My HST Journal...for mass

[JohnnyCoho]

Seen some good and not so good coments on HST over time and it may or may not be for everyone,..but it definately works for me. Started my 4th HST Cycle on Monday the 29th of Nov.

Thought I'd start a journal on this cycle to show both my progress on it and perhaps get some good feed-back from those a bit more knowledgeable on HST to help refine it a bit more for me.

I have modified a couple of things in the routine already to meet more specific body needs for myself, like doing Needsize's AB routine and Nelson Montana's Calf routine, but still adding progressive loads to both.

STATS as of 11-29-04:

Age - 36
Weight - 209
Height - 6' 3"
BF % - 12-14

BODY MEASUREMENTS:

Chest - 45"
Bi's - right = 18 1/4, left = 18
waist - 36
belly - 36.5
neck - 17 1/2
Quads - (dont laugh now) 25" Left & Right
Calves - (ok, really dont laugh now) 16 1/2 Right & 16 1/4 Left
(* I've got some long ass legs and they've been harder than hell to add mass to. I wont even tell ya where they were 3 years ago, but they are growing)

I'll post my current diet on one of my off days

I've stuck to the 15, 10 & 5 rep ranges for each cycle (why change whats been working) All 15, 10 & 5 rep maxes for all excercises were established previously.

Started 15's on Monday 11-29-04 after a 9 day deconditioning period from last HST cycle.

Day 1

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- DEADLIFT WU, then 1 X 15 X 205lbs

- LEG PRESS 1 X 15 X 360lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X 45lbs

- INCLINE DB PRESS 1 X 15 X 35lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 8lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 1 X 15 X 15lbs

- CHINS WG 1 X 15 X BW

- CHINS NG 1 X 15 X 20lbs

- REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 5lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 1 X 15 X 55lbs

- SHRUGS 1 X 15 X 155lbs

- ROPE HMR CURLS 1 X 15 X 40lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 75lbs

- NEEDSIZE AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 10lbs

NOTES:
- Since all weights start off super light, form and slow negs are everything, just goin for the burn.
- Deads were done as 15 singles, 1 rep, reset, than another rep. Deads are my favorites and have added the most mass to my back!! Being really long legged all deads for me are done sumo style.
- It seems crazy to me that my calves are almost a full two inches smaller than my Bi's but I guess the genetics just arent there and my calves seem to be responding best to higher reps and not higher weight.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Day 1 was on Monday, Tuesday off, Day 2 Wednesday.

Didn't want to post both Monday and Wednesdays routine all at once so here's yesterdays.

Day 2

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- SQUAT WU, 1 X 15 X 145lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 1 X 15 X 180lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X 50lbs

- BENCH PRESS WU, 1 X 15 X 175lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 10lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 1 X 15 X 20lbs

- ROWS WG 1 X 15 X 160lbs

- ROWS NG 1 X 15 X 180lbs

- REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 8lbs

- TRI DIPS 1 X 15 X 70lbs

- SHRUGS 1 X 15 X 165lbs

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 1 X 15 X 55lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 80lbs

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 10lbs

NOTES:
-WU is for warm ups usually starting with just the bar, then progressively adding weight to reach working weight. Usually around 3 - 5 sets for WU
- TRI DIPS are done with hands on one bench, weight in lap feet set a bit higher on Roman Chair
- BI CMBR BAR CURLS are done standing with elbows to side and grip far out on camber bar, pinkies up.
- little sore in traps, lats and abs today (thanks Needsize)
- Squats are my weak link! Developed bad form a long time ago and had a bitch of a time correcting it. They're getting better now though.
-Once again weights still feel reall light but stressing the negs and form and goin for the burn

 

[Allon]

That's great man, keep posting!!

I am doing my first HST cycle and I have has some troubles. Don't you find doing so many warm ups cause a bit too much volume on your routine as it is three times a week for each muscle group? (However you are doing only 1 set per EX and I am doing 2 so maybe thats all the difference)
I noticed you are alternating exersizes, on the days, have you tried any cycles not doing that?
My biggest problem so far with HST was the fact that the weights were really low the first 3 workouts and then the last 3 they are all nearing and reaching max so the second week is a bit too hardcore...

 

[halfaclue]

That's great man, keep posting!!

I am doing my first HST cycle and I have has some troubles. Don't you find doing so many warm ups cause a bit too much volume on your routine as it is three times a week for each muscle group? (However you are doing only 1 set per EX and I am doing 2 so maybe thats all the difference)
I noticed you are alternating exersizes, on the days, have you tried any cycles not doing that?
My biggest problem so far with HST was the fact that the weights were really low the first 3 workouts and then the last 3 they are all nearing and reaching max so the second week is a bit too hardcore...

I start with legs and then go to back..i only do warm ups sets for squats and sldl's..by then i am warmed up for everything else

 

[casualbb]

You start out with bodyweight pullups in your 15's?!? can you do +50 pounds for 15? otherwise I'd shy away from starting the pullups so high

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Allon;

Basically like halfaclue said, You'll notice in my routine that I only do Warm Ups for Deads on Dead day but then on Squat day I'll do both a Warm up for both Squats and Bench. Deads already get the blood goin good for me in my shoulders, lats and legs and everywhere else so after doing them I'm pretty well warmed up for the rest of my routine. On Squat day I find my shoulders, tris and lats need a little more warming up after working through my legs.

Everyone I know thats now tried HST says the same thing about the weights being so light when first starting and they are. Ya just need to concentrate on form, feeling the weight & getting the squeeze, also go for the burn and go slow on yer negs.

I've tried doing 2 sets in my 15's but found that 1 works best for me in the get-go. I will be doing 2 sets during my 10's then 3 sets in my 5's.

As far as alternating excersise go, yes my first cycle through HST I used the same excersises every workout throughout the entire program. What you see above is pretty much my staple now. I'll alternate the 2 workouts for the whole program. Still hitting the all my muscle groups with some minor altering. Again, its what works for me.

Only thing I dont like about the 15's (actually not that I dont like them cause I know they do somthin for me) is the 15's wind the snot outta me. Next week when the weights are upped a bit is when it hits me the hardest, especially on Squats (brings me to the puking stage)

 

[JohnnyCoho]

You start out with bodyweight pullups in your 15's?!? can you do +50 pounds for 15? otherwise I'd shy away from starting the pullups so high

Not completely understanding here Casual. What do ya mean?

No, I cant do wide grip pull-ups for 15 with 50lbs. Wish I could
Max for wide grip on 15's is 15lbs for me without any rest or spot. Max in my 5's is 45lbs for 3 sets of 5, with rest interval between sets being what it takes my training partner to complete one of his sets.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12-3-04

Day 3

Start with only 5 minutes walking treadmill today at highest incline for warm-up followed by Swiss Ball stretching.

- DEADLIFT WU, then 1 X 15 X 210lbs

- LEG PRESS 1 X 15 X 370lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X 55lbs

- INCLINE DB PRESS 1 X 15 X 40lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 12lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 1 X 15 X 25lbs

- CHINS WG 1 X 15 X 10

- CHINS NG 1 X 15 X 25lbs

- REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 10lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 1 X 15 X 60lbs

- SHRUGS 1 X 15 X 175lbs

- ROPE HMR CURLS 1 X 15 X 45lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 85lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 45lbs

NOTES:
- Body Weight still unchanged at 209
- Felt a little tired today from work & really thirtsy for some reason (drank 2 gallons of water over the day) but overall another good workout.

Think I'll go have another glass of water

 

[Allon]

That makes sense, the only muscle I think I would still need to do a slight warmup for is calves, like one light 15 rep set on the 10 and 5 rep weeks.

On the lighter days (first 3 workouts of each cycle) doing slow negatives would make it harder, and it makes sense too but my main problem is that it works out I am doing one week of easy workouts and then 1 week of hard workouts, eben though 4 and 5 are not max, they are still hard enough to cause muscle fatigue so I guess what I am saying is, 1 week is extremely easy and thenn the second week is suddenly hardcore of workinging out each body part three times in the week... I know HST works, but it is just a bit strange the way one week is easy and the next so hardcore...

BTW, I know this is your HST journal so if you want to discuss general HST issues in another thread just say so as I don't wanna hijack your thread

 

[JohnnyCoho]

That makes sense, the only muscle I think I would still need to do a slight warmup for is calves, like one light 15 rep set on the 10 and 5 rep weeks.

On the lighter days (first 3 workouts of each cycle) doing slow negatives would make it harder, and it makes sense too but my main problem is that it works out I am doing one week of easy workouts and then 1 week of hard workouts, eben though 4 and 5 are not max, they are still hard enough to cause muscle fatigue so I guess what I am saying is, 1 week is extremely easy and thenn the second week is suddenly hardcore of workinging out each body part three times in the week... I know HST works, but it is just a bit strange the way one week is easy and the next so hardcore...

