Non-federally Controlled Indian Land And Juice....

[bbkingpin]

By your reasoning the Indians' land is the entire continental United States. The Indians entered into a treaty with the United States government and were granted tracts of land where they could basically govern themselves. I don't know why you are crying so hard for the Indians. I will tell you this: in my research I found that when that law was passed, a few of the states voluntarily let the tribes opt-out of the criminal jurisdiction aspect, and the tribes did not. You really should go talk to the tribal leaders on these reservations. Aside from your argument about how the USA took their land and all of that, ask them if they would rather fund their own civil and criminal justice systems -- from the courts all the way down to the cops. It is a privilege that they enjoy. There are no state cops patrolling Indian reservations. But if they need the cops, they are entitled to that protection. Even though they do not pay for those services. Again, I know you will say why should they pay taxes on THEIR LAND. Let me ask you this: Why, when I PAY FOR MY LAND, do I still have to pay property taxes? Because our taxes pay for the government services provided. Indians get the benefit without the burden! You really should get a better idea of what you are talking about. Instead of being a crusader for the Indians. I really do not think they want your help. They are doing just fine raking in casino profits. The way you talk about overthrowing the government you are either a militant Indian -- I mean native American -- or a militant Muslim. If you hate the USA so much, move to a third world country where you don't have to worry about the government or paying taxes. Oh yeah, get used to shitting in a hole in the ground and forget about bathing. And forget about calling any cops if you are in need of help. You really should get out of this oppressive country. I think it would do you a world of good. I can't believe you started pissing and moaning because you cannot import steroids legally to an Indian reservation. I get my steroids just fine, no problems. I'll pay a little more to the guy who smuggles them -- kind of like paying a tax!

 

[HULKSTER]

By your reasoning the Indians' land is the entire continental United States. The Indians entered into a treaty with the United States government and were granted tracts of land where they could basically govern themselves. I don't know why you are crying so hard for the Indians. I will tell you this: in my research I found that when that law was passed, a few of the states voluntarily let the tribes opt-out of the criminal jurisdiction aspect, and the tribes did not. You really should go talk to the tribal leaders on these reservations. Aside from your argument about how the USA took their land and all of that, ask them if they would rather fund their own civil and criminal justice systems -- from the courts all the way down to the cops. It is a privilege that they enjoy. There are no state cops patrolling Indian reservations. But if they need the cops, they are entitled to that protection. Even though they do not pay for those services. Again, I know you will say why should they pay taxes on THEIR LAND. Let me ask you this: Why, when I PAY FOR MY LAND, do I still have to pay property taxes? Because our taxes pay for the government services provided. Indians get the benefit without the burden! You really should get a better idea of what you are talking about. Instead of being a crusader for the Indians. I really do not think they want your help. They are doing just fine raking in casino profits. The way you talk about overthrowing the government you are either a militant Indian -- I mean native American -- or a militant Muslim. If you hate the USA so much, move to a third world country where you don't have to worry about the government or paying taxes. Oh yeah, get used to shitting in a hole in the ground and forget about bathing. And forget about calling any cops if you are in need of help. You really should get out of this oppressive country. I think it would do you a world of good. I can't believe you started pissing and moaning because you cannot import steroids legally to an Indian reservation. I get my steroids just fine, no problems. I'll pay a little more to the guy who smuggles them -- kind of like paying a tax!

As a lawyer, do you truly and honestly believe the Indians understood their rights, as well as the stipulations and consequences of signing those treaties? It was hard enough for Indians back then just to learn English, so don't you think it would have been EXTREMELY HARD for the Indians not only to learn English, but American law as well? I haven't heard of too many top-notch Indian lawyers during the late 1800's practicing law, when most of these treaties were signed and the Indians were forced, against their will onto reservations. And for tribes like the Apache and Najavo, who decided to fight back, were essentially slaughtered. Even our own American Government has come out and admitted to all of this.

 

[bbkingpin]

And for tribes like the Apache and Najavo, who decided to fight back, were essentially slaughtered. Even our own American Government has come out and admitted to all of this.

