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T
The Shadow
Guest
...post em.
Straight-bar Curls
Pulldowns
Flat Barbell Bench
Straight-bar Curls
Pulldowns
Flat Barbell Bench
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
Cornholio said:
any type of bench
squat
deadlift
chin
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
Let me elaborate.
People keep telling how you have to do squat/dead/bench, isolation (pec deck flys etc) dont work they say.
Well exercises have NOTHING to do with growth. They just determine which muscles get worked.
Furthermore, big compound movements are good for strength. But they dont make a certain bodypart grow bigger than an isolation exercise for it.
IF you know how to do stuff you can get lots of mass with isolation movements, sometimes even more than with compound movements. Because compound movements sometimes have a big tendency to involve other parts, thus less direct stimulation to the target muscle (chest, lower back, quads etc).
So in that way compound are being overrated (for mass).
JOKER47 said:
Wtf????
Let me elaborate.
People keep telling how you have to do squat/dead/bench, isolation (pec deck flys etc) dont work they say.
Well exercises have NOTHING to do with growth. They just determine which muscles get worked.
Furthermore, big compound movements are good for strength. But they dont make a certain bodypart grow bigger than an isolation exercise for it.
IF you know how to do stuff you can get lots of mass with isolation movements, sometimes even more than with compound movements. Because compound movements sometimes have a big tendency to involve other parts, thus less direct stimulation to the target muscle (chest, lower back, quads etc).
So in that way compound are being overrated (for mass).
Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
I have to disagree. Since I incorporated squats into my training routine, I have a dramatic increase in overall strength and thickness. (I have not been deadlifting long enough to be able to determine a noticeable difference with those.) Weight increases, tighter clothes, comments from friends, etc...all started a couple months AFTER squats were included.
Therefore, I have to say that the compiund movements, do have a significant impact towards size and thickness.
Joker
SSAlexSS said:
I have to disagree. Since I incorporated squats into my training routine, I have a dramatic increase in overall strength and thickness. (I have not been deadlifting long enough to be able to determine a noticeable difference with those.) Weight increases, tighter clothes, comments from friends, etc...all started a couple months AFTER squats were included.
Therefore, I have to say that the compiund movements, do have a significant impact towards size and thickness.
Joker
buffal2001
New member
Look SSAlexSS........please stop it with this shit.....its getting very tedious......ive read 4 posts today with you in them and i am getting very wound up about how u are influencing newbies with your shite training philosohies.....really.......please!!!!!!
Well exercises have NOTHING to do with growth. They just determine which muscles get worked.
How ignorant could one person allowed to be?
Muscles alone?
So forget about GH and test release by the big compound movements, strengthing multiple joints and ligaments at the same time.
It has been proved by russian scientists that squatting can add up to 15% extra mass on the arms.
How ignorant could one person allowed to be?
Muscles alone?
So forget about GH and test release by the big compound movements, strengthing multiple joints and ligaments at the same time.
It has been proved by russian scientists that squatting can add up to 15% extra mass on the arms.
supersizeme
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
You're an idiot. Stop posting this drivel.
SSAlexSS said:
You're an idiot. Stop posting this drivel.
Holy fucking sheet I can't believe what Alex just posted. Seriously dude...open up any textbook about weightlifting. You know less than weightlifting than my grandma who hasn't touched a weight in her life.
Anyway:
Leg extensions
Leg Curls
Concentration Curls
Lat pulldowns
FLYES
Cable shit
pec deck
Actually, pretty much 90% of machines and isolation exercises.
-Zulu
Anyway:
Leg extensions
Leg Curls
Concentration Curls
Lat pulldowns
FLYES
Cable shit
pec deck
Actually, pretty much 90% of machines and isolation exercises.
-Zulu
brianmincher
New member
Pec Dec.
and a distant second:
Leg press. I can press as much as our machine can hold for 15 reps, and during the whole time I worked leg presses heavily, my squat went nowhere. After I quit leg pressing and focused on my posterior chain, my squat began going up.
B
and a distant second:
Leg press. I can press as much as our machine can hold for 15 reps, and during the whole time I worked leg presses heavily, my squat went nowhere. After I quit leg pressing and focused on my posterior chain, my squat began going up.
