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Stats, Schmats. What REALLY Matters.

Nelson Montana

Nelson Montana

Chairman of Board
Chairman Member
I know it's standard to get more info from someone before critiquing, but really, how much does it matter?

Sure, if someone is a beginner it makes a difference. If someone is underage it matters. If someone weighs 140 pounds, it matters. But all in all, someone can have good stats, except for the one thing that's most important -- WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.

In other words, 5'10" 220 , lifting for 5 years and have done 6 cycles may sound like someone who's somewhat experienced, but let me tell you, I've seen a lot of guys with those "stats" who like like utter crap.

I know it's a new world and the gear comes before the training. This has been addressed ad-nauseum. But when it gets to the point (and it's there) when guys on a gram a week not only don't look better than guys who are natural, but guys who barely work out...well, something's wrong.

With all we know about gear and all tha;'s been learned in the last 10 years, people use it WORSE than when hardly anything was known about it -- from all the ridiculous "rules" I hear to the insane dosages that still exist.

But worst of all is HOW and WHY they are used. Steroids are no longer the last step. They're usually the first. And I don't give a rats ass if someone wants to chug a bottle of A-bombs and follow it with a pint of Jim Beam. But let's not gauge those results with what should REALLY be expected. It's been said before but I'll say it again. You can make gains on 25 mgs of dbol a day. If you can't grow on 750 mgs of ANYTHING, you suck.

Feel like you need a gram a week? That's more than anybody who stepped on the Olympia stage prior to 1975 or so. Where they not big enough for ya?

A cycle without test is a waste? Gee, I guess Arnold was wasting his time.

Think because you're a hardgainer you need more gear? Guess what...it won't matter. You'll still be a hardgainer. Try eating more and lifting more.

It's actually gotten to the point where if I were to randomly take a non pro natural bodybuilder and a non pro juicer there's a good chance the NATURAL guy will look better, based solely on the fact that he trains to build muscle while the juicer depends on the gear. And then when it doesn't work he wants to know if some other combination of drugs is the answer for his sorry ass training, diet and supplementation regime.

Maybe everyone should post pics before asking advice about gear. In that case i can guarantee, 98% of them will be told they shouldn't even bother.

Sorry for the rant brothers, but I love bodybuilding and I have a high reverence for steroids and hope to be instrumental in getting them legalized. This pattern of behavior that I see growing and growing is making that hope harder for me. Steroids are officially a recreational drug. And that may very well be what kills the cause for all of us.
 
Perhaps if there was no "war" on them going on in the US, teenagers would not be seeing their idols in front of senate committees and thinking "that's why they are so good".

The idea that these athletes have "cheated" causes the notion that they have talent BECAUSE of the steroids.

Do they have a slight advantage? Yes. Could this advantage only be utilized after years and grueling hours of dedication to their skill? Hell NO.

Same thing translates to BB. Utilize the advantage AFTER the skill has been developed. In this case the skill is training and diet.
 
good post....I love reading your stuff. You shine a whole new light onto things, and while not everyone always agrees with you it's still nice to get another perspective. I think posting photos up is a good idea, because I often wonder how truthful people are being with their stats. Hell..on the internet i'm 6'5" 280 6%BF. :D...

oh and...











are you sure you just don't want to see my sexy body?
 
Good post Nelson. I'm relatively new to bodybuilding boards but not to bodybuilding. I have to say that I was shocked and a bit disappointed when I started to look at pics of guys on these boards. I guess I expected them to look a lot better than they did. There are exceptions of course but, by and large, the level of physical development given the amount of gear these guys were using was not what I had expected. I don't know if its poor diet, poor training, bunk gear, improper dosing, but something doesn't add up because I don't see anyone even approaching the level of development that the old timers who used half as much gear had.
 
LOL, i had that bookmarked from last year when some guy sent it to me. Its good for a laugh every month or so.
 
Though I don't think it's necessary, I post my progress pics all the time.
 
Problem with us on here using twice as much gear as the guys in the 1960s and early 1970s and not looking like them is simply a matter of genetics first and foremost. Most people on here can't match Larry Scott's development he achieved in 1965 with 10-20mgs of dianabol day.

Most people on here can't rival Steve Reeves' physique he had in the late 1940s, genetics.

What did recreational bodybuilders of the 60s and 70s look like, not elite level professional athletes of this period in time, not a fair comparison.

