Wake Up People - Prohormones Dont Work

[The_HULK_Jr]

For fucks sake stop buying prohormones they DON'T WORK none of them do. U are better of saving your money for a good protein and creatine (even better some AS) that will probably give u far better results!!


Hulk.

 

[George Spellwin]

This is not accurate. It is just as bad to say pro-hormones don't work as it is when others say steroids are bad.

We are talking about many different substances in both cases. I am a big believer in steroids, but 90% of my consultation clients did a steroid cycle before coming to me, and signed up for my consultation service because their first anabolic steroid cycle sucked.

When someone makes poor gains on pro-hormones, they blame the manufacturer (who may or may not be at fault), but when someone has poor results on a steroid cycle, they usually out of embarrassment keep their mouth shut.

 

[andro69]

After trying them a few times I didn't think they worked either. I guess it's true what they say, that only 5-10% gets absorbed. So I tried a transdermal 4-androdiol and what a difference in results. Just finished usung a bottle that lasted 3 weeks. Every workout there was gain. Gained 30 lb. on my bench and 20 lb. on my curls. Gained 3/4 inch on arms, 7 lbs. with no increase in bodyfat. Which prohormones have you used?

 

[Par Deus]

For fucks sake stop buying prohormones they DON'T WORK none of them do. U are better of saving your money for a good protein and creatine (even better some AS) that will probably give u far better results!!
Hulk.

"Diones" do not work. Oral prohormones do not work. Sublinguals do not work well.

Intranasal and properly formulated topicals, in high doses, work extremely well.

Almost nothing works with poor diet and training.

 

[John G]

andro69

Where can I get some?

 

[satanic]

It all depends, it works with some of the ppl. A high protein diet with lots of training must be accompany with it.

Some ppl take it n expect it to have steroids effect without training. It will not worked that way.

 

[donutglazer]

the gyno I have seen people get is definetly real.

 

[George Spellwin]

I have worked with several athletes that have had a false positive on drug tests for Deca having only taken Norabol.

And yes, I agree abusive doses of some of the andros will cause gyno in some people if they do not use Chrysin or another anti-estrogen,

 

[andro69]

John G,

dpsnutrition

 

[natasan]

I've used 4(5)-Androstene-317-Dione & 4(5)-Androstene-317-Diol (XrX intra-oral spray) and had great gains.

 

[Allnatural104]

So what i gained wasnt from the prohormones?

 

[booger]

Comparison

Prohormones = "Cherry Bomb"
Anabolic Steroids = "Atom Bomb"

I think that's a fair comparison. But I think the only way you'll ever be able to comprehend that is to 'try both'.

 

[IncredibleHulk]

RErohormones

The only prohormones that have worked for me were AST Research's. I stacked 5-Diol 250 and 19-Nor 250 with great results! Also 19-Nor 3-Andro was very effective as well! I just started a cycle of 4-Diol 250, so I'll post my results when I'm done.

 

[elijah]

Bah about testing positive for nor, its because there is no natural levels of nortest in the body, and thats what norandro breaks down to. I know the terms are a bit off but the way it works out, you'll fail for a norandro just about all the time. They may help a little but to pricey for the effect. If they were as effective as people say they'd be illegal by now. They carry more sides, and less good effects. I've used nor diols, 4ad, and andro. All that money should have been given to a worth cause like food or church.

 

[RealDeal]

Don't make such arrogant (or ignorant - take your choice) comments when you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

If you looked around here a bit more and read the comments by others who've used and had beneficial results from PH use prior to posting your 15th post, you wouldn't look like such a blatant idiot. Sorry for the flame, but it was called for.

Bottom line: some people have what they believe to be great results from PH use and others notice no gains. It's all per individual, so just because you didn't have a positive experience with them (if you've even tried) doesn't mean the "don't work".

 

[booger]

My Preference

Prohormones = "Cherry Bomb"
Anabolic Steroids = "Atom Bomb"

I think that's a fair comparison. But I think the only way you'll ever be able to comprehend that is to 'try both'.

Personally I prefer the 'Atom Bomb'.

 

[adepss]

Does 4 Androsteneidiol lead to gyno and baldness or is it the safest effective prohormone? and in what doses George? Anybody?