BTW, I know this is your HST journal so if you want to discuss general HST issues in another thread just say so as I don't wanna hijack your thread

Brah', questions are good, keep em' comin' maybe we can learn somthing from each other.

Question for you; What increments are you going up on on yer lifts. Load should be prgressive yes, but while one week may be easy the whole second week shouldn't be overly hard until yer max day. Ya might wanna drop yer increments in your 15's a bit.

For me it seems my 15 max's are around 45 - 50% of my 5 rep maxes on compound excersises. Little less on the others.

Warm up on yer calves???? Dont ya walk on them all day long?

 

[casualbb]

I'm saying you started at too high a weight on pullups, there's no room for progression

 

[JohnnyCoho]

I'm saying you started at too high a weight on pullups, there's no room for progression

WG Chins go up 5 lbs every day I work them Casual,..all the way up to my 3 sets of 5 to 45 lbs in the 5's. You'll notice I switch out between WG & NG Chins to WG & NG Rows every other workout,..so it is a progressive load without any zig zagging.

 

[casualbb]

well alrighty then

 

[Allon]

My increments are different on all exersizes. About 3-6 pounds though on most. The 15's was ridiculous as I was doing such light weight on the first 3 workouts that it just felt there was no point. (for instance 7 pounds for skull crushes in the first workout)

Sure warm up calves, I walk on them all day long but I go real heavy on the raises and I really need to work my way up to it on the 10's and 5's.

I am actually beggining to beleive that I should wait until all my lifts are heavier in general until I do HST again.... just so I can have more to play with on the increments, with some of the exersizes anyway.....

 

[JohnnyCoho]

My increments are different on all exersizes. About 3-6 pounds though on most. The 15's was ridiculous as I was doing such light weight on the first 3 workouts that it just felt there was no point. (for instance 7 pounds for skull crushes in the first workout)

Sure warm up calves, I walk on them all day long but I go real heavy on the raises and I really need to work my way up to it on the 10's and 5's.

I am actually beggining to beleive that I should wait until all my lifts are heavier in general until I do HST again.... just so I can have more to play with on the increments, with some of the exersizes anyway.....

The 15's were meant to be light Brah', here's somthing for ya directly from the HST Program:

"The 15s in HST"

"Before you give up completely on the 15 rep range, try lowering the weight... The 15s will accomplish what they are designed to even if the weight isn't that heavy. It just has to burn like the "dickens". So, slow down the pace, squeeze and stretch, and try to enjoy them. You should feel tired afterwards, but there isn't any real benefit (size wise) from killing yourself.

The 15s are designed to condition your tendons for the upcoming heavy loads. During the first 2 weeks of 15s, you are only going for intense burning. You want the kind of burn that starts small but then by the end of the set you can hardly bear it. Do whatever it takes to both get this burn, as well as increase the weight every workout. Manipulate the tempo, use hold-flex methods, or any other method to make the set "effective", meaning mechanically taxing on the muscle. But remember, fatigue is not the goal, a deep aching sensation in the muscle itself is the goal.

The "high rep" training is only there to prepare joints and tendons for future heavy loading. Flushing tissue with lactate stimulates angiogenesis and stimulates tendon growth. (Hunt TK, Hussain MZ. Can wound healing be a paradigm for tissue repair? Med Sci Sports Exerc. 1994 Jun;26(6):755-8.) The 15s are designed simply to flush all tissues and joints (as far as possible) with lactate to encourage angeogenesis for blood flow and tendon growth to better endure subsequent heavy loads (e.g. 5s and negatives)"

As far as "waiting until all your lifts are heavier in general until you do HST again"... Ya gotta figure out your goals first. Is your goal to gain more strength or add mass?

Whats been working for me personally is using HST for adding Mass with a side effect of gaining some strength as well (through my last HST cycle it seemed like a ton of strength. Even broke some of my old PRs when doing my negatives for my last two weeks) and then when I feel like I need some more Strength I'll switch to a Westside Routine for 10 weeks using bands and chains and as a side effect there, gain some mass as well.

Like I said earlier, my personal goal right now is to find my genetic limits and see how big I can get naturally and HST seems to be doing that for me right now.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Monday 12 - 6 -04

Weight up 3 pounds weighing 212 today

Current intake is;
- 220 Grams of Protein (880 calories)
- 87 Grams of fat (783 Calories)
- 485 Grams of Carbs (1937 calories)
Total caloric intake is 3600 calories currently

Supps taken include:
- Multi Vitamin
- 2 tblspns Flax Oil, 4 Grams Fish Oil (makes up 32 grams of my fat intake)
- 400 IU's Vitamin E (before bed)
- 1000 MG extra Vitamin C (before bed)
- Glucosamine / Chondroitin
- Whey Protein shakes (3 times per day, last shake just before bed)

TODAYS WORKOUT:

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- SQUAT WU, 1 X 15 X 160lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 1 X 15 X 190lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X 60lbs

- BENCH PRESS WU, 1 X 15 X 190lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 15lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 1 X 15 X 30lbs

- ROWS WG 1 X 15 X 170lbs

- ROWS NG 1 X 15 X 190lbs

- REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 15lbs

- TRI DIPS 1 X 15 X 75lbs

- SHRUGS 1 X 15 X 185lbs

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 1 X 15 X 60lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 90lbs

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 15lbs

NOTES:
_ One of those days where everything just felt "ON"... Great concentration, form felt great, felt the squeeze & burn, and weight felt great!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12-8-04

Day 5

Start with only 5 minutes walking treadmill today at highest incline for warm-up followed by Swiss Ball stretching and some core work.

- DEADLIFT WU, then 1 X 15 X 225lbs

- LEG PRESS 1 X 15 X 380lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X 65lbs

- INCLINE DB PRESS 1 X 15 X 45lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 15lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 1 X 15 X 35lbs

- CHINS WG 1 X 15 X 15lbs

- CHINS NG 1 X 15 X 30lbs

- REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 20lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 1 X 15 X 65lbs

- SHRUGS 1 X 15 X 195lbs

- ROPE HMR CURLS 1 X 15 X 50lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 95lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 50lbs

NOTES:
- Another day with a good over-all feeling!!
- Body Weight today 215, weight is on the way up and I dont think its fat.
- Today was my 15 rep max for Deads and Verical Leg Press. Both as usual winded the snot outta me but didn't feel all that heavy.
- Deads once again were done as 15 single reps. I think this is important to do a single rep, squeeze it out at the top, reset then go again. Keeps my mind on form and the lift. See guys all the time at the gym doing Deads for multiple reps and almost bouncing the weight off the floor...just doesn't look good on form.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Day 6

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- SQUAT WU, 1 X 15 X 175lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 1 X 15 X 200lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X 70lbs

- BENCH PRESS WU, 1 X 15 X 205lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 20lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 1 X 15 X 40lbs

- ROWS WG 1 X 15 X 180lbs

- ROWS NG 1 X 15 X 200lbs

- REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 20lbs

- TRI DIPS 1 X 15 X 80lbs

- SHRUGS 1 X 15 X 205lbs

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 1 X 15 X 65lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 100lbs

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 25lbs

NOTES:
- Last day of 15's. Neither todays or Day 5 felt like 15 maxes. Need to up that definately more for next cycle

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12-13-04 (first Day of 10's)

Day 7

Start with only 5 minutes walking treadmill today at highest incline for warm-up followed by Swiss Ball stretching and some core work.

- DEADLIFT WU, then 2 X 10 X 250lbs

- LEG PRESS 2 X 10 X 400lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 2 X 10 X 75lbs

- INCLINE DB PRESS 2 X 10 X 60lbs

- DB FLYES 2 X 10 X 20lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 2 X 10 X 45lbs

- CHINS WG 2 X 10 X 20lbs

- CHINS NG 2 X 10 X 40lbs

- REAR DELTS 2 X 10 X 20lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 2 X 10 X 65lbs

- SHRUGS 2 X 10 X 215lbs

- ROPE HMR CURLS 2 X 10 X 65lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 100lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 55lbs

NOTES:
- First day of 10's,....FELT GREAT!!! Feelin really pumped right now!!

 

[kingc_79]

nice man...have some karma for taking the time to post this and sharing with everyone. i was actually thinkin of tryin hst type routine but i'm tryin to figure out a way to do it and incorporate events on sundays again..

keep em comin man

 

[JohnnyCoho]

nice man...have some karma for taking the time to post this and sharing with everyone. i was actually thinkin of tryin hst type routine but i'm tryin to figure out a way to do it and incorporate events on sundays again..

keep em comin man

Thanks King!! K back at ya

Can't say I totally have the HST program down to a "T" yet and am always learning more myself. Just a program that has works well for me for adding mass.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Usually dont see much growth in the 15's but decided to take measurments "cold" over the weekend before starting my 10's. Usually see the best growth in the later part of the 10's, the 5's and especially during negs after the 5's.

