OL + BB split for Steel

[JJFigure]

Last night, my PLer and I came up with a training split for Steel that would help her round out her OL training with some BB exercises. Steel is training with an OL coach twice a week:

OL Day 1 - snatches, snatch pulls or overhead squats, and front squats

OL Day 2 - clean and jerks, clean pulls or jerks off the rack, and back squats

We felt Steel is getting plenty lower body work from her OL split, so we focused on rounding out her upper body training. We debated adding a little quad and ham work, but felt she'd end up overtraining if we added in more lower body.

We added two days of training that combined strength and hypertrophy rep ranges:

BB Day 1:

Bench Press, 3-5 reps
Flyes, 8-10 reps
Pullups, to failure (ideally 3-5 reps, even if assisted)
Lat Pulldowns, 8 reps
Tricep Extensions, 4-6 reps
(skull crushers/overhead extensions, cable extensions)
Bicep Curls, 4-6 reps
(BB Curls, incline curls, preacher curls, hammer curls)
Bicep Curls, 8-12 reps
(Incline curls, preacher curls, concentration curls)
Rear Delts, 8-12 reps
(DB rear laterals on incline bench/machine rear laterals)

BB Day 2:

Incline Bench Press (bar or db), 3-5 reps
BB Rows, 3-5 reps
Close Grip Bench Press, 3-5 reps
Tricep Pushdowns, 8-12 reps or Dips, to failure (ideally 8-12 reps)
Bicep Curls, 4-6 reps
(BB Curls, incline curls, preacher curls, hammer curls)
Rear Delts, 4-6 reps
(DB rear laterals on incline bench/machine rear laterals)
Calf raises, 10-15 reps
Abs, 10-15 reps

Ideally, the OL work and BB work would be intermingled - for example, day 1 - OL, day 2 - BB, day 3 - rest, day 4 - OL, day 5 - BB, day 6-7 rest.

OK Steel, what do you think?

 

[slinky]

Your OL Day 1 is almost exactly what I did yesterday. Wild.

 

[JJFigure]

That's from Steel's existing workout; it's what her OL coach put together. We were just trying to fill in the gaps - you know how those OL lifters hate to do chest work!

Snatches are next on my list. My shoulder hates me right now, so I'm waiting for it to settle down a little.

 

[slinky]

Oh, here's what we tried yesterday and I think you should give it a shot also.

It's the "frog stance". Instead of placing your feet in the usual shoulder or wider width - put your heals together (NOT touching), toes pointed out - like how a frog's would be if it were standing. Ko had read that the Japanese Oly-lifters were using this stance and killing the competition. Anyways as you drop under the weight (after the pull) your feet should be out wider (the usual width for snatch).

We found that we were able to drop under the weight after the pull quicker; definitely more explosive "pop".

Just thought I should let ya know! And I like what you have here! Steel? Where are ye?

 

[SteelWeaver]

You and your man are the bomb, JJ Thank you!

At this point, I'm so frustrated, I'll try anything, and this looks good. I see how the reps cover the range. For quite a long time I didn't stray much above about 7 or 8, so for the past several weeks or so I've been working with almost everything (not OL, of course) in the 10-12 or higher range. It feels good, and I've made a bit of progress. For a while there I was about ready to give everything up, I was so down, but my lifts are looking up lately - last week was full of PR's, and my squat has come back to where it was 2 months ago when everything suddenly dived.

In fact, my coach, having bet me a steak a few weeks ago that he could do this, brought my deadlift up about 30 lbs in one session last night ........ AFTER we did cleans & jerks

Speaking of deadlifts - is there any way I can fit them in this programme? Are these sets supposed to be to failure? (besides the pullups) - I'm assuming not, since I'll be training 2x per week on the same muscle groups. How many sets? I've brought my set numbers waaay down lately in an attempt to see how LITTLE will get me results, since I know how MUCH will NOT, lol! One set of each? Any kind of "periodisation"? Undulating, as W6 does it? Stay with the same layout for ?? weeks?

Unfortunately, my OL days are Wed and Fri, so BB days are Sat and Mon or Tues. Never mind, though, I'll see how it goes.

Thank you!!

Slinky - what happens to the knees with that stance? Have you tried, um, can't remember the right name - drop jerks? You stand with the bar on your shoulders as in a normal back squat, then you suddenly drop under the bar, straightening your arms at the same time. So the height of the bar itself does not actually move - you just drop under it - very fun - hard to get that fast (ha ha, especially if you're me and you have a huge overabundance of slow-twitch fibres, grrr). I'll try the frog thing

 

[JJFigure]

Just like with DFHT, you won't be going to failure, although your last set will be pretty close. Your goal is to be able to get clean sets with the same working weight. We've been playing with increasing my volume on one compound lift each workout; for example, I may pick bench and do 8x3s with it; the rest of my compound work will stay in the 18-20 total rep range. It actually seems to be helping break some of my strength barriers.

