My CKD plan - feedback

[Xizor]

I'm curious-- for those on a CKD diet, how much muscle do you lose in general? I mean, with a split like "65% fat, 30% protein, 5% carbs", you must lose a ton.

Since Ketobodies are used for fule and there is an "unlimited" supply of energy from fat. As opposed to carbcontaining diets where body might use muscleprotein as fuel when glycogen is low. It might actually be musclesparing once ur body is acustomed to it..

When I did CKD last time it was for 10 months and muscle loss was acceptable considering the time I was on.

/Xizor

 

[mcbruiser]

I was always under the impression that to maintain muscle required at least 1g of protein per lb of LBM.

Would it make much difference if I were to reverse protein and fat on the schedule, IOW, 65% protein and 35% fat? and use my carbs only in my post-wo shake, but increase that from <20g to more like 50g dextrose? how about having a few carbs preworkout? i don't think that my training time is the right time to be burning fat. I want to build muscle during that hour and use the other 23 hours of the day to burn fat.

sort of a pseudo-CKD/atkins diet. thoughts?

 

[mcbruiser]

Since Ketobodies are used for fule and there is an "unlimited" supply of energy from fat. As opposed to carbcontaining diets where body might use muscleprotein as fuel when glycogen is low. It might actually be musclesparing once ur body is acustomed to it..

When I did CKD last time it was for 10 months and muscle loss was acceptable considering the time I was on.

/Xizor

the words "might be" and "muscle loss was acceptable" raise a red flag for me.

 

[juve]

if your baseline maintenance itake is 3k cals, 900cals restriction will prove too much an energy deficit.
2.5-2.7k cals is fine, kick in some cardio+weights - ie keep it operational, not anorexic
as your weight decreases and/or as your progress slows down then further taper off nutrient intake.

 

[mcbruiser]

i dunno. i'm not convinced so far. i will have to read more about ketogenics.

forget about dieting. just stick with thermogenics, liposuction, genetic manipulation.

 

[harman_2005]

i dunno. i'm not convinced so far. i will have to read more about ketogenics.

forget about dieting. just stick with thermogenics, liposuction, genetic manipulation.

Your questions are too general. Read more about the diet and come back to ask specific questions. The sticky's have good information, as does c-k-d.com

To answer one of your questions, 65% protein wouldn't work. You would not be able to enter ketosis.

Another note, I'm 180 lbs with 15% bf. That's 153 lbs LBM. At 65% fat, 30% protein, rest carbs, that's ~155 grams of protein a day, enough to maintain.

 

[harman_2005]

i don't think that my training time is the right time to be burning fat. I want to build muscle during that hour and use the other 23 hours of the day to burn fat.

In ketosis, you're always burning body fat. That's the point. As for building muscle during that hour of training, if you meant that literally, then I have to say you don't build muscle during that hour anyway. If you meant it figuratively, then I would say that since it is a (reduction) diet, the point is not to build but to maintain the muscle while cutting fat. That's what the CKD is designed for.

Some people do use low-/no-carb diets to bulk, but I'm not too familiar with the ideas behind that. For information on that concept, search for "The Anabolic Diet" on T-Mag.com

 

[mcbruiser]

harman, thanks for the info. one question though, why wouldn't the fat-protein ratio reversal work? i.e. 65% protein and 35% fat? why would that prevent ketosis? i would guess b/c protein coverts to glucose at a higher rate than fat?

I am 194 lbs, 12% bf, than means I would need about 170g ED for maintenance. Would I get that on a CKD diet?

Also, out of curiosity, do CKD diets work better for natural athletes or for athletes using AAS? It seems like w/o carbs, you will eventually lose muscle mass. It just isn't natural otherwise.

Of course I meant figuratively, re: the training. As I understand it, high intensity training requires a constant source of glucose. I eat some carbs before training to avoid gluconeogenesis, or the breakdown of muscle into glucose, and then some dextrose post-wo to replenish glycogen stores to avoid going catabolic. I don't eat any carbs the rest of the day while dieting.

This seems to be working okay, but I am still losing some muscle mass. But I'm still learning, so I admit this approach may be flawed. That's why I am here.

 

[Xizor]

the words "might be" and "muscle loss was acceptable" raise a red flag for me.

I'll try to explain myself. In nutritional and diet knowledge there is no such thing as "one size fits all". We all are uniquely build, exept twins a´nd work in different ways. I might be doing very well on a diet that doesnt work for you. When I write stuff on discussionboards I dont like presenting what I say as facts. Yes, I believe the stuff I say is right, but are they? I have knowledge in the ckd diet thru articles Ive read and cause Ive tried it for a long timeperiod, but I still wont present what I say as facts.

heres some atricles by Lyle McDonald I think you should read..
http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/cyclic1.htm
http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/cyclic2.htm
http://low-carb.org/lylemcd/cyclic3.htm

and heres my results
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=283735&highlight=10months

/Xizor

 

[mcbruiser]

Great results, Xizor, but even you admit that you were not exactly natural. Also, it's interesting to note that there was one bro who tried the CKD diet and commented that he had lost considerable muscle mass, which is exactly why I hesitate to try it myself.

I will read the articles you posted, thanks for the information. I will be the first to admit that I could be wrong, I am just not informed enough at this point.

One question... on a ketogenic diet, I assume that it must be necessary to also be in a calorie deficit in order to burn bodyfat, otherwise won't you just be burning ketones converted from the fat that you are consuming and not from your body?