Original Stats (Cut & Pasted from start) when begining the 15's:

STATS as of 11-29-04:

Age - 36
Weight - 209
Height - 6' 3"
BF % - 12-14

BODY MEASUREMENTS:

Chest - 45"
Bi's - right = 18 1/4, left = 18
waist - 36
belly - 36.5
neck - 17 1/2
Quads - (dont laugh now) 25" Left & Right
Calves - (ok, really dont laugh now) 16 1/2 Right & 16 1/4 Left

Here's Stats after the 15's:

STATS as of 12-12-04:

Age - 36
Weight - 215 (weight up 6 lbs)
Height - 6' 3"
BF % - 12-14

BODY MEASUREMENTS:

Chest - 45" (unchanged)
Bi's - right = 18 1/4, left = 18 1/4 (balanced out Bi's)
waist - 35 (down an inch, almost no fat here at all now)
belly - 36.5 (35 cut an inch here too)
neck - 17 1/2 (unchanged)
Quads - 26" Left & Right (Usually dont see much growth during the 15's at all, but added an inch here!!?!?!?!?)
Calves - 16 1/2 Right & 16 1/4 Left (unchanged)

 

[casualbb]

holy shit man, you gained 6 pounds and lost fat?

I'll have what he's having...

 

[JohnnyCoho]

holy shit man, you gained 6 pounds and lost fat?

I'll have what he's having...

Dont really understand it myself Casual,..its gotta be all in the legs. (which is good for me) Only body part really to grow much during the 15's. Had to check the scale twice to make sure. Yup,..6 pounds...Johnny like!!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12-15-04

Day 8

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- SQUAT WU, 2 X 10 X 205lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 2 X 10 X 210lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 2 X 10 X 80lbs

- BENCH PRESS WU, 2 X 10 X 205lbs

- DB FLYES 2 X 10 X 25lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 2 X 10 X 50lbs

- ROWS WG 2 X 10 X 190lbs

- ROWS NG 2 X 10 X 210lbs

- REAR DELTS 2 X 10 X 25lbs

- TRI DIPS 2 X 10 X 85lbs

- SHRUGS 2 X 10 X 225lbs

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 2 X 10 X 70lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 110lbs

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 25lbs

NOTES:
- Everything almost felt a little too light tonight, was almost to easy to concentrate on form and the squeeze and could actually count the seconds on the neg. Will most likely start adding a few drop sets starting on Monday.

 

[JKurz1]

Will you post your daily diet?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Will you post your daily diet?

JKurz Daily diet looks somthing like this during the week. Sundays are cheat days.

Meal 1 6:30AM

- 9 egg whites / 2 yokes
- 2 cups oatmeal
- 1 piece of fruit
- 1 tbs Flax

Meal 2 10:00AM

- 6oz can of tuna in water
- 2 cups rice
- 2 Grams fish oil

Meal 3 12:00 Noon

- 8oz ground elk, deer or beef
- 2 cups rice

Meal 4 2:00PM

- 8oz Salmon
- 1 lg potato
- 1/2 cup low sugar fruit

Meal 5 4:00 PM (pre workout)

- Pro Complex (2 scoops)

Post workout Meal

- Pro Complex (2 Scoops)

Meal 6 6:00Pm

- Chicken
- 6 oz Peas, Spinach or Broccoli
- 3 slices whole grain bread
- Pro Complex (3 scoops)
- 2 Grams Fish Oil

Totals =
220 - 300 Grams of Protein 880 - 1000 Calories
87 Fat 783 Calories
485 Carbs for 1940 Calories

1 + Gallons of water per day

No eating after 7:00PM

Not super strict on diet though and I will fudge a bit adding more protein like eating Deer, or Elk for dinner rather than Chicken. Sometimes (lately) I'll add some elk or deer to my eggs in the morning. And also for Meal 2 will have an all natty Peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread for a change now and then.

 

[JKurz1]

Looks solid bro...you should get one more meal in PW....3 hour window is PRIME TIME to stuff those muscles.......

The nix the late night eating is an old myth...I'd think youd benefit even more with a low gi carb, some healthy fats and some mo protein!

 

[JKurz1]

ggood stuff though..have some K....

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Looks solid bro...you should get one more meal in PW....3 hour window is PRIME TIME to stuff those muscles.......

The nix the late night eating is an old myth...I'd think youd benefit even more with a low gi carb, some healthy fats and some mo protein!

JKurz,

Have read some sound diet advice from ya in the past, so advice is much apreciated,... K to ya!!

What do ya mean by one more meal PW,..examples?

As far as more protein goes I have been adding some in early AM or with dinner by subbing in some elk & deer as indicated in my meal plan (got a dandy 5 X 5 elk this season and a nice deer as well so freezer is stuffed with protein, lots of salmon too)

 

[JKurz1]

I mean get another meal in around 8pm....what time do you crash? It can be as light as some cottage cheese, tb of ANPB and a casein shake.....or have some oats and a shake...or have your ANPB sandwhich on whole wheat here..........point being, your body is still craving those nutrients PW........

 

[JohnnyCoho]

I mean get another meal in around 8pm....what time do you crash? It can be as light as some cottage cheese, tb of ANPB and a casein shake.....or have some oats and a shake...or have your ANPB sandwhich on whole wheat here..........point being, your body is still craving those nutrients PW........

Thanks JKurz!!! Dunno about the eating after 7:00PM for me though,..I'm usually in bed by around 9 or so. Maybe I'll up my intake a bit with dinner.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12 - 17 -04

Day 9

Was running a little late today so just stretched out on Swiss Ball before beginning workout.

- DEADLIFT WU, then 2 X 10 X 275lbs

- LEG PRESS 2 X 10 X 425lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 2 X 10 X 85lbs See Notes or thread "Gym's Most embarrising moment"

- INCLINE DB PRESS 2 X 10 X 70lbs

- DB FLYES 2 X 10 X 30lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 2 X 10 X 55lbs

- CHINS WG 2 X 10 X 25lbs

- CHINS NG 2 X 10 X 45lbs

- REAR DELTS 2 X 10 X 25lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 2 X 10 X 70lbs

- SHRUGS 2 X 10 X 235lbs

- ROPE HMR CURLS 2 X 10 X 70lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 120lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 60lbs

NOTES:
- NOTE TO SELF: "No more Pre-workout shakes on drive to gym!!" Hurled it up on GHR's right in front of two hotties.
- Over-all even with all the post hurl laughter it was a good workout.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Firstly Mr. Coho, would you mind making a thread posting your results from the first through third HST cycles?

Second, I noticed your macro breakdown is basically the same as mine. 21% fat, 25% protein, and the rest carbs. Rough estimates, but that's where we both stand. Good to see you're not stressing the protein intake to a point where it's useless.

Third, I wouldn't have a whey protein shake before bed. Have tuna. High levels of tryptophan - put you to sleep easier.

Fourth, elk sounds good for some reason. Please send me some.

Fifth, if you're in this for a bodybuilding purpose, using progressive resistance with abs isn't the best idea. Especially not if you're using HST frequency and aesthetics is a concern. Don't want those bulky, wide, platform-like abs, do you? I'd keep the taper wider by keeping the waist more slender. Give the illusion of having a bigger lat spread.

 

[JKurz1]

bro...I eat cottage cheese and peanuts with a casein shake about 1 minute before I crash...still maintain 6%bf when Im cutting.............

 

[Tom Treutlein]

I just meant that whey will digest too quick. Your pre-bed meal sounds more than adequate, J.

 

[JKurz1]

I just meant that whey will digest too quick. Your pre-bed meal sounds more than adequate, J.

No, I know...I was talking to our man who is afraid to eat before bed...don't sweat it bro.......you got 7-8 hours of recovering to do, feed your machine with nutrients!!!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Firstly Mr. Coho, would you mind making a thread posting your results from the first through third HST cycles?

Second, I noticed your macro breakdown is basically the same as mine. 21% fat, 25% protein, and the rest carbs. Rough estimates, but that's where we both stand. Good to see you're not stressing the protein intake to a point where it's useless.

Third, I wouldn't have a whey protein shake before bed. Have tuna. High levels of tryptophan - put you to sleep easier.

Fourth, elk sounds good for some reason. Please send me some.

