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steroids are overrated!?

dvoted

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so guys do you think, keeping all things equal and doing a standard 12 week cycle of test with proper pct. That society has a higher expectation of muscle mass achievable on just one cycle versus reality. Was ur view similar? Did u think people could gain more on a cycle than what you expected ?
stats: 22
height: 5"9
weight: 172lbs
bf: 16% (aiming for 10%)
 
When I was young I thought that steroids just made you gain insane amounts of muscle. I thought you could do them without lifting and just get Jacked. When I started researching steroids, cycles, and eating clean It was a shock to hear the time and hard work it takes just for 10lbs of muscle.
As far as my first cycle I was very pleased with the results. I gained 18lbs and kept 14lbs.

~ JohnyCoolNuts ~
 
same here man before I did research I thought steroids was magic. That alot of muscle is gained from one cycle. But in reality its no where near that
 
Hell yea they're overrated! That's why everyone looks at you like a cheater if you tell them your on. 90% of the world population thinks you can get big on steroids without even lifting ha.
 
If you've worked hard to build as much muscle as possible naturally, they're underrated. If you think just taking large amounts can make you look amazing, they're overrated.
 
Steroids have their place, but 90% of the time guys can use SARMS or Pros and get the same results (if not better) as steroids. From my experience, 8 out of 10 guys misuse/abuse steroids due to lack of knowledge and research.
 
Sarns have sane results to increase muscle mass ?





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My training and diet is the same all year round.. when I add steroids to the mix the difference is phenomenal. Even something like dbol and 250mg of test e puts me on a different level.. most people arent at a level to use steroids and use them properly

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Sarns have sane results to increase muscle mass ?





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The immediate results arent always as drastic but, the net muscle gained and fat lost after a steroid cycle is pretty damn comparable. I always gain lean muscle and drop significant bf on sarms. They're the real deal
 
among the teenage crowd and 20's guys they are incredibly overrated because those guys have no clue how to train or eat yet.

when combined with proper training, nutrition, devotion they help you get the job done. by no means are they magic like the younger crowd thinks. in fact they can be very counter productive at a young age because they can ruin your HPTA for life and cause you to get serious permanent injuries and weaken your tendons/ligaments.

just go look at the youtube vids of young guys who admit freely they are juicing.. the guys who admit it freely seem to be the ones who look like shit..

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheDianabolMan/videos << look at this idiot as an example.. never worked out before and admits it like he is proud of it.. goes on steroids and look at his results.. he doesn't even look like he lifts. no clue how to eat, just an ignoramous
 
Lil thanks for the input guys muchly appreciated I think the social media has heaps to do with it. There's a difference between gains on cycle with the use of steroids v the abuse. Sure h can get crazy big in a year or abuse. But to be safe then no. It takes time. Ofcourse nutrition and training being dialed in.





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The vast majority have unrealistic expectations from steroids. A very successful steroid cycle is not going to give you 10-15 lbs of actual muscle tissue gain. When taking into account water, fat, and glycogen you would be very lucky if you got half of that.

Kids think they can take roids and blow up. In their kind they are magic, just like unicorns. If that were true, we would all be the size of Kai Greene in a couple years
 
^^^ this. Could you safely say that on a person with average genetics proper diet and training would gain one years worth of muscle in a 12 weeks cycle opposed to training natural for a year ??





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The vast majority have unrealistic expectations from steroids. A very successful steroid cycle is not going to give you 10-15 lbs of actual muscle tissue gain. When taking into account water, fat, and glycogen you would be very lucky if you got half of that.

Kids think they can take roids and blow up. In their kind they are magic, just like unicorns. If that were true, we would all be the size of Kai Greene in a couple years


I do believe you can become a Kai Greene in a couple of years. I don't find it the "big thing" seriously.
The problem is to have the money for that.
The thing is to develop every muscle as Kai did to a point where you become really competitive, that's the difference between Kai and "Us".
You can achieve his size in a couple of years, what you cannot achieve is his level of development.

I saw a time ago a kid called Bostin Loyd I believe, who went from 0 to pro in only a year and I can honestly say that it is the most unreal transformation ever.

I don't agree on "Roids are overrated", if you gain 0-5 pounds of muscle with them (unintentionally) then something is seriously wrong with you.

I remember a pro admiting he gained 40 pounds of muscle with 1 cycle while he was already waaaay above his genetic potential.

Can you be the size of Kai Greene in a couple of years with roids = Yes.
Can you do it with Test and Deca = No.
 
