Tren went cloudy?

[Mh48500]

I recently posted my pics of a tren ace conversion from powder. This was the 1st time I have used powder, all others were fina conversions. The day after the pics my tren went cloudy, sorry I didnt take pics.

Now I am not sure if the hormone crashed...which would be weird since tren holds VERY easy, or I missed something in the filtering(I ran through a .2 whatman).

I know the solution, because I aready reheated, refiltered, and even added 3% BB, which I hate to do if not necessary. The tren held, is crystal clear, but hurts like hell.

Any educated guesses, responses would be appreciated. I am going to mix another 20ml this weekend and retry with pure BA, and switch to Grapeseed oil, which just became available here in Mexico.

Thanks.

 

[Mh48500]

I found this which is interesting....Any chance the Fina conversion werent yielding the amount of tren that I thought? For example, after a Fina conversion my crystal powder would weigh 1.8 or 1.8 grams...I would still mix it as 2grmas...plus what amount of methyl cellulose was included in that 1.8 grams...so really what was my tren yield? Now I am using powder and if my source is as good as I hope is it possible that I am getting actually 100mg/ml on the tren and it falls out of solution in the body...read below

1. Concentration of active product. This is probably the most prevalent cause of post-injection pain experienced by anabolic steroid users. This is most likely due to the demand for underground laboratories to produce more concentrated steroid preparations (high mg/ml of hormone) to reduce number and volumes of injections. One good example of this is the production of testosterone propionate by many different labs. If we look at the preparation of testosterone propionate by legitimate pharmaceutical companies, we see that the maximum concentration normally produced is 50mg/ml. Despite this, most underground labs today will produce multi-use vials of testosterone propionate that are at a minimum of 100mg/ml. Hormones that contain short esters on them (like acetate, propionate, phenylpropionate) have a much higher melting point and thus cannot be made as concentrated as those with longer esters (enanthate, decanoate, etc). Although testosterone propionate can be effectively made in standard amounts of solvents and oil to 100mg/ml without crashing out of this solution, once injected in the body, the solvents tend to leach out of the solution very quickly, being absorbed much quicker than the oil. This leaves behind oil and hormone in the muscle, and at the higher concentrations (which rely on solvents to not crash in solution) this will result in some of the hormone crashing out of solution to give crystals. These crystals cause significant muscular discomfort, and also can result in the recruitment of lymphocytes involved in inflammation thus the area around the crystals can get inflamed with a build up of blood cells. This takes time to dissipate and longer for the crystals to be absorbed into the body, which is why this type of pain and discomfort usually lasts for several days. It should be noted however that there are certain carriers and solvents which allow for higher mg/ml preparations to be made that result in the reduction of pain. One solvent occasionally used is guaicol, which allows for more concentrated solutions to be produced and also acts as a slight analgesic or pain reliever at the site of injection. A more useful lipid carrier as an alternative to a normal oil carrier is ethyl oleate (EO). EO can be substituted for other carrier oils, and is a less viscous (thinner) carrier that also allows more of the hormone to be dissolved in it compared with other oils. The safety of EO for injections in humans is often questioned; however several different pharmaceutically produced injection products have been made that use EO as a carrier, most notably Farmak testosterone propionate. Furthermore, ethanol (alcohol) is converted to several products in the body when ingested, one being oleic acid. One potential issue with the use of EO however, is that a small percentage of users may experience an allergic-type reaction to its use, typified by a rash and some local discomfort, yet this is a more rare reaction to EO.
   Below is a list of common anabolic steroids and when prepared with common percentages of solvents and normal oil carriers (not EO), what the maximum normal concentration that can be achieved before pain is experienced:
   Testosterone Propionate <100mg/ml
   Testosterone Enanthate <300mg/ml
   Testosterone Cypionate <250mg/ml
   Nandrolone Decanoate <325mg/ml
   Nandrolone Phenylpropionate <150mg/ml
   Trenbolone Acetate <100mg/ml
   Trenbolone Enanthate <250mg/ml
   Boldenone Undecylenate (EQ) <900mg/ml
   Methenolone Enanthate <75mg/ml
   Drostanolone Propionate <150mg/ml

In summary, there are various different causatives of IM pain post-injection, however the most prevalent is likely to be the concentration of hormone used in the preparation and secondly to a lesser extent, the concentration of solvents used. However as outlined, with any injection this is an invasive procedure with regards to breaking the body's natural barriers, there is always a risk of soreness and discomfort.