Compare your basketball, hockey, and baseball skills to the likes of Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky,Ty Cobb. Do you stand a chance?
 
daveyboy2345 said:
Problem with us on here using twice as much gear as the guys in the 1960s and early 1970s and not looking like them is simply a matter of genetics first and foremost. Most people on here can't match Larry Scott's development he achieved in 1965 with 10-20mgs of dianabol day.

Most people on here can't rival Steve Reeves' physique he had in the late 1940s, genetics.

What did recreational bodybuilders of the 60s and 70s look like, not elite level professional athletes of this period in time, not a fair comparison.

Compare your basketball, hockey, and baseball skills to the likes of Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky,Ty Cobb. Do you stand a chance?
Click to expand...
Very good point. I know this to be the case first hand as I grew up with Shawn Ray and knew him before he ever touched a weight. You could see his incredible genetic potential even then. Even in 6th grade, he had a freakish physique.
 
And while we're on the subject, what's with the lack of focus? Yesterday I was busting my ass at the gym and these two guys are on a machine I want so I used the machine next to it to kill some time. These guys weren't huge but definitely bigger than I am. So these guys are sitting there talking and I'm done with three sets before he finishes his next one, and while this guy was doing his set they're still talking, he isn't even unphased. I swear to god he did 4 reps and stopped! I went to use another machine and came back, he was still f ing around on it. Pissed me off.

Also I saw this ripped guy texting between sets. I spit on my genetics!hahaha
 
yea ive always wondered why ppl always ask for stats? the net is like a telephone, you can be anything you want on the other end. but at the same time, i guess it gives you a chance to see if they even know what we're talking about.
 
good post nelson. i doubt you will get many people to post pics cuz of the nature of aas being illegal. yes, im sure most people lie about their stats, and the say their diet is dialed in when in reality its shit and they want to cheat by using aas. i agree pics and a listed diet would be most benificial when trying to get advice.

and miplank, that shit is hillarious. up there with the gut that put a needle in his asshole! prob the same guy
 
Good post.. I have my pic in my avi almost always. Sorry I don't look like Heman or Skeletor :)
Everyone have a phone, or camera, or cam on their computer ( like me!) and should be able to get pics uploaded fast. this is the... 00's you know!
I am cutting a lot before I start so I will look like I have somewhat of a body to start up a cycle, lol
 
daveyboy2345 said:
Problem with us on here using twice as much gear as the guys in the 1960s and early 1970s and not looking like them is simply a matter of genetics first and foremost. Most people on here can't match Larry Scott's development he achieved in 1965 with 10-20mgs of dianabol day.

Most people on here can't rival Steve Reeves' physique he had in the late 1940s, genetics.

What did recreational bodybuilders of the 60s and 70s look like, not elite level professional athletes of this period in time, not a fair comparison.

Compare your basketball, hockey, and baseball skills to the likes of Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky,Ty Cobb. Do you stand a chance?
Click to expand...

Wrong thinking bro. All the gear in the world won't give you Reeve's frame so your argument doesn't hold water. Gear does not compensate for bad genetics. Gear does what it does for everyone -- it simply gives you a little more than you can get without it.

So yeah, Scott looked great and the little bit helped. But by YOU taking 10 times as much, it ain't gonna get you closer to looking like Scott.

It's thinking like that which is the reason I see guys who boast of 30 pound gains, when the weight they gained looks like it could have come from eating an extra box of cupcakes every day.
 
I absolutely love this line of thinking and couldn't agree more.

I like to think bodybuilding is a 3-part pie.

1 part training, 1 part diet, 1 part hormonal.

All parts need to be equal and balanced. If one is larger than the other the whole is not complete or harmonized.

The training slice takes years to perfect and understand. It's individual. Which is why some people get more development from a Smith machine while others swear by dumbbells. You need to listen to your own body. And leave your ego at the door. A basic understanding of what works for YOU should be present before turning to gear.

Same with diet. Some people respond better to certain types of carbs, protein and fats. Some people don't like to create insulin spikes post workout. Some people find whole wheat pasta is the shit. Some people think pasta makes them fat.

