Testing Asian Underground Supplements

[bravohero]

Ok I know this isn't an original post but I am tired of this debate. We need to get to the bottom of this now and settle the debate. I am willing to do whatever is necessary to get this done.
I saw a few months back that someone had tested Anavar, I was wondering if they had the capabilities to test injects as well? This board needs to band together so crap products aren't circulating anymore, or so that we can quell the flamming about using these products.

 

[bbigman2000]

You guys are all attracted by the cheap prices, have you ever stopped to wonder why its all so cheap

 

[littlearnold1069]

You guys are all attracted by the cheap prices, have you ever stopped to wonder why its all so cheap

good point, but i can't really comment...i haven't used any of those products before

 

[Slopain]

Use real gear.

 

[poohbear]

You guys are all attracted by the cheap prices, have you ever stopped to wonder why its all so cheap

Yes, I've wondered that. So many possibilities, though.

It could be that:
he's not using the right ingredients
he's underdosing his stuff
he doesn't have to pay anything for merchandising or packaging. But masking tape is so expensive
he doesn't have to give any of the profit back to the government
the cost of living there is so cheap you can live in a big house and afford to feed yourself daily for a year or two with a McDonald's salary (from the US).
the ingredients are extremely inexpensive over there (25Kg of creatine for $1000)
he can afford to sell products so cheaply b/c some buy in bulk
he doesn't have to pay for an e-mail account
labor is so cheap that he doesn't have to pay his workers much. Here's your $0.25/hr, thank you very much.

 

[GaryWary]

Yes, I've wondered that. So many possibilities, though.

It could be that:
he's not using the right ingredients
he's underdosing his stuff
he doesn't have to pay anything for merchandising or packaging. But masking tape is so expensive
he doesn't have to give any of the profit back to the government
the cost of living there is so cheap you can live in a big house and afford to feed yourself daily for a year or two with a McDonald's salary (from the US).
the ingredients are extremely inexpensive over there (25Kg of creatine for $1000)
he can afford to sell products so cheaply b/c some buy in bulk
he doesn't have to pay for an e-mail account
labor is so cheap that he doesn't have to pay his workers much. Here's your $0.25/hr, thank you very much.

You forget to mention the sink, or bath that is his mixing apparatus.. which he still bathes in..

 

[The Iron Game]

Yes, I've wondered that. So many possibilities, though.

It could be that:
the ingredients are extremely inexpensive over there (25Kg of creatine for $1000)

Isnt Chineese creatine obsolete these days?

 

[Diesel3d]

what's the point of bothering now? Sources in asia have been flagged now. It's over

 

[TraxZBT]

what's the point of bothering now? Sources in asia have been flagged now. It's over

your wrong... it's not over

 

[Enigmaxxx7]

there's no way it's over unless the bag Mr Miyagi. they'll regroup, move, change addy and be back in business by friday.

 

[Wrought]

First off I'd like to say that

This is a simple and reasonable question, so please don't go getting all upset and defensive when I ask you ok......

The question is addressed to bbigman2000, Slopain, GaryWary, and The Iron Game. For the record guys, how many of you have actually seen the manufacturing process used to produce these products or even used them, and if you haven't actually seen them manufactured and/or used them how can you speak about their quality and effectiveness?

 

[Goering]

Very good question, Wrought.

Regards.

 

[hewlett]

answer it guys were waiting

 

[ryker77]

I've used the asia products but not alone so I can't say if they were effecitve or not.

The prices are very tempting but from now on I'll only use " real gear"

I must say that if -- big IF " If i was a Mod getting hooked up or a legit source I would call the asia gear fake too"

 

[hewlett]

your right ryker LOL

 

[The Iron Game]

Re: First off I'd like to say that

This is a simple and reasonable question, so please don't go getting all upset and defensive when I ask you ok......

The question is addressed to The Iron Game. For the record guys, how many of you have actually seen the manufacturing process used to produce these products or even used them.

Firstly, no I have not used them and feel no need to use them. I am in the UK and can get pretty much anything over here for between $3-$5 an amp so feel no need to use anything coming out of China when I can get human grade quality European gear for this price.

Now the question is to you,

Have you seen the manufacturing process? Can you explain why on super clen (25 times as powerful as the normal stuff) people do not get results or even shakes?

Can you explain why on 4 tabs of anadrol a day people do not get results?

Can you also let me know how many cycles you have done.

