MR X or ne 1 in in the know (supercompensated in 24hrs?)

[Noomrise33]

Duchaines BodyOpus required a 2 day recompensition phase, in which, with the use of glucose disposal agents, you supercompensated your muscle glycogen levels too 175 mmol/kg. If you succesfully deplete your muscle glycogen stores too 20 to 25mmol/kg, how are you suppose to effectively supercompensate those muscles in a 24 hr period when, APPARENTLY, research shows that you can only replenish glycogen stores at the rate of 5mol/kg/hr. Some might even progress at a slower rate. I am just curious as to how on Mr. Xs CKD diet you are going to achieve supercompensation in a 24hour time frame. I am thinking about trying his diet but I am concerned that I will not be able to completely restore my muscle glycogen stores in 24 hrs. Any info would be great.

Dan

 

[Noomrise33]

noone has anything to say about this?

 

[Fat_eater]

Interesting. Can you show researches for your figure of 5mol/kg/hr?

 

[Noomrise33]

The only resource that I have on this is Duchaines "BodyOpus" book. Wich I realize was written a few years ago. I still don't see supercompensation in 24 hrs w/o the use of insulin.
Dan

 

[mrzap]

I haven't been in any lab studies, but I follow MrX's CKD instructions to the letter and the next two days I am able to do my weight training workouts without them being miserable. After about 48 hours after carb up I am right back in ketosis.

 

[Noomrise33]

I am sure that your workouts are good, but I am wondering how you are suppose too supercompensate the muscle in a 24 hr time frame. Again, if you deplete muscle glycogen to 20 mmol/kg and expect to restore those levels too 175mmol/kg, you should need more than 24 hrs. If you can only effecitively restore those levels at a rate of 5 mmol/kg/hr and are eating every two hours that means that you have only restored it to 80 mmol/kg. And that is with the use of glucose disposal agents. If you aren't using them the rate is more like 10 mmol/kg/hr. As I said before this information is from Duchaines book "BodyOpus" and if this has since been proven otherwise I would be glad to hear about it. Carb ups used to be 3-4 days now they are down to 1. I am just very hesitant to believe that you can completely compensate you muscle glycogen levels in that time. Sure, it is easier to get into ketosis after only one day, but aren't we concerned with muscle as well? I ate everything possible las weekend and was able to get into to ketosis by Tuesday night.( I ate my last carb Sunday at about midnight.)

 

[Stryc-9]

You're absolutely right Noomrise33 - there is no way that supercompensation can occur within one day (as you said, it would probably take 3 or 4 days) - but maximal glycogen recompensation will certainly occur within the first 24 hours of a carb-up (provided that proper depletion has occured, etc.,).

I'm not quite sure what you mean by mmol/kg but let's assume that the average person has a blood glucose level between 80-120 mg/dl (milligrams per decaliter of blood) which converts to something like 4.4 - 6.6 mmol/L (millimoles per litre of blood, as you know).

Ketosis can be reached at around 50-60 mg/dl (or 2.7 - 3.3 mmol/L) and even after depletion, blood glucose won't likely drop as low as 20 mg/dl - assuming that we are talking about the same measurement parameters.

In any case - you're right - there's no debate that supercompensation will occur - but that's not exactly necessary for the purpose of a general CKD (which is primarily used for fat loss rather than muscle building) - although not always!!

Hope this helps ya!

 

[Noomrise33]

Thanks stryc-9, when I say mmol/kg that is how they calculate muscle glycogen levels, unfortunately the only way for us to actually measure that is by going to the hospital. So in your personal opinion what route do you think is better for me too take. My goals are obviously to lose some fat but I am not in a hurry, nor do I have much to lose as I am at 10%bf now. I just figured, hey, if I could gain a little muscle while dieting down why not. But if there is still some chance to gain muscle during just a regular recomposition phase then I would obviously be all for it since I will also be in ketosis for at least an extra day.

 

[Stryc-9]

Oh okay, well the only way I've ever heard of measuring muscle glycogen specifically is through NMR spectroscopy (nuclear magnetic resonance or something like that). I've never personally measured my blood glucose levels - but I know a few guys at my gym who use glucose meters for gauging their level of depletion via blood sugar levels, etc.,

In any case, I have mixed feelings about using a CKD when I'm already at a fairly low body-fat level. For me personally, it just doesn't do the trick as effectively as a high protein, moderate carb, low fat diet plan (but I've never been above 18% body fat, so who knows). Something like 50/30/20 works well for me to drop into single digit body fat levels. As long as calories aren't too high I find that I can continue dropping bodyfat - but when I run a CKD I usually hit a fat loss wall around 10-11%. It really depends on what you're body is already used to. Experimenting is part of the fun though!

 

[Noomrise33]

I am with you on that, I got sick of all the normal diets. So I figured I would try my hand at a ketosis diet. I hit a wall on the diet you are talking about, so maybe this will do the trick for me.
Anyhow, thanks alot for the help. Hopefully this ckd diet will work for me. Take it easy man.

Dan