The Synpax Diet (in development - please help - Karma opportunity)

[Synpax]

First, anyone who can contribute positivly will get some k. I know a lot of folks put effort into answering stuff and don't get recognized but I'm not one of those people.
----

The premise of the Synpax diet is simplicity and economy. IE - there is no concern for taste or variety. It is a diet that uses a few simple components - sometimes more of a type, sometimes less.

The current components are:
- rolled oats -
http://www.quakeroatmeal.com/Products/SQO/SQO-QuickOats.cfm

- Optimum Nutrition Pro Complex ($35 for 4.4 lbs) - http://www.keysupplements.com/nutrition.asp?ID=553

- Fish Oil Pills - 1g of fat, 10 calories

- Water

Supplements include:
- L-Glutamine
- Creatine
- Thermorexin
- melatonin

I am anticipating a bulking phase to build muscle and anticipate going on my first AS cycle soon. My current stats are:
Age: 25
Weight: 165
BF: 7%
Cardio: Almost every morning
Weights: 3 of every 4 days in the afternoon

I am basing my nutritional needs on a diet of 3100 calories.
---

What should I add? Is there a problem with eating like this? Ar etehre less expensive alternatives?

Thanks.

 

[Synpax]

followup:

I eat the oats raw. I have been eating them like this for a few days now. I fill a cup with about 160g of them and sit at my desk with the oats in front of me and a half gallon jug of water on the side.

 

[pushnpull]

Where is the fat? You're gonna have to eat alot of those fish pills to get the ammount your looking for, and that will be costly. I can recommend you get a bottle of flax oil or hemp oil to put into the shakes or oatmeal.

Well, oatmeal is great ... and a good low Gi source of carbs.

Another problem with this would be that the protein powder you are looking at is pretty much "whey only" and will obsorb in about 1.5 to 2 hours so you relaly would have to have a shake every 1.5 hours to maintain a steady stream of protien. You may want to look for a better protein blend that is part egg protein or casein for longer lasting protien. You can make up your own mix at proteinfactory.com and it will cost you about 5-7 dollars a pound. try like a 40% whey / 40 % egg / 20% calcium caseinate mix.

and remember the simple sugars in your post-workout shakes, no oatmeal post workout.

hope my little knowledge helps.

 

[Mr.X]

First, anyone who can contribute positivly will get some k. I know a lot of folks put effort into answering stuff and don't get recognized but I'm not one of those people.
----

The premise of the Synpax diet is simplicity and economy. IE - there is no concern for taste or variety. It is a diet that uses a few simple components - sometimes more of a type, sometimes less.

The current components are:
- rolled oats -
http://www.quakeroatmeal.com/Products/SQO/SQO-QuickOats.cfm

- Optimum Nutrition Pro Complex ($35 for 4.4 lbs) - http://www.keysupplements.com/nutrition.asp?ID=553

- Fish Oil Pills - 1g of fat, 10 calories

- Water

Supplements include:
- L-Glutamine
- Creatine
- Thermorexin
- melatonin

I am anticipating a bulking phase to build muscle and anticipate going on my first AS cycle soon. My current stats are:
Age: 25
Weight: 165
BF: 7%
Cardio: Almost every morning
Weights: 3 of every 4 days in the afternoon

I am basing my nutritional needs on a diet of 3100 calories.
---

What should I add? Is there a problem with eating like this? Ar etehre less expensive alternatives?

Thanks.

You're missing a lot of things, but that's besides the point. The diet is fairly vague at BEST. Lay me out a diet plan that you feel is right for you - your creation so to speak- and I'll edit it for you (if need be) to provide you with optimal feedback.

I can get you started on the ratios:

BULKING:

Training Days:
Weight x 18
40%protein/40%carbs/20%fat

Cal: 2970
Protein: 297 g
Carbs: 297 g
Fat: 70 g

NON-training days:
weight x 15
50% protein/20%carbs/30%fat

Cal: 2475
protein: 248 g
carbs: 125 g
fat: 85 g

Mr.X

 

[juve]

'What should I add? Is there a problem with eating like this? Ar etehre less expensive alternatives?'