 

[Par Deus]

They carry more sides, and less good effects. I've used nor diols, 4ad, and andro. All that money should have been given to a worth cause like food or church.

Considering androgens exert their effects, positive and negative, through the androgen receptor (estrogen & 5-AR activity aside), how do you propose this happens??

The "diones" have high conversion to estrogen, so they certainly could have more side effects, but the "diols" do not, unless they first convert to testosterone.

They also do not undergo 5-alpha reduction unless first converting to testosterone (or nandrolone for the 19-Nor variety).

So, it would seem, if you believe the enormous body of research in the literature, in regard to androgen physiology, that if they exerted negative effects, they would also be exerting positive effects to the same extent.

 

[elijah]

Real deal

Gee thats right iq and experience is obviously based only on the number of posts I have. Silly me for forgetting. It was late and didn't feel like finding a link figured most people would know what I"m talking about but here ya go buddy!

Apperantly you haven't read to much about the nor products, they conver to nortest/nandrolone. Which is a very effective product, thats why its a steroid. The amount of pro hormones you would have to ingest to get a decent amount of this however is incredible, and expensive, not to mention very hard on your body. Next the body does not naturally produce the chemical, in any amount. Hence when drug testing occurs ANY amount, even the miniscule amount cause by PH's make you fail. I've tried them myself, and saw good results while on them. Then I followed the same diet, no sups and wow, also good results. I would guess, for most of us, with normal test levels that PH's motivate people to look into their training/diet alot more than before thats where the good results come from.

To Par Deus, yes the diols are fairly safe, but if you read I mentiond plain andro also, and as I stated before the effect on the body to process all this, and the cost of the prohormones themselves is rather outragous when looked at as a whole. 4 AD topically is fairly good, very espensive for a good dosage though, and 1AD and Nor*diols are even more. I'd rather by some Flax oil, Glutamine, and good foods.

Perhaps I was a bit strong in calling them pointless. They are great motivation to work hard, which if thats what it takes for you then glad it works! Next they CAN be effective if you spend enough on quality product, and a quality delivery system. But from the prices of topical andros/nors/ oral 1 AD. You could construct a much better steroid cycle. Or even get inventive with some legal meds and get much better gains.

 

[Par Deus]

Re: Real deal

But from the prices of topical andros/nors/ oral 1 AD. You could construct a much better steroid cycle. Or even get inventive with some legal meds and get much better gains.

Of course, but prohormones are intended for those who cannot get the real thing or do not want to break the law.

I would like to hear your legal meds theories.

 

[the nature boy]

bump, me too.

 

[gtaman]

Prohormones - all I can reflect on is my experience.

Heavy doses of prohormones gained me 1-2 lbs.

One cycle of dbol at 50 mg for 3 weeks got me close to 10 lbs of permanent muscle gain.

Second cycle (sus/dbol/eq) I seem to have added around 10 more lbs lean muscle, hard to tell as I have also dropped fat while on this cycle, should end up around 10-11% bf.

Bottom line is with prohormones you will not exceed your natural limits by any significant margin. Yes you can gain but you would gain with food and creatine too.

With steroids the sky is the limit.

For all the good prohormones do, you might as well go buy some extra eggs and chicken, or invest in a comfortable mattress.

 

[eden]

so in some cases, 19nor4diol can also cause unnatural production of estrogen and DHT and cause gyno and MPB, is it correct? like through indirect route (free radicals or other factors...)???

 

[eden]

you got permanent gains from the dbol? how did u manage to do that? I tot ppl lose most gains from dbol~!?

 

[RealDeal]

elijah --> Re: Real deal

Gee thats right iq and experience is obviously based only on the number of posts I have. Silly me for forgetting. It was late and didn't feel like finding a link figured most people would know what I"m talking about but here ya go buddy!

Apperantly you haven't read to much about the nor products...

First, I was NOT referring to you elijah. Your post directly above mine was on the mark. I was, however, referring to The_Hulk_Jr who started this post. Sorry, I should've quoted his thoughtless comment to prevent any confusion. I do not associate # of posts with IQ or experience. There are guys on here with a low # of posts who really know their stuff.