Im only 20 and have been lifting for 4 years now, right now im doing sl 5x5
5x5 rep weight:
Squat- 225
Barbell row- 170
Bench- 210
Deadlift- 325
Push press-120
Front squat- 190
I do an A/B style rotate every week 3x week and im adding 5 pounds a week.
Im 6'3 1/2, 225 , if I decide to cycle in a couple years with a simple test/var cycle how much should I expect to gain
My diets pretty good but not 100% to be honest

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Im only 20 and have been lifting for 4 years now, right now im doing sl 5x5
5x5 rep weight:
Squat- 225
Barbell row- 170
Bench- 210
Deadlift- 325
Push press-120
Front squat- 190
I do an A/B style rotate every week 3x week and im adding 5 pounds a week.
Im 6'3 1/2, 225 , if I decide to cycle in a couple years with a simple test/var cycle how much should I expect to gain
My diets pretty good but not 100% to be honest

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Nobody can answer a question like that.everyone responds differently..

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I do believe you can become a Kai Greene in a couple of years. I don't find it the "big thing" seriously.
The problem is to have the money for that.
The thing is to develop every muscle as Kai did to a point where you become really competitive, that's the difference between Kai and "Us".
You can achieve his size in a couple of years, what you cannot achieve is his level of development.

I saw a time ago a kid called Bostin Loyd I believe, who went from 0 to pro in only a year and I can honestly say that it is the most unreal transformation ever.

I don't agree on "Roids are overrated", if you gain 0-5 pounds of muscle with them (unintentionally) then something is seriously wrong with you.

I remember a pro admiting he gained 40 pounds of muscle with 1 cycle while he was already waaaay above his genetic potential.

Can you be the size of Kai Greene in a couple of years with roids = Yes.
Can you do it with Test and Deca = No.


Lol @ you for thinking that you or the vast majority of people are able to look like Green. It has something to do with genetics and little to do with roids; which I don't have time tonight to explain to you, but I will before the weekend is over.
 
Genetics play a huge role. Steroids aren't a miracle drug.





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I've found steroids to be much more effective at an older age. But not because of the weight gain or mass build up but more to do with recovery. At 50 years old it is much harder to recover from hard workouts. Steroids improve that and at least for me it gives me a mental edge as well when I'm on.
 
Lol @ you for thinking that you or the vast majority of people are able to look like Green. It has something to do with genetics and little to do with roids; which I don't have time tonight to explain to you, but I will before the weekend is over.

No no no no!
I said "His size" not "Look like". There's a whole world in between. Don't get me wrong with that.
Also I said that based on real life, I'm not arguing.
Such "Discussion" has no end and I don't have the energy for that either, seriously.

I can defend my point telling you "You can achieve his size in a couple of years with these X Y Z compounds but I'm not, here are inmature eyes reading us and I don't want to indirectly encourage them but I'm really sure you know what I mean.

I'm reading what you have to say though :D You never know when you can learn something new.
 
Yes I'd say steroids are definitely overrated, but so is 'going to the gym'.... most guys seem to think they can join the gym and in three months they'll look jacked as hell and crazy ripped...

I watched a great video clip one time of this guy who was talking about people's misconception of muscle gain, 95% of people think they can get a great physique by running on a treadmill, or swimming, or doing dumb shit on a swiss ball... The best point he made was you couldn't start sprinting and in six months expect to be nationally competitive in the 100m, so why do people think they can 'go to the gym' and in six months look like a pro bodybuilder...

To get big results you have to live it, you have to bleed for the gains whether you use steroids or not, its going to take a long time no matter what you do, and as others have said a lot depends on genetics diet and training, I've seen young guys on AAS training consistently and remaining skinny fat, I've also seen guys get big and ripped without any AAS, there are a lot of factors at play, but steroids on their own, just like any other factor on its own can only get you so far...
 
I watched a great video clip one time of this guy who was talking about people's misconception of muscle gain, 95% of people think they can get a great physique by running on a treadmill, or swimming, or doing dumb shit on a swiss ball... The best point he made was you couldn't start sprinting and in six months expect to be nationally competitive in the 100m, so why do people think they can 'go to the gym' and in six months look like a pro bodybuilder...