I brought up DLs with him, and he never really answered me. Let me talk to him and see where they would fit in.

You probably want to go percentage based - do a 5-6 week cycle, deload for 1 week, get new 1RMs and go back into a 5-6 week cycle. Here's an example:

Week 1: 70% of 1RM for 5x5 (compound movements)
Week 2: 75% 5x4
Week 3: 80% 5x3
Week 4: 85% 6x2
Week 5: 90% 4x2
Week 6: 95% 3x2

This is a simple example with rep ranges based on Prilepin's optimal percentages; here's a more complex 14 week cycle:

Week 1: 70% 1RM for 3 sets of 10 reps
Week 2: 70% 1RM for 3 sets of 10 reps
Week 3: 73% 1RM for 3 sets of 10 reps
Week 4: 76% 1RM for 3 sets of 8 reps
Week 5: 79% 1RM for 3 sets of 6 reps
Week 6: 82% 1RM for 3 sets of 5 reps
Week 7: 85% 1RM for 3 sets of 5 reps
Week 8: 88% 1RM for 3 sets of 5 reps
Week 9: 91% 1RM for 3 sets of 3 reps
Week 10: 94% 1RM for 3 sets of 3 reps
Week 11: 97% 1RM for 2 sets of 2 reps
Week 12: 100% 1RMfor 2 sets of 2 reps
Week 13: 104% 1RM for 2 sets of 1-2 reps
Week 14: 107-110% 1RM for 2 sets of 1

Personally, I feel pretty beat up after 6 weeks; I'm not sure I could handle 14 weeks.

What are you doing Slinky?

 

[slinky]

Steel: Ko (my bf) is the one who performs a sorta "drop jerk" on his push presses. He's been able to add more weight to the load with this technique.

I don't perform my push presses this way, but am considering it. Not as coordinated as he, hehehe. Tonight is clean/overhead press - so I may be givin' it a shot. As for the frog stance: as you jump into the dip of the snatch, there is no added stress to the knees. If anything, the frog stance makes going into the dip easier. Is this what you were asking?

JJ: I'm not working with percentages as much and have been keeping my rep ranges in the 5-8 arena. What I've done is lighten the load and have been concentrating on explosiveness/bar speed. I have that kettlebell/oly-lifting workshop next Saturday and have been spending the last three weeks preparing for it (don't want to look like an idiot ). After the workshop I go into my 3-week blocks (agility, explosive/speed, strength). I'll definitely be posting an outline in this board.

 

[JJFigure]

Steel - how about deadlifting 2xmonth, bringing them in on the second day in place of BB rows - or in addition to BB rows, just cutting down on the number of set for your rows?

 

[JJFigure]

Rob and I worked out the percentages I'll use in this next training cycle, and I thought you'd be interested. I was planning on doing a 6 week cycle; he shot that down immediately, and recommended this instead:

wk1 - 60%x1RM
wk2 - 65%x1RM
wk3 - 70%x1RM
wk4 - 75%x1RM
wk5 - 65%x1RM *deloading week
wk6 - 70%x1RM
wk7 - 75%x1RM
wk8 - 80%x1RM
wk9 - 85%x1RM
wk10 - re-test 1RMs/deload

I'm making an assumption on week 10 you'd re-test; I need to clarify that with him, since it seems a little odd to be re-testing after only going up to 85% of 1RM. Although, that's basically what I did this past training phase; I only went to 85-90% of 1RM before I tested.

Set/volume ranges for compound movements (based on Prilipen):

60-65% : 5-6 reps/set : 18-30 total reps
70-75% : 4-5 reps/set : 12-24 total reps
80-85% : 3-4 reps/set : 10-20 total reps
90-95% : 2-3 reps/set : 4-10 total reps
95-100% : 1 rep/set : 1-2 total reps

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thanks JJ. Beena bit slow responding - mid-term tests.

I tried the first day of this last Saturday, and boy was I SORE for days after - amazing what a difference the lower rep range makes to DOMS. Anyway, it was good - didn't take too long to complete - did 5x5 for bench, 2 sets flyes, 3 sets pullups, 2 sets lat pulldowns, 3 sets skullcrushers, 3 sets bb curls, 2 sets db curls, 2 sets rear delts and some abs. I wonder what would happen if I alternated the two workouts on a weekly basis, instead of 3 days apart? Anyway, will try for 8-10 week programme, with one deload in the middle, see how I go.

My coach said he'll train my deadlift, so that's sorted out Otherwise, squats and snatches and front squats are back to making amazing progress again - food and creatine have made a HUGE difference. Weird, because when my lifts dropped, I was sleeping 10 hours a day, but not getting the nutrition. Interesting. Will keep you up to date on how I do.

Slinky - I can't remember if I ever got back to you on that thread where I asked what you do fo rtraining cycles .... I thought at the time that doing OL only every 3 weeks wouldn't help my OL skill - don't you find you've basically "forgotten" the lifts by the time you do them again?