Training method that I have been told is the "best", comments anyone?

[Dzl2010]

Hi firstly I'd like to say that this forum is excellent. I've been lurking around on here since 2001 but I just decided to join today to post up this question about a training split/routine that I just heard about. Please tell me what you guys think. This is based on the principle that muscles theoretically need 72 hours to recover. every excersise is done with a moderately heavy weight.

Cycle 1**
Day 1 - chest/shoulders/tri's

chest would be the focal point so

Flat dumbells 2 sets
inclined dumbells 2 sets
decline dumbells 2 sets
flat flyes 2 sets
incline flyes 2 sets

shoulders wouldn't be the focal point so

dumbell laterals 2 sets
front raises 2 sets
rear delt laterals 2 sets

tri's wouldn't be a focal point on this cycle either so

tricep pushdown 2 sets
reverse tricep pushdown 2 sets
overhead rop tricep extensions 2 sets

day 2 back/bi's/legs

back would be focal point on this cycle so

wide pull ups 2 sets
close grip pull ups 2 sets
seated rows close grip 2 sets
seated rows wide grip 2 sets
bent over rows 2 sets

bi's wouldn't be a focal point this cycle so

standing dumbell curls 2 sets
preacher curls 2 sets
incline curls 2 sets

legs wouldn't be focal point so

squat 2 sets
leg extensions 2 sets
leg curls 2 sets
calf raises 2 sets

day 3 off

cycle 2**
now repeat but instead of chest being the focal point, this time shoulders would be the focal point so it would be something like this

Day 1 chest/shoulders/tris/

shoulders focal point

seated dumbell military press 2 sets
side laterals 2 sets
front raises 2 sets
bent over rear delt laterals 2 sets
upright rows 2 sets

tris not the focal point this cycle again so same as the previous day one

chest not the focal point on this cycle (since shoulders is the focal point)

Flat dumbell press 2 sets super set with
flat flyes 2 sets
incline dumbells 2 sets super set with
incline flyes 2 sets

day 2 back/bi's/legs

bi's would be the focal point so

bi's

standing dumbell curls 2 sets
preacher curls 2 sets
incline curls 2 sets
concentration curls 2 sets

back

2 sets wide pull downs
2 sets close pull downs
2 sets barbell row
behind the neck pull downs 2 sets

legs same as previous day 1.

Day 3 off

cycle 3**
repeat cycle but now tris would be the focal point for day 1 (tris would be done first and would add 2 sets of dips to the tricep routine) and the chest portion would be the same as the second cycle's chest work out and the shoulder portion would be the same as the 1st cycles shoulder workout. Now for day 2 legs would be the focal point so legs would be done first on the workout (also 2 sets of hack equate added) and the back portion would be the same as the 2nd cycles back workout. The bicep portion would be the same as the 1st cycles bicep workout. After the 3 cycles are over a 2 day break is taken then do the 3 cycle routine all over again etc.

Please can you guys give me your input? Being that it has been ilwidely said that the muscle repairs fully in 72 hour is this routine good or Is this over training? If so how would you guys alter this to make it better for bodybuilding purposes (I don't care about strength as much as I do size). Thanks so much any info would be greatly apprciated. Ps I'm not on gear right now but in a few weeks I'll be doing test/drol/tren and this will be my 5 cycle. I've been training for 11 years.

 

[Crocodome]

Just a quick glance, but where are the deadlifts? Not enough squats in there, and I'm not a fan of behind the neck pull-downs.

 

[Catman22]

"Just a quick glance, but where are the deadlifts? Not enough squats in there, and I'm not a fan of behind the neck pull-downs."

I totally agree, how can you have any serious training programme with no dead lifts and limited squats???

They should be the staple lifts in the programme along with flat bench press and pull ups.

I also love wide grip dips instead of decline press, as a personal gainer.

Give me a pull up rather than a behind the neck pull down any day of the week!!

But the principle behind the training seems solid enough, alough I tend to train major body parts once a week.