Peace

 

[MUSTANG_18]

Re: Re: First off I'd like to say that

I am in the UK and can get pretty much anything over here for between $3-$5 an amp so feel no need to use anything coming out of China when I can get human grade quality European gear for this price.

Man I got to move up there..you need a room mate LOL

M18

 

[The Iron Game]

Re: Re: Re: First off I'd like to say that

Man I got to move up there..you need a room mate LOL

M18

Yeah, sure thang but dont try none of that funny stuff

 

[bbigman2000]

I've used the asia products but not alone so I can't say if they were effecitve or not.

I must say that if -- big IF " If i was a Mod getting hooked up or a legit source I would call the asia gear fake too"

bolloks bro, I am not calling the asian gear fake but I just dont see why you guys would want to inject shit that came out of a 100ml vial from the other side of the world probably from a 3rd world country with poor hygene and less impressive manufacturing procedures,would any sensible person not spend the little bit extra cash and go with a properly produced and labelled and known to be sterile european product ??
bbigman2000...

 

[Wrought]

Firstly, no I have not used them and feel no need to use them. I am in the UK and can get pretty much anything over here for between $3-$5 an amp so feel no need to use anything coming out of China when I can get human grade quality European gear for this price.

Thanks for being honest IG, I would love to be in your situation but unfortunately I believe that the bulk of US and Canadian guys find ourselves in a situation that is far different. For myself and others it is a gamble every time AS is purchased because the proliferation of fakes is a serious concern where I am located and there is always a good chance that even the most informed person will wind up with an amp of completely worthless oil in an authentic looking package.

Now the question is to you,

Have you seen the manufacturing process? Can you explain why on super clen (25 times as powerful as the normal stuff) people do not get results or even shakes?

Can you explain why on 4 tabs of anadrol a day people do not get results?

Can you also let me know how many cycles you have done.

No I haven't seen the manufacturing process, which is why you will never see me make a post either pro or con about it.
I obviously can't make any assumptions or explanations about the quality of the super-clen or anadrol because I haven't used them, so you will not see me making any posts about those either. Although I do have some of the super-clen and anadrol coming some time soon, and once I have used it I will post my opinion on its effectiveness.
Also my personal history with AS is irrelevant to the thread or the question I asked. Suffice to say that I have been training seriously for about 9 years now, and am able to comment on the "generic" d-bol, winny, methylated dht, and arimidex.

 

[Dutch windmill]

You forget to mention the sink, or bath that is his mixing apparatus.. which he still bathes in..

That's funny shit Gary lol

 

[Dutch windmill]

bolloks bro, I am not calling the asian gear fake but I just dont see why you guys would want to inject shit that came out of a 100ml vial from the other side of the world probably from a 3rd world country with poor hygene and less impressive manufacturing procedures,would any sensible person not spend the little bit extra cash and go with a properly produced and labelled and known to be sterile european product ??
bbigman2000...

I'm with bbigman here..why even run a risk?

 

[Diesel3d]

I agree with you guys about having the concern about his manufacturing process of his gear… I am hesitant about using his injectables myself . Even if it may not be any different coming form a real company… it could be more of a psychological thing when we see it come in a jug, and the need to bake and boil them makes it seem all more sketchy. But the fact is, it may be no worse than what comes from the real labs. I haven’t tried any of his injectables so I can’t comment on them if they work or not, but I hear they work fine.

Not to promote stereotypes... but from my experience, most Asians are very clean, smart, obsessive compulsive, picky and precise. They take the extra step to do things the right way and take their time. They do not accept failure in any form especially if it’s from something they do. I would with no doubt in my mind believe there is a chance these Asian stereotypical traits are put into his gear making. … Just look at how fast the shipping and order process is too. They do it very well and precise. And if you complain to him…. That’s disrespect... “NO MORE GEAR FOR YOU”(have seen this happen to people)

I just don’t see the chances of him being THAT dirty. And by the volume of gear he sells and keeps stocked, I don’t see how he could be doing all this in his basement. IMO there are a lot of people involved and they cold possibly be manufacturing in a real lab with real employees. Who knows though anything could be the truth, but in all the real deal is probably not as bad as we all think.

 

[Trevdog]

"First off I'd like to say that
This is a simple and reasonable question, so please don't go getting all upset and defensive when I ask you ok......