Secondly, I have indeed read up on PH, but I excuse your assumptions since you thought I was flaming you rather than Hulkboy.

 

[CONTRACTION]

I can't deny that in the past I got definite strength gains from prohormones, but nothing changed in my physique. I have always had a great diet and workout plan and my wife who is a personal trainer guides me. Zip nada. Well, that was long ago...nothing like the real deal though

 

[Big Cat HH]

Try using them right ...

Well, I for one can't complain. I gained 16 pounds on my last cycle, 9 retained, I'd say that's pretty close to what steroids can give.

As for the guy saying he got permanent gains from d-bol, he lies. No way, anybody who knows steroids can tell you that.

I'd have to agree that to say prohormones as a whole suck and don't work is a bold statement, one I will gladly misprove if you spend 8 weeks with me and let me put you on a good stack. There are the bad apples like andro, 19Nor and 5AD, but the rest gives fairly good results, provided you know how to use them.

I get frequent mails from people saying "I only gained two pounds, what gives ?" Then I ask them what they took and its usually like 300 mg of a single product a day. So I tell them that a moderate dose is 600 mg total and for serious gains you are looking at 900-1200 mg. Then they tell me they can't affort that because they have to buy vanadyl or methoxy. Well duh. If you stopped wasting your money on crap and for once in your life did a decent cycle with decent doses you might see some of the capabilities of these products.

 

[elijah]

Doh gotta hate randomness :0

Hey realdeal my sincere apologies, I read your comment, then noticed I had 15 posts and assumed a bit much. I thought your refrence was to the fact I used pretty sloppy terms when responding to George's athletes failing a drug test. Again, sorry for flaming you with out reading a bit more carefully

 

[Par Deus]

so in some cases, 19nor4diol can also cause unnatural production of estrogen and DHT and cause gyno and MPB, is it correct? like through indirect route (free radicals or other factors...)???

I don't believe the 19-Nor-diol has any significant conversion to estrogen (though, the "dione" certainly does) -- it actually should lower estrogen by supressing testosterone. It also does not convert to DHT, and should lower it as well.

 

[Big Cat HH]

Nor-diol by itself has no estrogen conversion and does not stimulate androgen receptors. In terms of the target hormone nandrolone estrogenic conversion is slightly lower, but not mentionably so than that of testosterone, so expect some water retention.

For androgenic side-effects to occur doses would have to upward of 1 gram because Nandrolone is only 1/5th as androgenic as testosterone.

But yes, all side-effects that can occur off other prohormones can occur off Nor-diol if taken in a high enough dose.

 

[winkman]

im doin 1000 mg of a nor-dione/diol stack~ should an estrogen block be needed?

 

[Par Deus]

Nor-diol by itself has no estrogen conversion and does not stimulate androgen receptors. In terms of the target hormone nandrolone estrogenic conversion is slightly lower, but not mentionably so than that of testosterone, so expect some water retention.

I am almost 100% certain that nandrolone does not undergo aromatization to any significant degree.

 

[the nature boy]

Re: Real deal

Perhaps I was a bit strong in calling them pointless. They are great motivation to work hard, which if thats what it takes for you then glad it works! Next they CAN be effective if you spend enough on quality product, and a quality delivery system. But from the prices of topical andros/nors/ oral 1 AD. You could construct a much better steroid cycle. Or even get inventive with some legal meds and get much better gains.

Hey Elijah,

Can you elaborate on using legal meds and getting better gains please? Thanks

 

[Thatch]

There's nothing that I can think of that is legal that's even close to what I've seen from topical prohormones (Androspray and 4-ADerm) unless you count getting a prescription for roids. Clomid is okay, but eventhen if you don't have a prescription its technically illegal unless you import it.

 

[AnabolicDiabetic]

Would you take 2mg of test a day? Well why would you take prohormones then cause that's about what you're getting- if that - who knows. You won't find any amateurs competing even touching the stuff.

 

[FarBeyondDriven]

Of course, but prohormones are intended for those who cannot get the real thing or do not want to break the law.

BREAKING THE LAW BREAKING LAW!!!!!

androstederm, norandrostederm, yeah I tried, no gains, and strength, that may be somewhat mental! Kinda like what they say about pot, leads to harder drugs. LOL!!! I found sust and abombs to be real effective for strength and size

 

[Kodesh]

nah, they work. Trust me, pro-hormons gave me gyno(and nothing much else) long before i tried any AS.