 

[JDid23]

I'm really not a fan. NEVER train biceps before back- your back is a bigger muscle group and your biceps are used as a mover in many of the back exercises you'll be doing. Also, don't do all of that shoulder stuff before you hit bench on cycle 2- you're going to fatigue yourself.

You have to hit the bigger compound movements first, and then and only then can you move onto isolation. You're neglecting doing legs, which is the biggest body part you have. Squats, Deadlifts, Romanian Deadlifts, Leg Press, Lunges, 1 leg RDL's, Front Squats, etc etc..... all great exercises taht you should consider adding (especially squats and deadlifts) I agree with what everyone else has said so far too.

 

[Dzl2010]

I hear you on the deadlifts the exercises are interchangeable but this is a sample routine that the trainer gave me. He has a bad back so I guess that's why the lack of more squats and lack of deadlifts. I would def sub deadlifts in And take out behind the neck pull downs for the day when back is the focal point. I think doing deadlifts on every day 2 (when legs or bi's are the focal point) may be considered too much? Tweaking this program is HIGHLY recommended as this is just the principle behind the program and it relies on being able to train your body as often as possible yet still having enough rest to repair (72 hours). Keep the comments coming guys!! I wanna try this routine but again the trainer told me that tweaking the exercises to my liking is a MUST so I really need some opinions! Thanks so much guys

 

[Dzl2010]

Bump for some More good comments please!

 

[JDid23]

I hear you on the deadlifts the exercises are interchangeable but this is a sample routine that the trainer gave me. He has a bad back so I guess that's why the lack of more squats and lack of deadlifts. I would def sub deadlifts in And take out behind the neck pull downs for the day when back is the focal point. I think doing deadlifts on every day 2 (when legs or bi's are the focal point) may be considered too much? Tweaking this program is HIGHLY recommended as this is just the principle behind the program and it relies on being able to train your body as often as possible yet still having enough rest to repair (72 hours). Keep the comments coming guys!! I wanna try this routine but again the trainer told me that tweaking the exercises to my liking is a MUST so I really need some opinions! Thanks so much guys

I think that you're thinking too hard (or the trainer is). You don't need to go into the gym and have a different schedule for each given body part. I would focus on improving on certain lifts rather than doing a lot of them.

Taking into consideration everything that has been said, would you mind showing us how you would tweak the routine the trainer gave you so we can help you a bit more?

 

[Dzl2010]

I would definitely take into consideration the good replies and I'd add more squats to the routine and I would 1000000% sub in deadlifts for behind the neck pull downs since I have a bad shoulder it's better for me to stay away from those anyway. What would you think? Sorry to be so vague I just wanted some opinions from you guys to help me to decide on how to tweak this myself lol

 

[Creepusmaximus]

Overly complicated if you ask me. If that's the order you are supposed to follow than I disagree with the order completely. Always do your compound movements before the isolated ones. Example back routine, barbell rows go first. The rows work your whole back and will pump blood to the whole back so that's why you want to do them first. I don't really get how or what you will do to make the chest the focal point as opposed to tri's than the next time around make the tri's the focal point?? I would also do tri's right after chest since you use your tri's in your chest routine. BTW if you have a shoulder problem I would do dumbbell bench presses etc since using a barbell puts a lot of stress on your shoulders or you want to do something to fatigue your chest before heavy lifts so your pecs fail before your shoulders.

 

[ceo]

what one person says is the best for them may not be the best for you. Best thing is to keep it simple. Would help to know more about you, your stats, body type, time training, etc., etc.

 

[Discreet User]

Hypertrophy-Specific Training : : Official Home of HST

Click the above link.

The HST website contains everything you need to know regarding how to structure your workouts.

No guesswork required.

Put over 30 quality pounds on my "hard-gainer" body when no other program could, naturally without any AAS.

I have applied the principles of HST training to many of my personal training clients and it really does work consistently.