I'm baffled. Eating like what? Alternatives to what? Sorry mate, but I don't see any plan/diet at all, just haphazard statements. It might be helpful if you first expound on your diet, sort of lay it out, then we could contribute. Otherwise, do you just plan on eating oats and Pro complex all day, every day?


pushnpull gives very sound advice as far as protein supplement goes: try proteinfactory.com or proteincustomizer.com and get yourself some hydrlized/isolate whey combo to use post workout for fast absorption and delivery. For night time you could opt for micellar/egg combo with fish/olive oils + some psyllium husk or simply eat a steak and cheese (fat+protein to promote test synthesis and not to blunt GH secretion through action of insulin).

come up with a plan, and we'll help ya..

 

[Babyfaced Assassin]

erm i'll just add my ten tips i kcut and paste on various forums lol

maybe you can get something out of it

1. Eat between 1.5-2g of protein per Lbs of lean body weight

2. Eat smaller, frequent meals throughout the day as opposed to 2 or 3 larger meals. Your body will handley protein synthsesis better this way, manage insulin and blood sugar levels and remain in positive nitrogen balance if you get protein at each meal.

3. Eat Quality Protein sources at each meal

4. Eat only Non processed, unrefined, Low Glycemic Carbohydrates when you can, on a regular basis except of course after training when an Insulin spike is desired. At this point the Higher the GI the better (Glucose or Dextrose/Maltodextrin blend works best

5. Try to eat about 5 Grams of Fiber per meal (Except Post Workout)

6. Don't forget your fats, Make sure you get your dose of EFAs from Flax Oil, Fish Oils, Nuts, Oily Fish or Olive Oils

7. Drink about 4-6litres of Fresh Water per day

8. Avoid Fried Foods and foods containiing Hydrogenated Vegetable oils. These are both nonos on any diet

9. Eat At Least 25% of your Calories From Fat, No more than 50% in Carbs and the rest in Protien

10. Enjoy your food, Eat to live not Live to Eat

 

[Synpax]

Hi,

First, thanks for all the 1st class comments. I'll attempt to clearify/answer questions.

Pushnpull - you are right, it may be difficult to wring enough fat out of fish oil pills. The oatmeal has some, too. I will look into getting a bottle of oil -but can't I buy a bottle of fish oil?

Pushnpull - Procomplex says it is a mix of eg and whey protiens. Is this incorrect? The suggestion of proteinfactory sounds good. I will look into it. The price sounds good too. I payed 35+shipping for 4.4 lbs of pro-complex.

MrX - I'd really like to have a simple diet that involves eating the same, inexpensive, easy to make things every day. I think the protien best comes from a powder, the carbs (and fiber) best come from oats, and the fat best come from oats and fish.

Mr X - below I spec out how much of each thing I woul dneed to hit your training day/non training day (I do weights 3 days on, one day off, but go running most mornings, 3-10 miles at between a 6 minute and 9 minute pace). I busted out Excel and did some math to match your prescription (I presume each gram of fat to have 10 calories):

Training Days: 2971 calories, 40% carbs and protien, 20% fat by eating - 315g pro complex, 415g oatmeal, and 30 fish oil caps.

Non-training days: 2474 calories, 21% carbs, 30% fat, 50% protien from eating - 360g pro complex, 160g oats, 63 fish oil caps.

----

In reflection, the only problem I see is that there is no dextrose and that those are a lot of fish oil caps and I should investigate just getting bottled fish oil. Also, I should investigate other protien sources.

Note - the time involved with 'making a shake' is nill. I put the powder into a coffee mug and add just enough water to allow me to swallow it. I usually throw in the L-glutamine and creatine.

Additional comments/suggestion? Esp. regarding dextrose and protien sources?