Read more at: A Guide to Post-Injection Muscular Pain​

 

[goin on 4T]

Yeah I have had powders that were extraordinarily dirty. Meaning that at a temp of 110f they were clear and pretty. However, at room temp 75f they were cloudy. It has nothing to do with crashing. Crashing is not cloudy. Crashing is crystalizing at the bottom. The cloudyness is impurities. Next time don't add more BA that may be why there is more pain; one of these days I am going to inject 1/2 cc of ba and see if it hurts. You need to refilter it cold at room temperature. That way its easier for the filter to capture the particulates. Painfull? not sure why. When I first started I would get a few batches that were dirty.
I remember once I had some gear and I would heat it and it would be clear, I used a blow dryer to heat it. Well I was busy not paying attention to what I was doing. The temp of the oil was so hot that when I injected it in my glute it burned, not like a sting like when a hot oil burn on your hands, the oil was so thin it passed through the needle super quick. It fucking hurt, I almost freaking cried, I couldn't sit down, felt the pain deep. I couldn't inject in that glut for 2+ months. So now I only run my gear under hot water if I want to heat it.

I recently posted my pics of a tren ace conversion from powder. This was the 1st time I have used powder, all others were fina conversions. The day after the pics my tren went cloudy, sorry I didnt take pics.

Now I am not sure if the hormone crashed...which would be weird since tren holds VERY easy, or I missed something in the filtering(I ran through a .2 whatman).

I know the solution, because I aready reheated, refiltered, and even added 3% BB, which I hate to do if not necessary. The tren held, is crystal clear, but hurts like hell.

Any educated guesses, responses would be appreciated. I am going to mix another 20ml this weekend and retry with pure BA, and switch to Grapeseed oil, which just became available here in Mexico.

Thanks.

 

[Keith1]

I would make it with 20%bb and re filter. See if that does it

 

[goin on 4T]

I would make it with 20%bb and re filter. See if that does it

What do you think adding BB is going to do?


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[Mh48500]

4T, thanks foir the input.....I figured just refiltering would work, but I did add 3% BB then refiltered. It has stayed crystal clear since...as for the injection pain I am not sure. I will remix another 20ml this weekend and cold filter as you suggested. I am a bit sensitive to BB and that is why I usually avoid it when possible. I looked and found a lot of stuff online about BA and injection pain and they gave examples of a few pharma meds that used 10% BA and had little or no reports about pain. I also looked a lot about BB and found little or nothing to support it so I am a bit more confused.

Anyways I will remix @ 100mg/ml, 2% BA and filter and then let you know.

 

[semper03]

You DO NOT need BB when making tren. Use BA at 2% for 20ml 5% for 50ml. I posted a thread on how to make tren ace on here just go read it. The cloudiness is from improper filtering. Just refilter and you'll be fine. You dont even need to do that you can still pin with it cloudy. Let it set so the binders settle to the bottom and draw like that. Not recommended but can be done. I've done it.

 

[goin on 4T]

Use BA at 2% for 20ml 5% for 50ml.

What does this mean?

If you are makeing 20ml you use 2%ba
if you are making 50ml then use 5%ba?

That doesn't make sense.
You must be talking about mg/ml?

 

[semper03]

What does this mean?

If you are makeing 20ml you use 2%ba
if you are making 50ml then use 5%ba?

That doesn't make sense.
You must be talking about mg/ml?

What doesn't make sense?

I make mine in batches of 20 or 50ml dosed at 100mg/ml.

When making 20ml of tren use 2G of powder and 2% BA.
For 50ml use 5G of powder and 5% BA (2.5ml).

