No sex....some advice please

[Wulfgar]

dullboy is always stunned by how open you are about past relationship "issues". most guys resist being so frank. dullboy respects you the nth degree for your forthrightness.

dullboy is a little older than you and would just like say that most women are suprisingly loyal to men. you seem to have had some bad experiences, but these situations tend to be more controlled by you than your sig other.

meaning that if you treat a girl "right", the odds are greatly in your favor that she'll remain loyal. treating a woman "right" doen't equal weakness. it just means being a good guy.

the issue that you need to be careful about is preemption. meaning that if you always conclude that a girl will cheat on you (based on past experience), you may take on self fufilling behavior that enables the girl to justify being unfaithfull to you.

Dullboy makes good points

I beleive that alot of my past relationships have been based on the archeatypes from my dad and his wives(6 of them). they were all gorgeous, and all emotionally fucked up. so growing up I ALWAYS was told how "women are unfaithful", "dont trust women"...etc.. i beleive this indoctrination went unoticed by me for a long time so in order to play out the exact things i DID NOT want to ahppen to me(i.e. what happened to my father) i have attracted the same type of women.
Interestingly enough i just came upon this relaization and have taken ownership for it very recently(like 2 months ago)

 

[TC2]

IN ABSOLUTELY NO WAY SHOULD YOU FOLLOW THIS ADVICE!!! For real, this is TERRIBLE advice. This type of approach is the root of all the issues we men have with American women - the spoiled little princess attitude.

What MM is saying is simply this - "your girl is upset for whatever reason - reward her for being upset and not communicating that in a mature, adult manner". It's ridiculous, nonsensical and quite amateurish as well.

no fucking shit...fuck all the hoops american women would have you jump through.

 

[musclemom]

Dullboy makes good points

I beleive that alot of my past relationships have been based on the archeatypes from my dad and his wives(6 of them). they were all gorgeous, and all emotionally fucked up. so growing up I ALWAYS was told how "women are unfaithful", "dont trust women"...etc.. i beleive this indoctrination went unoticed by me for a long time so in order to play out the exact things i DID NOT want to ahppen to me(i.e. what happened to my father) i have attracted the same type of women.
Interestingly enough i just came upon this relaization and have taken ownership for it very recently(like 2 months ago)

We learn what we live, Wulfgar, even if we are AWARE that what we lived was totally FUBAR.

With the exception of physical abuse, when I married my first husband I essentially was marrying my father: emotionally abusive and manipulative, jealous to the point of obsession, pathological liar, materialistic, etc. All of these were traits my father had possessed but I lied to myself about a lot of this stuff for a very long time. I was playing out all the exact same shit that I had seen my parents do.

I dunno, the older I get it the more it seems that life is nothing but a series of repeating cycles, that we keep getting presented with the same variables under a different set of circumstances until we learn to recognize the warning flags and break the cycle, like you said, owning our thoughts and actions.

 

[musclemom]

dullboy is loathe to agree with the cynics because you actually seem to care for this girl, but barring the recent use of anti-depressants, a sudden lack of interest in sex and passive aggresive behavior is an indicator of unfaithfullness. this actually supports musclemoms anecdotal experience. although she may not have cheated when she was unhappy in an existing relationship, most women will.

ergo, if you read the many posts dullboy has made concerning these sorts of matters, you'll understand that girls generally won't cheat unless they're unhappy or unfufilled an existing relationship.

dullboy has extensive clinical experience doing csw type stuff, which is why he chose to change professions. dullboy gets sad hearing about other peoples relationship issues.

I fully admit that I cheated in an unhappy relationship ... hindsight being 20/20 I also know, rationally, why I did it but also see no reason to justify my actions. My explanations would fall on deaf ears, and I'm condemned for my actions before I even start (the impartial judgement of dullboy and others aside). I've NEVER said my adultery was RIGHT, but I can honestly tell you there was a point in my life where there just didn't seem to BE any other option. If I could have gotten out of the marriage, I would have, but he threatened to kill himself if I left him, and I believed him. The fact is I had a child, a job that paid dirt, and NO friends or family to turn to for help (obsessed men generally don't like you to have friends and can do things to drive them away, I'm an only child with no extended family). When I told him I was taking a loan out to go to business school so I could quit janitorial work it triggered a two week fight. Shit, he wouldn't let us have a telephone for several years, I had to walk to a pay phone to call my mother once a week.