People will bad mouth it because it is so far from the norm, but it does work well.

 

[Dzl2010]

Thanks everyone again for the great replies. As for the order of the exercises that doesn't matter my buddy told me that it was interchangable, the whole theory behind this program is that muscles recover after 72 hours so this would be an optimal routine being that you can train very often and still have the ability to repair.

As for the "focal point" thing I'm going to be honest I didn't like the idea of doing tris before chest but he had told me that it gives every body part the chance to be worked out first, so that more energy would be available for heavy lifting.

As for HST I've always wanted to try it, is it really that good? I've read mixed posts on here about HST. Also I don't quite understand a bunch of things about HST maybe the gentleman that posted about HST can clarify a few things? I'll PM you if that's ok?

My stats are 215lb 6ft even. I've been training for 11 years, I'm 25 and I am going on my 5th cycle. I took one year off due to a shoulder injury that is almost fully recovered. I hope this helps so that I can get some more good comments on this routine! Thanks again guys I really appreciate it. I wanted to get some
good opinions before trying this routine. The trainer that told me about this is jacked but then again like someone else said, some
routines work for some but not for others.

 

[Discreet User]

As for HST I've always wanted to try it, is it really that good? I've read mixed posts on here about HST. Also I don't quite understand a bunch of things about HST maybe the gentleman that posted about HST can clarify a few things? I'll PM you if that's ok?

PM me and I'll be happy to talk more with you about HST training.

You will definitely get mixed reviews about HST.

 

[ceo]

Well then, with 11 yrs of training and 5 cycles under your belt...you MAY be ready for DC training. DC>>>>>>>HST.

Go to intensemuscle.com and read all the stickies in the DOGG Pound forum about 5 times each. Then come back and tell me how you understand the program and I will correct your misunderstandings.

Have fun!

 

[Discreet User]

Well then, with 11 yrs of training and 5 cycles under your belt...you MAY be ready for DC training. DC>>>>>>>HST.

Go to intensemuscle.com and read all the stickies in the DOGG Pound forum about 5 times each. Then come back and tell me how you understand the program and I will correct your misunderstandings.

Have fun!

I just read about DC training and it is quite similar to HST.

The bottom line is that different training styles will work for different people.

I am still a "natural" so I can't speak on how gear changes recovery time etc...

I have found in my work as a trainer, and through personal experience that HST works not only because the scientific principles are sound; but also because it teaches you to adhere to a strict program in which you are constantly challenging yourself in a way that is easy to understand.

What is interesting about DC and HST is that they truly depart from the old-school training norms.

Whatever new program you try, I recommend you give it at least 8 weeks, so that you have a chance to truly gauge it's effectiveness.

 

[ceo]

For sure share some of the same principles (higher frequency, lower volume, progressive load, etc.), but the way the two get it done are pretty different. DC is a better program for hypertrophy.

 

[mohdgame]

I think we should abandon conventional training methods when he have scientific based ones such as HST and DC. Conventional methods maybe effective. But scientific based ones are MORE effective.

 

[Discreet User]

I think we should abandon conventional training methods when he have scientific based ones such as HST and DC. Conventional methods maybe effective. But scientific based ones are MORE effective.

I agree.

Be careful saying that though, you are likely to get flamed

 

[Dzl2010]

thanks for the good replies guys, I looked into doggcrapp's stuff a while back..so you guys feel like DC's training method is more effective than HST for hypertrophy? Lets get some experiences from you bro's on what worked for YOU! Thanks again guys!!

 

[ceo]

for me DC>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>HST. I didn't grow on HST. I grew well with DC.

 

[Discreet User]

thanks for the good replies guys, I looked into doggcrapp's stuff a while back..so you guys feel like DC's training method is more effective than HST for hypertrophy? Lets get some experiences from you bro's on what worked for YOU! Thanks again guys!!

I'm 5'07"
Started out extremely skinny at 128lb. Trained with Arnold Schwarzenegger type routines and gained 15 pounds over one year.