It holds wonderfully and goes in smooth. I've even used 6ml of BA for 20ml and it was great just had a little burn when I started injecting.

 

[Keith1]

What do you think adding BB is going to do?


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I know some say u don't need bb with tren but it will help it hold solution. It's just a suggestion for u to try

 

[Mh48500]

I appreciate all the input. I have made a lot of fina conversions and always done it without the BB, always held fine. SInce this was my first tren conversion from powder I was a little thrown when it went cloudy after a day. I personally have never seen tren crash, test yes a ton of times, so I wasnt sure if it would crystallize like test. Anyways I did refilter, although I added 3% bb....i know I should have refiltered and then if it didnt hold..add BB.

Anyways, I am going to remix another 2 grams(20ml) and see how it goes. I will prbably prefilter with a .45, then the .2. I knw a lot of people say it is not necessary but Whatman have a prefilter in their gdx/pvdf and I accidentally order what I thought were WHatmans and they were not...Believe it or not I cannot find syringe filters in this country. When I remix I will post and hopefully it was just a bad filter and not the base powder. I think the powder is good since I have been runiing this since I mixed it and feels good.

 

[goin on 4T]

I appreciate all the input. I have made a lot of fina conversions and always done it without the BB, always held fine. SInce this was my first tren conversion from powder I was a little thrown when it went cloudy after a day. I personally have never seen tren crash, test yes a ton of times, so I wasnt sure if it would crystallize like test. Anyways I did refilter, although I added 3% bb....i know I should have refiltered and then if it didnt hold..add BB.

Anyways, I am going to remix another 2 grams(20ml) and see how it goes. I will prbably prefilter with a .45, then the .2. I knw a lot of people say it is not necessary but Whatman have a prefilter in their gdx/pvdf and I accidentally order what I thought were WHatmans and they were not...Believe it or not I cannot find syringe filters in this country. When I remix I will post and hopefully it was just a bad filter and not the base powder. I think the powder is good since I have been runiing this since I mixed it and feels good.

I didn't mean the powder was bad as in its no good. What I meant was the powder has more impurities than it should. (The term is Assey % it was probably in the low 90% range. It still good and works fine even dirty, the dirty are agents that the chemist uses due to conditions beyond their control to bind the ester to the tren. This is an ASSumption on my part.)

 

[Mh48500]

I didn't mean the powder was bad as in its no good. What I meant was the powder has more impurities than it should. (The term is Assey % it was probably in the low 90% range. It still good and works fine even dirty, the dirty are agents that the chemist uses due to conditions beyond their control to bind the ester to the tren. This is an ASSumption on my part.)

It sounds like a very good assumption, thanks....especially since I believe your opinions are based on experience and knowledge.

So a question...even with a .2 filter I will miss some stuff? I think you also suggested filtering at room temp instead of warming it up? I will give it a go. Like I said I have been using for over a week and feels good, strong. Again Bro, thanks for the input!

 

[semper03]

It sounds like a very good assumption, thanks....especially since I believe your opinions are based on experience and knowledge.

So a question...even with a .2 filter I will miss some stuff? I think you also suggested filtering at room temp instead of warming it up? I will give it a go. Like I said I have been using for over a week and feels good, strong. Again Bro, thanks for the input!

I always use .45 um and have never missed anything so far. When I didn't have a syringe filter I used a micro-perforated coffee filter to remove the binders from the pellets.

 

[goin on 4T]

It sounds like a very good assumption, thanks....especially since I believe your opinions are based on experience and knowledge.

So a question...even with a .2 filter I will miss some stuff? I think you also suggested filtering at room temp instead of warming it up? I will give it a go. Like I said I have been using for over a week and feels good, strong. Again Bro, thanks for the input!

Filtering cold was the only way to get the damn stuff clear and the filter was a Whatman Polycap 75mm AS, for those of you not too familiar with that filter its pretty amazing. It does easily 6 Liters in 1 hour. So it is pretty good.
I don't know it all, I just know what has had to happen so that it will work the simplest for easy replication. There is no inventing going on that is for sure.

