The Tonight Show ( Jay Leno) fired the writers that were striking and now

[mrplunkey]

how ironic that u r accusing me of communist ideas, plunket....if we all follow your advice and destroy the middle class creating and promoting union members then all this country will have is the super-rich manufacturing owners/ruling class and the rest of us poor people who will be suffering ant at their mercy.

Hmm... you're getting closer to my point.

We are becoming a two-class system. We'll have the super-rich and the super-poor because there will be no middle class. The jobs people would need to be middle class simply won't be here. So instead of someone getting a decent job then seeking-out opportunities for advancement, they'll be sitting-around collecting government checks from an ever-expanding welfare program.

We are in a global economy now and unless we take drastic measures to attract manufacturing back here we are doomed. And we need more than just outlawing unions. We also need to slash taxes, reform the tort system, revamp education, eliminate red-tape and re-think what it takes to make America an attractive manufacturer again. It should have been done 30-40 years ago, but better late than never.

Peace out!

 

[rnch]

plumpet, you need to doosh out your brain.

 

[mrplunkey]

plumpet, you need to doosh out your brain.

Yup, that's about the level of sophistication I'd expect in a debate from someone taking positions like yours.

 

[redsamurai]

plumpet, you need to doosh out your brain.

I got your hookup right here boss................

"Remove user from ignore listmrplunkey
This message is hidden because mrplunkey is on your ignore list."



trust me, you'll feel better once you make the change. He's like Herpes...........and your ignore list is like Valtrex......it reduces the risk of plunkey outbreaking and spreading.

 

[domoljub]

Do you realize how ridiculous this unsupported, unprovable statement is?

Rnch, if you and dololjub can maintain something so arbitrary, I guess you two also need to concede that if it weren't for Bush's war on terror that Bin Laden would have taken over the entire world by now and enslaved us all into an Islamic state. So I guess you owe George your entire life and livelihood -- Grats.

That kind of "you owe everything to us because if it weren't for us bad things would have happened" is crap at its finest.

As a matter of fact... let me throw one out there. CEO wages have outpaced the ordinary worker's wages considerably over the past 20-40 years. I maintain that the reason they have escalated at a faster pace is because CEO's don't have unions. Now, since I've thrown this "fact" out there like dolojub did above, I guess it must be true as well. So I guess unions have cost ordinary workers a fortune in missed wage opportunities.

sorry, i should have stated the working class. wtf is the bin laden rant about?

 

[EnderJE]

Hmm... you're getting closer to my point.

We are becoming a two-class system. We'll have the super-rich and the super-poor because there will be no middle class. The jobs people would need to be middle class simply won't be here. So instead of someone getting a decent job then seeking-out opportunities for advancement, they'll be sitting-around collecting government checks from an ever-expanding welfare program.

We are in a global economy now and unless we take drastic measures to attract manufacturing back here we are doomed. And we need more than just outlawing unions. We also need to slash taxes, reform the tort system, revamp education, eliminate red-tape and re-think what it takes to make America an attractive manufacturer again. It should have been done 30-40 years ago, but better late than never.

Peace out!

I would of thought that following the second paragraph would indicate that we should make America like a third world country with the same labour laws and protections for the people. That way, manufacturing can choose to work closer. I don't quite see how else they can complete.

OR, we could have China kill a few more people becuase their laws and regulations are quite policed as those in North America. It may sound bad, but I found it funny at all the disgust over the lax laws in the Far East. Being a former buyer and touring factories over there, I couldn't help but think...what did you think would happen?

I think that the end we need some happy balance between government control and multinational control. I'm purposely not using the term 'free market' because I don't believe that we truly have a free market as a few players have gotten to big (oligarphy <sp>) and the cost to start up is astounding.

