Tae Kwan Do in the Olympics....soooo crap

[LeviathanX]

I'm in my twenties, so I still compete regularly in invitationals and international events. I stay away from some of the bigger national events because (and I don't know if you are aware of this) there are a lot of politics and cheating going on because of the competitive nature of people at that level. It is more about getting the win, than earning the win. Furthermore, most national competitors seem to lack self-discipline and respect. I rarely even see a black belt bow to me as their senior member. Whenever I see someone of higher rank I make sure to bow and show respect.

Normally, it is alright to compete until you are a 4th Dan (I'm a 3rd Dan now). Once you are a Master you take more of a non-competitive role, although some Masters do compete and many compete by performing demonstrations.

 

[SleepingFist]

I do know exactly what you mean. When I first started training it was with Shihan Steve Oneil in Kyokushinkai and this was very traditional, very respectful and competition, which was all bare fisted knockdown was without any politics. There was only Kyokushinkai that was allowed to compete so only the best Karateka won. The judges could only rule that a technique was legal or not...there was no such thing as a hit that was 'too hard' and under those cicumstances I spent a lot of time bowing.
I am not up with competition these days but I took part in a 'semi contact' international in Ealing in London UK back in er, I was ....21 I think so back in 1985 and that was good but I had my first encounter with Kevin 'The Jedi' Brewerton. Now he is an awesome semi contact fighter, he has superb speed and timing but, he is rude, disdainful, arrogant and dismissive and he set a bad example to many of the competitors and he was one of the guests of honour!
I think that whilst politics was not such a big factor back then, at least from what I remember, the stars of semi contact set a trend that never realy changed in the free style world. We now have people such as James Winspur and his borther who are good fighters over here but they continue to run down fellow competitors, slate their rivals and show disrespect even to arts themselves (I would, were I not such a nice guy, feed him his own face if I ever met him for some of the things he has said).
I feel sometimes that I am the only one who still bows to an instructors mon, who still kneels properly when instructed and believes meditation and chi gung are not ancient mystic hokum. So, whatever you do, I think you have done something right; you come over as a veery forthright dude with a good solid attitude to his pursuits and that can be bit of a relief in this age of glory hunting turds. Good on ya.

 

[absolute hardgainer]

Well, looks like we have a discussion on this thread after all, albeit between only 3 people.

Leviathan: I no longer practice TKD, but your statements that TKD practitioners are quick but sloppy is a generalization that is simply not true for all TKD practitioners, I know personally of quite a few who are anything but sloppy with their techniques. Remember it is the man that makes the art, not the art that makes the man.

As for your ranking, is your sandan with BKK? Also, if you enjoy full contact Karate competition, have you tried kickboxing or Muay Thai?

hardgainer (pump)

 

[SleepingFist]

I don't know if you were addressing me with regard to the Kickboxing and Muay Thai but I have found them very complementary...to any art.
The Thai has really assisted with regard removing my opponents mobility and often, the opponent out right. I have great respect for the fitness and conditioning of the Thai boxers and despite being pretty damn fit myself (sometimes outrageously but its hard to maintain) I still wind up a complete wreck after a Thai session. I have to admit though, I have not cross trained in Thai for four years but maintain aspects in my personal regimen. As for kickboxing, I have tried this. In the UK there are so many different rules it is way too easy to fall foul of the ref if you do not train specifically for a certain rule system. For instance some associations allow kicking below the waist to the thigh area, others demand a minimum of 8 kicks per round (crowd pleasing of course), duration varies and so on. Whilst I love Thai, though it is not my chosen art, and whilst I respect boxing I do find that there are too few good clubs over here as I have in the past been on the receiving end of some very poor quality instruction and not been able to find anything reeeaaarrrly good whithout travelling a considerable distance. Besides which, I think that Thai fighters are better conditioned and more powerful than most 'kickboxing' clubs but do have a tendancy to kick and grapple well but box quite poorly, generally that is.
I have only fought five times in kickboxing and whilst I would not say I am any good (loath gum shields, hate breathing the way i'm told, can't stand rules etc) I did find it a good experience and for the most part enjoyable especially as it teaches you to persue a goal, set traqining deadlines for peak fitness and so on which I would say are invaluable to a competitive body builder...which I'm not.
Hardgainer...have you done any other systems to complement your training? Is it Thai or TKD...I seem to remember a post by you somewhere.....

 

[absolute hardgainer]

SleepingFist: I have trained in Tae Kwon Do (WTF style) and Karate for several years up to shodan. I have cross trained in many other styles during and since, in Australia I would dare to claim that I have trained with almost everybody who is anybody. At the moment I am teaching my own self-defence classes, and at the same time I train in Muay Thai and BJJ, Machado lineage.

If you are looking for a solid grouding in Martial Arts I would say the most important thing is to find a good instructor/school and stick with that for about 4 or 5 years before expanding your training. As to what style is best, don't believe in any hype, this style is better than that one, it is all bs.