Hormones. Understanding what compound does what and how it makes you feel. Acknowledging that you don't need 500mg of test for your first cycle. Or second. Or third. Knowing that tren should be a last resort to an extremely advanced (LOOKING) bodybuilder. Being able to ditch a compound if it makes you feel like shit. Building clean muscle while staying lean. Isn't the point of bodybuilding to look great all the time? Why do you want to bloat up like a moon face on cycle just to deflate and think you just lost quality muscle when it was just water retention? Why not use dry compounds with low doses that react synergistically? Arnold didn't need tren or clen. You do? If you compete, the talent pool is different. But if you want a dense, defined physique then you need to realize all the new age shit is not necessary.
 
swole said:
I absolutely love this line of thinking and couldn't agree more.

I like to think bodybuilding is a 3-part pie.

1 part training, 1 part diet, 1 part hormonal.

All parts need to be equal and balanced. If one is larger than the other the whole is not complete or harmonized.

The training slice takes years to perfect and understand. It's individual. Which is why some people get more development from a Smith machine while others swear by dumbbells. You need to listen to your own body. And leave your ego at the door. A basic understanding of what works for YOU should be present before turning to gear.

Same with diet. Some people respond better to certain types of carbs, protein and fats. Some people don't like to create insulin spikes post workout. Some people find whole wheat pasta is the shit. Some people think pasta makes them fat.

Hormones. Understanding what compound does what and how it makes you feel. Acknowledging that you don't need 500mg of test for your first cycle. Or second. Or third. Knowing that tren should be a last resort to an extremely advanced (LOOKING) bodybuilder. Being able to ditch a compound if it makes you feel like shit. Building clean muscle while staying lean. Isn't the point of bodybuilding to look great all the time? Why do you want to bloat up like a moon face on cycle just to deflate and think you just lost quality muscle when it was just water retention? Why not use dry compounds with low doses that react synergistically? Arnold didn't need tren or clen. You do? If you compete, the talent pool is different. But if you want a dense, defined physique then you need to realize all the new age shit is not necessary.
Click to expand...


Actually I'd like to add that bodybuilding is a four part pie:

1- Training
2- Diet & supplementation
3- Rest
4- Hormones & chemicals
 
As always Nelson a great thought provoking post.

AAS were, back in the era you discuss, mainly only available and used for the elite. When i say elite i mean semi to pro athletes who needed to push their bodies over and above their genetic peaks or to remain at the very top. The knowledge base was there and has been tested many times but what is interesting about the theories that have been deduced from that era is that they are medically proved to be incorrect BUT they worked so who is to say they were wrong e.g. Arnold on Dbol only for god knows how long when now that is shot down daily!

AAS are far more readily available and so is the information which means there is a whole new market of people that really believe they are muscle in an amp or tab and compensate lack of knowledge, training, diet and rest with massive dosages of test etc.

The worst is and was the most common use of HGH. It was some 12 months ago as common as vitamin tablets when training where IMHO that really is to push you above your genetic peak which 99% are nowhere near IMHO

There is a real argument for back to basics as for all the benefits the internet has brought with the sharing of information it has also meant the use of AAS has changed in terms of common user and dosages required

Wrongun!
 
Nelson Montana said:
I know it's standard to get more info from someone before critiquing, but really, how much does it matter?

Sure, if someone is a beginner it makes a difference. If someone is underage it matters. If someone weighs 140 pounds, it matters. But all in all, someone can have good stats, except for the one thing that's most important -- WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE.

In other words, 5'10" 220 , lifting for 5 years and have done 6 cycles may sound like someone who's somewhat experienced, but let me tell you, I've seen a lot of guys with those "stats" who like like utter crap.

I know it's a new world and the gear comes before the training. This has been addressed ad-nauseum. But when it gets to the point (and it's there) when guys on a gram a week not only don't look better than guys who are natural, but guys who barely work out...well, something's wrong.

With all we know about gear and all tha;'s been learned in the last 10 years, people use it WORSE than when hardly anything was known about it -- from all the ridiculous "rules" I hear to the insane dosages that still exist.

But worst of all is HOW and WHY they are used. Steroids are no longer the last step. They're usually the first. And I don't give a rats ass if someone wants to chug a bottle of A-bombs and follow it with a pint of Jim Beam. But let's not gauge those results with what should REALLY be expected. It's been said before but I'll say it again. You can make gains on 25 mgs of dbol a day. If you can't grow on 750 mgs of ANYTHING, you suck.

Feel like you need a gram a week? That's more than anybody who stepped on the Olympia stage prior to 1975 or so. Where they not big enough for ya?

A cycle without test is a waste? Gee, I guess Arnold was wasting his time.