B
Haz
New member
I have to say the Barbell Bench Press. 95% of people use this as their core chest exercise, but I don't think its anything special.
Personally, it places too much stress on my shoulders and wrists. I get much more chest involvement from incline barbell presses, and flat and incline dumbell presses.
But, I guess it depends on your bodytype. Mine just doesn't seem suited for flat barbell benching. I've just about stopped doing the exercise, and I'm still getting good results.
Personally, it places too much stress on my shoulders and wrists. I get much more chest involvement from incline barbell presses, and flat and incline dumbell presses.
But, I guess it depends on your bodytype. Mine just doesn't seem suited for flat barbell benching. I've just about stopped doing the exercise, and I'm still getting good results.
p0ink
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
You really are the STUPIDEST motherfucker on this board when it comes to training. I really hope any newbie out there does not heed your ridiculous advice. Good luck getting huge with all those lateral raises and kickbacks, I'll stick to my deads, squats, cleans and bench.
SSAlexSS said:
You really are the STUPIDEST motherfucker on this board when it comes to training. I really hope any newbie out there does not heed your ridiculous advice. Good luck getting huge with all those lateral raises and kickbacks, I'll stick to my deads, squats, cleans and bench.
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
Great. You called yourself an idiot.
You didnt understood the new concept *gasp* .
If I am an idiot, than post a reply that isnt idiotic. Obviously you cant, so you resort to name calling like a little baby!
Express your thoughts. What was idiotic in my post? DOnt like my theories? debunk them!
compound exercises are great for strength! But not nessesary for mass. Strenth increase DOES NOT mean size increase, because strenth is NEUROLOGICAL. Size is muscular hypertrophy. Stress on a muscle rather on your nervous system.
supersizeme said:
Great. You called yourself an idiot.
You didnt understood the new concept *gasp* .
If I am an idiot, than post a reply that isnt idiotic. Obviously you cant, so you resort to name calling like a little baby!
Express your thoughts. What was idiotic in my post? DOnt like my theories? debunk them!
compound exercises are great for strength! But not nessesary for mass. Strenth increase DOES NOT mean size increase, because strenth is NEUROLOGICAL. Size is muscular hypertrophy. Stress on a muscle rather on your nervous system.
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
Since I am so stupid.
Why are you even worse? Just because your primitive punk ass brain doesnt get what I have said, you like a animal resort to violence.
Show your brains and post an intellegent reply to that. I doubt it judging from your reply, but I hope that you can!
p0ink said:
Since I am so stupid.
Why are you even worse? Just because your primitive punk ass brain doesnt get what I have said, you like a animal resort to violence.
Show your brains and post an intellegent reply to that. I doubt it judging from your reply, but I hope that you can!
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
XAX said:Well exercises have NOTHING to do with growth. They just determine which muscles get worked.
How ignorant could one person allowed to be?
Muscles alone?
So forget about GH and test release by the big compound movements, strengthing multiple joints and ligaments at the same time.
It has been proved by russian scientists that squatting can add up to 15% extra mass on the arms.
20 rep squats that is.
But VOLUME not strength is responcible for hormonal changes. And that builds muscle. 8+ reps.
You could do heavy squats, heavy deads, heavy benches yet dont be that big? Why? You are training you nervous system and joints. To train for muscle size, THAT MUSCLE NEEDS TO BE WORKED. Not almost you entire body as a whole.
You can get bigger biceps by doing curls? HOw>?
pick a medium weight. Try to do as much reps as possible in a set time, liek 5 minutes. Next day use the same weight and get more reps in the same time frame. When your total reps get to 150 , add weight. Repeat the cycle.
Your hormones WILL increase with that, and you DO have muscle specific stress. Means more bicep growth than with squats, becayse you are training your arms, not your quads!