The most important thing is that you have a good instructor, regardless what style, and that you train with total commitment and perseverance.

hardgainer (train to gain)

 

[SleepingFist]

I was not looking for advice, I am more interested in what you have discovered along the way of your journey...my thing is talking to experienced martial artists and looking for commonality.
I do seem to remember there being some realy good people in Oz, especially along the Wing Cheung and philipino lines...does WC still teach out there?
Me, i've stuck with a particular combination of skills for about 29-30 years now and have found some notions have occured to me along the way. I was just wondering what people such as yourself feel about things and what works best for them and I am not realy talking about fighting. Leviathan comes over, for instance, as a very solid, dedicated and sincere guy who is persuing excellence, like some bodybuilders who don't train just or even to look good but to attain something for their characters. You come over as persuing the combat effectiveness of you, as a fighter and self defense instructor (if that's not true I am sure you will put me straght) I am looking to strip away parts that identify me (ego, vanity, aggression) so as to find a more primal freedom and a higher consciousness as I find no point to life otherwise. When I speak of martial art I have to generalise as people vary so much. For instance, as I have become more profoundly aware of my capabilities, the need to demonstrate them has become less and less, the concept of violence has become more remote and I am greatly less self obsessed than when I was a little 18 year old shit. I have also found that hard work and dedication is ok if you want to be a disciple or average but a degree of intelligence in our approach to our expression of an art (not necesserily system) and ourselves is an important factor.
Let me pose an example using your good self; you are a self defense instructor and you have cross trained in various systems and have created the martial product (although never finished) which is you. The questions then are 1) Have you developed your own JKD? 2) Do you tailor what you teach for each student or do you have a way that you put across your ideas or system for everybody? 3) Do you work solely with by the numbers situations including awarenes and avoidance of situations and fencing techniques or do you teach specific techniques? 4) Do you explore the psychology of your student or students? All these things and probably a lot more fascinate me please advise if they are none of my business, I would understand.
Heres to a good chat mate.

 

[absolute hardgainer]

Sleeping Fist:

Wow, long post - ok I'll try to answer you as best as I can:

Wing Cheung? You mean Wing Chun instructor William Cheung, don't you? Yes, William Cheung still teaches (as far as I know) in his school in Melbourne. He is known for having made quite exuberant claims about his own martial ability and constantly claiming that 'he' was Bruce Lee's lifetime friend and mentor. There are some very good Wing Chun instructors in Oz, I have only trained with William Cheung once at a seminar, quite a few years back, and I am not in particular awe of him.

I see that you already have quite some experience in training, 29-30 years wow. I didn't mean to be condesacending when offering my advice. I am only 26 years old, so next time I'll be asking 'you' for advice. Anyhow, regarding your questions:
1) Have I developed my own JeetKuneDo? Hmm, I am not sure what exactly you mean by that. I certainly wouldn't compare my skills to Bruce Lee's. JKD was his interpretation of his own martial arts training. If you mean have I developed my own system, well sort of. I am instructing a self-defence course for women and children which at the moment is going quite well. I started in November last year after breaking away from a very large and very commercial Karate organization. I had been there top instructor in my area for the past 4 years and I felt that it was time for me to move on as my organizations financial goals didn't sit too well with my desire to have the best interests of my students at heart. I know have about 120 students of my own, which after about 10 months is not bad at all.
To be continued...

 

[absolute hardgainer]

...continued, sorry had to log off there.

2) The syllabus and requirements in my school are the same for everybody. BUT, that does not mean that my students have to conform to the syllabus - in fact it is the other way around, the syllabus conforms to them and their strengths and weaknesses.
3) I am not sure of your question here. Yes, we teach awareness. First and foremost we emphasize giving our students a psychological edge to overcome a bigger, stronger more aggressive assailant. NO, we do not teach fencing - there is a part of our syllabus that deals with using objects (pens, keys, chairs, etc) for self-defence purposes.
4) I would not say that I 'explore' the psychology of my student. I am not a shrink - and I don't think it would be appropriate for me either. Psyching for combat and self-defence scenarios is a key-component, if not THE key-component to effectively defend yourself. It is in my opinion the most neglected part of most self-defence training. A lot of our psyching techniques can be found in books such as 'Performe with Confidence' and others dealing with sports and/or combat psychology.

You are most welcome for a chat, I been chatting to people on the net about Martial Arts, Self-defence and related topics for the last 8 years or so... sometimes it gets tiring when you get a 'my MA is the best' line of argument, which I don't even bother with these days.

hardgainer (pump)

 

[NinjaX]

bro's tournament TKD is not a fighting system, it is a sport, if you want real fighting systems try shotokan, muay thai, kenpo...etc. if you want real combat scenarios go NHB/MMA

 

[LeviathanX]

if you want real fighting systems try shotokan, muay thai, kenpo...etc. if you want real combat scenarios go NHB/MMA

I wouldn't call shotokan a real fighting system. I would call it a martial art. The stances in shotokan are very deep, and the movements are very rigid and hard. It doesn't lend itself to competition very well from what I've seen.

I agree that Muay Thai kickboxing is a good fighting system, but you must remember that Muay Thai is nothing without the proper training and stringent workout schedule. The reason why Muay Thai has the reputation that it does, is because it's practitioners are constantly and consistently training.