 

[Mh48500]

I always use .45 um and have never missed anything so far. When I didn't have a syringe filter I used a micro-perforated coffee filter to remove the binders from the pellets.

The only difference here is that it is powder, not pellets so I am probably worrying too much. At least with the pellets there is a comfort level of knowing 100% that it is tren, or methyl cellulose. Not that I overly doubt my powder supplier, he has been good so far, but I was throwing it out there to be a little more sure.

 

[goin on 4T]

What doesn't make sense?

I make mine in batches of 20 or 50ml dosed at 100mg/ml.

When making 20ml of tren use 2G of powder and 2% BA.
For 50ml use 5G of powder and 5% BA (2.5ml).

It holds wonderfully and goes in smooth. I've even used 6ml of BA for 20ml and it was great just had a little burn when I started injecting.

What doesn't make sense is why you would double the % of BA used.
So if you made a 1,000ml than you would use about 50% BA?
There is no reason to increase BA%

20ml @ 2% = .4ml
50ml @ 2% = 1ml
1,000ml @ 2% = 20ml

The percentage should stay the same and the amount increases perportionaltly to the final ml...

 

[goin on 4T]

I always use .45 um and have never missed anything so far. When I didn't have a syringe filter I used a micro-perforated coffee filter to remove the binders from the pellets.

You don't know if you have missed anything using a .45 filter. The difference is significant. I am glad you have not gotten an infection, but please don't have others thinking that .45 is good enough. Its not good enough. This isn't a game of darts or handgernades. Its either sterile or it isn't.

PLEASE DON'T POST THAT .45 IS GOOD ENOUGH AGAIN. ITS NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

 

[Mh48500]

Filtering cold was the only way to get the damn stuff clear and the filter was a Whatman Polycap 75mm AS, for those of you not too familiar with that filter its pretty amazing. It does easily 6 Liters in 1 hour. So it is pretty good.
I don't know it all, I just know what has had to happen so that it will work the simplest for easy replication. There is no inventing going on that is for sure.

Sweet, I hadnt seen that before...it even goes down to 0.1um, and has a gmf prefilter. Dude I cant get a normal Whatman in Mexico...I am guessing that even more out of the question, hahahha!

 

[semper03]

What doesn't make sense is why you would double the % of BA used.
So if you made a 1,000ml than you would use about 50% BA?
There is no reason to increase BA%

20ml @ 2% = .4ml
50ml @ 2% = 1ml
1,000ml @ 2% = 20ml

The percentage should stay the same and the amount increases perportionaltly to the final ml...

1ml per 5g of tren powder is not going to dissolve, at best you'll have glue. Not to mention the added heat. 2.5 works great. There is no harm in adding a little more.

 

[Keith1]

It sounds like a very good assumption, thanks....especially since I believe your opinions are based on experience and knowledge.

So a question...even with a .2 filter I will miss some stuff? I think you also suggested filtering at room temp instead of warming it up? I will give it a go. Like I said I have been using for over a week and feels good, strong. Again Bro, thanks for the input!

Definitely warm it up, much easier to filter. You could get away with a
. 45um

 

[goin on 4T]

Definitely warm it up, much easier to filter. You could get away with a
. 45um

No you cant get away with using a .45um filter. Don't post that again.
We don't need people reading your bad advice and getting an infection.


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[Keith1]

Bull shit u can't. Many people use
. 45 but. 22 is ideal
So what I say is not incorrect

 

[goin on 4T]

Bull shit u can't. Many people use
. 45 but. 22 is ideal
So what I say is not incorrect

I asked you nicely and you give me "bull shit" as an answer?
No that is not respectful. Your advice is wrong and you have been lucky thus far to not get an infection. If you don't like the rules and can't respect people you are welcome to go to another forum.