The question is addressed to bbigman2000, Slopain, GaryWary, and The Iron Game. For the record guys, how many of you have actually seen the manufacturing process used to produce these products or even used them, and if you haven't actually seen them manufactured and/or used them how can you speak about their quality and effectiveness?"



Good point. It gets tiresome reading threads with people talking out of their asses when they have absolutely no facts to back them up.


For the record, all of the products I have sampled work as advertised.

 

[ryker77]

Isn't mexico a 3rd world country?

And who has seen Brovels or Tornel operation or anyones?

To be safe I'd never trust his anti estrogens. And I don't like the ideal of the injectables. But for the tabs at those prices its worth being underdosed. Look at the prices of winny tabs---- And even if the tabs are way underdosed it's still a good mental thing.

If I could afford to buy " real winny " then I'd do it. As for injectables I'll stick with "real gear"

 

[Slopain]

Its simple, why would you want to risk it? Yes it is a risk, do you know that there are real labs that make quality products GUARENTEED who are governed and watched by quality control OUTSIDE OF THEIR OWN COMPANY. I wish many of you were here when the real vets and mods still fielded these questions, I get the feeling that these products are getting populaur b/c newbies see other newbiews (or people kind of new to the game) who like the whole idea so back it up no matter what, while they don't here the numerous negative comments that those who have been in the game for a while have b/c they are tired of arguing why it is more advisable to use gear that is legitmate. I understand the frusteration, its not like this is a damn Playstation 2 game lol this is a foreign substance you will be putting in your body. I'd like to be 100% sure of that.

 

[3Vandoo]

Im sure its all a conspiracy by the PR of China! They are trying to mobilized the bodybuilder of the world
from the corrupted capitalist system into a communist one!


WHAT!!!!! no time I didnt heard this one

 

[Diesel3d]

This just in...

for those that are intrested i talked to the man himself....

He is not in his house, everything is made in a real lab.

He makes his tabs in batches of 500k. there is no way in hell he does that in his house.

here are his words...

"..everything made by a lab here
..i can make ampouls or dublicate any ampoule or tab
out there ..we had 600mg2ml amps before .. obviously
they cant be made at home same with making 500k tabs
per batch .. etc
"

By the amount of volume he sells i believe what he is telling me. I highly doubt his gear is "dirty" too. I think we are all underestimating his gear. AS far as his injectables go i have not heard any complaints about them. somtimes it's also a case of "too good to be true" when you see the price. The real way to find out, is to try his gear or get more of it tested.

His gear is cheap because he buys the base chemicals at bulk very cheap. The amount of profit the real manufactures make with gear is huge. They mark them up tons, and by the time they get to the US, black market and pharmacy it's a lot more. When its a real company specific people need to make money and things are regulated and all that crap. The asian lab does not need to do this. His customers are body builders only, that buy in the black market. He is taking advantage of this.

Just think OX use to be $0.30 a tab . As soon as it was discoverd useful as an aids drug the US Orphan Drug Act marked it up to regulate it $3.75 a pill.

http://lists.essential.org/pharm-policy/msg00269.html

my.02c

 

[Hardcore 24-7]

my results

Im becoming more vascular after only 5 days of the 50mg winny tabs (referreable) I cut my cyp down to 1cc this week also. My mother noticed that i was leaner and harder also I have been out side more a brownish red tan lol

 

[Older Big J]

sorry guys but i had to jump in here...

you guys are really showing ignorance here. i would imagine that most of you know who animal is right? and i'm sure that most of you agree that his "kits" work- correct? now, the cost of a fina kit is 20.00 and the cart is 35.00 so for around 60.00 we get 23 cc of good ole tren acetate or para equivalent. 23 divided by 6 equals what- about 2.50 per ml right. animal also offers many other kits as well, like the synovex kits. it worked very well too i might add. i believe it came out to 100ml of 200mg test for 180.00 so it's roughly 1.80 per cc. these kits are being done at home by regular people on a daily basis. no lab, no expensive equipment. now taking all that into consideration- it's not hard to belive that the guy in china is able to "mass" produce this stuff so cheap. it probably costs him less than 30 cents per cc and he sells for a couple bucks. that's still a heavy profit margin. i've spoken with the man many times and did you know he showed me over 9000 receipts confirming delivery. now what do you think the average amount of each sale was? it was well over 700.00. this was all within 2 years of starting the china thing. what i'm trying to say here in laymens terms is that it's a fucking joke to make this shit once you have all the ingrediants (as we've proven to ourselves thanks to animal). it's not that expensive or hard. oh and btw, i've been to many mexican places, even made it to one of the labs there and it was quite dirty compared to american standards. believe me guys i'm not trying to piss anyone off but get real guys, i remember when everyone in my area and on a few of the boards thought everything coming out of mexico was shit.