Last edited:
Lord_Suston
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
SSAlexSS: Th reason most compound movement create such size increase if after CNS adaptation (coordination an such) which creates strength, which you are right on, is there is a a cooreltaion with muscle size and strength, IN AN INDIVIDUAL. now this is a very tricky concept, I know it took many years to understand. After you gain coordination, your body starts to grow by increasing myosin and actin, at a greater rate then before coordination. now the important thing is compound movement will tax your muscle greater than a isolated movement becasue of the greater amount of stress place on the muscle, since this is weight related. By taxing your muscle more, your body will grow mre in response to the greater amount of microtears in the fibers of the muscle. This will also cause a release of GH and test. So Higher weight= more tears when training intensly= more growth. But much of this is due to positive failure, because in this state the myosin head and actin are almost fully contracted and are sustaining microtears due to the insufficent ATP in the muscle.
SSAlexSS said:
SSAlexSS: Th reason most compound movement create such size increase if after CNS adaptation (coordination an such) which creates strength, which you are right on, is there is a a cooreltaion with muscle size and strength, IN AN INDIVIDUAL. now this is a very tricky concept, I know it took many years to understand. After you gain coordination, your body starts to grow by increasing myosin and actin, at a greater rate then before coordination. now the important thing is compound movement will tax your muscle greater than a isolated movement becasue of the greater amount of stress place on the muscle, since this is weight related. By taxing your muscle more, your body will grow mre in response to the greater amount of microtears in the fibers of the muscle. This will also cause a release of GH and test. So Higher weight= more tears when training intensly= more growth. But much of this is due to positive failure, because in this state the myosin head and actin are almost fully contracted and are sustaining microtears due to the insufficent ATP in the muscle.
Lord_Suston
New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
SSAlexSS: Th reason most compound movement create such size increase if after CNS adaptation (coordination an such) which creates strength, which you are right on, is there is a a cooreltaion with muscle size and strength, IN AN INDIVIDUAL. now this is a very tricky concept, I know it took many years to understand. After you gain coordination, your body starts to grow by increasing myosin and actin, at a greater rate then before coordination. now the important thing is compound movement will tax your muscle greater than a isolated movement becasue of the greater amount of stress place on the muscle, since this is weight related. By taxing your muscle more, your body will grow mre in response to the greater amount of microtears in the fibers of the muscle. This will also cause a release of GH and test. So Higher weight= more tears when training intensly= more growth. But much of this is due to positive failure, because in this state the myosin head and actin are almost fully contracted and are sustaining microtears due to the insufficent ATP in the muscle. Since ATP is depletd faster in compund movement because of the greater demand muscle suffer more stress easier...
SSAlexSS said:
SSAlexSS: Th reason most compound movement create such size increase if after CNS adaptation (coordination an such) which creates strength, which you are right on, is there is a a cooreltaion with muscle size and strength, IN AN INDIVIDUAL. now this is a very tricky concept, I know it took many years to understand. After you gain coordination, your body starts to grow by increasing myosin and actin, at a greater rate then before coordination. now the important thing is compound movement will tax your muscle greater than a isolated movement becasue of the greater amount of stress place on the muscle, since this is weight related. By taxing your muscle more, your body will grow mre in response to the greater amount of microtears in the fibers of the muscle. This will also cause a release of GH and test. So Higher weight= more tears when training intensly= more growth. But much of this is due to positive failure, because in this state the myosin head and actin are almost fully contracted and are sustaining microtears due to the insufficent ATP in the muscle. Since ATP is depletd faster in compund movement because of the greater demand muscle suffer more stress easier...
*sigh*
20 rep squats that is.
Nope, squatting in generel
But VOLUME not strength is responcible for hormonal changes. And that builds muscle. 8+ reps
Uh yeah, lets do 10x60 reps - that would build a shitload a muscle acording to your theory.
Number of reps alone means nothing. To stimulate maximum muscle degradation - the hypertrophy response, consider time under tension instead.
You think a muscle cannot grow alone, unless it has been worked directly? Wrong again.
The amount of muscles worked at the same time affect the realease of hormones. More muscles = more hormones.
Your view on squat and which muscles it affects, shows your limited knowledge on exercise theory. Squats affects more than just your quads.
Instead of wasting our time and your own, read some serious training literature like "Supertraining" by Mel C. Siff.
20 rep squats that is.
Nope, squatting in generel
But VOLUME not strength is responcible for hormonal changes. And that builds muscle. 8+ reps
Uh yeah, lets do 10x60 reps - that would build a shitload a muscle acording to your theory.