Long story short, when I had finally gotten into a position where I could afford to support myself and my child whether my ex lived or died, I divorced him.

 

[dullboy]

I fully admit that I cheated in an unhappy relationship ... hindsight being 20/20 I also know, rationally, why I did it but also see no reason to justify my actions. My explanations would fall on deaf ears, and I'm condemned for my actions before I even start (the impartial judgement of dullboy and others aside). I've NEVER said my adultery was RIGHT, but I can honestly tell you there was a point in my life where there just didn't seem to BE any other option. If I could have gotten out of the marriage, I would have, but he threatened to kill himself if I left him, and I believed him. The fact is I had a child, a job that paid dirt, and NO friends or family to turn to for help (obsessed men generally don't like you to have friends and can do things to drive them away, I'm an only child with no extended family). When I told him I was taking a loan out to go to business school so I could quit janitorial work it triggered a two week fight. Shit, he wouldn't let us have a telephone for several years, I had to walk to a pay phone to call my mother once a week.




Long story short, when I had finally gotten into a position where I could afford to support myself and my child whether my ex lived or died, I divorced him.

I'll step out of dullboy for this post because this is serious business...


I hope that I didn't offend you.

I was referring to your first post in this thread. I believe that you said not to listen to the guys who knee-jerkingly claimed that she was "fucking someone else".... that it wasn't necessarily the case that a woman is probably fucking someone else when they suddenly lose interest in sex and display passive aggresive behavior towards their s/o.

I just assumed that you projecting your own personal experience, that is to say that when when you were unhappy in past relationships (unfufilled is the more common term that women use), that you never "cheated".

women generally won't cheat until they feel that their relationship has no future. i'm sure that you'll agree that this was your case.


i've posted this 100 times and i'll post it again - when women cheat in a serious relationship - they generally aren't looking for "sex" so to speak.
they're generally looking to fufill and unfufilled emotional need.


guys cheat for sex.

 

[Wulfgar]

Its an interesting argument. Cheating because of unfullfillemtn vs. cheating for sex.
What happens if you cheat because you are unfulfilled sexually? Isnt that basically the same thing.
My ex-fiance claimed she was having sex with other men because @ the time I was preparing for a BBing contest. My sex drive was low because I was exhausted most of the time. Apparantly she told the guys she was cheating with "she just needed more cock than what i was giving her". so in essence she was cheating for sex right? or was she unfullfilled? or both? Rasies alot of questions of why cheaters cheat. Unfullfillment and sex aside, its an addiction IMHO. Adultery is exciting, fun, secretive, new, dangerous, etc.... i beleive these are really are the true motivations that cheaters use but most are afraid to admit. No one wants to admit they are intrinsically "bad people" because of things they do. So the ego will make up a bunch of BS to justify thier actions which obviously served them a purpose(i.e. unfullfillment, sex, happiness..ect..). It is amzing, people tha are ruled by the impetuisness of the childish ego mind dont care who or what they have to destroy to achieve it's "goals". Why is it so hard to just break it off with someone B4 the transgressions are commited? The 5 minute conversation and hurt would save years of pain, betrayal, unhappiness and regret.

 

[musclemom]

I'll step out of dullboy for this post because this is serious business...


I hope that I didn't offend you.

... .

Oh you're so sweet no-no-no-no, no offense at all, in my little vent up there ... I have been judged (not by you but others) because of what I did ... as I said, I've never claimed it was RIGHT I just felt at that time/space/place there WERE no other options.

I just assumed that you projecting your own personal experience, that is to say that when when you were unhappy in past relationships (unfufilled is the more common term that women use), that you never "cheated".

women generally won't cheat until they feel that their relationship has no future. i'm sure that you'll agree that this was your case.

i've posted this 100 times and i'll post it again - when women cheat in a serious relationship - they generally aren't looking for "sex" so to speak.
they're generally looking to fufill and unfufilled emotional need.

guys cheat for sex.

Honey I can't say it better ... seriously. It's a concept that a lot of men don't understand, though, that sex for (most) women is first emotional/psychological THEN physical.

I cheated because I was trapped in a relationship with a person that (intentionally or not), eroded my ego/personal value/self respect 24/7. I was married to a man who made me feel VERY bad about myself, and perhaps even worse DOUBT myself and my own attractiveness, every day, and since I couldn't get AWAY from him I sought approval from other men.