Think because you're a hardgainer you need more gear? Guess what...it won't matter. You'll still be a hardgainer. Try eating more and lifting more.

It's actually gotten to the point where if I were to randomly take a non pro natural bodybuilder and a non pro juicer there's a good chance the NATURAL guy will look better, based solely on the fact that he trains to build muscle while the juicer depends on the gear. And then when it doesn't work he wants to know if some other combination of drugs is the answer for his sorry ass training, diet and supplementation regime.

Maybe everyone should post pics before asking advice about gear. In that case i can guarantee, 98% of them will be told they shouldn't even bother.

Sorry for the rant brothers, but I love bodybuilding and I have a high reverence for steroids and hope to be instrumental in getting them legalized. This pattern of behavior that I see growing and growing is making that hope harder for me. Steroids are officially a recreational drug. And that may very well be what kills the cause for all of us.
Click to expand...


i cant agree more with this post. First of all as of lately i have been noticing ppl come on here saying they been on roids for 10 years or ya i just finished a cycle and i train for 4 years. i click there profile and i see a fat blob, skinny dude, or someone that just doesnt look like they ever touched the juice. I have friends that have taken juice and i can honestly say out of my numerous friends that taken it only 2 or 3 used it properly and have gotten good results. The others just sit around on there asses and expect to get big. then when they gain 5lbs they think they are the biggest things in the world when its basically nothng noticable or when they gain nothing they wonder why. I also get things from my friends like oh ur only big because u juice and ur just a cheat. that right there pisses me off more then anything. first off i work my ass off hard as fuck to get results, while these shitheads goto the gym once or twice a week and expect to get big. ppl dont realize its not all about juice, yes it will get u big only if u know how to use them correctly.

Today i was talkin to my friend that got some juice recently and is going to start it, i was watching a video where it said "ya i juice but its not about just juicing its alot of hardwork and dedication to gain size", and my friend goes "ya right" i looked at him and i said he is right it is hardwork and my friend is like "sure it is" and gave me a look like don't lie to me, i just wanted to beat his ass right there because he thought i was lieing, hes got alot comin to him if he thinks he can just jump on the juice and expect to see great results.

and btw i agree with the 25mg of dbol only is all you need i gained 23lbs on a 6week cycle of dbol only 25mg/day and i kept 17lbs maybe i have better then average genetics but 25mg is enough to do the body good.

and the pictures is a good idea because these ppl say there 6'1 230lbs. 230lbs of what FAT??

and ill admit im not even that big im decent and i bet im bigger then more then half the ppl on here that claim they are so big.
 
peoples percertion that aas does all the work is there insecurity making up excuse why they look like shit. its alot easier standing on your pedistal blaming your ethical stance on not being willing to use steroids as your reason for looking like shit. anyway, i agree that there should be a certain amount of info provided before advice is given. maybe a sticky could be made with a list of required info. that has to be given before anybody new can be given any advice. the same should hold true for people administering advice. i mean if were going to require pics to get advice then shouldnt the same hold true for those giving advice ? how will anybody know if the advice there getting is coming from soemone who has been able to get the results everyone seeks. there seems to be alot of self proclaimed experts on this site who people seem to think are the end all knowledge on the subject but no body has any idea what they look like. and you dont have to post your face and any distinguishing marks like tats can be blurred out. i just think it would be a great idea for those giving advice to post before and after pics to show the proof is in the pudding.
 
boyer said:
Yes agree def every mod, elite mentor and chairman.
Click to expand...

Many have. Funny thing is, the guys who look best are the ones who seem to take the least.

I believe the EF consultation site will carry 3 pics of me, which will tell more than how big I am. It'll show how I've progressed. One is a pic of me in my late 30's after working out for years. I'm pathetic. One year later, I changed everything and began utilized my own techniques and put on 25 pounds of muscle 100% DRUG FREE and became a body model. There's another pic of me two years later after a few low dose cycles when I placed 5th at the NPC at age 42.

So it's not just being big. Anybody can be big if they eat a lot and take a gram of gear a week. It's how much you progress, KNOWING how to progress, HOW to sculpt your body properly and how to build QUALITY muscle with as little gear as possible. And keep it -- even when off.

Look at Tatyana. Lifelong natty. She looks awesome. Because she knows what's she's doing.

These are the people you should be listening to.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Many have. Funny thing is, the guys who look best are the ones who seem to take the least.