Number of reps alone means nothing. To stimulate maximum muscle degradation - the hypertrophy response, consider time under tension instead.
You think a muscle cannot grow alone, unless it has been worked directly? Wrong again.
The amount of muscles worked at the same time affect the realease of hormones. More muscles = more hormones.
Your view on squat and which muscles it affects, shows your limited knowledge on exercise theory. Squats affects more than just your quads.
Instead of wasting our time and your own, read some serious training literature like "Supertraining" by Mel C. Siff.
Haz
New member
I blew out my wrists a couple of months ago when I was doing inclines without a spotter. I got the weight stuck on my chest, and it was late at night and I was the only dude in the weight room. So I had to do a 205 lb upright row, while seated to get the damn bar off my lap.
That screwed up my wrists pretty bad. Thats why I still have trouble on any type of straight bar exercise (especially underhand ones).
I'm not saying the bench press is bad. However, I haven't been doing it for 2-3 months now, and I'm still seeing good improvements in my chest. Thats why I say its over-rated. You can still build a great chest without it. Plus I swear i feel my chest more when I do dumbells. You can really squeeze at the top of the movement, and you get an awesome stretch at the bottom.
That screwed up my wrists pretty bad. Thats why I still have trouble on any type of straight bar exercise (especially underhand ones).
I'm not saying the bench press is bad. However, I haven't been doing it for 2-3 months now, and I'm still seeing good improvements in my chest. Thats why I say its over-rated. You can still build a great chest without it. Plus I swear i feel my chest more when I do dumbells. You can really squeeze at the top of the movement, and you get an awesome stretch at the bottom.
One of the best upper body exercise is the flat barbell bench presses. It is not overrated People who ench in the 100's or 200's might think it is overrated. But big benchers in the 400's and up know about it's importance because it is a competitive measure of strength (bench press contest).
Dips are bullshit. They can stress out your shoulders easily and the ones called "bench dips" are the worst!! Just check out someone's shoulders rotated backwards during this! Its a shoulder killer!
Dips are bullshit. They can stress out your shoulders easily and the ones called "bench dips" are the worst!! Just check out someone's shoulders rotated backwards during this! Its a shoulder killer!
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
Lord_Sustanon. First, let me congratulate you on your intelligent post. You truly are more knowledgebale than some people on here. Big congrats.
However I see a small hole in your logic (after cns adaptation, muscle will have to adapt).
Most people never reach their true strength potential. Also MANY people have enough strenth to lift cars (even women), they just dont know how to use it. So by trying to exhaust your strength pathway, lets just say its a long road. And 225 bench surely isnt that much. (most people cant even get that much up. who cares about 400+. )
And you can get very strong (in 1-5) rep range yet dont be big.
Seen Pavel Tsaotsaline? He is like 180 at most and he deadlifts 600 pounds. Now, that is on a pro level. 600 pounds might be easy for you to lift when you weight 250+, but at 180.... He does heavy compound movements going for strenth. Does he grow bigger and bigger muscles? no!
True, when a person is doing 400 pound bench, it DOES do a lot for him in terms of size/strength. But really, how much of us gonna get there? And how much time it would need us to get there to start expereincing quickest possible growth????
Muscle damage -
Yes weight damages muscle, so does the reps that you do. There isnt one way to damage your muscle! You can damage your muscle through lots of sets with lots of reps and little rest time.
Some more about isolation -
Many isolation exercises (pecdeck is prime example) lets you damage your targer muscle (chest) to a greater degree. Why?
Your bench fails because you weaker link (arms shoulders) fail. Chest is much stronger, more fibrous, and thus it becomes underworked while your arms get overworked. See? not that good. In pecdeck you fail WHEN you chest fails.
anyways. good reply you posted! People use him as an example of what an intelligent poster should be like!
Lord_Suston said:
Lord_Sustanon. First, let me congratulate you on your intelligent post. You truly are more knowledgebale than some people on here. Big congrats.
However I see a small hole in your logic (after cns adaptation, muscle will have to adapt).
Most people never reach their true strength potential. Also MANY people have enough strenth to lift cars (even women), they just dont know how to use it. So by trying to exhaust your strength pathway, lets just say its a long road. And 225 bench surely isnt that much. (most people cant even get that much up. who cares about 400+. )
And you can get very strong (in 1-5) rep range yet dont be big.
