The Golgi organ doesn't always prevent injury, right, so ...

[SteelWeaver]

... just out of interest, is it possible to OVER-damage one's muscles through excessive forced reps, etc? Does the muscle always fail before injury? Assuming appropriate nutrition, rest, etc.

What exactly is it that happens when a muscle snaps (or is it the tendon), like say with the Fux (sp??) guy who ripped up his quads recently?

 

[The Shadow]

... just out of interest, is it possible to OVER-damage one's muscles through excessive forced reps, etc? Does the muscle always fail before injury? Assuming appropriate nutrition, rest, etc.

What exactly is it that happens when a muscle snaps (or is it the tendon), like say with the Fux (sp??) guy who ripped up his quads recently?

Aways fail before injury??

Not sure what you mean....I have seen a guy pop a pec in the middle of his normal set of reps...so the answer I suppose is not necessarily.

As far as over damaging the tissue thru intensity techniques - I think that has already been addressed.

 

[SteelWeaver]

I guess what I'm asking is what are the limiting factors in how hard one can train? I mean, spatts has said many times it's not about overtraining, it's about under-recovering. I assumed injury usually occurs when one is in an overtrained state. But your pec guy disproves that. What actually happened to him, if it was a normal set? Why did the muscle suddenly decide to just pop?

 

[The Shadow]

lol

Spatts is wise

 

[MS]

Think of that guys pec like a raw chicken breast or a piece of beef....you CAN tear it in half length ways if you apply enough force, but it takes a lot of stress. This is plain old mechanical failure. Short of complete mechanical failure, there are varying degrees of damage you can inflict on the myofibers, and the length of recovery will depend on many factors including the initial amount of damage, nutrition, gender/AAS, rest etc... More of a concern for most BBs is tendon damage since muscles strengthen a lot faster than tendons and ligaments, and tendon/ligaments take a lot more time to recover (if they ever recover completely).

In my mind, muscle damage from a single bout of weight training does not=overtraining...I think of overtraining as more of a chronic neurological condition, so you can potentially 'overtrain' without lifting super heavy. Remember the importance of the mind-muscle communication! I'm sure Wilson6 could give us a more physiological explanation?

 

[The Shadow]

In my mind, muscle damage from a single bout of weight training does not=overtraining...I think of overtraining as more of a chronic neurological condition, so you can potentially 'overtrain' without lifting super heavy. Remember the importance of the mind-muscle communication! I'm sure Wilson6 could give us a more physiological explanation?

Welll said...I have always contended that overtraining from an individual body part standpoint is often looked upon as the main definition of overtraining......

Systematic overtraining is much more prevalent IMO.....remember EVERY day is kidney day.

Ex...training arem everyday will result in localized overtraining.

Squats and deads ED will result in systematic overtraining

 

[The Shadow]

 

[wilson6]

Agree with Corn and MS.

The whole overtraining issue is complex and not well defined, but many of us have experienced it in some form.

MS is correct in that a single bout of heavy eccentric arm work is not going to result in systemic overtraining, but will cause force decrements to persist in the worked muscles for some time, even after the soreness resolves.

Repeated bouts of heavy exercise involving large muscle groups over time can result in overtraining (i.e., feeling fatigued, lacking drive to train, increased colds and illness, muscle pulls, joint pain, depression, sleep disturbances, irritability, etc.). It is also important to realize that everyone has a different threshold and that’s why a coach has to tailor and monitor the training load for each athlete even within a given event. For some, they can train heavy frequently and never have problems (those are the ones that say OT doesn't exist), for others OT occurs fairly quickly. If sleep and diet are optimal, and the symptoms of OT begin to appear, it is time to take a week off then start back in easy, taking a few weeks to get back to the original work load. What gets most of you in trouble and limits gains is the inability to take a week off of everything and just go for walks.

It is also important to be careful after a cycle. This is a time when you are lowering the body’s ability to deal with physical and psychological stress. If one continues to try and push juiced training loads and intensity, injury, illness and depression are likely to occur.

W6

 

[MS]

"What gets most of you in trouble and limits gains is the inability to take a week off of
everything and just go for walks. "

That is price less wisdom Wilson6!

 

[valerie]

Indeed MS-I'm taking my strategic deconditioning now. Taking 9 days off and just going on walks. Was getting some minor warning signals to take that now rather than finish out the final week.-Valerie