 

[Thatch]

For those that have siad prohormones didn't work for them, what did you use and how much? When andro first came out, I used that and it did not work. Then I used the androdiol orally and it didn't work until I used 3-5 grams per day and even then it only worked pretty well. Have any of you used the 4-androstenediol transdermals?? Androspray from Ergopharm and 4-ADerm from Avant Labs have both worked extremely very for me and several of my clients. I've also heard good things about Androsol.

But, it just seems everyone lumps all of the prohormones, no matter which one and what delivery method into one pile and that is a huge mistake. Andro sucks, no matter what delivery method. Low to moderate dosages of orals suck, no matter what prohormone. But, high doses of the transdermal diols do work very well.

 

[fiatconspiracy]

well howabout you all vote on the BEST ProHormone?
Or the best combination of them ?

 

[blaster220]

Prohormones gave me gyno. I was using Chrysin, too. No muscle gain though. And, go figure, I was using the recommended dosage. I'll just stick to my Triple Threat Shakes and flax oil.

 

[Par Deus]

Prohormones gave me gyno. I was using Chrysin, too. No muscle gain though. And, go figure, I was using the recommended dosage. I'll just stick to my Triple Threat Shakes and flax oil.

As the previous post by Thatch said, "which prohormones??"

The "diones" and "diols" are entirely different.

 

[b007]

Folks would change their tune...

if they tried a stack of : a good topical (AndroSpray or NorSpray) and 1-AD...

 

[John G]

Well I will let you all Know Soon..

I just ordered 4- Diol and 19-Nor. I am going to stack the two and see what gains I get. Hopefully I can prove some people wrong, but we will see what happens. Hopefully nothing Negative. Wise me luck. I will give before and after Pics.

John G.

 

[MrOlympia2004]

They work if its 100 pure, but if you follow the directions they wont for sure. Try popping a cycle of 4-8 pills a day for six weeks then you will see some results. It's like the gear the more you take the better they work. But youll have to deal with the side effects.

 

[Rotty]

I have a couple bottles of Biotest Androsol and a couple bottles of the improves 1-AD. A friend of mine told me that the Impact nutrition Equi-bolan is a good product as well. I may pick up some of that and stack all three, or just use the two I have and throw in some creatine. I hope I will see some gains.

 

[RealDeal]

This f'ing thread is still going? Geez...well, I might as well add to it again!

"Prohormones don't work"...to that, I say bullshit!

I'm 3 1/2 weeks into an ambitious 12 week cycle and in those 3 1/2 weeks I've gained approximately 12-13 lbs. Started at around 180 and today I weighed in at 192.4 lbs. It's a combination of supplementation, diet and training, but there's no doubt in my mind the PH are making a difference.

See here for more from my cycle & Weapon X's:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=43929

 

[John G]

So far

Well I have been about three weeks into my cycle and the only thing I can say is that this stuff works very well. My Strength has gone up so much. I also found out that using Chrysin actually increases the chances for GYNO. AST message boards recommends against it. They also said that manufactures who use it in their prohormones don't know what they are doing.

 

[JonnY BooM BoTz]

Norabol works.. i went to the gym with my friend a month or so ago and i was much stronger than him..
he started to take Norabol and i swear to god a month later he comes back all ripped a lil bigger and made a incredible improvment in strength gain.
Thats just a lil story

 

[minion]

Some of the gains you guys speak of are simply average IMO. I've never done AS or PH and I've made similar "PH" gains in the past.
I think its called the "PLACEBO" effect? Kind of like Dumbo and the magic feather.

I had considered doing a PH stack but now I'm certain I can get the results I want by just sticking to my diet, and intensifying my regimen and getting pleanty of rest in between.

Sometimes its a matter of what you don't do, I guess.

 

[RealDeal]

Some of the gains you guys speak of are simply average IMO. I've never done AS or PH and I've made similar "PH" gains in the past. I think its called the "PLACEBO" effect? Kind of like Dumbo and the magic feather.

