someone trying to convince me that protein should be eaten 45 min- hour after workout

[Grim Divinity]

Hello, someone I work with is trying to convince me that protein should be eaten 45 min- hour after workout instead of right after for optimum muscle building. This is contrary to everything I have ever heard about post workout nutrition. Can someone explain to me scientifically why you should intake protein as soon as possible so I can show him? Unless I am wrong

 

[Rudee34]

Providing the workout was not too long in duration or intensity, thus causing catabolic hormones such as cortisol to be released, natural growth hormone levels will increase up to 60 minutes after exercise. The last thing you want to do is shut down this natural 'anabolic' release of growth hormone by stuffing your face with food.

Secondly, the hormonal surge that happens in a body that has gone under moderate stress (working out) is beneficial to fatloss. This is known as "riding the hormonal wave". Expecially important after a session of cardio. Eating right after a workout replenishes carbohydrate stores if carbodydrates are consumed, but it shuts down the release of anabolic hormones. Insulin is the trigger.

To take advantage of natural growth hormone release, wait a minimum of 40 minutes, then have a protein shake. This will curb growth hormone release, but not shut it down. A carbohydrate beverage will surely shut growth hormone down, and fill glycogen stores instead. Thus for optimum fatloss you should consume easily digestible protein (shake). For energy, consume carbodydrates.

The best method for both fatloss and muscle growth is consuming a protein drink 40-60 minute after your session, followed by a carbohydrate meal 2 hours afterwards. This allows you to maximize growh hormone and fill glycogen stores. If you're following a ketogenic diet, then obviously your either going to skip on the carbohydrate meal or opt for a small portion of low glycemic carbodhydrate or a larger portion of fiberous carbodhydrate. (note: fiber is non digestible, and not stored by the body)

Hope that answers you question.

 

[Grim Divinity]

sure does!! Looks like I was wrong. Figures

Its seems weird that most people even a lot of the pro BB have protein drinks as soon as they are finished... what gives.

 

[Rudee34]

Pro bodybuilders aren't too concerned with increasing natural growth hormone and testosterone levels when they are taking synthetic derivatives of the exact same thing. i.e Steroids, HGH. Towards contest time, however, you'll find that many of them use more of a scientific approach as I previously mentioned.

 

[johnny iron]

I too use to wait an hour after my workout to have my postworkout shake. Then, I started having one postworkout and for some odd reason I started growing Those giant meatheads at the gym must not understand this science too well. Do yourself a favor and read up on some of Charles Poliquins work, or any other respected strength training coach, you'll see that they advise eating immediatley after a bodybuilding workout for best gains.

 

[Belial]

Makes no sense. Post-workout, you'd want to stop catabolism as quickly as possible and take advantage of the testosterone increase, etc., and the current depleted state of the muscles to supersaturate them, hence the high GI carbs and fast-digesting protein.

Growth hormone is primarily released during sleep, not post-workout, so I don't see why you should hold off and allow catabolism to continue while you wait for "growth hormone" to do its work.......

 

[Rudee34]

Catabolism increases as the workout duration increases. Scientific evidence shows that after roughly 60 minutes of intense exercise, cortisol levels in the body rise drastically, and when cortisol levels rise, growth hormone declines. It's a fallacy that Growth Hormone is only released when you sleep. I had previously thought the same, however reading 3 detailed books on the subject, evidence shows that this is indeed true. Growth hormone is released in very small amounts throughout the day, depending on the state of the hormones in your body.

Evidence also shows that natural growth hormone levels are supressed if carbohydrates are consumed immediately after a intense workout - sure they replenish glycogen, but your hormonal state is altered.

The catabolic release of cortisol can be diminished significantly be keeping workout duration to a minimum - especially if intensity is high. Evidence shows that streneous exercise longer than 1 hour increases catabolic hormones drastically; Thus if you insist on the "longer is better" philosophy, then you might want to have that carbodydrate beverage, because your growth hormone levels are taking a nosedive anyway.

 

[Cackerot69]

The post workout growth hormone spike is less important than replenishing glycogen and ATP. Growth hormone in itself cannot build muscle, there has to be material for growth.

After a workout glycogen, ATP, and PC (phosphocreatine) are depleted. In order for protein synthesis to occur optimally sufficient ATP and specific enzymes must be present in the muscle (glycogen provides some of the ATP which provides the energy necessary for protein synthesis). Each set you do depletes intramuscular ATP, glycogen and enzyme levels - this depletion inhibits growth.

Prolonging gylcogen depletion in *hopes* of spiking GH is not very wise.

Consume your post workout meal immediately after training.

 

[Rudee34]

Growth hormone in itself cannot build muscle

Care to make a wager on that?

I can assure you that growth hormone is the most important hormone in the body, affecting numerous metabolic and psychological processes in the human body. I'm going to assume I misinterpreted you.

