Thyroid dangers in reality? -- EVERYONE VOTES

[gjohnson5]

honestly, i had a big disscusiion about this, it was either on here or anabolicreview, and i really dont want to get into it again... do a search

That's ok , something tells me I would be wasting my time ...
Anyway good information is welcome and trying not to drgrade the thread.

 

[jpl26]

if you think the only risks of taking thyroid are catabolism and ramping down, you have alot to learn

Actually, not really. And there is no need to patronize.

The small little post was meant as a general guideline for a healthy adult.

I can go into cardiac problems associated with T3 if you want, or bone loss associated with T3, but those are cases where the person WAS NOT in a healthy state to begin with.

But, by all means......educate me.

 

[shortstack]

Actually, not really. And there is no need to patronize.

The small little post was meant as a general guideline for a healthy adult.

I can go into cardiac problems associated with T3 if you want, or bone loss associated with T3, but those are cases where the person WAS NOT in a healthy state to begin with.

But, by all means......educate me.

why do people always want the easy way to answers. just do some reaserch buddy.
your statment is very un-educated.... first of all, a healthy person,can still have a thyroid disorder or disease, this beng why there are ove a MILLION un-diagnosed cases in the US. so basically if someone where to be un-educated and have say.....graves disease (a disease were you have to much thyroid) and say to themselves oh well im pretty healthy im gonna take some t3. you know what could happen...... actually alot of things, maybe and most likeley a "thyroid storm" in which it has a fatality rating of around close to 100%. but no you have all the answers so go ahead buddy, take your thyroid cause you think your healthy, but do me a favor, dont imply that to people that they can take t3 if they think there healthy.

 

[poantrex]

Actually, not really. And there is no need to patronize.

The small little post was meant as a general guideline for a healthy adult.

I can go into cardiac problems associated with T3 if you want, or bone loss associated with T3, but those are cases where the person WAS NOT in a healthy state to begin with.

But, by all means......educate me.

What? You're absolutely wrong about thyroid hormones not causing weaker bones. Its a WELL documented side effect of thyroxine and triiodothyronine.

In addition, thyroid hormones cause massive hyperglycemia (my glucose is always 20ng/dl higher when taking them) and can cause cardiac problems and high BP in some people.

Bone loss and hyperglycemia concern me the most....hyperglycemia produces a HOST of unwanted effects which can lead to (among other things) insulin resistance and diabetes.

 

[gjohnson5]

why do people always want the easy way to answers. just do some reaserch buddy.
your statment is very un-educated.... first of all, a healthy person,can still have a thyroid disorder or disease, this beng why there are ove a MILLION un-diagnosed cases in the US. so basically if someone where to be un-educated and have say.....graves disease (a disease were you have to much thyroid) and say to themselves oh well im pretty healthy im gonna take some t3. you know what could happen...... actually alot of things, maybe and most likeley a "thyroid storm" in which it has a fatality rating of around close to 100%. but no you have all the answers so go ahead buddy, take your thyroid cause you think your healthy, but do me a favor, dont imply that to people that they can take t3 if they think there healthy.

I'm curious about this graves disease issue. You have read or know of people who have gotten graves disease from taking synthetic T3?

 

[shortstack]

I'm curious about this graves disease issue. You have read or know of people who have gotten graves disease from taking synthetic T3?

no, you got it wrong, graves disease, is one of many thyroid disorders that can be un-diagnosed or un-noticed. if you have this and you take to much t3 you will defintly fk yourself.

 

[jpl26]

why do people always want the easy way to answers. just do some reaserch buddy.
your statment is very un-educated.... first of all, a healthy person,can still have a thyroid disorder or disease, this beng why there are ove a MILLION un-diagnosed cases in the US. so basically if someone where to be un-educated and have say.....graves disease (a disease were you have to much thyroid) and say to themselves oh well im pretty healthy im gonna take some t3. you know what could happen...... actually alot of things, maybe and most likeley a "thyroid storm" in which it has a fatality rating of around close to 100%. but no you have all the answers so go ahead buddy, take your thyroid cause you think your healthy, but do me a favor, dont imply that to people that they can take t3 if they think there healthy.

