The 25 MOST ASKED (and misunderstood) Questions On EF. Don't Ask Again!

[centy]

I dunno NM, you seem to think Nolvadex creates horrible sides and should be avoided... just that fact alone makes me question most all of what you write.

In fact Ross actually made some good points IMO

Lots of good points in this thread.

The sides I got from Nolvadex were terrible. I'll never use the stuff again. Just goes to show how different compounds affect different people in different ways.

 

[Tatyana]

Horm Metab Res. 1984 Sep;16(9):492-7.Related Articles, Links

Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.

Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.

We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone,

Mesterolone = Proviron

Fluoxymestrone = Halotestin



in 27 patients with primary testicular failure.

Not a very large study, and they already had issues with the HPTA.

All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time.

They were given releasing hormones for LH/FSH and TSH, so there is more than just steroids going on.

Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks.

Low dose?, very short cycle


On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol.

Again they were given LH/FSH and TSH releasing hormones at the end of the cycle

When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones.

DOH, well no kidding as they were given LH/FSH releasing hormone etc.

However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.

Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL. There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH.


Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged.

In addition, during fluoxymesterone administration, there was a reduction in testosterone, gonadotropins and LH response to LHRH.

It says here that testosterone, LH/FSH was suppressed.

Basal TSH did not vary, but there was a reduction in the peak and integrated TSH response to TRH. PRL levels were unaltered during fluoxymesterone treatment.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS



[R]

Ok, this paper proves nothing as far as I am concerned.

It may work on people with no or very little scientific literacy, but not on those that can actually interpret them.

Sorry, no 'blinding with science' bollux going to happen on this site.

Also, unless you can explain or point out the important bits of research, not going to convince me of anything.

 

[Ross]

Exactly. And how can anyone say they maintained normal T levels while bridging? If you're bridging, you're ON!

As for the winstrol/drol debate, I still think there's a misconception here. I'm speaking in terms of building muscle tissue. Not temporary strength gains, or size or water. 100 mgs of winstrol a day will build more muscle than 100 mgs of drol a day.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Are you ACTUALLY SAYING that 100mgs of Winstrol ED will build more MUSCLE MASS than 100mgs of ANADROL ED?!?!?

Nelson, come on man.

By the way, this is all in good education, no offense intended at all.

 

[Ross]

You don't think you can maintain normal testosterone levels on 50mgs of Proviron ED? How about 15mgs Dianabol ED or 200mgs of Primo per week?

CRUSING and BRIDGING are two very different things my friend. Cruising is staying on TESTOSTERONE, in which the HPTA can not and will not recover while ON.

 

[Tatyana]

You don't think you can maintain normal testosterone levels on 50mgs of Proviron ED? How about 15mgs Dianabol ED or 200mgs of Primo per week?

CRUSING and BRIDGING are two very different things my friend. Cruising is staying on TESTOSTERONE, in which the HPTA can not and will not recover while ON.

Do you have any formal qualifications in endocrinology, biochemistry, physiology or any related scientific field?

Curious, as I do know there is 'real' world experience and 'lab/book/research' experience.

I just think the combo of both of them works best really.

 

[needtogetaas]

I still fully believe you are ether on or off. Some aas m not shut you down as much as others but they still mess with the natural homeostasis of the body.

 

[Sean Scott]

You the Man Nelson. thanks.....

 

[Ross]

I still fully believe you are ether on or off. Some aas m not shut you down as much as others but they still mess with the natural homeostasis of the body.

Yes, Bridging is not for everyone and for every goal, but it definitely has it's place in the an anabolic steroid cycling protocol.

 

[the_alcatraz]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLL!

Are you ACTUALLY SAYING that 100mgs of Winstrol ED will build more MUSCLE MASS than 100mgs of ANADROL ED?!?!?

Nelson, come on man.

By the way, this is all in good education, no offense intended at all.

Actually, in terms of lean muscle, YES Nelson is right. Winstrol does build more lean muscle than anadrol. Hands down. But in terms of strength while on, anadrol gives more strength and size (from the bloat) than winstrol.

 

[needtogetaas]

Yes, Bridging is not for everyone and for every goal, but it definitely has it's place in the an anabolic steroid cycling protocol.

True, but for the 80% of the non pros on his board