...

good point. if you go to a road race the guys winning the bigger races have been running since they were 8 years old. the guys who started late in life and who have no background in running will never sniff 1st place type times in 5K's, 10K's or halves. its just not gonna happen. you have to develop the conditioning and muscle memory for years and years.

so not sure why guys think lifting is any different. thats why i implore parents to get their kids involved in sports at a young age and they should absolutely start lifting weights around 8th grade which is about 12-13 years old. this will pay off dividends once they get into their 20s and 30's

now it doesn't mean just cause you start late in life you have to quit on it.. but i'm just saying its gonna be very difficult for you to compete against your peers who have been doing it all their lives. sames goes for anything.. fishing, boating, sailing, etc etc. or any sport
 
Yeah exactly it also helps with confidence I've heard countless stories of guys not going gym because they're not confident on themselves. I'm like.. Everyone started from somewhere it doesn't happen overnight





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No no no no!
I said "His size" not "Look like". There's a whole world in between. Don't get me wrong with that.
Also I said that based on real life, I'm not arguing.
Such "Discussion" has no end and I don't have the energy for that either, seriously.

I can defend my point telling you "You can achieve his size in a couple of years with these X Y Z compounds but I'm not, here are inmature eyes reading us and I don't want to indirectly encourage them but I'm really sure you know what I mean.

I'm reading what you have to say though :D You never know when you can learn something new.


It's all good, dude. I don't like to argue much over the internet myself, it's futile. As you can see I been member here for 5 years and only have 3,500 posts, which means I don't say much unless I'm compelled to.

My point was that genetics play the fundamental role in whether or not a person excels to the National level and beyond or not.

The big boys, who pack on all that size have a genetic mutation, that does prohibit Myostatin from playing its role in the body's fight to return to its normal state. In other words, they don't have a muscle regulator to tell their body to stop producing muscle tissue. In essence, they are freaks, but not in the connotation that is used on these boards; they are literally side shows.

I been studying genes for a while, and I have concluded through my own study that the majority of the people who are National competiters and pros have a mutation in both copies of the MTSN gene, which means they are homozygotes. Hence, their body produces abnormal muscle growth and strength. Their bodies would indeed make new receptors, which would make them utilize chemicals to the max.

The next type we have are heterozygotes, those people have a mutation in one copy of the MTSN gene. Those types pack on the muscle with ease but not like homozygotes but definitely at a abnormal rate. The heterozygotes would also utilize chemicals at an alarming rate, which means they would make new receptors; opposed to people who don't have any mutations in the MTSN gene.

People who have these mutation are going to excel way faster than the masses, and get over those hurdles that hinder the masses in this sport. I'm talking about a very small percentage of people. I'm talking about people who don't really have to train that hard because they are going to grow regardless. I'm talking about people who don't really eat that clean and still grow like a weed and are simultaneously lean. I'm talking about people who can use a small amount of gear and still get jacked beyond belief. Don't believe the hype!

Are steroids overrated? Imo, steroids are indeed overrated, unless a person is a competitive BBer or needs to use roids because there is a financial reward to be had related to fitness, other than that, then that person should leave roids alone. I believe people are able to develop a nice physique without chemicals. There are plenty of good sups on this board to aid people on their quest to developing a nice physique. No, I'm not a sup rep. I can careless what another man or woman does, I'm just giving my opinion about this subject.
 
It's all good, dude. I don't like to argue much over the internet myself, it's futile. As you can see I been member here for 5 years and only have 3,500 posts, which means I don't say much unless I'm compelled to.

My point was that genetics play the fundamental role in whether or not a person excels to the National level and beyond or not.

The big boys, who pack on all that size have a genetic mutation, that does prohibit Myostatin from playing its role in the body's fight to return to its normal state. In other words, they don't have a muscle regulator to tell their body to stop producing muscle tissue. In essence, they are freaks, but not in the connotation that is used on these boards; they are literally side shows.

I been studying genes for a while, and I have concluded through my own study that the majority of the people who are National competiters and pros have a mutation in both copies of the MTSN gene, which means they are homozygotes. Hence, their body produces abnormal muscle growth and strength. Their bodies would indeed make new receptors, which would make them utilize chemicals to the max.

The next type we have are heterozygotes, those people have a mutation in one copy of the MTSN gene. Those types pack on the muscle with ease but not like homozygotes but definitely at a abnormal rate. The heterozygotes would also utilize chemicals at an alarming rate, which means they would make new receptors; opposed to people who don't have any mutations in the MTSN gene.

People who have these mutation are going to excel way faster than the masses, and get over those hurdles that hinder the masses in this sport. I'm talking about a very small percentage of people. I'm talking about people who don't really have to train that hard because they are going to grow regardless. I'm talking about people who don't really eat that clean and still grow like a weed and are simultaneously lean. I'm talking about people who can use a small amount of gear and still get jacked beyond belief. Don't believe the hype!

