What constitutes overtraining

[Debaser]

I give absolutely no regard to fiber type. The weight progression is what matters, whether you're adding to your 20 rep squat or your 5 rep squat.

 

[gonelifting]

I give absolutely no regard to fiber type. The weight progression is what matters, whether you're adding to your 20 rep squat or your 5 rep squat.

But that`s exactly what you`re doing when doing 20 reps or 5 reps. Stimulating those different fiber types.

 

[Debaser]

I don't understand why it matters then. If I take my 20 rep squat to 400 lbs, my 5 rep squat will be increasing along with it. Similarly if I take my 5 rep to 600 lb my 20 rep will be increasing at the same time, even if I'm not doing 20 reps. 20 rep squats are down in iron history as one of the best mass builders ever, you think all the people that profited from them had the corresponding fiber type?

 

[gonelifting]

I don't understand why it matters then. If I take my 20 rep squat to 400 lbs, my 5 rep squat will be increasing along with it. Similarly if I take my 5 rep to 600 lb my 20 rep will be increasing at the same time, even if I'm not doing 20 reps. 20 rep squats are down in iron history as one of the best mass builders ever, you think all the people that profited from them had the corresponding fiber type?

I am by no means an expert, but In regards to fiber types needing thier own stimulus, I would guess the people doing the 20 rep squats have been doing the 5 reppers and sorta stimulated the low rep fibers already (so to speak) Now that they`re doing 20 reps, it "wakes up" all the higher rep fibers and adds to the OVERALL muscle gain.

If someone was to only do 20 rep squats all the time, I would think they would make more gains if they went down to the 5`s. I doubt you could find someone who has ALWAYS done 20 reps and no less their whole lifting career. lol

I don`t think it`s that cut and dry, one or the other, but one CAN stress the different fibers. To help the overall muscle. IMO.

 

[casualbb]

Fiber recruitment always starts with lower threshold fibers and goes to upper (unless you're doing uber-explosive speeds lifts, then it's only fast-twitch).

So for a lift if you're recruiting your fast twitch, you're also recruiting your slow-twitch, so it's pointless to deliberately do high reps in an effort to hit the slow twitch because they get recruited first regardless of weight.

Doing a 15RM vs a 5RM will probably recruit the same number of motor units, you'll just recruit fewer units per rep with the 15 than you will with the 5.

Doing 20 reps vs 5 reps trains the different energy pathways, though, which is a totally different thing. As to that, if you're a BB-er it doesn't matter, and if you do sports make it sports-specific (ie powerlifters do low reps, endurance athletes make sure to do some high reps)

 

[gonelifting]

Fiber recruitment always starts with lower threshold fibers and goes to upper (unless you're doing uber-explosive speeds lifts, then it's only fast-twitch).

So for a lift if you're recruiting your fast twitch, you're also recruiting your slow-twitch, so it's pointless to deliberately do high reps in an effort to hit the slow twitch because they get recruited first regardless of weight.

Doing a 15RM vs a 5RM will probably recruit the same number of motor units, you'll just recruit fewer units per rep with the 15 than you will with the 5.

Doing 20 reps vs 5 reps trains the different energy pathways, though, which is a totally different thing. As to that, if you're a BB-er it doesn't matter, and if you do sports make it sports-specific (ie powerlifters do low reps, endurance athletes make sure to do some high reps)

Good info casual, So why do people do the 5X5 then do 3X8 or even do the 20 reppers for that matter? are they wasting thier time if they`re not using it for sport specific training?

 

[casualbb]

Kinda. The endurance energy pathway is glycolysis/oxidative pathway. There's some evidence that the use of this pathway can slightly enhance hypertrophy. However I doubt most of the people doing it know that. They're either trying to train a slow fiber type or pursuing some kind of "burn" or extreme failure. So yes it helps but they're doing it for the wrong reasons.

You only need it if you're doing worksets of less than, say, 10 reps. But the effect I'm talking about is far from necessary. Obviously people get huge doing low reps. A lot of the HST people choose to do dropsets but that's because we're all perfectionists.