I had considered doing a PH stack but now I'm certain I can get the results I want by just sticking to my diet, and intensifying my regimen and getting pleanty of rest in between.

Sometimes its a matter of what you don't do, I guess.

I'm glad you included "IMO" in your post because everyone is different. My gains are NOT average for me. If you've managed to gain 15 lbs in 6 weeks staying 100% natural (no AS or PH), then you have above average gains and likely genetics. The "average" person, IMO, would have to work their ass off and eat like crazy for way more than 6-8 weeks to put on a lean 15 lbs. This is just an example.

So before you sit there and tell us that our gains are "average" and we're stupidly believing it's something besides a "placebo effect"...think twice. I know my body and I know I worked my ass off for 12 months eating right, training right and no supplements besides protein & creatine and did NOT make gains like I have on this cycle of PH. Yes, I got strong, lean as hell, and looked decent, but I was also 20 lbs lighter.

 

[BadAZ DT 97]

I'm a firm believer that your image is a direct reflection of the work you put into it. Saying this, and having spent many hours in the gym busting my ass, using prohormones, and getting great results, I have observed that many of you guys out there just aren't working hard enough to get the results you want. And to note, just b/c you're spending more time in the gym doesn't mean you're working your muscles harder. Maybe you need to re-evaluate your training regimen instead of your supplements.

Secondly, having experience with prohormones, I would advise others to stay away from them for 2 reasons:
1. The dosage levels are far too small in your ordinary bottle. The maximum amount of andro-anything I've ever seen in one pill is 250 mg. Typically I see about 100 mg. The best results I've ever gotten off of prohormones was on a 5-androdione (250mg) x2 + 19 nor-diol (250mg) x2 stack, for a totaly of 1000 mg of andro a day. My results during the period of a month were great, but leads me to my second point.

2. Way too expensive. In this regard, I'll keep it simple - save up for the real deal and some good protein.

-BadAZ-


"What are YOU trainin today?"

 

[vanillagorilla]

Damn, then HOW did Kovacs get that big?

 

[Tha One CrumCake]

Why take prohormones and get zero or veryyyyyy little results with high sides... when you can take Anavar w/ verrrrrrrry good results and very little sides (if any).


ANAVAR
OX
ANVAR
OX
ANAVAR
VAR VAR VAR AVVAVAEAVEBABEBABEAGVVAEA
OX OXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOX


That was my Oxanadrole poem.

Bye.

 

[andro69]

Why is it that people are always saying PH's give side effects worse than AS. I've been training 17 years and have used both and the sides if any with the PH's are far less. I've used pill form and topical and can say that the topicals are superior to the pills. No PLACEBO here. If I don't know my body now I never will.

 

[notpuff]

Just a note everybody says andriol (which iS THE "REAL STUFF" ) doesnt work ,and androgel doesnt work( real test in gel form) with orals if there notb 17aa wont work , and topicals u gota put allot on because not all gets abosorbed

 

[fhg43]

I gained 6-9lbs of muscle using a stack of 4AD and 5AD. That's right 6-9 lbs. Was 154 and 12% BF 4 months ago. Watched diet and started training a lot and am now 8% BF and 157lbs and that BF% is still dropping. Went to the weight room some, but not a lot. I'm an endurance athlete and spend most of my time riding my bike or running. I ride upwardss of 6hours sometimes so I create a very catabolic environment not conducive to muscle growth. Prohormones work very well. I didn't use them to add crazy freaky mass. I use them to keep hormone levels up and aid in recovery and they work really well for that. I wanted to add a few pounds of muscle and I did that! My diet wasn't so could as to account for all my muscle gains. I am definitely stronger now. I used AST PHs. I'm finishing my long cycle with some topical 4AD form Ergo. I used high doses of 4AD and noticed no adverse sides except smaller balls. Wanted to keep it legal too.

Yup prohormones do work.

FHG

 

[BIGRICH]

ANIMAL STAK

I USED ANIMAL STAK FOR 44 DAYS AND GOT SIGNIFICANT GAINS ON IT. I THINK THIS IS THE BEST STUFF OUT THEIR. I NORMALLY WOULD AGREE THAT PRO HORMONES DON'T WORK, UNTIL I TRIED ANIMAL STAK