 

[beefybull]

I agree with you guys about having the concern about his manufacturing process of his gear… I am hesitant about using his injectables myself . Even if it may not be any different coming form a real company… it could be more of a psychological thing when we see it come in a jug, and the need to bake and boil them makes it seem all more sketchy. But the fact is, it may be no worse than what comes from the real labs. I haven’t tried any of his injectables so I can’t comment on them if they work or not, but I hear they work fine.

Not to promote stereotypes... but from my experience, most Asians are very clean, smart, obsessive compulsive, picky and precise. They take the extra step to do things the right way and take their time. They do not accept failure in any form especially if it’s from something they do. I would with no doubt in my mind believe there is a chance these Asian stereotypical traits are put into his gear making. … Just look at how fast the shipping and order process is too. They do it very well and precise. And if you complain to him…. That’s disrespect... “NO MORE GEAR FOR YOU”(have seen this happen to people)

I just don’t see the chances of him being THAT dirty. And by the volume of gear he sells and keeps stocked, I don’t see how he could be doing all this in his basement. IMO there are a lot of people involved and they cold possibly be manufacturing in a real lab with real employees. Who knows though anything could be the truth, but in all the real deal is probably not as bad as we all think.

Word.

 

[Frackal]

Why pay 100/100 for IP ox when you can get 100 beautiful spanish generics for the same price....his stuff is probably just inconsistant, not always fake, not always 100%, the ox has tested 9mg and 4mg for example....I'd stick with human just on principle though for injectables....no fucking way I'd put underground shit in my body. Not even mexi shit if I can help it.

 

[bazilbb]

i wonder when most of the gear comes from MEXICO to US, why r u so bothered about china, u r forgetting that thailand is almost same as china, but its gear is considered as the best.
besides labour is cheap and they cater for 100+million of their and rest of the world population. they know how to cut costs on BULK

 

[AussieJack]

Not to promote stereotypes... but from my experience, most Asians are very clean, smart, obsessive compulsive, picky and precise.

Well, having lived in Asia for over five years, I know most Asians would have a thing-or-two to say about that!

Let me digress a bit before I get to the point: Asians don't see themself as a "group" like most American or Europeans would. A Chinese would see feel that he resembles a Japanese or a Thai about as closely as he resembles an American.

And I am guessing you are drawing your conclusions from limited experience with Asian-Americans--which is a whole different ball game. The are far more well-to-do economically that Asians in most Asian countries. That leads to a very different lifestyle!

I posted a similar repsonse on another board recently, so I will paraphrase:

In Asia, and China particularly, life is cheap. People die every day for lack of $10 in medication. Most of Asia is still "developing country status" (or if you prefer "third world"), where poverty and corruption are rampant. Public sanitation is no where near the level we know in the west, with rats in kitchens and open sewers running into the drinking water. Hospitals are often big open-air pavillions with limited medical facilities.

So what does this have to do with Asian underground pharmaceuticals? Well, that's gives a depiction of the environments that set the standards for public health and safety.

Even in publically monitored healthcare facilities, often common practices of cleanliness sterility is ignored. To save a buck, they wash and re-use syringes and rubber gloves becasue they can't afford new ones. (When I travel in back-country Asia, I carry a doctor's 'script for needles & my own supply--just in case I ever need to go to a small-town hospital!)

So, if you are looking at some guy brewing things up in a lab that has no governmental controls on safety, the possibilities become almost frightening.

I would NEVER use his gear. After seeing the low-regard that people have for public health in MOST Asian countries (with places like Ja[an, Korea, Singapore and HK excluded), I would never risk using underground pharmaceuticals.

Maybe they were OK for you--but playing Russina Roulette is perfectly safe 5 out of 6 times! (That sixth time is a real bitch though!)

Stick to gear that is is manufactured under the authority of some company or agency that will insure that its manufactured to some international standards of satey and purity--for your sake!

 

[techlifter_2]

why dont you go over to www.anabolicboard.com and review the test results yourselves? Some of his products contain what and almost as much as he says, some dont. Besides, inconsistency has become synomonous with his name.

