huge changes at that dose (despite being low). Again, maybe it was all mental and psychological more than anything. Regardless, now I'm almost 3 months post show, both T3 and T4 are running low and having a hell of a time finding a doctor in my area intelligent enough to treat it since my TSH is normal.

Now looking back on it, it wasn't worth it, but at the time, I think I would have done almost anything. Live and learn right??!

 

[Tatyana]

Guilty

My own personal story - to hopefully help some girls out there debating. Contest prep was starting to mess with my head so the bf stepped in and insisted I add T3/clen ASAP. Desperate, I did, knowing the consequences, but he told me I could deal with all that after the show.

I dosed much much lower than he thought I was (he suggested 75mcg), I kept it at 25mcg's and didn't tell him. Personally, I saw huge changes at that dose (despite being low). Again, maybe it was all mental and psychological more than anything. Regardless, now I'm almost 3 months post show, both T3 and T4 are running low and having a hell of a time finding a doctor in my area intelligent enough to treat it since my TSH is normal.

Now looking back on it, it wasn't worth it, but at the time, I think I would have done almost anything. Live and learn right??!

What are your levels?

There are a number of endocrinologists who are suggesting a much narrower range for TSH.

I had a similar issue, a normal TSH but a very low free T4.

I lost half my eyebrows before it was diagnosed properly, and I have never used any pharma drugs for BBing.

I do wonder if the extremes of comp dieting had an impact, it is impossible to eliminate that possibility.

 

[needtogetaas]

I am formulating a t-3-after product that is for pct after clen and t-3 cycles. This product is coming out in the next few months and it will work.

 

[future]

Nice work!

 

[Melaina]

Ahhh I'd like to get my hands on those, juuuust kidding. My cousins abuses prescription diuretics. Her grandmother passed away and she got her hands on them and well... the rest is history. I really never looked into or understood the difference between the Rx and OTC, can you go into detail? Just for knowledge and curiousity sake! tnx Tami!

 

[superqt4u2nv]

I am formulating a t-3-after product that is for pct after clen and t-3 cycles. This product is coming out in the next few months and it will work.

I would love to try that!

 

[Tami Bellon]

OTC diuretics are very light for the most part.

Script diuretics can be extremely harsh and a person can drop 10 lbs of water overnight. Too many of these and it throws you all out of whack. Emergency room - out of whack.

Water, sodium and potassium are a very delicate balance. Mess with them without knowing what you're doing and it can be a very bad situation. A couple of bodybuilders have died at shows because of pushing this to the limit.

 

[future]

...or almost died at home.

 

[Tami Bellon]

...or almost died at home.

ugh....

 

[chazk]

I watched this happen to a girl that did bodybuilding comp last june. She was on t-3 , clen , wintrol 10mg a day
she was so hard tight and lean sunken face chisled jaw line. Saw her 4 weeks after the show , she looked like a chunkster in the face
I was like whoaaa. But in reality she was not rebounding so bad as she was just returning to something normal she was 9%bf wich is unreal looking for a women. So seeing her back at 15-18% fully hydrated was kinda shocking at first but she looked great

I have noticed with pesonal result with t-3,clen after you stop you do gain back weight ofcoarse but if you keep working out hard the body seems to readjust and as your t-3 levels start kicking in you loose some of that fat bounce back and in about 6-8 week start becoming more normal

 

[chazk]

OTC diuretics are very light for the most part.

Script diuretics can be extremely harsh and a person can drop 10 lbs of water overnight. Too many of these and it throws you all out of whack. Emergency room - out of whack.

Water, sodium and potassium are a very delicate balance. Mess with them without knowing what you're doing and it can be a very bad situation. A couple of bodybuilders have died at shows because of pushing this to the limit.

you would be surpried how well over the counter directics work ,
6 cups of coffee spread throughout the day with 4 dandelion root caps with each cup , hit the suana for 30 minutes , drinking limited amounts of water and in 2 days you will drop 6-8 lbs maybe even more of water pissing and sweating all day long

 

[tmarie]

What are your levels?

There are a number of endocrinologists who are suggesting a much narrower range for TSH.