Switched to HST training in July of 2008 and eventually reached my maximum weight of 170lb.

Now I maintain 160lb looking good with only 10% body fat.

I've never done any AAS. I'm getting ready for my first cycle (testosterone only) and am looking forward to continuing with HST training on-cycle

 

[burnthiscorpse]

WOW! Always heard of DC but never read it or payed attention to it. Just got done reading it. Holy crap it makes sense! I am incorperating the extreme stretching starting this afternoon. I am coming back after a 6 month layoff (been back few days) so I'm not going to go balls out with DC for a while. But I am going to make the first 4 sets of each movement warm up then one work set DC style. With chest, back, bi/tri for now. Cant wait.

 

[ceo]

WOW! Always heard of DC but never read it or payed attention to it. Just got done reading it. Holy crap it makes sense! I am incorperating the extreme stretching starting this afternoon. I am coming back after a 6 month layoff (been back few days) so I'm not going to go balls out with DC for a while. But I am going to make the first 4 sets of each movement warm up then one work set DC style. With chest, back, bi/tri for now. Cant wait.

Lot of big boys over there doing DC. Dusty Hanshaw just won the SHW class at the Jr Nats (just missed the overall, but the guy that won (Matt Lowden) that had slightly better conditioning, though Dusty had way more mass). He won the Border States SHW and Overall at 242 in 2008 after training with Dante for about a year. At Jr. Nats this past weekend he was 262 at weighins and probably 267 on stage at 5'11" -- in his 3rd competition ever. He hired Chris Aceto to prep him for the Jr Nats and the USA's coming up. Chris Aceto? Working with an amateur??

Dusty at Jr Nats:

Keep reading up on DC. Sometimes it takes a while to set in, especially if you've been training with a more typical BB style split for several years. It works well with a high protein, moderate to low carbs (depending on what you need mostly) and moderate (good) fat diet.

 

[joe d]

I hear you on the deadlifts the exercises are interchangeable but this is a sample routine that the trainer gave me. He has a bad back so I guess that's why the lack of more squats and lack of deadlifts. I would def sub deadlifts in And take out behind the neck pull downs for the day when back is the focal point. I think doing deadlifts on every day 2 (when legs or bi's are the focal point) may be considered too much? Tweaking this program is HIGHLY recommended as this is just the principle behind the program and it relies on being able to train your body as often as possible yet still having enough rest to repair (72 hours). Keep the comments coming guys!! I wanna try this routine but again the trainer told me that tweaking the exercises to my liking is a MUST so I really need some opinions! Thanks so much guys

that trainer is a phony. he knows shit about training people. im sorry if this comes as an insult in any way.

what are your actual goals. bbing, strong man, pl, just be strong and look good?

 

[burnthiscorpse]

Lot of big boys over there doing DC. Dusty Hanshaw just won the SHW class at the Jr Nats (just missed the overall, but the guy that won (Matt Lowden) that had slightly better conditioning, though Dusty had way more mass). He won the Border States SHW and Overall at 242 in 2008 after training with Dante for about a year. At Jr. Nats this past weekend he was 262 at weighins and probably 267 on stage at 5'11" -- in his 3rd competition ever. He hired Chris Aceto to prep him for the Jr Nats and the USA's coming up. Chris Aceto? Working with an amateur??

Dusty at Jr Nats:

Keep reading up on DC. Sometimes it takes a while to set in, especially if you've been training with a more typical BB style split for several years. It works well with a high protein, moderate to low carbs (depending on what you need mostly) and moderate (good) fat diet.

Yeah I'm gonna give it a go in a couple months full on I think. Im just finishing week one now after a 6 month layoff right now though. Seriously need to cut. Once I lower the BF% considerably then I will up the cals and work my way into more of a DC routine. I am definatley incorperating the extreme stretching starting yesterday actually. But I'm gonna keep it more of a modified traditional split for 8 weeks or so. I gotta get through this first 2-3 weeks of ungodly pwo soreness. God I hate comeing back after layoffs. Plus I need a few deep tissue and accupuncture sessions in the next two weeks to loosen up a tight right shoulder and under arm rotators ect....