I believe the EF consultation site will carry 3 pics of me, which will tell more than how big I am. It'll show how I've progressed. One is a pic of me in my late 30's after working out for years. I'm pathetic. One year later, I changed everything and began utilized my own techniques and put on 25 pounds of muscle 100% DRUG FREE and became a body model. There's another pic of me two years later after a few low dose cycles when I placed 5th at the NPC at age 42.

So it's not just being big. Anybody can be big if they eat a lot and take a gram of gear a week. It's how much you progress, KNOWING how to progress, HOW to sculpt your body properly and how to build QUALITY muscle with as little gear as possible. And keep it -- even when off.

Look at Tatyana. Lifelong natty. She looks awesome. Because she knows what's she's doing.

These are the people you should be listening to.
Click to expand...


I've seen your pictures bro. You have proven your knowledge in more than one instance through your posts. You know your shit, so to speak. You are an asset to EF and everyone knows that. Controversy is a good thing on a board like this.
 
Thanks Nelson

I do have good genetics for building muscle, but I think the other thing that I got lucky with was my first training buddy had me realise the effort you have to put in when training.

I see far too many lads in the gym and going through the motions, counting out their reps.

It doesn't work like that. Whether or not you are going lighter doing more reps or heavier with less, you are going to look a bit like a plonker by the end as you will be pulling faces and grunting.


I was also lucky that I starting working on healthy eating at around 18.

I am still working on adjusting things in my diet so they are optimum for me, experimenting with different techniques.
 
lilj888 said:
i cant agree more with this post. First of all as of lately i have been noticing ppl come on here saying they been on roids for 10 years or ya i just finished a cycle and i train for 4 years. i click there profile and i see a fat blob, skinny dude, or someone that just doesnt look like they ever touched the juice. I have friends that have taken juice and i can honestly say out of my numerous friends that taken it only 2 or 3 used it properly and have gotten good results. The others just sit around on there asses and expect to get big. then when they gain 5lbs they think they are the biggest things in the world when its basically nothng noticable or when they gain nothing they wonder why. I also get things from my friends like oh ur only big because u juice and ur just a cheat. that right there pisses me off more then anything. first off i work my ass off hard as fuck to get results, while these shitheads goto the gym once or twice a week and expect to get big. ppl dont realize its not all about juice, yes it will get u big only if u know how to use them correctly.

Today i was talkin to my friend that got some juice recently and is going to start it, i was watching a video where it said "ya i juice but its not about just juicing its alot of hardwork and dedication to gain size", and my friend goes "ya right" i looked at him and i said he is right it is hardwork and my friend is like "sure it is" and gave me a look like don't lie to me, i just wanted to beat his ass right there because he thought i was lieing, hes got alot comin to him if he thinks he can just jump on the juice and expect to see great results.

and btw i agree with the 25mg of dbol only is all you need i gained 23lbs on a 6week cycle of dbol only 25mg/day and i kept 17lbs maybe i have better then average genetics but 25mg is enough to do the body good.

and the pictures is a good idea because these ppl say there 6'1 230lbs. 230lbs of what FAT??

and ill admit im not even that big im decent and i bet im bigger then more then half the ppl on here that claim they are so big.
Click to expand...


ive posted pics on here i bust my ass in the gym and eat right and im 6'3 260 and i can see my abs...i cant even find a training parter because i train so hard...and my genetics suck i started lifting seriously at 18 was the same height weighed like 190 and had a gut...could bench 185 one time barely...now i can throw up 405 on the bench like nothing...bodybuilding to me is like a drug im obsessed with it and cant live without it to bad im also obsessed with juice and cant live without it lol....the stuff is addicting i dont care what anyone says...i bet more then half the people on here never come off and dont even realize they are addicted to gear
 
airsmith2k said:
ive posted pics on here i bust my ass in the gym and eat right and im 6'3 260 and i can see my abs...i cant even find a training parter because i train so hard...and my genetics suck i started lifting seriously at 18 was the same height weighed like 190 and had a gut...could bench 185 one time barely...now i can throw up 405 on the bench like nothing...bodybuilding to me is like a drug im obsessed with it and cant live without it to bad im also obsessed with juice and cant live without it lol....the stuff is addicting i dont care what anyone says...i bet more then half the people on here never come off and dont even realize they are addicted to gear
Click to expand...

yes ive seen pics of u u are big bro, just people dont realize the work that needs to be put in. i do admit i am addicted myself but once i reach my goal, i will stop the aas. hopefully
 
daveyboy2345 said:
Problem with us on here using twice as much gear as the guys in the 1960s and early 1970s and not looking like them is simply a matter of genetics first and foremost. Most people on here can't match Larry Scott's development he achieved in 1965 with 10-20mgs of dianabol day.