Seen Pavel Tsaotsaline? He is like 180 at most and he deadlifts 600 pounds. Now, that is on a pro level. 600 pounds might be easy for you to lift when you weight 250+, but at 180.... He does heavy compound movements going for strenth. Does he grow bigger and bigger muscles? no!
True, when a person is doing 400 pound bench, it DOES do a lot for him in terms of size/strength. But really, how much of us gonna get there? And how much time it would need us to get there to start expereincing quickest possible growth????
Muscle damage -
Yes weight damages muscle, so does the reps that you do. There isnt one way to damage your muscle! You can damage your muscle through lots of sets with lots of reps and little rest time.
Some more about isolation -
Many isolation exercises (pecdeck is prime example) lets you damage your targer muscle (chest) to a greater degree. Why?
Your bench fails because you weaker link (arms shoulders) fail. Chest is much stronger, more fibrous, and thus it becomes underworked while your arms get overworked. See? not that good. In pecdeck you fail WHEN you chest fails.
anyways. good reply you posted! People use him as an example of what an intelligent poster should be like!
Alex, strength is NOT SOLELY NEUROLOGICAL. That is truly a dumb comment.
Cross sectional area is directly proportional to strength in many cases. Bodybuilders aren't weak and they don't train AT ALL in a neural potentiating system.
THe problem with Alex is that he reads ONE tidbit of information and immediately thinks he's a genius who can debunk what experts in the field have known for years.
Alex, you are an idiot. You are. You can reply with 'you're a big meanie who only insults people' but the fact is NOBODY here agrees with anything you post.
-Zulu
Cross sectional area is directly proportional to strength in many cases. Bodybuilders aren't weak and they don't train AT ALL in a neural potentiating system.
THe problem with Alex is that he reads ONE tidbit of information and immediately thinks he's a genius who can debunk what experts in the field have known for years.
Alex, you are an idiot. You are. You can reply with 'you're a big meanie who only insults people' but the fact is NOBODY here agrees with anything you post.
-Zulu
SSAlexSS: Show me that you have a solid muscle in your body and I will listen to you. Guys...just let him post his silly comments...we can all figure that he is a troll I do believe. We can not convince him and he can not convince us...so just let him go about his business and ignore him...that way we don't stray too far from the given post that Cornholio posted.
I think that nearly ever exercise that I have ever done (and in any rep/set fashion) has produced some sort of positve result for me...at least for a very short period of time.
Overrated Exercises:
Any kind of machine
Crunches
Anything that says you MUST do reps for size
I really feel that as long as you keep good form on your exercises and change frequently...EVERY exercise will produce some sort of positive result.
B True
I think that nearly ever exercise that I have ever done (and in any rep/set fashion) has produced some sort of positve result for me...at least for a very short period of time.
Overrated Exercises:
Any kind of machine
Crunches
Anything that says you MUST do reps for size
I really feel that as long as you keep good form on your exercises and change frequently...EVERY exercise will produce some sort of positive result.
B True
Lord_Suston
New member
Alex I found one major flaw in your argument, Most powerlifters train for coordination and technique on their events. But when they train it is often not untill failure. For some reason training to failure provides dramatic size gains versus strength training. This is why many BB are often bigger than powerlifters who lift the same MAX weight.Now the mechanism for growth is unclear but going to failure is one major factor. Now that that is out of the way, we can see the ratio of muscles used in compund excercises is much greater than isolated excercises. While performing compound movements more muscle are brought to failure, an important part is when one muscle reaches failure the other ones take up the extra tension untill they reach failure, if the movement allows this. Some don't like bench were your movement is locked in and muscle are used in a certain pattern. Now this growth factor includes the hormones released by taxing muscles, and we cannot dispute the correlation with muscle group size and hormone released. All this needs to take into account you are training to Failure, this by no means degrades isolation movements, they have their place in fine toning and training when injured, but compound bring more size. About the russian powerlifter, see if he trains to failure, he could be a genetic freak. and the example of people lifting cars is good, but that has to do with the overiding of the golgi spindles in the ends of the muscle fiber due to adrenaline surge...