When you make too much thyroid = hyperthyroidism. Easily countered with beta-blockers such as propanolol, which is what people who have abnormal(high) thyroid production normally take.

And if you're going to try to prove something, at least use some science. Not your opinions, which are baseless.

And Graves Disease? Never ceases to make me wonder how people always single out cases that are so specific to be completely nonsensical to the gist of the thread. Graves disease has a completely different mode of action.

A brief little explanation:

1. Thyroid disease in anormal person? Sure....if you have ZERO iodine in y
your diet. And don't get any from supplements.

Do you even know how the thyroid works?

Only 20% of the circulating T3 in your blood plasma is from endogeneous production. The rest(80%) comes, from the conversion of T4 to T3 via the de-iodinase enzyme(iodine based). This enzyme basically cleaves of an iodine molecule from T4 to make it into T3.

So, if you don't take iodine in any shape or form T4 to T3 conversion is reduced, and you end up with less T3 circulating in your blood plasma.

2. ESS Syndrome. Very common in athletes. Their natural T4 to T3 conversion does not happen efficiently. The problem (due to a whole host of factors), is that the T4 gets converted to rT3 (reverse T3). rT3 is the optical isomer of T3, and is metabolically inactive, therefore, your plasma T3 levels will be low again.

3. Graves disease is not a problem with the thyroid itself. It's a problem with the persons TSH, which is very high. Therefore, it indirectly stimulates the production of too many thyroid hormones. So again, your statement has no basis.

You're welcome to try to debate this with me, but don't ever tell me I haven't done my research...because that is ridiculous.

And lol@thyroid storm...sure, if you took 600mcg in one go.

And near 100% fatality? That number is complete and utter BS. No offense. As I stated before Beta-blockers reduce thyroid hormone production significantly. Run a search for propanolol and it's uses. It's the most common drug in treating thyro-toxicosis in patients with hyperthyroidism.

And btw, as T3 increases your metabolism, it also lowers your total cholesterol. Which again is beneficial.

Gist of my post: T3 has many, many uses in our pharmaceutical arsenal, but just because you don't understand it's mechanisms, doesn't mean you have to have to be afraid of it, and make other people afraid of it.

 

[jpl26]

[Quote/]

Don't you think you 1 and 2 are a far fetched. The automatic presence of T3 causes someone to go catabolic?? That would mean that we are all catabolic due to thyroid's natural production.

At homeostasis, when your body is in equlibrium, protein turnover = protein degradation. Your body synthesis protein from the AA's you eat btw.

Children grow and get bigger magically without any AAS or increased diet even though children have raging hormones. Definitly some generalizations in those 2 items.

No generalizations whatsoever. and what makes children grow isn't T3, it's their VERY HIGH levels of GH. If you look at a GH vs time(in years) graph,
GH levels are amazingly high at 1-3 years old, before reaching a maximum at 18-21, and then levelling off steadily downwards as we get older.
A 20 year old has twice the levels of GH as a 40 year old. Put it that way.

We need need to take into account
1. The person's natural T3 count

Not necessary. Once you start a T3 cycle, your endogeneous production of T3 is basically zero. The only reason I can fathom for knowing your natural T3 levels, is to compare them to post-T3 cycle level ones.

2. The dosage they are taking

Agreed. High T3 intake = A need for more androgenic steroids.
Low T3 intake = you can use milder steroids.

3. The person's diet
Can't argue with that one. You got to get your protein intake in the 1.5-2.0g/lb range(of your bodyweight), to off-set the exogeneous T3's catabolic effects, and reap it's fat burning rewards. But again, this is very much dose-dependent.

From my understanding of the subject (which is limitied I will say)
1. amino acids (They don't do much at all)
2. glutamine peptides (I agree.)
3. insulin / IGF-1 / GH (I agree. But very dangerous for beginners..because of the insulin)

4. http://www.nutriline.org/methoxy.htm

I didn't know methoxy increased protein synthesis but the link seems to say that it does. But there are other chemicals that increase protein sythesis besides AAS , this is for sure.
Methoxy-Flavone is a known bad supplement. Never get your information from any type of web source. Get it from peer reviewed journals.