I had a similar issue, a normal TSH but a very low free T4.

I lost half my eyebrows before it was diagnosed properly, and I have never used any pharma drugs for BBing.

I do wonder if the extremes of comp dieting had an impact, it is impossible to eliminate that possibility.

Free T4 .5
Free T3 230 (borderline according my docs nl levels)
TSH 2.0

I do hope that if it was/is from the competition diet that they will bounce back soon! It's been almost 3 months and it's making me a mental head case.

 

[tmarie]

I watched this happen to a girl that did bodybuilding comp last june. She was on t-3 , clen , wintrol 10mg a day
she was so hard tight and lean sunken face chisled jaw line. Saw her 4 weeks after the show , she looked like a chunkster in the face
I was like whoaaa. But in reality she was not rebounding so bad as she was just returning to something normal she was 9%bf wich is unreal looking for a women. So seeing her back at 15-18% fully hydrated was kinda shocking at first but she looked great

I have noticed with pesonal result with t-3,clen after you stop you do gain back weight ofcoarse but if you keep working out hard the body seems to readjust and as your t-3 levels start kicking in you loose some of that fat bounce back and in about 6-8 week start becoming more normal

I think you just described me! I feel like I walk into the gym and people look and think "whoa, what happened to her? She blew up like a whale!"

 

[Tami Bellon]

Free T4 .5
Free T3 230 (borderline according my docs nl levels)
TSH 2.0

I do hope that if it was/is from the competition diet that they will bounce back soon! It's been almost 3 months and it's making me a mental head case.

Did you taper off your t3? For men, it's not really much of an issue to taper, but for women it's a little different.

 

[Tami Bellon]

you would be surpried how well over the counter directics work ,
6 cups of coffee spread throughout the day with 4 dandelion root caps with each cup , hit the suana for 30 minutes , drinking limited amounts of water and in 2 days you will drop 6-8 lbs maybe even more of water pissing and sweating all day long

See - this is exactly my point! Why would people NEED to put themselves in a position with rebound and messed up electrolytes - when they can do it mainly with DIET?!?!? COFFEE! Dandelion root is EXTREMELY mild and a much better choice for some.

Great post! Thank you for making that point. It's what I was striving to do when I posted this thread!

 

[tmarie]

Did you taper off your t3? For men, it's not really much of an issue to taper, but for women it's a little different.

Yes, I did taper on and off the t3

 

[Tatyana]

Free T4 .5
Free T3 230 (borderline according my docs nl levels)
TSH 2.0

I do hope that if it was/is from the competition diet that they will bounce back soon! It's been almost 3 months and it's making me a mental head case.

Ok, I need the units for the free T4 and T3 as the US doesn't use the international SI units.

Also, does it say free or total?

Your TSH will be 2.0 IU/L (I hope), which is fine.

 

[tmarie]

Ok, I need the units for the free T4 and T3 as the US doesn't use the international SI units.

Also, does it say free or total?

Your TSH will be 2.0 IU/L (I hope), which is fine.

Sorry,
Free T3 230 pg/dL (230-420 pg/dL normal range per dr)
Free T4 0.5 ng/dL (.8 - 1.8 ng/dL nl range per dr)
TSH - yes 2.0 IU/L

 

[Tatyana]

Both your free T4 and T3 are a wee bit on the low side, I would have them checked again in a month or two.

There is a huge amount of debate as which is the best measure of thyroid function, and most say the TSH is the most accurate measure, however in a much narrower range than a lot of labs cite, and yours is in that range.

When you were dieting were you dieting with low carbs?

Are you dieting with low carbs and/or low calories now?

Are you experiencing any symptoms?

If you are, it is possible to find a doctor who will treat you on both the low end of normal free T4 and T3 and the symptoms, however, you do have to remember that once you start, if you do think that you may not need thyroid med anymore, your thyroid will be suppressed (but it will recover).

When thyroxine is used as hormone replacement, it does mean that you will need several blood tests to get the levels right, the cost of the prescription, yearly or twice yearly blood tests as well as risks associated with taking too much thyroxine over a long period of time if your lower end of normal levels are just temporary.