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
ZZuluZ said:
Explain then how little women lift CARS to get their trapped children in there?
Obviously women arent as big as Ronster COleman!
There is no technique there that like clean and jerk gonna jerk it up. Just pure strength baby..
Screwball
New member
Compound vs. Isolation
Compound Movements = Size & Strength
If I could only pick one exercise to train with, it would be the Squat.
If I could pick two exercises for training, they would be the Squat and Flat Bench Press.
If I could pick three exercises for training, they would be the Squat, Flat Bench Press and Deadlift.
If I could pick four exercises for training, they would be the Squat, Flat Bench Press, Deadlift and Clean & Jerk.
That's it! With only a few exceptions every other movement is a variation of the above mentioned movements (i.e. accessory movements). If you want size and strength then stick to the basic, compound movements and train with intensity.
- Screwball
Compound Movements = Size & Strength
If I could only pick one exercise to train with, it would be the Squat.
If I could pick two exercises for training, they would be the Squat and Flat Bench Press.
If I could pick three exercises for training, they would be the Squat, Flat Bench Press and Deadlift.
If I could pick four exercises for training, they would be the Squat, Flat Bench Press, Deadlift and Clean & Jerk.
That's it! With only a few exceptions every other movement is a variation of the above mentioned movements (i.e. accessory movements). If you want size and strength then stick to the basic, compound movements and train with intensity.
- Screwball
Back the original topic.
Most overrated:
- Almost any machine that I can think of
- Pulldowns
-> Lord_Sustanon
btw. I dont agree with the importance of failure when training for size, however I don't wish to clutter up this thread with any more discussion of various non-related issues.
Most overrated:
- Almost any machine that I can think of
- Pulldowns
-> Lord_Sustanon
btw. I dont agree with the importance of failure when training for size, however I don't wish to clutter up this thread with any more discussion of various non-related issues.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
Uh spot the newbie!
I guess that somebody should make the point that Alex has been training for a very short amount of time and hasn't had the chance to figure out how the real world works yet.
Its gotta be said though that this thread is hilarious.....everybody knows that Alex is a dumbass and they still rise to his stupid comments (with a few exceptions). Best laugh I've had in ages......
SSAlexSS said:
Uh spot the newbie!
I guess that somebody should make the point that Alex has been training for a very short amount of time and hasn't had the chance to figure out how the real world works yet.
Its gotta be said though that this thread is hilarious.....everybody knows that Alex is a dumbass and they still rise to his stupid comments (with a few exceptions). Best laugh I've had in ages......
VicTusDeuS
New member
Squats on a smith machine. I hear everyone telling each other how that can build a massive amount of mass on you. I dont think they are as good as lunges with weights. I load up my
ez-curlbar with weight and do all differnt types. My legs are killing me after that...Its great.
ez-curlbar with weight and do all differnt types. My legs are killing me after that...Its great.
Imnotdutch
butler monkey
VicTusDeuS said:
Regular squats work.......never have been a fan of the Smith Machine. Makes life way too easy.....you can load up a heck of alot of weight and still be weak. I guess thats why people like it.
Haz
New member
The smith machine squat puts me in an uncomfortable position. I can probably do more weight on the free squat. I still don't understand what people see in that machine. But I wouldn't call the exercise overrated because very few people rate the exercise to begin with. At my gym there are about 4 people doing free squats (which is still a rare event), to every 1 person doing smith machine squats (a VERY rare event). 95% of people use the smith machine for shoulder press or inclines.
Talking about rare events, the Deadlift has to be the most under-rated lift. I think I'm one of 3 guys at my gym that ever does them, and I go to big busy gym. I stopped doing them for about a year because of problems (still did light stiff leg deads though). Now am back to 100%, and the regular deads I've added is making huge improvemens in my back. Its really staggering, how good this lift is.
Talking about rare events, the Deadlift has to be the most under-rated lift. I think I'm one of 3 guys at my gym that ever does them, and I go to big busy gym. I stopped doing them for about a year because of problems (still did light stiff leg deads though). Now am back to 100%, and the regular deads I've added is making huge improvemens in my back. Its really staggering, how good this lift is.