 

[redsamurai]

you're right, we're not a free market.....yet people have been buying that fantasy for years. And you're also right, that there is no way to attract manufacturing jobs to the U.S without destroying the minimum wage regs and letting companies pay employees pennies..........because thats what they can pay overseas. People just don't understand that human greed will eventually destroy everything. There's a finite limit to how many people can be exploited. Eventually there's no one left to exploit. Nike could make money hand over foot and still manufacturer all their shoes here.........but they don't because they can make that much more money by making shoes overseas for pennies and turning them around for approx $100-$150. There's almost no use fighting it nor debating it.........it's human nature. The best you can hope for is to acknowledge that we're all self serving pieces of shit and hope that counts for something when we all stand on judgement day........who knows. But I don't care anymore. I honestly could give a shit anymore what happens to this country or what happens anywhere in the world.

I would of thought that following the second paragraph would indicate that we should make America like a third world country with the same labour laws and protections for the people. That way, manufacturing can choose to work closer. I don't quite see how else they can complete.

OR, we could have China kill a few more people becuase their laws and regulations are quite policed as those in North America. It may sound bad, but I found it funny at all the disgust over the lax laws in the Far East. Being a former buyer and touring factories over there, I couldn't help but think...what did you think would happen?

I think that the end we need some happy balance between government control and multinational control. I'm purposely not using the term 'free market' because I don't believe that we truly have a free market as a few players have gotten to big (oligarphy <sp>) and the cost to start up is astounding.

 

[mrplunkey]

I would of thought that following the second paragraph would indicate that we should make America like a third world country with the same labour laws and protections for the people. That way, manufacturing can choose to work closer. I don't quite see how else they can complete.

OR, we could have China kill a few more people becuase their laws and regulations are quite policed as those in North America. It may sound bad, but I found it funny at all the disgust over the lax laws in the Far East. Being a former buyer and touring factories over there, I couldn't help but think...what did you think would happen?

I think that the end we need some happy balance between government control and multinational control. I'm purposely not using the term 'free market' because I don't believe that we truly have a free market as a few players have gotten to big (oligarphy <sp>) and the cost to start up is astounding.

But I'm certainly not advocating we make America a third-world country -- we're headed that way now and I think we should take dramatic measures to stop it.

Here's an example -- You will NEVER be able to compete with China on wages. So don't compete on wages. Let's compete on productivity instead. Oh, wait... we can't because we have union featherbedding that requires three paid apprentices and four do-nothing positions associated with each small group of workers.

There are clear advantages of manufacturing in the US for US-based companies -- easier communication, faster turn-around time on changes, shorter supply chains, minimal cultural differences, no language barrier (except New Orleans, obviously), etc. etc. So we don't have be beat China across the board. What kills us is a vicious combination of union waste and expense, out-of-control lawsuits, skyrocketing benefits, confiscatory taxation rates, ridiculous red tape... ad nausium.

Here's what no politician will tell you: The old, mid-50's post World War II business model for the US is broken. It doesn't work anymore and won't work anymore. And just like any other business, you can either slip into denial and argue over minute changes as you sink into oblivion or you can accept the reality in front of you and make sweeping changes to re-invent yourself. And the hell of it is, we're going to have to re-invent ourselves regardless -- either after the complete collapse of our economy and society or before it happens. I personally would like to see it happen beforehand.

I'm sure in the last days of the last buggy-whip factory they were having heated debates over whether the horse would respond better to a 3-tail flail or a 5-tail flail as well.

 

[mrplunkey]

I got your hookup right here boss................

"Remove user from ignore listmrplunkey
This message is hidden because mrplunkey is on your ignore list."



trust me, you'll feel better once you make the change. He's like Herpes...........and your ignore list is like Valtrex......it reduces the risk of plunkey outbreaking and spreading.

That is an excellent approach to anyone who gets tired of losing unsustainable arguments.

Oh wait, let me format it so red could read it.

That.... is..... an excellent..... approach to anyone..... who gets tired..... of losing..... unsustainable..... arguments.....

All better!

 

[mrplunkey]

But I don't care anymore. I honestly could give a shit anymore what happens to this country or what happens anywhere in the world.

Now there's a positive, can-do attitude!

I just wish the defeatists who've already given-up would get out of the way of the people who think we can fix this mess.