Thyroxine overdose:
Anxiety
Confusion or disorientation
Feelings of a rapidly or forcefully beating heart (known as heart palpitations)
An irregular heart rhythm (arrhythmia)
High blood pressure (hypertension)
A rapid heart rate (tachycardia)
Seizures
Strokes
Coma
Death.

 

[Tami Bellon]

You might also try guggulsterone. Not for weight loss, but to stimulate your thyroid.

Guggulsterones - latest research by Nutriline.org

Guggulsterones
(Known as Commiphora Mukul, Gum Guggul, Guggulsterones)

*Hormone control
*Aids definition & fat loss
*Herbal

How does it work?
Guggulsterones are a mixture of several compounds isolated from the plant Commiphora Mukul (also called Gum Guggul). Carefully planned scientific studies show that guggulsterones reduce bodyweight, mostly due to their stimulating effect on the thyroid gland, which controls your metabolic rate.

Who is it used for?
Guggulsterones are useful for anyone who wants to lose weight, particularly for those who have been trying to lose weight for some time. Unlike supplements such as ephedrine, guggulsterones do not stimulate the nervous system, and are generally considered to be one of the safest supplements available.
How does it work?

Carefully planned scientific studies show that guggulsterones are highly effective at accelerating fat loss, mainly due to their stimulating effect on the thyroid gland. The thyroid hormones are among the most important hormones. They control your metabolic rate, which dictates how many calories you burn each day. When your metabolic rate slows down, which it does when you go on a diet, you automatically burn fewer calories each day. This means that the rate at which you lose weight slows down [5].

However, guggulsterones naturally stimulate the activity of the thyroid gland, returning your metabolic rate to where it should be. This means that weight loss becomes faster and easier, as your body naturally burns more calories each day. In one study carried in the journal Current Therapeutic Research, test subjects using a supplement containing guggulsterones lost fat three times faster compared to those using diet and exercise alone [1].

Following the six-week program, the group using the guggulsterone-based supplement lost 9.5 pounds of fat, compared to 3.1 pounds in those who just followed the diet and exercise programme. When the research team measured thyroid activity in three of the subjects, they found an 8-10% increase in thyroid hormone levels.

Guggulsterones are considered to be one of the safest supplements available, and do not stimulate the nervous system in the same way as products like ephedrine. They're also approved in India for lowering elevated cholesterol and triglyceride levels [2, 4]. Studies show that guggulsterones lower triglycerides and cholesterol as well as LDL and VLDL cholesterol (the "bad" cholesterol) [3]. At the same time, it raises levels of HDL cholesterol (the "good" cholesterol).
How do I use it?

A common intake of guggulsterones is 25 milligrams three times per day, in the form of Guggul extract standardised to 10% guggulsterones.

What results can I expect?
The effect of guggulsterones on weight loss usually becomes noticeable after 10-14 days. When guggulsterones are combined with other compounds (see below), you can expect to reach your weight loss goals a lot more quickly.
What can it be combined with?

Some experts recommend that guggulsterones be combined with Forskolin, a plant extract taken from the roots of the Coleus Forskohlii plant. Both of these compounds work in a slightly different way, and will make weight loss faster and easier when combined with a controlled-calorie diet and programme of regular exercise.

1. Antonio, J., Colker, C.M., Torina, G.C., & Shi, Q., Brink, W.D., & Kalman, D. (1999). Effects of a standardized guggulsterone phosphate supplement on body composition in overweight adults: A pilot study. Current Therapeutic Research Clinical and Experimental, 60, 220-227
2. Satyavati GV.(1988). Gum guggul (Commiphora mukul)-The success of an ancient insight leading to a modern discovery. Indian Journal of Medicine, 87, 327-335
3. Nityanand S, Kapoor NK. (1971). Hypocholesterolemic effect of Commiphora mukul resin (Guggal). Indian Journal of Experimental Biology, 9, 367-77
4. Singh K, Chander R, Kapoor NK. (1997). Guggulsterone, a potent hypolipidaemic, prevents oxidation of low density lipoprotein. Phytotherapy Research, 11, 291-294
5. Rosenbaum, M., Hirsch, J., & Leibel, R.L. (2000). Effects of changes in body weight on carbohydrate metabolism, catecholamine excretion, and thyroid function. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 71, 1421-1432

 

[tmarie]

Thanks ladies for the great information!