I have read alot about this T3 / catabolism issue and want to learn more in terms of dosages of T3 and results.[/Quote]

 

[jpl26]

Agreed! There are far too many people that think they can run this shit without repercussions! And most of these people don't get bloodtests to see where they stand after doing the shit. I can almost guarantee most people will have a higher TSH baseline after doing a high dosed cycle of T3, whether they ramp up and down slowly or not. And you won't feel signifigant side effects of having a higher TSH, either.

Thats a problem, and the other problem is that most docs will find their thyroid in the "normal" range and declare that their thyroid is fine...Uhm, normal healthy range for TSH is between 1 -2, 3 and above is the range where most of those 60 and older fall! Definitely not ideal. I've seen a lot of posts from people that have haad their bloodwork done after doing cytomel, and their TSH was above 3....which is not good, at all.

I have no idea where you get your information, but the clinical spectrum for TSH and T3 is:

Normal TSH: (0.4 uIU/ml - 5.5 uI/ml)
Normal T3(total): Between 60 -181 ng/dl

They are both directly related in most cases. Low TSH = Low T3, as the thyroid is not stimulated enough. In cases where you self-administer T3, endogenous T3 and T4 production drops to zero, and your TSH to about 0.1 or 0.2.

How do i now this? I take blood tests. Which most people don't.

After cessation of my T3 cycles, without the 2 week endogeneous T3 cycle booster cycle included, my normal total T3 and TSH are 80ng/dl, and 1.1 uIU/ml respectively.

Knowing how your body works is step 1 to becoming a better bodybuilder/athlete. And if you don't get blood tests done, I don't think you should be using AAS. Blood tests are probably the most overlooked component of any AAS/T3 etc.. cycle.

 

[jpl26]

What? You're absolutely wrong about thyroid hormones not causing weaker bones. Its a WELL documented side effect of thyroxine and triiodothyronine.

In addition, thyroid hormones cause massive hyperglycemia (my glucose is always 20ng/dl higher when taking them) and can cause cardiac problems and high BP in some people.

Bone loss and hyperglycemia concern me the most....hyperglycemia produces a HOST of unwanted effects which can lead to (among other things) insulin resistance and diabetes.

I have my own glucose tester. And it doesn't measure in ng/dl. It measures blood glucose in mg/dl...so I'll assume that's a typo on your part.

T3 causes insulin resistance directly? Ok...that's a new one. No. T3 actually increases Beta-adrenergic function, i.e. the beta adrenoreceptors, Beta 1,2,3. These in turn release FFA's from the WAT's to be burned for fuel for bodily functions, instead of burning the existing blood glucose for fuel. Therefore blood glucose levels increase. This is you hyperglycaemia/insulin resistance...and is exactly what happens when you use GH as well. Solution. Use R-ALA to overcome it. Simple and effective. Your "problems" all have solutions if you apply yourself to the problem at hand.

Diabetes? Type I impossible. Obviously. Type II? I have seen ZERO literature to that effect. Hypothetically, if you where obese it could happen.

The only thing I agree with is the bone mineral de-calcificacion loss. But guess what? AAS increase bone mineral deposition. So, there goes that problem as well.

You guys are way too alarmist. I find it amusing that people find T3 very dangerous, and insulin a walk-in-the-park. Vice-versa if you ask me.
I wouldn't touch insulin with a 50 foot pole.

The cardiac/BP problem is the ony real concern I agree with. And only in those people who are genetically predisposed to high BP, or those who are taking an entire shelf of AAS, or lastly, have some type of cardiac defect. Arrythmia for example.

High BP can be counter-acted by 10g L-Taurine/day VERY effectively. Just ask around, and you'll see. I have seen dystolic drops of 20 points when on AAS due to L-Taurine. 120/80 120 = Dystolic 80 = systolic.

Obviously, if you have an existing cardiac problem, T3 is just not for you. that is a given.