 

[Mr.X]

MrX - I'd really like to have a simple diet that involves eating the same, inexpensive, easy to make things every day.

I think the protien best comes from a powder, the carbs (and fiber) best come from oats, and the fat best come from oats and fish. that's not always true, but in this case if it's convinient it would be fine

Mr X - below I spec out how much of each thing I woul dneed to hit your training day/non training day (I do weights 3 days on, one day off, but go running most mornings, 3-10 miles at between a 6 minute and 9 minute pace). I busted out Excel and did some math to match your prescription (I presume each gram of fat to have 10 calories):
1g fat=9cal
1g carbs=4 cal
1g protein = 4cal
1 ketone = 4.5 cal


Training Days: 2971 calories, 40% carbs and protien, 20% fat by eating - 315g pro complex, 415g oatmeal, and 30 fish oil caps.

Non-training days: 2474 calories, 21% carbs, 30% fat, 50% protien from eating - 360g pro complex, 160g oats, 63 fish oil caps.

----see my ratios in the other post, fairly clear - follow them

Mr.X

 

[Synpax]

Training Days: 2971 calories, 40% carbs and protien, 20% fat by eating - 315g pro complex, 415g oatmeal, and 30 fish oil caps.

Non-training days: 2474 calories, 21% carbs, 30% fat, 50% protien from eating - 360g pro complex, 160g oats, 63 fish oil caps.

----see my ratios in the other post, fairly clear - follow them

Mr.X [/B]

Right - the layout above for training days and non-training days matches. I presume I'll have to add some dextrose to the equation for post workout, but other than that I am good to go.

 

[serbyte]

What do you take before running in the morning? I would assume that such a high intensity of running would burn muscle and hinder your gains. Im assuming that with running 3-10 miles every morning you will need to bump your calories slightly to compensate for these calories burned.

If that is all you will be eating i dont believe that you will be getting enough saturated fat to keep your testosterone level up.

Deffinatly take a multivitamin, as the lack of regular food will bring a lack of vitamins.

 

[Mr.X]

Right - the layout above for training days and non-training days matches. I presume I'll have to add some dextrose to the equation for post workout, but other than that I am good to go.

Correct, add some dextrose....

Mr.X

 

[Synpax]

Ok; I'll do some more study and revise it with meal breakdowns, etc.

 

[juve]

Indeed, that's what i do - buy bottled fish oil/flax oil. Also supplement on monounsaturated acids - extra virgin olive oil (cheap as hell!)

as far as dextrose - given that's its utilized primarily to cease secretion of cortisol, it is only natural to include it after training to promote anabolism and warrant muscle wasting. I'd use around 40g's just to get the necessary effect. To replenish muscle glycogen I'd simply eat oatmeal an hour later.

As far as protein (whey) sources also look into www.allthewhey.com - they don't have combo's like pfactory and customizer but they sell very cheap Isolate - excellent post-workout food.

On a side note: why running in the AM especially on empty stomach given you're embarking on a bulking cycle. I foresee muscle loss here. If you want ward off fat, keep your diet clean; if you're after cardiovascular health then I would opt for fat+protein meal - great for endurance (gluconeogenesis).

peace!

 

[Synpax]

I have to run in the mornings because I have a pending job requirement of getting my 5k as close to 18 minutes as possible, plus a whole lot of running to come after that. I need to have a good, strong cardiovascular system and don't see that it has to mean I can't also get stronger, especially when I initialize the use of AS.

I will take your advice on gluconeogenisis - should I eat before or after I go running? In the past I've done a protien chug with some creatine about 30 mins before I hit the track.

BTW juve - I would give you karma now but I am all out.

 

[juve]

I'm and endurance athlete myself, too - cover more distance than marathoners.