Are steroids overrated? Imo, steroids are indeed overrated, unless a person is a competitive BBer or needs to use roids because there is a financial reward to be had related to fitness, other than that, then that person should leave roids alone. I believe people are able to develop a nice physique without chemicals. There are plenty of good sups on this board to aid people on their quest to developing a nice physique. No, I'm not a sup rep. I can careless what another man or woman does, I'm just giving my opinion about this subject.

That's a very interesting take on the pros, but it does make a lot of sense. Very good information Led. You may be on to something here.
 
It's all good, dude. I don't like to argue much over the internet myself, it's futile. As you can see I been member here for 5 years and only have 3,500 posts, which means I don't say much unless I'm compelled to.

My point was that genetics play the fundamental role in whether or not a person excels to the National level and beyond or not.

The big boys, who pack on all that size have a genetic mutation, that does prohibit Myostatin from playing its role in the body's fight to return to its normal state. In other words, they don't have a muscle regulator to tell their body to stop producing muscle tissue. In essence, they are freaks, but not in the connotation that is used on these boards; they are literally side shows.

I been studying genes for a while, and I have concluded through my own study that the majority of the people who are National competiters and pros have a mutation in both copies of the MTSN gene, which means they are homozygotes. Hence, their body produces abnormal muscle growth and strength. Their bodies would indeed make new receptors, which would make them utilize chemicals to the max.

The next type we have are heterozygotes, those people have a mutation in one copy of the MTSN gene. Those types pack on the muscle with ease but not like homozygotes but definitely at a abnormal rate. The heterozygotes would also utilize chemicals at an alarming rate, which means they would make new receptors; opposed to people who don't have any mutations in the MTSN gene.

People who have these mutation are going to excel way faster than the masses, and get over those hurdles that hinder the masses in this sport. I'm talking about a very small percentage of people. I'm talking about people who don't really have to train that hard because they are going to grow regardless. I'm talking about people who don't really eat that clean and still grow like a weed and are simultaneously lean. I'm talking about people who can use a small amount of gear and still get jacked beyond belief. Don't believe the hype!

Are steroids overrated? Imo, steroids are indeed overrated, unless a person is a competitive BBer or needs to use roids because there is a financial reward to be had related to fitness, other than that, then that person should leave roids alone. I believe people are able to develop a nice physique without chemicals. There are plenty of good sups on this board to aid people on their quest to developing a nice physique. No, I'm not a sup rep. I can careless what another man or woman does, I'm just giving my opinion about this subject.

great post bro. I agree 100%. the genetics thing is real. there is a company that you can send in your spit to and they will process it all and tell you a lot based on your genetics.. chance of getting certain cancers, diabetes, other diseases.. % of your genes that are in olympic athletes which can tell you if you are more able to be athletically gifted or not. this shit is very real and its a reality. i feel sorry for guys with inferior genetics who i see in the gym who work their asses off but go nowhere. once such friend of mine ended up getting cancer at a young age, he is genetically fucked .. i ran into him recently and i was shocked, he had ballooned into 300+_pounds and obese, i used to workout with the guy when we were teens. he worked his ass off with me in the weightroom when we were younger and he went absolutely nowhere and now i know why. his athletic genetics are shit.
 
I don't think steroids are overrated nor underrated. Steroids are just another class of medicines that started out to aid people with wasting diseases and it served its purpose like all medicines do. I don't look upon Steroids as "The Elixir of Life" nor "Aqua Vitae".
It is a drug that should be used wisely to get the most out of the drug/medicine. Most guys have these exaggerated expectations about what the drug/s will do to them and ask for cycle information and preparation months in advance of the proposed cycle like there is some innate danger to injecting steroids vs oral supplementation. And then when they don't see the culmination of their dream, they all blame it on the steroids and the steroids get get the bashing. I do agree that genetics do play a role in only those that have that genetic make up to get to Olympic largeness, but the average bodybuilder isn't looking to get Cutler, Coleman, or Yates physiques , they just want to look good for themselves, maybe win a local or regional trophy, what the hell, and look good for their wives and girlfriends. You take medicine for an ailment, sickness or some physical debilitating disease. You take the medicine because if you don't, you are going to die.
I have never put steroids on a pedestal nor below it. I know what to expect when I use steroids. If I'm slacking in my workout, I'm not going to berate the steroids because of my lack of drive or motivation, nor my body.
I see steroids as drugs/medicine(TRT) that can help me reach an attainable goal; such as gaining 20-30 lb. of muscle within a 4 year time frame, helps me to have a good erection(No more Viagra).
I'm not going to use or abuse 12,000mgml. of Test E or take 800mg. of Dbol a month to see how close can I get to an Olympic body before I need a kidney or liver transplant.
This question should be posed to the pros and amateur bodybuilders, power lifters, strong men, etc, etc. I'm going to work at getting the most out of my body and the most out of the steroids.
Steroids don't have to be overrated nor underrated, but they should be respected!
 