Fifth, if you're in this for a bodybuilding purpose, using progressive resistance with abs isn't the best idea. Especially not if you're using HST frequency and aesthetics is a concern. Don't want those bulky, wide, platform-like abs, do you? I'd keep the taper wider by keeping the waist more slender. Give the illusion of having a bigger lat spread.

T.T.

1 When I can find the resaluts from my previous 3 HST cycles I will post them for ya. But can assure you now, I didn't know half of what I do now about HST.

2. While some good advice from both you and jkurz,..I think I'll stick with what I'm doing now. It works for me, and my body is responding well. What ya both gotta realize too is that at 36 yrs old now, my body seems to like to store fat for some reason, especially if I eat somthing just before bed. I dont think its craving for more nutrients at the current moment and when I feel it may be I will add more to my diet.

3. Elk is really good TT!!! Dont think it would keep well mailing some from one coast to the other and all the jerky I've made from it has already been mailed to relatives for the holidays.

4. Not in HST for the body building purpose right now. Current goal is to find my genetic limits all natty right now and see just how big I can get. Already have a pretty good lat spread TT,.. weighted AB work seems to be what my body responds to best right now so I'm gonna stick with that for now.

Thanks Brah',...K to ya!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Firstly Mr. Coho, would you mind making a thread posting your results from the first through third HST cycles?

TT,..still haven't located old measurements from past 3 HST programs. Did first two and made some good progress then went on a Westside Routine for awhile before I got back to my 3rd and now 4th cycle of HST.

Did take some pics pre-4th cycle though and would post them for ya or anyone else if someone could clue me in to "how"

How does one put pics in his or her "gallery" on here?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12-20-04

Day 10

Body Weight 211

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- SQUAT WU, 2 X 10 X 225lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 2 X 10 X 220lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 2 X 10 X 90lbs

- BENCH PRESS WU, 2 X 10 X 225lbs

- DB FLYES 2 X 10 X 25lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 2 X 10 X 55lbs

- ROWS WG 2 X 10 X 200lbs

- ROWS NG 2 X 10 X 220lbs

- DB REAR DELTS 2 X 10 X 25lbs

- TRI DIPS 2 X 10 X 90lbs
(did 2 TRI DIP drop sets after 2nd set, 1 X 20 X 85lbs then 1 X 15 X 80lbs)

- SHRUGS 2 X 10 X 245lbs
(did 3 Shrug drop sets after 2nd set, 1 X 15 X 235, 1 X 15 X 225lbs)

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 2 X 10 X 70lbs
(added 2 sets of 10 seated DB curls with 35lbers)

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 130lbs

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 30lbs

NOTES:
- We started adding drop sets tonight on excercises where we felt metabolic demands on the muscle tissue in certain areas dropped. While HST is not known as a strength building program it certainly does add strength with me personally, hence the drop sets for further hypertrophy.

 

[cwc73]

Can you explain what exatcly a drop set is? I saw it on the Hst site, but I really didn't understand what it is and what it is used for.
thanks,
cwc

 

[jstrick2]

I noticed you swap out exercises a bit. Do you like this a lot?

Particularly the INcl Bench. I notice you switch between dumbbells and barbell. Is this optimal for progressive load? Would it be better to do something like this with dumbbells:

35, 35, 40, 40, 45, 45

or switch it around like you have?

I am also doing HST and just asking for fine tuning ideas

Jake

 

[Tom Treutlein]

No reason to switch things up like that. In fact, that could be seen as counter-productive if you aren't causing the same amount of tension on the muscle tissue to follow ahead of the RBE.

Well, I guess if you're using the same weight it's not a big deal, but I wouldn't swap whole exercises (i.e., bench press for dips).

 

[JKurz1]

No reason to switch things up like that. In fact, that could be seen as counter-productive if you aren't causing the same amount of tension on the muscle tissue to follow ahead of the RBE.

Well, I guess if you're using the same weight it's not a big deal, but I wouldn't swap whole exercises (i.e., bench press for dips).

youve learned a lot at such a young age bro...seriously....you've done your researched and LISTENED! Props!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Can you explain what exatcly a drop set is? I saw it on the Hst site, but I really didn't understand what it is and what it is used for.
thanks,
cwc

This is taken directly from the HST site for your understanding cwc:

"Drop Sets: At the beginning of an HST cycle you will be using a weight you can do 15 reps with. After proper deconditioning this will induce “some” hypertrophy, but after about 2 weeks the load will be insufficient to induce any further growth. At this time the load must be increased in order to get further growth.

Due to the inverse relationship between load and reps/volume (i.e. the heavier it is, the fewer times you can lift it) you have to reduce the volume as the weight gets progressively heavier. As you reduce the volume, the metabolic demands on the muscle tissue drop as well. This reduces the activity of a signaling protein called ERK 1/2 which is known to facilitate hypertrophy. Some very interesting research has evolved in the last 2 years that demonstrate the value of hypoxic stress during muscular work with respect to hypertrophy.

So the question becomes, how do I continue to increase the weight over time, and not decrease the activity of ERK ½? Well, you can either put on a tourniquet before each set, or you can do a drop set.

Now a drop set doesn’t mean 1 set of reps. It means “repping-out” with lighter weight after your work-set. But in order to be a true drop set, you don’t rest after the work set. You perform your desired number of reps, in this case lets say 5. Then you immediately strip some weight from the bar and keep going without resting. Normally, you will strip the weight twice before “calling it good”. All the reps performed, including the work reps, should reach about 15-20 to create a real metabolic environment inside the cell sufficient to activate ERK1/2 and related signaling proteins.

Now, in case I totally misunderstood your question and you meant, why not reduce the weight once, allowing 15 additional reps? Well, the answer is that sometimes if you reduce the weight too much, you can actually rest to an extent which ends up prolonging the set unduly.

You will be able to tell if you've created the correct environment, not by how many reps you can perform with a given weight, but because your muscle will be burning tremendously. It will burn/ache like crazy! Drop sets are done by "feel", you don't really have to plan it. So, if you want to only want to strip the weight once and rep-out...go ahead.

1) If you are doing multiple sets per exercise, only do a drop set on the last set of that exercise. You don’t want the drop set to prevent you from accomplishing a successful second set at your target weight. It is reasonable to do drop sets on multiple exercises for the same body part though.

2) I think it’s difficult to speak in terms of % when doing drop sets. Drop sets are utilized for a very specific purpose if using HST. Unlike traditional applications of drop sets, which are designed to “increase intensity”, in HST they are designed to alter the metabolic environment inside the muscle cell itself. As such, we don’t think in terms of Load, we think in term of performance. This may be one of the only times you’ll think in terms of performance during HST. So when determining how much weight to tear off the bar, just take some off and keep going. It isn’t important just how much you drop in weight, just so long as it allows about 5 more reps.

3) A drop set should let you achieve 15-20 reps total for the entire set. So, if you are doing sets of 5, you should try to knock out 10 more reps after the first 5. This volume of reps is designed to ensure sufficient metabolic strain.

4) Drop sets are valuable for hypertrophy, as long as they don’t take priority over progressive load and frequency. As mentioned in several other threads, drops sets produce the desired metabolic stimulus to facilitate the hypertrophy induced by the loading regimen of HST.

However, they must be utilized properly, and unless you understand their purpose, based on the physiological role they play in hypertrophy, you won’t know how to use them. This is what you see in the articles in the muscle mags. They will write about how “intense” they are and how they’ll put an inch or two on your guns. They’ll show some pro, sprayed down with a water bottle, grimacing as he pretends to “break through the pain barrier”. The high rep work during the 5s is beneficial because of the lack of metabolic demand (activation of MAPKerk1/2) of doing short 5 rep sets. Negatives require even less metabolic energy, so the benefit applies to negatives as well.

Of course, the benefit also depends on how many weeks you spend doing 5s and negatives. If you finish your cycle only doing 2 weeks of 5s and then start SD, you probably won't get a whole lot out of high rep drop sets. But if oyu do 4 weeks of 5s then try some negatives, you will get a boost in the hypertrophic signal by flushing the tissue with lactic acid and oxygen radicals."

 

[JohnnyCoho]

I noticed you swap out exercises a bit. Do you like this a lot?

Particularly the INcl Bench. I notice you switch between dumbbells and barbell. Is this optimal for progressive load? Would it be better to do something like this with dumbbells:

35, 35, 40, 40, 45, 45

or switch it around like you have?

I am also doing HST and just asking for fine tuning ideas

Jake

Jake,...yes I do like this a lot!!! And it IS somthing often incorporated in many HST programs. I dont however DB & BB's on incline Bench,..BB is done on flat bench and I use DB's for incline Bench. I particularly like switching between Squats and Deads. Other swtiches during my routine help to prevent some of the major zig zagging that would occur if I didn't. Now instead of major zig-zagging in ceratain lifts I am always adding a progressive load and maybe repeating a weight only a few times rather than having the zig-zag.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

No reason to switch things up like that. In fact, that could be seen as counter-productive if you aren't causing the same amount of tension on the muscle tissue to follow ahead of the RBE.