 

[Cackerot69]

I have nothing to wager, but i'll debate it

 

[Belial]

*kicks rudee in the head*

I said PRIMARILY, bwoy.

 

[Rudee34]

I tend to lean toward the natural preserverance of natural HGH levels, as opposed to fostering their decline. And as such, I prefer to "enhance" natural levels of HGH where all possible, short of taking Recombinant HGH Therapy at a cost of thousands of dollars. And according to the reputable publications that I have reviewed on the subject - and I am no medical doctor - I am absolutely convinced small "enhancements" such as I described in previous posts slow the decline of HGH levels in the body, reverting to benefit the body instead. Anything you can do to keep HGH levels from declining as they do at a rapid rate of upwards of 15% from the ages of 30 to 45 - the better you are.

Aging as we know it, is simply a product of HGH decline. Along with this comes it's clinical symptoms: unfavorable body composition (increased bodyfat), decreased bone density, poor lipid metabolism, impaired cardiovascular function and decrease physical performance, and drastic reduction in muscle mass. So as not to turn this into a HGH thread and get way off the initial subject, I will simply state that minor adjustments made to diet can reep enormous benefits as far as increasing natural levels of HGH go. My recommendation to wait 45 minutes before consuming your post-workout meal was based soley on clinical studies on the subject of post exercise performance and it's effect on hormones. I suppose it all depends on what you're after as to what you consume and when you consume your postworkout meal. For optimum fatloss: wait 45 minutes. For optimum performance: consume immediately. That's my simple recommendation.

I respect your opinions, thus we shall just agree to disagree.

Incidentally, at 34 years of age (soon to be 35) I am in the absolute best shape of my life, despite the fact that I have been strength training for 18 years. At 210 pounds, my bodyfat varies from as low as 7% to a "soft" 13%. Even at 13% bodyfat, I'm fairly sharp and tend to carry a "four pack" as opposed to a six pack I carry around the summer months when I reduce my bodyfat. I'm no medical doctor, and never claimed to be a expert, but I do observe things very well, and most importantly I'm not narrow minded - thus I'm open to new ideas. It's these new ideas and what seems to be unorthadox ways of dieting/training that has brought my physique to new levels in a fraction of the time. If you learn anything from my posts - and I hope you do - learn to be openminded about everything, and don't get stuck on just one idea of point of view. Experiment a little.

 

[Belial]

For optimum performance: consume immediately

There we go.

 

[Rudee34]

Well, since this is a Diet Discussion Board I made the assumption fatloss was the topic originator's priority.

I'm assuming many people here will sacrifice performance for body composition. i.e they're not concerned with getting their benchpress higher, they're concerned with losing the botbelly; thus my recommendations vary.

 

[MS]

Without getting too much into the debate about what to eat when, I just want to point out that most of the hGH increase you get post exercise is a non-functional isoform and does not contribute to IGF-1 activity (which is the real muscle builder, NOT the hGH). In other words you get more hGH circulating after exercise, but it does not contribute significantly to muscle growth. It can however act as an anti-catabolic (but so does insulin/glucose). Not all endogenous hGH is the same. Going to sleep with low insulin levels will probably do more for your hGH/IGF-1 induced muscle growth than going without food post-workout IMHO.

My advice is to eat immediately afterwards if you're trying to gain muscle, and put it off 30-60 minutes if you're trying to lose fat. Grim Divinity clearly states he is interested in building muscle.

 

[Cackerot69]

"Without getting too much into the debate about what to eat when, I just want to point out that most of the hGH increase you get post exercise is a non-functional isoform and does not contribute to IGF-1 activity (which is the real muscle builder, NOT the hGH). In other words you get more hGH circulating after exercise, but it does not contribute significantly to muscle growth. It can however act as an anti-catabolic (but so does insulin/glucose). Not all endogenous hGH is the same. Going to sleep with low insulin levels will probably do more for your hGH/IGF-1 induced muscle growth than going without food post-workout IMHO."

Exactly.

 

[johnny iron]

Rudee34, why don't you step on over to the Anabolic Forum, and tell them what you told us. The big boys will be interested to hear about your "science based" ideas that work so well in the real world.

P.S. Are you also a big fan of HMB??

 

[Rudee34]

johnny iron


Talk to me in 10 years when you mature and get a clue.

 

[MS]

In defense of Rudee34, I assume he is here to learn AND help like the rest of us. None of us can know everything about every topic. So now he's learned two neat lessons.....the effects of post exercise GH excretion are probably over-rated, AND it's a very good idea to stay away from the anabolics board because ya'll run around with giant flame-throwers over your shoulders. Considering this board is virtually unmoderated I think it does an admirable job of keeping things civilized. Let's try our best to keep it that way