Most people on here can't rival Steve Reeves' physique he had in the late 1940s, genetics.

What did recreational bodybuilders of the 60s and 70s look like, not elite level professional athletes of this period in time, not a fair comparison.

Compare your basketball, hockey, and baseball skills to the likes of Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky,Ty Cobb. Do you stand a chance?
Click to expand...







BEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPP! Sorry Wrong Answer, I Have almost 30 cycles under my belt,and i'm going on 58 in Dec. and As the saying goes To looks Different than everyone else , You have to do everything different than everyone else.
Aside from training, Diet, Nutrition,And Rest, Gear is the extra 10 % nothing more!

RADAR
 
Last edited:
airsmith2k said:
ive posted pics on here i bust my ass in the gym and eat right and im 6'3 260 and i can see my abs...i cant even find a training parter because i train so hard...and my genetics suck i started lifting seriously at 18 was the same height weighed like 190 and had a gut...could bench 185 one time barely...now i can throw up 405 on the bench like nothing...bodybuilding to me is like a drug im obsessed with it and cant live without it to bad im also obsessed with juice and cant live without it lol....the stuff is addicting i dont care what anyone says...i bet more then half the people on here never come off and dont even realize they are addicted to gear
Click to expand...

Props to you for having a level head and although some dont agree with some of your dosages (including me) you obviously take bodybuilding seriously. I hope that you stay safe and dont let your quest for getting huge and strong come between growing old and being healthy. K to you.
 
RADAR said:
BEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPP! Sorry Wrong Answer, I Have almost 30 cycles under my belt,and i'm going on 58 in Dec. and As the saying goes To looks Different than everyone else , You have to do everything different than everyone else.
Aside from training, Diet, Nutrition,And Rest, Gear is the extra 10 % nothing more!

RADAR
Click to expand...

I think it's more like an astounding 20%, but I see what you're saying ;)
 
the_alcatraz said:
I've seen your pictures bro. You have proven your knowledge in more than one instance through your posts. You know your shit, so to speak. You are an asset to EF and everyone knows that. Controversy is a good thing on a board like this.
Click to expand...

Thanks bro.

And yes, Tatyana has the genetics. I don't. The only advantage I had was a decently aesthetic frame. Other than that, I suck. But in both cases it's the WORK that brings the results. Some just have to work smarter than others.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Thanks bro.

And yes, Tatyana has the genetics. I don't. The only advantage I had was a decently aesthetic frame. Other than that, I suck. But in both cases it's the WORK that brings the results. Some just have to work smarter than others.
Click to expand...

You're too modest bro :)
 
Nelson Montana said:
So it's not just being big. Anybody can be big if they eat a lot and take a gram of gear a week. It's how much you progress, KNOWING how to progress, HOW to sculpt your body properly and how to build QUALITY muscle with as little gear as possible. And keep it -- even when off.
Click to expand...

This is an excellent thread but I think the above pretty much summarizes the whole thing.

I too have been doing this for some time starting back when I was playing football (rugby) in Australia. Then when I retired and concentrated on my business, got married and started a family obviously my training took a back seat for a long time (10 years) but been back at it now for 3 years solid and 4-5 overall. I thought I knew a lot but training with Omega of late has opened my eyes tremondously to what can be achieved with a slightly different outlook so my advice is to all that your never too old to learn and listen to a few who have really dedicated themsleves to this lifestyle.

EF is very fortunate to have to have the likes of Omega, PP, Tat and Nelson available to enlighten us and there are others too. When they talk we should all be listening. Never close your mind to someone's point of view especially when that perspective comes with a ton of knowledge, understanding and experience.
 
Nelson Montana said:
Sure, if someone is a beginner it makes a difference. If someone is underage it matters. If someone weighs 140 pounds, it matters. But all in all, someone can have good stats, except for the one thing that's most important -- HOW MUCH THEY CAN SQUAT, BENCH, AND DEADLIFT.
Click to expand...

<-----------

Here is what big lifts look like on me. I am 5'11 and about 230.



:cool:
 
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