 

[hurricane]

Bull shit u can't. Many people use
. 45 but. 22 is ideal
So what I say is not incorrect

please watch the way you speak to people on this site especially our mentors.Curzing at them is not acceptable..consider this a friendly warning


especially when the person is giving the proper advice.talk to a chemist and ask him which filter should be used and i guarantee you he wont say .45.People trying to take shortcuts is what causes problems,one should not be looking to "get away with".

thank you
hurricane

 

[Mh48500]

Remixed 2 grams to make 20ml...used new grapeseed oil that I had, 2%BA, 0BB. Filtered at room temp through a .45, then refiltered again at room temp though a .2 filter. Fucking tren went cloudy again!!!!!! Not as much as the 1st time but it aint crystal fuckin clear. I am now pissed, frustrated, and have NO idea what to do.

I am pinning ED, zero problems, no pain, etc...but this should be clear. My test p is beautiful and I used the same brand filter, same process.

WHere u at 4T? Need some help-.

 

[Seattleborn206]

Remixed 2 grams to make 20ml...used new grapeseed oil that I had, 2%BA, 0BB. Filtered at room temp through a .45, then refiltered again at room temp though a .2 filter. Fucking tren went cloudy again!!!!!! Not as much as the 1st time but it aint crystal fuckin clear. I am now pissed, frustrated, and have NO idea what to do.

I am pinning ED, zero problems, no pain, etc...but this should be clear. My test p is beautiful and I used the same brand filter, same process.

WHere u at 4T? Need some help-.

I'm having the same problem with my tren a bro

 

[goin on 4T]

Remixed 2 grams to make 20ml...used new grapeseed oil that I had, 2%BA, 0BB. Filtered at room temp through a .45, then refiltered again at room temp though a .2 filter. Fucking tren went cloudy again!!!!!! Not as much as the 1st time but it aint crystal fuckin clear. I am now pissed, frustrated, and have NO idea what to do.

I am pinning ED, zero problems, no pain, etc...but this should be clear. My test p is beautiful and I used the same brand filter, same process.

WHere u at 4T? Need some help-.

You have some nasty powder, you need to find a better source. I have had to filter 4 times to get solution clear. Or your filter cracked? Either way you may have to filter up to 4 times. Supplier did replace 4-5 kilos because of the poor quality of powder. The chinese have to add binders to Enanthate because it is so hot over there to keep it in powder form. If you product is cloudy before you filter your supplier needs to see, send him picks of the cloudy mixture and tell him he is waisting your time and money. If your supplier is good they will stand behind the powder.

 

[Mh48500]

You have some nasty powder, you need to find a better source. I have had to filter 4 times to get solution clear. Or your filter cracked? Either way you may have to filter up to 4 times. Supplier did replace 4-5 kilos because of the poor quality of powder. The chinese have to add binders to Enanthate because it is so hot over there to keep it in powder form. If you product is cloudy before you filter your supplier needs to see, send him picks of the cloudy mixture and tell him he is waisting your time and money. If your supplier is good they will stand behind the powder.

I just shot off an email to the supplier....lets see the response.

Thanks!

 

[Keith1]

Holy god. U got 5 kilos replaced! That's a good amount of tren enth ha!

 

[gearbill]

i thought you don't need bb for long ester like test enanthate etc?

 

[Mh48500]

i thought you don't need bb for long ester like test enanthate etc?

You dont, with tren ace either. Some people use default numbers from the steroid calculator even when it is not necessary. Like test prop for example...it will hold at 100mg/ml with 2%BA and 3%BB, but most people insist on adding much more BB. I see a lot of discussion about carrier oils, which one is better, thinner, had omega 3 blah blah, but they never consider that jammin 20% of an irritating chemical is worse.

Anyways it is all personal preference and in this case I added the little amount of BB in case the hormone had crashed. It held with the refilter and the BB.

 

[gearbill]

so with bb the chances of it getting crashed is lower?and if it crashed can you still fix it?

 

[goin on 4T]

You dont, with tren ace either. Some people use default numbers from the steroid calculator even when it is not necessary. Like test prop for example...it will hold at 100mg/ml with 2%BA and 3%BB, but most people insist on adding much more BB. I see a lot of discussion about carrier oils, which one is better, thinner, had omega 3 blah blah, but they never consider that jammin 20% of an irritating chemical is worse.