Well, I guess if you're using the same weight it's not a big deal, but I wouldn't swap whole exercises (i.e., bench press for dips).

TT, You seem very educated on many things including HST and have given ya K for it many times in the past,..now a question for ya though; How many HST cycles have you done?

Switching up excersises for myself and training partner has not at all been "counter-productive" in fact the opposite.

While I am aware that hitting a certain muscle group from diferent angles is not required to reach a desired metabolic stimulus to facilitate the hypertrophy in HST. I find that the most important aspect for me is the actual contraction of the target muscle for hypertropy.

When it comes right down to it,...It works for me!!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

OK,..now for todays journal entry.

Before posting todays entry I wanted to figure out how to post my pre HST (this cycle) pics taken on Nov 28th. Think I got them in there now,..any and all coments are welcome...and yes, I know BF is still a little bit of an issue for me around the mid section.

12 - 22 -04

Day 11

Was running a little late today so just stretched out on Swiss Ball before beginning workout.

- DEADLIFT WU, then 2 X 10 X 305lbs

- LEG PRESS 2 X 10 X 450lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 2 X 10 X 95lbs

- INCLINE DB PRESS 2 X 10 X 75lbs

- DB FLYES 2 X 10 X 30lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 2 X 10 X 60lbs

- CHINS WG 2 X 10 X 30lbs

- CHINS NG 2 X 10 X 50lbs

- REAR DELTS 2 X 10 X 30lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 2 X 10 X 75lbs
(did 2 Skull Crusher drop sets after 2nd set, 1 X 20 X 65lbs then 1 X 15 X 60lbs) Tris felt awesome after these!!

- SHRUGS 2 X 10 X 255lbs

- SEATED DB CURLS 2 X 10 X 35lb db's (we weren't really feeling any big benefit from rope hammer curls and switched to these today)

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 140lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 65lbs

NOTES: Over all a good workout today!! Startin' to see visually in the mirror some good growth for both myself and training partner. Will take some more measurments before starting our 5's next week.

 

[jstrick2]

I am confused on the drop sets still and am curious as to when to use them.

Currently, I don't do them. Are they required? I follow the 1 set for 15s, 2 sets for 10s, and 3 sets for 15s plan.

Should I be incorporating drop sets into this? If so...how? How do I gauge where to place them to make sure I am getting the benefits from them?

Jake

 

[jstrick2]

Jake,...yes I do like this a lot!!! And it IS somthing often incorporated in many HST programs. I dont however DB & BB's on incline Bench,..BB is done on flat bench and I use DB's for incline Bench. I particularly like switching between Squats and Deads. Other swtiches during my routine help to prevent some of the major zig zagging that would occur if I didn't. Now instead of major zig-zagging in ceratain lifts I am always adding a progressive load and maybe repeating a weight only a few times rather than having the zig-zag.

The reason I questioned about this was because of progressive load. Since you switch exercises......Even though you are working the same muscle group you are not necessarily increasing the load. To me, dumbbells will hit you harder....then when you switch to barbell you may not be creating even more strain than your previous workout. This would mean that you are not creating "progressive load". Thats why I posted the dumbbell poundages with a slow increase. I am unsure of which is better/more beneficial.

Jake

 

[JohnnyCoho]

I am confused on the drop sets still and am curious as to when to use them.

Currently, I don't do them. Are they required? I follow the 1 set for 15s, 2 sets for 10s, and 3 sets for 15s plan.

Should I be incorporating drop sets into this? If so...how? How do I gauge where to place them to make sure I am getting the benefits from them?

Jake

Drop sets are not required at all and if you do incorporate them, most would incorporate them during the 5's for starters.

We add them when we feel metabolic demands on the muscle tissue in certain areas has dropped. Its pretty much all by feel and listening to your body...Cant stress that enough!! For us it seems to be the case in the arms mostly,..lifts seem to be unusually light and body is saying the metabolic demand and stress on the muslce just isnt there even with the progressive load, thats when we'll add some drop sets.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

The reason I questioned about this was because of progressive load. Since you switch exercises......Even though you are working the same muscle group you are not necessarily increasing the load. To me, dumbbells will hit you harder....then when you switch to barbell you may not be creating even more strain than your previous workout. This would mean that you are not creating "progressive load". Thats why I posted the dumbbell poundages with a slow increase. I am unsure of which is better/more beneficial.

Jake

Progressive load was and is indeed created on target muscle groups when switching around excersises like we do. All maxes on every excersise we use was figured out before beginning our HST Cylce and working up to those maxes (adding progressive load) was done on everything just like every HST program out there used.

As far as which is "better/ more benificial" for you...you tell me! I dont know your body or how it reacts only you do. HST is not written in stone, it only gives you the frame work and the proper path to create the greatest hypertrophic environment based on science. When it comes to an individual basis only trial and error and figuring out what works and what doesn't for your body is what matters. Read over the HST Discussion training board and some of the other programs used; some switch excercises around like we do, some stick to a more traditional routine, some use AM / PM splits or split days even spending 6 days in the gym.

I'm posting my journal here to show how HST works for me and to give those that may have been as confused as I was when first getting started and reading over the entire HST site somthing a little more simple to look at. Also posted my journal to get some diferent feed-back from others using HST like yourself and what works for them. I am by no means a pro when it comes to HST and am willing to try new things; the one thing I do know is my body and what is working for me right now. Took 3 previous cycles of HST to figure just how best it works for me but like I said I am always willing to try somthing new and am open to advice and coments.

A couple of other quick notes for you too:

1. Just I responded to TT; "I find that the most important aspect for me is the actual contraction of the target muscle for hypertropy."

2. Another thing I find important for myself in facilitating hypertrophy in HST is holding some static contractions on the last rep of my sets when possible. When loads start to get to heavy for static contractions on the last rep and my body is telling me it needs more I may add a drop set or two. (Do be careful when adding drop sets or doing static contractions after your 15's you can approach the OT threshold and may not be able to complete your next workout.)

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Posted some pre HST pics past night in my gallery but I guess non plats couldn't view them. Re-posted them in the "Pictures of Our Members - Bodybuilding Gallery"

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12 - 27 -04

Day 13

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching

- DEADLIFT WU, then 3 X 5 X 350lbs

- LEG PRESS 3 X 5 X 600lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 3 X 5 X 100lbs

- INCLINE DB PRESS 3 X 5 X 80lbs

- DB FLYES 3 X 5 X 35lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 3 X 5 X 65lbs

- CHINS WG 3 X 5 X 35lbs

- CHINS NG 3 X 5 X 55lbs

- REAR DELTS 3 X 5 X 30lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 3 X 5 X 90lbs

- SHRUGS 3 X 5 X 275lbs

- SEATED DB CURLS 3 X 5 X 40lb db's

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 150lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 70lbs

NOTES:

- Just wasn't feeling all that with it today for our first day of 5's, couldn't focus!! Ate very poorly over X-Mas and way off diet. Also was very distracted by the traditional rush of New Years Resolution do-gooders joining the gym to get back into shape. 90+% of them never last more than a month! Back on diet now and ready for Wed already!!

 

[wnt2bBeast]

im questioning your glute ham raise..are you sure its a real GHR..your using 100lbs?? i know a 600lb deadlifter who just got a GHR and is having difficulty performing even a few reps and your using 100lbs?

 

[halfaclue]

12 - 27 -04

Day 13

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching

- DEADLIFT WU, then 3 X 5 X 350lbs

- LEG PRESS 3 X 5 X 600lbs

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 3 X 5 X 100lbs

- INCLINE DB PRESS 3 X 5 X 80lbs

- DB FLYES 3 X 5 X 35lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 3 X 5 X 65lbs

- CHINS WG 3 X 5 X 35lbs

- CHINS NG 3 X 5 X 55lbs

- REAR DELTS 3 X 5 X 30lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 3 X 5 X 90lbs

- SHRUGS 3 X 5 X 275lbs

- SEATED DB CURLS 3 X 5 X 40lb db's

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 150lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 70lbs

NOTES:

- Just wasn't feeling all that with it today for our first day of 5's, couldn't focus!! Ate very poorly over X-Mas and way off diet. Also was very distracted by the traditional rush of New Years Resolution do-gooders joining the gym to get back into shape. 90+% of them never last more than a month! Back on diet now and ready for Wed already!!