 

[Melaina]

Tami, that was really good information!! Now, I am no competitor but I have had 2 babies and I've noticed after about 8 months post partum by weight increases and plateaus. I've had my thyroid checked and everything was fine.... after much research I found it was very common around 7-9 months PP.... I will have to google and find some.... I know forskolin is a common weight loss compound. I have to laugh because the first time I read a product I skimmed it too fast and though.... why do they have forskin in here, ewww.

 

[Tatyana]

This is one reason I highly recommend that people have blood work done before they mess with their bodies.

I am quite fortunate in that I work in a lab and my GP and consultant let me test myself for all sorts of things, and I have base levels for a lot of my biochemistry, coagulation and haematology parameters.

If you haven't had a thyroid function test when you were healthy and before you use thyroid hormones, it is quite difficult to tell if the levels you have after using thryoxine or T3 are normal for you or if you have been slighty suppressed.

This is the other issue for women. Our hormones fluctuate wildly throughout the month, so if you are going to be checking sex hormones and gonadotrophins (oestrogen, progesterone, testosterone, LH/FSH), it is best to do it on the same day after the onset of your period.

Typically day four or five is best for testing for the onset of menopause or any issues with your ovaries, and day 21 for fertility.

 

[sbt2082]

Lots of info in here!

Awesome on coming up with a new product Needto!

 

[superqt4u2nv]

I do agree about the OTC diretics the first bodybuilding show I did I used OTC cause I didn't want a rebound cause I wanted to do another show in 4 weeks the 2nd show I used a none OTC and it pulled out way to much water my legs looked really flat compared to the first show.

 

[Tami Bellon]

I do agree about the OTC diretics the first bodybuilding show I did I used OTC cause I didn't want a rebound cause I wanted to do another show in 4 weeks the 2nd show I used a none OTC and it pulled out way to much water my legs looked really flat compared to the first show.

Really? wow - I think that's pretty rare. Hey....where ya' been? Don't see you here much


I would like to note also that.......diuretics are TEMPORARY. Stop taking them and start drinking ANYTHING and the water comes right back. Not worth fighting with it.

 

[superqt4u2nv]

Really? wow - I think that's pretty rare. Hey....where ya' been? Don't see you here much


I would like to note also that.......diuretics are TEMPORARY. Stop taking them and start drinking ANYTHING and the water comes right back. Not worth fighting with it.

It was a lope diuretic which tends to suck out everything and fast I am sure other things added to my legs not looking up to par but that was a big part for sure.

I been working, at the gym or spending time outside when the weather is nice enough to do so. I only get 3-4 months max of prime outside weather time.

 

[Melaina]

Ahhh you must live near me

 

[baby0902]

People will rebound quickly coming off of T3 because it is a medication prescribed for hypothyroidism. When you stop taking this meciation abruptly your thryoid levels will dramatically drop and your body in essence is in hypothyroidism and likes those who have the medical condition you will feel very lethargic and gain weight. And until you go on another cycle most times the weight will not come off. This is why a lot of times people who take this can permanently alter their thyroid levels and require T3 or T4 (synthroid) forever. I'm an RN so just explaining why when you come off you get that "puffy" feeling. The only way to prevent it is to taper off it.

 

[Tami Bellon]

It was a lope diuretic which tends to suck out everything and fast I am sure other things added to my legs not looking up to par but that was a big part for sure.

I been working, at the gym or spending time outside when the weather is nice enough to do so. I only get 3-4 months max of prime outside weather time.

Yep....gets a little chilly up there! It was very similar in Indiana (maybe warmer a month longer).

Down her in AZ, I walk from the door to the car and drop water. lol It's averaging around 105 every day right now. Nice dry heat. Amazing how you get use to it. I drive home with the windows down after I train. I figure I'm already hot, what the hell! lol