 

[Bulldog_10]

You forget to mention the sink, or bath that is his mixing apparatus.. which he still bathes in..

How annoying is this quote?

 

[jboldman]

If you are really interested in finding the answers to these questions answered in a reasonable way you need to look at other boards where this has all been hashed out in a more adult way. Quite simply when you can buy gear for the equivalent of $1-2 an amp and it obviously works(c'mon guys, folks would not be sending this guy $k's if it was bunk) it makes it an easy choice unless you happen to live in the UK and buy it for $2-3 and amp or are well off and can afford the $10-17/amp that is the going price for quality euro gear. Sure, there have been problems but on balance most folks have been satisfied. Just read all the pros and cons, make yourself aware of the limitations and then make your choice. THere is a reason that even on the biggest ** flamer board in existence, when a poll was posted about the best gear, IP came out way on top! BTW, there is NO WAY any of us knows whats in that vial on the shelf no matter what the label says. Hey, if it did not work for you, don't buy it, share your experience with others. All I can say is it has and still does work great for me!

 

[SkullFuct]

bolloks bro, I am not calling the asian gear fake but I just dont see why you guys would want to inject shit that came out of a 100ml vial from the other side of the world probably from a 3rd world country with poor hygene and less impressive manufacturing procedures,would any sensible person not spend the little bit extra cash and go with a properly produced and labelled and known to be sterile european product ??
bbigman2000...

For god's sake just use a sterile filter! I thousands of guys can make a STERILE injectable from fucking pellet implants and not get sick then I have no problems with IP's stuff.
BTW the prop/test no ester in oil is one of the best tests on the market.

 

[beefybull]

Go to http://www.anabolicboard.com/
and register

They have a section of test results in which many of IPs products were tested, some of the results were very good

 

[Pacesetter]

You forget to mention the sink, or bath that is his mixing apparatus.. which he still bathes in..

How annoying is this quote?

Yeah it's very typical of the bullshit poignant rhetoric that is bandied about on this board.

You guys who talk like that thoroughly nuke your credibility as a genuine critique of gear, IP or otherwise.

Peace

 

[gilly6993-recreatedbygeorge]

Where's johnboy?....he's a big fan of chinaman...I'm sure he'll have something to add

 

[jboldman]

Troublemaker!

Where's johnboy?....he's a big fan of chinaman...I'm sure he'll have something to add

 

[HansNZ]

what's the point of bothering now? Sources in asia have been flagged now. It's over

You put a lot of faith in bureaucrats and government agencies.

If someone is not flagged maybe 5% of their stuff gets seized. If they are flagged then maybe 6% of their stuff gets seized.

 

[Zyglamail]

Not to detract from EF, but there are a couple boards who are testing various AAS, on such board is anasci.com

 

[HansNZ]

As for the quality of chinaman's gear. I have used it for years and obtained excellent results.

The sterility issue is an interesting one. I think the stuff is as clean as you can make it. But the stuff you get in vials is sealed at the lab whereas IP's stuff comes in bladders, so it is all exposed as soon as you unscrew the lid. If you use common sense and filter and heat it you shouldn't have problems.

Firstly the price of medicines and healthcare has absolutely NOTHING to do with their quality. The US is a perfect example of medical costs gone crazy! For God's sake you can get exactly the same brand of drug over the border in Mexico for less than you pay in the US.

 

[serge]

Its simple, why would you want to risk it? Yes it is a risk, do you know that there are real labs that make quality products GUARENTEED who are governed and watched by quality control OUTSIDE OF THEIR OWN COMPANY. I wish many of you were here when the real vets and mods still fielded these questions, I get the feeling that these products are getting populaur b/c newbies see other newbiews (or people kind of new to the game) who like the whole idea so back it up no matter what, while they don't here the numerous negative comments that those who have been in the game for a while have b/c they are tired of arguing why it is more advisable to use gear that is legitmate. I understand the frusteration, its not like this is a damn Playstation 2 game lol this is a foreign substance you will be putting in your body. I'd like to be 100% sure of that.

Torner is a "quality" company that has been tested lately, needless to say their BUNKED-OUT gear has been proven underdosed by 25% compliments to www.anabolicextreme.com, ttokkyo labs are next. And no mexico does not have much in quality controls, the only thing that "controlls" quality there (or the lack off) is $$$