Your doing 36 sets???? How long does this take you? How long do you rest in between sets?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

im questioning your glute ham raise..are you sure its a real GHR..your using 100lbs?? i know a 600lb deadlifter who just got a GHR and is having difficulty performing even a few reps and your using 100lbs?

Yeah 2bBeast its a real GHR, they're one of my stronger lifts and love doin' them. I've got some pretty good leg strength just wish they were'nt so dam arse long. Maybe I'd be DL'ing 600 if they werent so long. Hams are on fire today though (off day) arse and lower back are a little sore along with the top portion of my quads by my hip from worn down GHR pad..

How do ya do your GHR's? I hold a DB to my chest when doing them

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Your doing 36 sets???? How long does this take you? How long do you rest in between sets?

Took us a little over 2 hours yesterday SUCKED!! Bad part of having gym owner as your training partner is all the New Years resolution do- gooders joining the gym...he has to sign em' up.

Rest between sets is just long enough for training partner to complete his set, usually explosive and fast enough to where we're still a bit winded from last set when jumping back in for another set.

 

[JKurz1]

Cmon, I wanna hear what was on the x-mas MENU!!!!

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Yeah 2bBeast its a real GHR, they're one of my stronger lifts and love doin' them. I've got some pretty good leg strength just wish they were'nt so dam arse long. Maybe I'd be DL'ing 600 if they werent so long. Hams are on fire today though (off day) arse and lower back are a little sore along with the top portion of my quads by my hip from worn down GHR pad..

How do ya do your GHR's? I hold a DB to my chest when doing them

only one way to do GHR's..a band around your neck is a lot easier than holding a dbell

 

[cwc73]

JohnnyC, could you look at my thread titled "CASUALBB. How's this HST routine?"
I have some good questions for you. I know you are doing this for mass, and that is what my question relates to.
Thanks!!!
You tha Man!

 

[Tom Treutlein]

What have your gains been like thus far, Mr. Coho? How much weight total? Lean mass? Fat mass? Bodyfat %?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

only one way to do GHR's..a band around your neck is a lot easier than holding a dbell

2bBeast, thought I saw bands being used in a GHR pic posted just a week or so ago,...and do have the full Jump Stretch line of bands from EF. So when using Mini's for Bench its suposed to be 85lbs of resistance at lock-out,..would the same apply for GHR's? Do you use bands for GHR's? And how do you implement them in your routine?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Cmon, I wanna hear what was on the x-mas MENU!!!!

I WAS BAD!!! Grandmas pie & fudge, stuffing, egg nog, and misc other bad sugared up carbs. Felt like a bloated pig all weekend!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

JohnnyC, could you look at my thread titled "CASUALBB. How's this HST routine?"
I have some good questions for you. I know you are doing this for mass, and that is what my question relates to.
Thanks!!!
You tha Man!

Will do Brah!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

What have your gains been like thus far, Mr. Coho? How much weight total? Lean mass? Fat mass? Bodyfat %?

First off TT,..PLEASE stop callin' me Mr. Coho!!! I may be old enough to be your Dad but I dont need to be called Mr.,...yer makin' me feel old!!

If ya look through my journal I took measurments at beginning of cycle and then again after 15's. Was planning on taking them again at the end of my 10's but they ended on X-Mas Eve and didn't have the time. Will take them again at end of 5's before Negs. Will start posting weight again like I had been doing before, but now will do for every journal entry.

THANKS SONNY BOY!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12-29-04

Day 14

Body Weight 214

Started today with 10 minutes on stationary bike for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching. (all treadmills were being used by New Year Res. Do-Gooders)

- SQUAT WU, 3 X 5 X 275lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 3 X 5 X 250lbs
(did 2 EXTENSION drop sets after 3rd set, 1 X 15 X 265lbs then 1 X 10 X 255lbs)

- GLUTE HAM RAISE 3 X 5 X 105lbs

- BENCH PRESS WU, 3 X 5 X 250lbs

- DB FLYES 3 X 5 X 40lbs (LOVE THESE!!)

- WEIGHTED DIPS 3 X 5 X 70lbs

- ROWS WG 3 X 5 X 215lbs

- ROWS NG 3 X 5 X 235lbs

- DB REAR DELTS 3 X 5 X 35lbs

- TRI DIPS 3 X 5 X 115lbs
(did 3 TRI DIP drop sets after 3rd set, 1 X 20 X 110lbs, 1 X 15 X 105lbs then 1 X 15 X 100lbs) (gonna be running outta magnet weights to stick on DB's soon. Gyms DB's only go up to 100lbers but we have those magnet weights to go up to 120)

- SHRUGS 3 X 5 X 285lbs
(probably coulda done some drop sets here too but traps are feeling like they're looking a little outta proportion. Wife says I look like I got a turtle shell on my back in a t-shirt)

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 3 X 5 X 100lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 160lbs (dunno why, but today was first day I could do almost all 75 straight without stopping. 25 toes in, 25 toes out, 25 straight)

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 35lbs
(Shoulda noted this before but every rep is held for 5 count static contraction and I never go all the way down allowing abs to rest)

NOTES:
- Diet is finally back in order and feeling much better for it as well!!
- Great workout today!! Took just over an hour to complete all sets (only two newbees joining gym tonight)
- Legs (even glutes) felt fried tonight,..gonna be interesting to see how they feel on Friday

 

[cwc73]

You wanna post some before and after picks in this thread? Just an Idea to show others the possiblities of HST and to keep you motivated, of course

 

[JohnnyCoho]

im questioning your glute ham raise..are you sure its a real GHR..your using 100lbs?? i know a 600lb deadlifter who just got a GHR and is having difficulty performing even a few reps and your using 100lbs?

2bBeast,

I owe ya an aplology and a Thank You with some "K" headed yer way.

After reading yer post and responding I did some more research into our GHR's,..and yer right...and I am Cowboying up to it!! While it looks like the GHR Machines I've seen in pics accross the web along with pics on how a GHR is done,...what in fact we've been doing is Hyper Extensions. My training partner who is also the gym owner and I looked through the catalog where he ordered it from and it is a "Roman Chair" we've been using. In his defense though it does say in the catalog, "Great for glute ham work" and is.

What we've been doing wrong is actually bending at our hips. Heels were set up right behind the padded roller and we were using our hams and glutes to extend straight up, but through further review we were bending at the hips and actually doing hypers.

On Monday we'll be trying true GHR's.
Roman Chair still work for them if were not bending at the hips or should we try them off the floor?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12 - 31 -04

Weight before workout 214.5

Day 15

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching

- DEADLIFT WU, then 3 X 5 X 405lbs

- LEG PRESS 3 X 5 X 645lbs

- HYPERS 3 X 5 X 120lbs

- INCLINE DB PRESS 3 X 5 X 85lbs

- DB FLYES 3 X 5 X 40lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 3 X 5 X 75lbs

- CHINS WG 3 X 5 X 40lbs

- CHINS NG 3 X 5 X 60lbs

- REAR DELTS 3 X 5 X 40lbs

- SKULL CRUSHERS 3 X 5 X 100lbs

- SHRUGS 3 X 5 X 295lbs

- SEATED DB CURLS 3 X 5 X 50lb db's

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 170lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 75lbs

NOTES:
- Workout was a bit rushed today, had a New Years Eve dinner engagement to go to. HAPPY NEW YEARS TO ALL!!!

 

[wnt2bBeast]

dont worry man it was an honest mistake..back raises are a good exericise as well and 100lbs is a lot to be using..

i tend to use back raises to get blood flow into the area after max effort days so i keep my reps high (10-15)

you can hit your glutes somewhat using a hyper if you make sure to squeeze them first but its not a large range of motion..

if your friend is a gym owner and wants to pick up a GHR a friend of mine just bought one and is very happy with it..see the link

http://www.midwestbarbell.com/catal...id=42&osCsid=a87875e337e5d4fc4aa4965957df0a76

 

[JohnnyCoho]

dont worry man it was an honest mistake..back raises are a good exericise as well and 100lbs is a lot to be using..

i tend to use back raises to get blood flow into the area after max effort days so i keep my reps high (10-15)

you can hit your glutes somewhat using a hyper if you make sure to squeeze them first but its not a large range of motion..

if your friend is a gym owner and wants to pick up a GHR a friend of mine just bought one and is very happy with it..see the link

http://www.midwestbarbell.com/catal...id=42&osCsid=a87875e337e5d4fc4aa4965957df0a76

Thanks Bro!! Printed out info on GHR for my buddy!! Guess we'll be trying floor GHR's on Monday to see how they feel,..for real!!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

You wanna post some before and after picks in this thread? Just an Idea to show others the possiblities of HST and to keep you motivated, of course

HAPPY NEW YEARS cwc!!

Already posted before pics on the members pics board. Here are the links to the before pics to go along with the journal though.