Anyways it is all personal preference and in this case I added the little amount of BB in case the hormone had crashed. It held with the refilter and the BB.

So it was a crash?
Because you didnt use BB?



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[Mh48500]

So it was a crash?
Because you didnt use BB?

No, thats not what I was saying. I was trying to answer his question about not needing BB with test e or tren ace.

When my mix originally went cloudy I was not sure if it crashed(I have never seen tren ace crashed), or it needed more filtering. Instead of just refiltering I chose(probably a mistake) to add 3%BB and refilter...it held. But since I didnt do one step, then the other I was not sure which did the trick.

I remixed 20ml, filtered room temp with a .45, then refiltered room temp with a .2 and it went cloudy again around 24 hours later...although much much less.

I have personally never seen tren crash, so I am not sure if it crashes like test. I have had plenty of prop crash playing with different dosages. Does it look the same? Have you actually seen tren crashed?

In the end with your help and advice I figure the mix needs a lot of filtering. I also stated that I do not have Whatmans, I accidentally ordered an off brand and since I order from the US and then have to wait for a friend to come down and bring them to me, I also can doubt the off brand filter.

The good news, Ive been pinning and the tren is great...no problems. I just really would like it to be crystal clear.

Thanks 4T.

 

[goin on 4T]

Do they search every parcel?
Even from the us?
What is the penalty?
I have a few guys i know might be illegal.
Weird how easy it is to get pot and coke from mexico to usa but cant get a damn filter to mexico.


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[Mh48500]

Do they search every parcel?
Even from the us?
What is the penalty?
I have a few guys i know might be illegal.
Weird how easy it is to get pot and coke from mexico to usa but cant get a damn filter to mexico.

FedEx, or DHL are problems because 1. it costs like $75 to get small box down here. 2. They detain the items looking for a "mordida" which directly translated means a little bite. In other words they always want a little cash to free your item.

The local mail is slow but easy. All my powders from Asia seem to get in fine but my filters have been held each time, so I just wait till a friend is on the way down.

The crazy part is I CANT find the filters or Benzyl Benzoate in this fucking country. Go figure!

 

[gearbill]

filters and benzyl benzoate,they're both legal isn't it?

 

[Mh48500]

filters and benzyl benzoate,they're both legal isn't it?

Yeah legal, but not available in this country. If you have never lived outside of the US you should appreciate how easyily available things are available in the US.

Im on a local forum that covers Mexico and Latin America and these fucking guys are dying to get their hand on some BB...all the way down to Venezuela.

 

[snutten_00]

Yeah legal, but not available in this country. If you have never lived outside of the US you should appreciate how easyily available things are available in the US.

Im on a local forum that covers Mexico and Latin America and these fucking guys are dying to get their hand on some BB...all the way down to Venezuela.

I understand you completely, here it is also lawful as filters, BB, but you can not buy anywhere in the country.
The filter I bought from china, BB and BA on ebay.de, com-uk.com
As sterile vials I have to pay each time 60-75 Dolar for shipping and the vials cost 30dolar. Sick is it and suffer with you: (

 

[goin on 4T]

Couldn't you have someone in the US buy BB and change the label and or packaging and then send it to you?

Yeah legal, but not available in this country. If you have never lived outside of the US you should appreciate how easyily available things are available in the US.

Im on a local forum that covers Mexico and Latin America and these fucking guys are dying to get their hand on some BB...all the way down to Venezuela.

 

[Mh48500]

Yeah I probably could give that a try...Ive been lucky so far since my boy works for the airlines and him and his wife get down here every month or so.

 

[Keith1]

I mean if u filtered it u can try it and see.. Heh

 

[christinakoga]

I didn't mean the powder was bad as in its no good. What I meant was the powder has more impurities than it should. (The term is Assey % it was probably in the low 90% range. It still good and works fine even dirty, the dirty are agents that the chemist uses due to conditions beyond their control to bind the ester to the tren. This is an ASSumption on my part.)

means need get powder from reliable sources..