You should definately consume p+f meal BEFORE cardio, an hour or so(if that's an option for you). Creatine has been shown to not increase cardio performance in clinical studies and is indeed touted as detrimental among athletes due to increased water weight. I would only take it post.. Glycerol on the other hand greatly helps with endurance - so I use that sometimes.
By the way numerous studies showed that a drink with a mix of simple+complex (in the amount of 8-12g's per 8oz drink) carbs along with electrolites (specifically, Mg and K) consumed during endurance training significantly increases endurance and overall performance.

also if you have upcoming BIG endurance events (5 miles +) opt for carbo loading..for 5k especially in 18 mins pro+fat would be optimal

'BTW juve - I would give you karma now but I am all out.'

it's all good bro..

 

[Synpax]

Version 1a_onday of the Synpax Diet.

What you see below is oatmeal with a little protein at the bottom, flax seed oil and oatmeal, and protein (Pro Complex). 2971 calories. All of tomorrow's food (plus a gallon of water):

Upcoming revisions include adding dextrose (ordered a 50lbs bag online), getting a better and less expensive protein from proteinfactory or another online reseller, and using fish oil pills as part of the protein source (5 a day or so).

 

[Mr.X]

Version 1a_onday of the Synpax Diet.

What you see below is oatmeal with a little protein at the bottom, flax seed oil and oatmeal, and protein (Pro Complex). 2971 calories. All of tomorrow's food (plus a gallon of water):

Upcoming revisions include adding dextrose (ordered a 50lbs bag online), getting a better and less expensive protein from proteinfactory or another online reseller, and using fish oil pills as part of the protein source (5 a day or so).

You're the first person that I have seen post a pic of their diet food - amazing and it looks good.

Don't worry too much about the little details, first try the diet and then we can workout the small problems that can arise - second guessing outcomes is not the way to go when we are not sure how you'll respond.

Mr.X

 

[juve]

Version 1a_onday of the Synpax Diet.

Hahaha...within the realm of simplicity resides ingenuity!!

 

[Synpax]

Ok - fatal flaw #1. I did a hard run this morning and then did a really hard workot in the gym this afternoon. Anyway I wasn't feeling well when I got back to the office and then noticed the peanuts on the receptionists desk, and it occured to me -

I AM GETTING NO SODIUM.

So... I figure I'm going to mix the salt with the oats. It's funny I forgot this becuase I recently asked a quesiton about sodium on this message board.

Also, the protein tastes terrible. Not the protein itself but the vanilla flavoring. Not as bad as the choco flavor I've had before. I'm going to order from protein factory something with no sweetener or flavoring.

 

[obiwan9962]

well i think you should add some nuts to your diet
and up you omega369 to at least 6 grams daily
and what about your protien other than protien powder?
you getting lots of fiber
but what about greenfoods????
spinach, broccoli, etccc.......
very deficient in vitamins

 

[Synpax]

Let me do this Mr. X style. My comments in bold.

well i think you should add some nuts to your diet
why?
and up you omega369 to at least 6 grams daily
what is the source of omega369? Is that only from fish pills and not flax? If so, yeah, that will be done.
and what about your protien other than protien powder?
Oats has protein - 1/6 of protein on on days comes from them. That's it.
you getting lots of fiber
85 grams on an on day
but what about greenfoods????
spinach, broccoli, etccc.......
very deficient in vitamins
The protein I take is very fortified (see the link in first post). I also take 2 megaman vitamins a day. What am I missing?

 

[dr0832]

Why is it a must to have EFA's? Also why do I have to have 20% of my diet from fat? Will I gain no muscle when bulking if I have 5-10% fat in my diet? I am not saying I am going to do this, but I want to know the reasoning. I am healthy and young so I am not gonna worry about the cancer fighting benefits and all that other health bs of EFA's.