Posing is terrible, but here goes again anyways.

 

[JKurz1]

I forge bro, sorry, what are your goals again? Pics look good...you are prob. in the middle teens bf wise...yeah, your psoing needs some work! Loo...kidding bruh......back is coming around nicely, just need to pack on a little more size to the upper chest and arms......progress is good....maybe time to up the cals a little? Stomach is showing a little fat, but it's under control.......doing well!
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to JohnnyCoho again.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

01-03-05

Day 16

Body Weight 216
(up from 209 at beginning of HST cycle, haven't taken any measurments since the end of my 15's, but feelin great and even like I've lost some BF during this cycle)

Started today with 10 minutes on treadmill warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- SQUAT WU, 3 X 5 X 300lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 3 X 5 X 265lbs
(did 2 EXTENSION drop sets after 3rd set, 1 X 15 X 250lbs then 1 X 15 X 240lbs,...might drop these all together for next HST cycle, just not feelin' it as much with lower reps and higher weight other than in my knees)

- FLOOR GLUTE HAM RAISE 3 X 5 X BW (wnt2bBeast I owe ya Brah!! Gonna be feelin these tomorrow I'm sure!! Did very well on them I think and all 3 sets in good form,..till my training partner thought it would be funny to give me a push forward on my negative on the last rep of my last set, since I was showin' him up,..that fucker!!)

- BENCH PRESS WU, 3 X 5 X 265lbs

- DB FLYES 3 X 5 X 50lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 3 X 5 X 80lbs

- ROWS WG 3 X 5 X 230lbs

- ROWS NG 3 X 5 X 250lbs

- CABLE CROSSOVER REAR DELTS 3 X 5 X 45lbs each side (switched over to these from DB REAR DELTS, weight was fine but lying down face first on incline bench and doing flyes with the heavier weight, form was deteriorating)

- TRI DIPS 3 X 5 X 125lbs
(did 3 TRI DIP drop sets after 3rd set, 1 X 20 X 110lbs, 1 X 15 X 105lbs then 1 X 15 X 100lbs) (5 reps just arent gettin' er done here, even heavy as it is, wrists hurt more than anything else,..drop sets here are feeling a nec.)

- SHRUGS 3 X 5 X 305lbs

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 3 X 5 X 110lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 180lbs

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 40lbs

NOTES:
- Another great workout today other than wrists feeling sore from weighted dips and Tri Dips. Also had a bit of a sharp pain in my front delts after weighted dips today,...only lasted for a few seconds though.
- Also fell in love with Floor GHR's!!! Awesome feeling!! Was walkin around the gym like a drunk afterwords!!

 

[Tom Treutlein]

JC, how are your strength gains with an HST cycle? Do you find they're adequate, or sub-par?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

JC, how are your strength gains with an HST cycle? Do you find they're adequate, or sub-par?

TT,

I know HST was designed as a Mass Building program but for me personally its been a great strength building routine as well,..so I'd say above adequate!!

Last cycle through HST I set a new PR in Deads for myself during Negs week KILLING 450. As a note; I dont really do negs on Deads...dont really see how one could safely and with a bad back I really dont even wanna try a Dead Negative. So for Deads I just keep trying to increase the weight. Actually last HST cycle (made a post about it a while back) My mind was tellin' me a 500lb Deadlift was mine, got the digi camera all set up and ready to KILL 500 but my body said, "FUCK YOU!!!" Maybe this time around,...we'll see when we start our negs.

 

[JKurz1]

you doing any cardio on top of training? How's your diet been (aside from xmas) high protein high carb?

 

[JohnnyCoho]

you doing any cardio on top of training? How's your diet been (aside from xmas) high protein high carb?

Funny ya should ask JKurz,..buddy of mine welded me up a sled for X-Mas,..been toying with dragging it around the yard on off days. Thats about the only cardio I've been doing at the moment other than 10 min on the treadmill at the beginning of every workout.

As far as diet goes, back on track again now. I have started taking Creatine again. Did this my last HST cycle before starting my 5's and it seems to help some. Did my loading phase of it start of last week,..starting to feel its effects this week.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

12 - 31 -04

Weight before workout 216.5

Day 17

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching

- DEADLIFT WU, then 3 X 5 X 405lbs

- LEG PRESS 3 X 5 X 700lbs

- FLOOR GLUTE HAM RAISE 3 X 5 X BW

- INCLINE DB PRESS 3 X 5 X 90lbs

- DB FLYES 3 X 5 X 50lbs

- WEIGHTED DIPS 3 X 5 X 85lbs (still killin' my wrists!)

- CHINS WG 3 X 5 X 45lbs (needed spot on last two reps)

- CHINS NG 3 X 5 X 65lbs

- CABLE CROSSOVER REAR DELTS 3 X 5 X 50lbs each side

- SKULL CRUSHERS 3 X 5 X 110lbs

- SHRUGS 3 X 5 X 315lbs

- SEATED DB CURLS 3 X 5 X 50lb db's

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 190lbs

- AB PULL DOWNS 5 X 5 X 80lbs

NOTES:
- All in all a good workout,...feelin' a bug coming on though. Got a fever right now.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Have had a fever since Wednesdays workout and woke-up this morning with a 103 temp. Wife called the Doc and he said to get my arse in there. Doc said I have Influenza borderline Pneumonia and that if I wasn't in the sahpe I'm in right now physically that he'd have my arse in the hospital on IV the next few days. Guess I'm really dehydrated too..he gave me some gel type shit when I got there too. Guess also there's some blood in my urine...had to take a UA sample to send out.

Luckily I got to go home!!

Not gonna be able to workout all this coming week (Doc said to take it easy with the antibiotics he's got me on) So,...guess this is gonna be my Deconditioning two weeks. We'll see how it goes!!

Thing that sucks the most is my weight is now down to 214 from Wednesdays 216.5,..feelin like I've lost a bit of what I've worked so hard for...maybe its just fat that I've sweated out having this shit.

 

[wnt2bBeast]

training would only delay your recovery muscle and otherwise..
take the time to rest up the weights will be there when your ready

 

[cwc73]

Power to you johnnyc. I hope you get better. Take the time to rest for sure. I hope you get better!
Your in my prayers,
CwC

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Thanks 2bbeast and cwc!! I gotta spread some more K around before I can hit ya again

 

[JKurz1]

everything happens for a reason brutha....rest up!

 

[JohnnyCoho]

IM BACK !!!!...TO KILL SOME SHIT!!!

Ok,..gonna take a few posts here to catch up on some shit since I've been outta' it for the past two weeks.

UPDATE: Basically the Influenza borderline Pneumonia shit I caught ended up Pneumonia and put me in the hospital for a little over a day on IV due to extreme dehydration. Shit hit me right in my second week of 5's on HST and cut my 4th HST cycle short (usually see my best gains in my 5's and negs of HST too)

Anyways,.. after 2 weeks of deconditioning I'm back at it and started my 5th HST cycle last night. Having 2 weeks off to get well again I've had a bunch of time to work on our program and do quite a bit of studying on the various excercise kinesiologies of our routine. We have dropped a few excercises and added a few in their place as you will soon see in my up-coming journal entries.

Note: Since I've been trying to make my journal easy for all to understand, being that the actual HST site is very scientific specific and hard to understand, I'll try and keep everything in lamen terms. So,...Kinesiology: Is the study of the principals of mechanics and anatomy in relation to human movement.

Next entry,.....

 

[JohnnyCoho]

....Ok,..started my last HST cycle on 11-29-04 with the following stats;
Age - 36
Weight - 209
Height - 6' 3"
BF % - 12-14

BODY MEASUREMENTS:

Chest - 45"
Bi's - right = 18 1/4, left = 18
waist - 36
belly - 36.5
neck - 17 1/2
Quads - 25" Left & Right
Calves - 16 1/2 Right & 16 1/4 Left

Ended this last cycle right it the middle of my 5's with a nasty bug and didn't have a chance to take measurements but last weighed in at 216lbs. for a 7 lb gain in weight in just 5 1/2 weeks,..and all natty too.

Took new stats again last night to begin my 5th HST cycle. Was actually shocked at the weight loss from being sick and thought for sure body measurements would reflect the loss as well (until I comapred them to the original measurements above) Here's the new Stats:

STATS as of 1 - 17 -05 (taken cold before workout)

Age - 36
Weight - 208.5 (started last HST cycle at 209 and got up to 216)
Height - 6' 3"
BF % - 12 (an on-going fever that lasted for 7 days knocked som BF off for sure)

BODY MEASUREMENTS:

Chest - 46" ( a one inch gain from last HST cycle start )
Bi's - right = 18 1/4, left = 18 1/4 (unchanged)
waist - 35 (down an inch from lst HST start)
belly - 35 (cut here as well)
neck - 17 1/2 (unchanged)
Quads - 25.5 Left & Right (up 1/2 inch)
Calves - 16 3/4 Right & 16 3/4 Left (up here as well)
Forearms - 14.5 left & right

Next entry....DIET....