 

[Dzl2010]

that trainer is a phony. he knows shit about training people. im sorry if this comes as an insult in any way.

what are your actual goals. bbing, strong man, pl, just be strong and look good?

No offense taken in any way, I actually appreciate your input a lot. My goals are more bodybuilding than anything. I wanted to compete a while back but between hurting myself and not wanting to take so much sauce (that previous trainer's suggested that I take) I kind of gave up on that idea. I want to look good and be strong but my body type is just made to be bigger so I want to take advantage of it as most guys would love to be able to gain muscle and be bigger (but I, unfortunately have the trouble of losing the weight after bulking..ahh the double edged sword lol).

I'm really tossing up either the idea of DC or HST but I don't quite know which one to go with.....

 

[Dzl2010]

I just read an article on Max OT vs. HST vs. HIT vs. DC vs. Westside vs. GVT vs. PRRS and it looks like not a lot of people are liking HST but I don't understand why because it seems very sound. I'm going to continue researching to figure which would be best for me to put on as much size as possible since that is my goal right now (bodybuilding not any kind of power or strong man stuff)

 

[Dzl2010]

Alright fellas I just saw my buddy that told me about this program and he continues to swear by it saying it works wonders. No disrespect to anyone in here that commented but just out of curiosity what do you good bros find wrong about this routine? Is it the lack of certain key lifts? Or do you guys feel like the principle behind it is wrong (overtraining?) please help guys bc I want to have some ammo to have a knowledgable discussion with him to figure out this program. Thanks so much in advance!

 

[ceo]

if it works for him that's great. Doesn't mean it will work for everyone. If the "2 sets" of everything are actually working sets and not counting warmups (which I assume they are) then for me, it is WAY WAAAAAY too much fucking volume. How long are his workouts? 2-3 hours? No thanks. At that amount of volume, intensity will have to be lowered. That's not how I care to train. Others are high volume trainers. Personally, I consider high volume, Bodybuilding OCD. The thinking that, "I must do 4 sets of flat bench, incline bench, decline bench, flat db flies, standing cable flies, and 100 pushups...or I won't grow!" Sounds completely obsessive to me. It's too much.

I do a 2 way split, but I don't go in two days in a row. I will go in every M W F and do workout A, then workout B, then A, B, A, B. Keep it simple. I lift very heavy weight (high intensity) and low volume, with higher frequency.

You seem to be interested in his workout, so go do it. Give it 12 weeks or so and see if it works for you. It will also shut him the fuck up. Or, do what you want to and tell him he can workout his way and you will workout your way. If he still keeps bugging you tell him to STFU!

 

[Discreet User]

if it works for him that's great. Doesn't mean it will work for everyone. If the "2 sets" of everything are actually working sets and not counting warmups (which I assume they are) then for me, it is WAY WAAAAAY too much fucking volume. How long are his workouts? 2-3 hours? No thanks. At that amount of volume, intensity will have to be lowered. That's not how I care to train. Others are high volume trainers. Personally, I consider high volume, Bodybuilding OCD. The thinking that, "I must do 4 sets of flat bench, incline bench, decline bench, flat db flies, standing cable flies, and 100 pushups...or I won't grow!" Sounds completely obsessive to me. It's too much.

I do a 2 way split, but I don't go in two days in a row. I will go in every M W F and do workout A, then workout B, then A, B, A, B. Keep it simple. I lift very heavy weight (high intensity) and low volume, with higher frequency.

You seem to be interested in his workout, so go do it. Give it 12 weeks or so and see if it works for you. It will also shut him the fuck up. Or, do what you want to and tell him he can workout his way and you will workout your way. If he still keeps bugging you tell him to STFU!

^ Good answer.