 

[Synpax]

Here you go - straight from protein factory's site.
----
Essential Fatty Acids (EFA's) are fatty acids that the body cannot produce. They are very important for the growth and maintenance of the body's' cells. In Relationship to bodybuilding and muscle growth, EFA's should be consider one of your most important weapons for anabolic condition you can use. Research has proven that a moderate fat diet causes the BEST nitrogen retention. BUT, through fear of getting FAT, EFA's are the least used supplement in the industry. Essential Fatty Acids should take precedence over pro-hormones, creatine, and other "so-called" anabolic supplements. Why? A diet consisting of 30% EFA's can produce a better anabolic effect and higher nitrogen retention, than a high protein low carb low fat diet.

Whether a bodybuilder wants to lose body fat or increase muscle mass the diet should consist of at least 10%-40% fatty acids. How do you know if your getting 30% of your calories from EFA's? If you take in 3,000 calories a day, multiply that # by .30 (that's point 3). Thus 900 of your calories should come from FAT. Divide that # by 9 (Calories per grams of FAT) and you get 100 grams. Hence you should eat 100 grams of fat a day from good sources of fat. Good fats are as follows:
Flax, Olive, Coconut, Canola, CLA, peanut, Fish, Corn, Borage, Sunflower, Safflower, Primose, MCT, macadamia nut, and hemp oil.

BAD FATS: Dairy, Animal, Palm, Fats in butter and margarine, Olestra.


I believe that ECTOMORPH's especially should watch their fat intake. If your complaining your a "hard gainer" and you have a ectomorph frame and your not gaining muscle mass, Definitely increase your fat to a minimum of 30% of your total calories for the day. Ectomorphs are people that are tall and thin, have a hard time putting on weight etc.

One of the most important fatty acids are the omega-3 fatty acids. This fatty acid is anti-lipogenic (block fat storage), anti-catabolic, anti-inflammatory, increase beta oxidation, and improve insulin sensitivity. (REF). Flax Oil is the best source for omega-3's.

For the steroid using athlete whose nitrogen level is already "juiced up". EFA's might not be that important. But for the natural bodybuilder, fatty acids are your best weapon to increase positive nitrogen balance. If you're not getting you're fat, you're making a serious mistake.

 

[obiwan9962]

i suggested a omega369 instead of just fish oil fish mainly contains omega3
6 and 9 have other beneficial properties such as easing depression, skin and hair quality

i am a proponent of eating real foods
such as steak and fish and pork and lamb

yes oatmeal has protien but it is incomplete
you do add the protien powder but would you not relish in biting into a nice thick juicy steak??

and everyone needs veggies
yes you take a multivits
but that is to supplement what you are already getting from real foods

why not add some spinach for more iron selenium and vitA
broccoli for vit B's, A, C, many minerals and other compounds found beneficial in curciferous veggies
as well as onions for blood thinning properties as well as anitox
many other veggies are beneficial

how long do you think you can be on this diet
the boredom alone will drive you off it


if you are determined enough to stay on it
i just say add some variety

confuscius once said "variety is the spice of life"
so are you not spicy?

not trying to be an antagonist
sorry if i seem that way

just wondered how to add variety to what sounds in principle to be a sound way to cut

 

[Mr.X]

Why is it a must to have EFA's?
health aspect, read above
Also why do I have to have 20% of my diet from fat?
helps w/ testosterone production and helps utilize stored fat as energy (you have to have some fat to burn fat)
Will I gain no muscle when bulking if I have 5-10% fat in my diet?
yes, you will still gain muscle w/ lowfat

I am not saying I am going to do this, but I want to know the reasoning. I am healthy and young so I am not gonna worry about the cancer fighting benefits and all that other health bs of EFA's.you should be worried about health aspects at any age, my cousin died at 22 so everyone is at risk
Mr.X

 

[Synpax]

Me in bold

i suggested a omega369 instead of just fish oil fish mainly contains omega3
6 and 9 have other beneficial properties such as easing depression, skin and hair quality

where can I get these fats

i am a proponent of eating real foods
such as steak and fish and pork and lamb

that costs money and takes time to cook. taste is not an issue for me; most of what I cook tastes pretty bad anyway.