 

[Wulfgar]

Oh you're so sweet no-no-no-no, no offense at all, in my little vent up there ... I have been judged (not by you but others) because of what I did ... as I said, I've never claimed it was RIGHT I just felt at that time/space/place there WERE no other options.


Honey I can't say it better ... seriously. It's a concept that a lot of men don't understand, though, that sex for (most) women is first emotional/psychological THEN physical.

I cheated because I was trapped in a relationship with a person that (intentionally or not), eroded my ego/personal value/self respect 24/7. I was married to a man who made me feel VERY bad about myself, and perhaps even worse DOUBT myself and my own attractiveness, every day, and since I couldn't get AWAY from him I sought approval from other men.

MM, please understand i am not passing judgement on you or anyone, u did what u felt was the ONLY thing you could do in the current position, and I understand that but i do have some thoughts on the topic. This is kinda more geared toward pople in general and thier methods of handling stressful situations.
U know as well as I do there are ALWAYS other options. And there are no accidents in this world. To say that someone "made" you feel a certain way and "drove" you into bed with an other man shows a lack of self-determinism. I beleive instead of denoting blame on others we should ourselves take responsibility and teach others to be more responsible for thier actions.
Self-Determined people think and act rationally in ANY given situation. Those that let thier lives be determined by outside sources(such as the beleifes and views of other people, religions, societies, groups etc..) tend to act with reaction to situations. It truly is a grave disservice to everyone
I sincerly hope that as the planet becomes more and more enlightened we start seeing more Self and Co-Determined people and less reactionary Other-Determined individuals.

 

[dullboy]

Its an interesting argument. Cheating because of unfullfillemtn vs. cheating for sex.
What happens if you cheat because you are unfulfilled sexually? Isnt that basically the same thing.
My ex-fiance claimed she was having sex with other men because @ the time I was preparing for a BBing contest. My sex drive was low because I was exhausted most of the time. Apparantly she told the guys she was cheating with "she just needed more cock than what i was giving her". so in essence she was cheating for sex right? or was she unfullfilled? or both? Rasies alot of questions of why cheaters cheat. Unfullfillment and sex aside, its an addiction IMHO. Adultery is exciting, fun, secretive, new, dangerous, etc.... i beleive these are really are the true motivations that cheaters use but most are afraid to admit. No one wants to admit they are intrinsically "bad people" because of things they do. So the ego will make up a bunch of BS to justify thier actions which obviously served them a purpose(i.e. unfullfillment, sex, happiness..ect..). It is amzing, people tha are ruled by the impetuisness of the childish ego mind dont care who or what they have to destroy to achieve it's "goals". Why is it so hard to just break it off with someone B4 the transgressions are commited? The 5 minute conversation and hurt would save years of pain, betrayal, unhappiness and regret.

too many issues here for me address now - but i do have answers to some of your questions.

it's possible, although unlikely, that the cause of your fiance being so unfaithful was that she was clinically "hypersexual".

hypersxuality in females is generally associated with some some of chemical addiction - (was she a drug user - specifically, cocaine?)

hypersexual behavior generally occurs during periods of depression as a result of cocaine use.


the other possibility (though much less likely) is that she suffered some other comorbid condition such as severe ocd.


before i continue - did either of these conditions exist?

 

[Gymgurl]

Its an interesting argument. Cheating because of unfullfillemtn vs. cheating for sex.
What happens if you cheat because you are unfulfilled sexually? Isnt that basically the same thing.
My ex-fiance claimed she was having sex with other men because @ the time I was preparing for a BBing contest. My sex drive was low because I was exhausted most of the time. Apparantly she told the guys she was cheating with "she just needed more cock than what i was giving her". so in essence she was cheating for sex right? or was she unfullfilled? or both? Rasies alot of questions of why cheaters cheat. Unfullfillment and sex aside, its an addiction IMHO. Adultery is exciting, fun, secretive, new, dangerous, etc.... i beleive these are really are the true motivations that cheaters use but most are afraid to admit. No one wants to admit they are intrinsically "bad people" because of things they do. So the ego will make up a bunch of BS to justify thier actions which obviously served them a purpose(i.e. unfullfillment, sex, happiness..ect..). It is amzing, people tha are ruled by the impetuisness of the childish ego mind dont care who or what they have to destroy to achieve it's "goals". Why is it so hard to just break it off with someone B4 the transgressions are commited? The 5 minute conversation and hurt would save years of pain, betrayal, unhappiness and regret.

Very good insight