What about what blacks suffered or Chinese or Japanese during WWII? What about the prejudice the Irish suffered? The Indians enjoy a lot of things now because the USA feels a need to attone for the sins they committed. That is why there is a slavery reparations movement going on right now. Do you really want to disassemble the United States because of what one of so many minorities suffered at one time? Look what Germany did to the Jews! You can demonize the USA all you want. It is ridiculous. I really do not want to keep going back and forth like this. I respect you enough to answer your arguments but what it comes down to is a difference in outlook and values that cannot be resolved through reason. It is the quintessential difference between "the left" and "the right."

 

[Citruscide]

With all due respect BB... I dont' think the Indian's enjoy a whole hell of alot. Sure, they get free college tuition at any state school in the country. And they get govenment money... but for the most part... are isolated on their reservations... and seldom, have a great desire to leave...

C-ditty

 

[bbkingpin]

 

[wyld1g]

It ain't my fault they were on our land before we got here...lololol

 

[AustinTX]

Sorry BB, I hate to agree with Hulkster on anything but you are way off base.

The indians did not understand their rights, they were largely migratory over large areas; sharing their land didn't have the same meaning it did for us. We forced them into concentration camp like surroundings, huge numbers were starved and frozen to death on the Trail of Tears. Also, most of the Indian Governors who agreed to the terms of "surrender" in the early 1900's were placed by pressure from the US govt and were 25% native american at most.

Reading some laws on the books does not tell you what really happened or give you any understanding of the actual events that transpired to make them happen. Saying the indians were screwed isn't anti-American or left wing propaganda, it is just simple fact.

 

[Skepticore]

An important distinction between American Indians and other races such as the aforementioned Chinese, Japanese, Irish, Africans, etc. is that PROPERTY was taken from the Indians in the form of land. I think this is what logically sets them apart in considering reparations such as land allotment. Americans didn't take slaves' land, just the people themselves. (We probably would have brought the land with us if we could have, but we couldn't, so the argument is that we don't owe them land.) We owe them freedom, which, as far as I know, has been paid equally to all who live in the U.S.

 

[bbkingpin]

Sorry BB, I hate to agree with Hulkster on anything but you are way off base.

The indians did not understand their rights, they were largely migratory over large areas; sharing their land didn't have the same meaning it did for us. We forced them into concentration camp like surroundings, huge numbers were starved and frozen to death on the Trail of Tears. Also, most of the Indian Governors who agreed to the terms of "surrender" in the early 1900's were placed by pressure from the US govt and were 25% native american at most.

Reading some laws on the books does not tell you what really happened or give you any understanding of the actual events that transpired to make them happen. Saying the indians were screwed isn't anti-American or left wing propaganda, it is just simple fact.

I never said that the Indians were not mistreated. I only defended the USA at present. I could cry about the English mistreatment of the Irish in Ireland or the English mistreatment of the American colonists or we could forgive the French now because of a friendship in the distant past. The point is: I am an American, England is our best ally, France is no longer a friend, and you guys have to stop living in the past. Do you think black Americans would rather be in Africa at present? We are never going to return the continental United States to the native Americans. What else can you do about the past? Hulkster is pissed because he cannot legally import steroids onto an Indian reservation -- sounds to me like one more white man (assuming he is white) trying to exploit the Indians' land. Hey Hulkster: I've seen domestic sources with better prices than International sources!

 

[HULKSTER]

I never said that the Indians were not mistreated. I only defended the USA at present. I could cry about the English mistreatment of the Irish in Ireland or the English mistreatment of the American colonists or we could forgive the French now because of a friendship in the distant past. The point is: I am an American, England is our best ally, France is no longer a friend, and you guys have to stop living in the past. Do you think black Americans would rather be in Africa at present? We are never going to return the continental United States to the native Americans. What else can you do about the past? Hulkster is pissed because he cannot legally import steroids onto an Indian reservation -- sounds to me like one more white man (assuming he is white) trying to exploit the Indians' land. Hey Hulkster: I've seen domestic sources with better prices than International sources!

So have I......