yes oatmeal has protien but it is incomplete
The incompletion is not covered by the other protein source? I'm going to be getting a mix.

you do add the protien powder but would you not relish in biting into a nice thick juicy steak??
Yes, I'd like the steak. Care to cook it and buy it for me? Any idea how many steaks I have to eat to get what I want and how much animal fat it would have? Further, I personally seem to have a problem with the idea of pursuing enjoyment from food. Put it in front of me, no problem, but to pursue it? I can't quiet articulate it but I know it is sound.

and everyone needs veggies
yes you take a multivits
but that is to supplement what you are already getting from real foods
supplements are made from real foods, no?


why not add some spinach for more iron selenium and vitA
broccoli for vit B's, A, C, many minerals and other compounds found beneficial in curciferous veggies
as well as onions for blood thinning properties as well as anitox
many other veggies are beneficial

because it takes tiem and money and is more cost and time efficient to get it from a pill

how long do you think you can be on this diet
the boredom alone will drive you off it
I will do my damndest. But did I mention I was having general tsaus on tuesdays (though not today).

if you are determined enough to stay on it
i just say add some variety
I do appreciate your help. When I get the dextrose and the sodium and a few other things, I'll post a complete description of the nutritents and would really like you to give it a going over for missing stuff.

confuscius once said "variety is the spice of life"
so are you not spicy?
I don't eat spicy stuff
not trying to be an antagonist
sorry if i seem that way
no, very helpful. Karma to you! - and please answer my question re the source of those other omegas.
just wondered how to add variety to what sounds in principle to be a sound way to cut
You mean 'bulk' - not cut?

 

[obiwan9962]

omega369's are available in capsule form or loose oils

i use udo's
it contains flax oil, sunflower oil, seasame oil, evening primrose oil, soy lecithin, rice bran and germ oil, oat bran and germ oil, vit e and mct

you can also get them from borage oils and fish oils

some vitamins are not made from real foods but chemicals which are not readily bioavailable

the vitamin i take has green foods included such as chlorella, kelp and alfalfa

as for cooking your food i would enjoy that being i am a chef but being a chef contary to popular misconception we are not well paid

my main concern is that boredom is the usual killer for most diets

if you are so determined then more power to you for lesser men and women have folded under such boredom

 

[Synpax]

Two problems so far:

1) I did the on day diet yesterday and had finished all 3000 calories by about 6 PM. I was still very hungry and had 3 soft chicken tacos and a zesty chicken bowl from the taco bell in my hood.

2) Need to figure out how to get sodium in the diet. I tried adding salt to the flax soaked oats, but it was unedible. I can eat bad tasting stuff but this was way beyond the pale. Is there such a thing as a sodium pill that has no flavor?

 

[obiwan9962]

check with your doc

 

[Mr.X]

1) I did the on day diet yesterday and had finished all 3000 calories by about 6 PM. I was still very hungry and had 3 soft chicken tacos and a zesty chicken bowl from the taco bell in my hood.
Try adding more protein w/ fat and fiber before bed

2) Need to figure out how to get sodium in the diet. I tried adding salt to the flax soaked oats, but it was unedible. I can eat bad tasting stuff but this was way beyond the pale. Is there such a thing as a sodium pill that has no flavor?
I would suggest against adding salt, just add something like ketchsup or mustard to some of your food

Mr.X

 

[Synpax]

ok, thanks.

Still, there is nothing to put mustard or ketchup on it. The only thing I'm eating is oats.

Given how much I sweat - i really open up twice a day most days - I should find a source. Hmmm.

 

[obiwan9962]

really there is sodium available in my foods
check the label on your diet soda for instance
i believe salt pills are available at hiking/camping stores
but i agree with mr X this can seriously affect your electrolyte and consultation with a physician is highly recommended

why not just add a pinch of salt to your water if you are so set to do so

please please if you start having motor difficulties stop!

i have found i need to take potassium instead of sodium......my calves were cramping