 

[JohnnyCoho]

....Diet

Diet on last HST Cycle to this one is pretty much the same with only a few minor changes;

Meal 1 6:30AM

- 9 egg whites / 2 yokes
- 2 cups oatmeal
- 1 piece of fruit
- 1 tbs Flax

Meal 2 10:00AM

- 6oz can of tuna in water
- 2 cups rice
- 2 Grams fish oil

Meal 3 12:00 Noon

- 8oz ground elk, deer or beef
- 2 cups rice

Meal 4 2:00PM

- 8oz Salmon
- 1 lg potato
- 1/2 cup low sugar fruit

Meal 5 4:00 PM (pre workout)

- Pro Complex (2 scoops)

Post workout Meal

- Pro Complex (2 Scoops)

Meal 6 6:00Pm

- Chicken
- 6 oz Peas, Spinach or Broccoli
- 3 slices whole grain bread
- Pro Complex (3 scoops)
- 2 Grams Fish Oil

Meal 7 before bed
- Pro Complex (2 Scoops)

Totals =
220 - 340 Grams of Protein 1000 - 1020 Calories
107 Fat 963 Calories
485 Carbs for 1940 Calories

1 + Gallons of water per day

Not super strict on diet though and I will fudge a bit adding more protein like eating Deer, or Elk for dinner rather than Chicken. Sometimes I'll add some elk or deer to my eggs in the morning. And also for Meal 2 will have an all natty Peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread for a change now and then.

Sundays are cheat days!!

....One last entry for today...The Start of my 5th HST cycle...

 

[JohnnyCoho]

MY NEW & IMPROVED 5th HST CYLCE!!!

I've stuck to the 15, 10 & 5 rep ranges for each cycle (why change whats been working)

Started 15's on Monday 01-17-04 after a two week deconditioning period from last HST cycle that was cut short in the middle of my 5's due to catching a bug.

Day 1

WEIGHT 208.5lbs

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- DEADLIFT WU, then 1 X 15 X 225lbs

- HACK SQUAT 1 X 15 X 150lbs

- FLOOR GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X BW

- INCLINE DB PRESS 1 X 15 X 50lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 20lbs

- CHINS WG 1 X 15 X BW

- ONE ARM DB ROWS 1 X 15 X 45lbs

- CABLE CROSSOVER REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 10lbs

- REVERSE GRIP TRI PUSDOWNS 1 X 15 X 30lbs

- SHRUGS 1 X 15 X 205lbs

- SEATED DB CURLS 1 X 15 X 25lbs

- STANDING CALF RAISE 1 X 75 X 100lbs

- NEEDSIZE AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 25lbs

- HANGING LEG RAISES 5 X 5 X BW

NOTES:
- FELT GREAT TO GET BACK INTO THE GYM AGAIN!!!
- Deads were done as 15 singles, 1 rep, reset, than another rep. Deads are my favorites and have added the most mass to my back!! Being really long legged all deads for me are done sumo style.
- Dropped Leg Press from original program and replaced with hack squats.
- Added Floor Glute Ham Raises to program end of last cycle. Still cannot complete all reps un-assisted (found a great way to spot each other on these using a weight belt and chain) Somthing new though that we absolutely love!!! Gonna take awhile here to get to do these with any weight and un-assisted but were gonna keep at them. I HIGHLY RECOMEND THESE TO ANYONE!!..looking to add mass and strength to glutes and hams.
- Dropped narrow grip chins from last cycle for one arm DB rows.
- Dropped rear delt flyes from last program mid way through for rear delt cable crossovers. These will fry yer' rear delts when done correctly!!
- Dropped Skulls from last program and opted for Reverse Grip Tri Pushdowns instead. Easier on joints and tendons and easier to concentrate on form.
- Dropped rope hammer curls for Bi's and opted for seated DB curls instead. Seems to isolate Bi's better and form is kept strict being seated.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

01-19-05

Day 2

WEIGHT 210lbs

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- SQUAT WU, 1 X 15 X 205lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 1 X 15 X 200lbs

- FLOOR GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X BW

- BENCH PRESS WU, 1 X 15 X 150lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 25lbs

- ROWS WG 1 X 15 X 150lbs

- ONE ARM DB ROWS 1 X 15 X 50lbs

- CABLE CROSSOVER REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 15lbs

- SEATED OVERHEAD TRI EXTENSIONS 1 X 15 X 30lbs

- UPRIGHT BB ROWS 1 X 15 X 60lbs

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 1 X 15 X 75lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 105lbs

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 30lbs

- HANGING LEG RAISES 5 X 5 X BW

NOTES:
- Very easy to concentrate on Static holds, do slow negs, and concentrate on form while weight is relatively light. Contrary to others I love 15's, just for the reasons above. (other than floor glute ham raises,..these fuckers kill!! I love the shit outta them though!!)

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Day 3

WEIGHT 210.5lbs

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- DEADLIFT WU, then 1 X 15 X 250lbs

- HACK SQUAT 1 X 15 X 160lbs

- FLOOR GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X BW

- INCLINE DB PRESS 1 X 15 X 55lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 30lbs

- CHINS WG 1 X 15 X 5lbs

- ONE ARM DB ROWS 1 X 15 X 55lbs

- CABLE CROSSOVER REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 20lbs

- REVERSE GRIP TRI PUSDOWNS 1 X 15 X 35lbs

- SHRUGS 1 X 15 X 215lbs

- SEATED DB CURLS 1 X 15 X 30lbs

- STANDING CALF RAISE 1 X 75 X 110lbs

- AB PULLDOWNS 5 X 5 X 35lbs

- HANGING LEG RAISES 5 X 5 X BW

NOTES:
- Mang' I love them Floor Glute Ham Rasies!! Glutes and Hams have been sore all week...definately gettin' stronger at them though almost completed all 15 tonight without a spot. (Ya just gotta have a training partner you trust when doing these!! We've been using a weight belt around our chest with a chain to spot each other when needed...hands behind back and forehead to the floor. Can only get just over 3/4 to the floor on negs on these and I need a spot)
- Other than that everything else is still really light and concentrating on super strict form and static contractions is easy....and feelin' great!!

 

[cwc73]

hey jonnyC.

Is there anyway you could help design my workout weights if I gave you my maxes. sets, and increments? I have too much zig/zag. Thanks.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

Jesus, learn to do it on your own. It isn't hard.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

Jesus, learn to do it on your own. It isn't hard.

Easy there TT!! ..little harsh there!!

I don't mind helping out a Brotha!! First couple of HST cycles confused the shit outta me as well,..especially all the science stuff behind it.

 

[JohnnyCoho]

hey jonnyC.

Is there anyway you could help design my workout weights if I gave you my maxes. sets, and increments? I have too much zig/zag. Thanks.

I'll take a look at it for ya Brah'...PM it over to me

 

[JohnnyCoho]

01-24-05

Day 4

WEIGHT 211lbs

Start with 10 minutes walking treadmill at highest incline for warm-up followed
by Swiss Ball stretching.

- SQUAT WU, 1 X 15 X 225lbs

- LEG EXTENSION 1 X 15 X 205lbs

- FLOOR GLUTE HAM RAISE 1 X 15 X BW

- BENCH PRESS WU, 1 X 15 X 175lbs

- DB FLYES 1 X 15 X 35lbs

- ROWS WG 1 X 15 X 155lbs

- ONE ARM DB ROWS 1 X 15 X 60lbs

- CABLE CROSSOVER REAR DELTS 1 X 15 X 25lbs

- SEATED OVERHEAD TRI EXTENSIONS 1 X 15 X 35lbs

- UPRIGHT BB ROWS 1 X 15 X 65lbs

- BI CMBR BAR CURLS 1 X 15 X 80lbs

- CALVES 1 X 75 X 115lbs

- AB CRUNCHES 5 X 5 X 40lbs

- HANGING LEG RAISES 5 X 5 X BW

NOTES:
- Diet got a bit fudged today and missed a couple of meals...other than that another productive day at the gym.

 

[JKurz1]

This is my training journal,...take it outside JKurz and Tom !!! J.

 

[Tom Treutlein]

This is my training journal,...take it outside JKurz and Tom !!! J.

 

[JKurz1]

This is my training journal,...take it outside JKurz and Tom !!! J.

 

[JKurz1]

This is my training journal,...take it outside JKurz and Tom !!! J.