great post bro. I agree 100%. the genetics thing is real. there is a company that you can send in your spit to and they will process it all and tell you a lot based on your genetics.. chance of getting certain cancers, diabetes, other diseases.. % of your genes that are in olympic athletes which can tell you if you are more able to be athletically gifted or not. this shit is very real and its a reality. i feel sorry for guys with inferior genetics who i see in the gym who work their asses off but go nowhere. once such friend of mine ended up getting cancer at a young age, he is genetically fucked .. i ran into him recently and i was shocked, he had ballooned into 300+_pounds and obese, i used to workout with the guy when we were teens. he worked his ass off with me in the weightroom when we were younger and he went absolutely nowhere and now i know why. his athletic genetics are shit.


Lol. I know exactly the types you are talking about; I encountered those types quite a bit through the years. Their diet is dialed in; train ridiculously hard; sleep 8 hrs a night and their body composition does not budge. I feel sorry for those poor souls, I really do.

You get the same scenario on these boards. People make threads like: my D-bol is not working; my diet is not working; my training routine is not working. I'm half tempted to say, "it's you who is not working, everything else is working fine."
 
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That's a very interesting take on the pros, but it does make a lot of sense. Very good information Led. You may be on to something here.

We are getting there, Rick. I compiled some good data at home about genes. I will share it in the near future..
 
great post bro. I agree 100%. the genetics thing is real. there is a company that you can send in your spit to and they will process it all and tell you a lot based on your genetics.. chance of getting certain cancers, diabetes, other diseases.. % of your genes that are in olympic athletes which can tell you if you are more able to be athletically gifted or not. this shit is very real and its a reality. i feel sorry for guys with inferior genetics who i see in the gym who work their asses off but go nowhere. once such friend of mine ended up getting cancer at a young age, he is genetically fucked .. i ran into him recently and i was shocked, he had ballooned into 300+_pounds and obese, i used to workout with the guy when we were teens. he worked his ass off with me in the weightroom when we were younger and he went absolutely nowhere and now i know why. his athletic genetics are shit.

That company is 23andme.com.

Ledhead is getting into a fun territory dealing with polymorphisms and allele frequency. I agree with him completely. Genes play the biggest role and all other forms of supplements come second. A simple point mutation of any purine/pyrimidine (depending on position) can have either no affect or completely replace an amino acid with another. That's just from a small change of 1 nucleotide. There's all kinds of mutagens that can determine how you react (or don't) to various exogenous sources.

There's even studies that show some people are just predisposed to certain addictions like nicotine. Genes are more powerful than people give them credit for.

This reminds me of a few posts I've seen on this forum with certain individuals bashing/complaining about products that make me think those people might have just gotten the short end of the stick on the genetic lottery.
 
well I will say if you haven't figured out if your genetics are bad for this lifestyle by now then I don't know what to tell you.

also just cause you have shit genetics doesn't mean you can't go to the gym and let off steam. lifting has many benefits besides being 'huge' or being able to bench 3 plates. hell i know guys who go fishing all the time and never catch shit but they just enjoy going out on the boat for the day.. to them its fun even if they suck at fishing
 
Lol. I honestly cannot claim any Vince Lombardi distinctions.

You aren't giving yourself enough credit...also this forum is pretty damn fortunate to have you giving your knowledge...I think we have had a conversation about this haven't we??? Hope things are well bro ;).

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well I will say if you haven't figured out if your genetics are bad for this lifestyle by now then I don't know what to tell you.

also just cause you have shit genetics doesn't mean you can't go to the gym and let off steam. lifting has many benefits besides being 'huge' or being able to bench 3 plates. hell i know guys who go fishing all the time and never catch shit but they just enjoy going out on the boat for the day.. to them its fun even if they suck at fishing

Pretty ironic...I have had the patience to build muscle over the past 20+ years of training...but have absolutely no patience to go fishing lol!!!

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