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
JOKER47 said:
Didn't you ever watch The Incredible Hulk when you were young? It's the Gamma rays, everyone knows that.....Jeez.........
Joker
No. But I guess you werent really into knowledge
THERE WERE incidence when determination overcame some physical proportions. Liek women lifting cars to get their children out.
Your body has mechanisms to protect you from lifting more weight (safety, attitude, etc probelm). When its fight or flight, you can do much more. So what I have said is tru and not fiction.
S
SSAlexSS
Guest
Ash said:
Like dorian yates says:
"Your muscles dont feel a difference between free weights, machine or a spice girl. All they feel is weight" .
SO no he doesnt say that machines are overrated.
VicTusDeuS
New member
well with the way i squat on the machine, when im on my way back up im usually using so much force pushing myself back up and out that i bush the hole machine instead of the bar..
SSAlexSS: I have Dorians Book "Blood and Guts"...and the only machines that he was using in them...were some old hardcore machines. Not the sissy ones I see today. The bic curl or tric pressdown machine will never be as effective as a bar or a dbell...never.
B True
B True
Screwball
New member
b fold is right. I believe Dorian used the old Nautilus machines. I've used these machines personally and they are far superior to the Icarian, Cybex, etc... machines made today for the average weight trainer. These machines had huge weight stacks for heavy, intense lifting. They also mimic the natural strength curve overloading the muscle throughout the entire range of motion. Don't be fooled. Dorian was old school and he trained using the basic compound movements. This is one of the main reasons that he was a champion and his physique dominated his competitors.
- Screwball
- Screwball
Re: Re: Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
I agree. Since Ive stoppe doing compound movements and started doing ONLY drop sets of machine flyes for chest, my pecs have grown like WILD FIRE!
Isolation movements rule ... leg extensions for quads is far better than squats. Crossovers are better than incline and goodmornings blow deadlifts out of the water!
NFG
SSAlexSS said:
I agree. Since Ive stoppe doing compound movements and started doing ONLY drop sets of machine flyes for chest, my pecs have grown like WILD FIRE!
Isolation movements rule ... leg extensions for quads is far better than squats. Crossovers are better than incline and goodmornings blow deadlifts out of the water!
NFG
Arioch
New member
Alex, you really should learn to actually research.
While these sort of things have occured, what happens afterward?
Dramatic pause.
Most of these people have crippled themselves. The mechanism that protect us from injuring ourselves are there for a reason, such as to, oddly enough, protect us from injuring ourselves.
While amazing feats are possible through activation of the adrenal response, there are always consequences. And when one lifts beyond what their physical structure can handle, the structure is damaged.
Lumberg
New member
Cornholio said:
Wow, I definitely disagree with the second 2. Pulldowns are good for people who can't do more than a couple pull ups yet and flat bench is a great compound movement. Yeah it turns into a pissing contest at times but you can vary your grip to target different muscles and there's always a bench even in the shittiest gym.
My most overrated exercises are any curls done standing up--way too easy to cheat.
I don't think incline presses are all that great.
Ab machines are USELESS!
JC
Pissing contest? lol I tend to agree with you...but think that it works on all exercises. People who do not do the flat bench press tend to label it as a "pissing contest" exercise.
Crunches are highly overrated. Full range sit-ups are a must in my opinion.
B True
Crunches are highly overrated. Full range sit-ups are a must in my opinion.
B True
Lumberg
New member
b fold the truth said:
Wow. You're the first person I've heard say that in a LONG time. What is your rationale?
The things I've heard against full range sit-ups are 1) they're bad for your back and 2) There's not that much stress on your abs the last bit of the way up so you might as well just do the "hard" part of the exercise.
Would like to hear the positives.
JC
Louie Simmons suggests to do full range sit ups too...and so do all of his powerlifters.
It is key to train your abs in a full range of motion. If they hurt your back...then something is weak..right? That should point out a big red flag to you...if it hurts your back...it needs to be strengthened. When my back hurts...full range sit ups are about the only thing that will give it relief.
The number 1 reason for a bad back is weak abs. Not non-defined, non-pretty abs...WEAK abs. Strengthen all of them. Crunches are the concentration curl of the abs. They may burn...but they are easy. Never forget that we live in a society of quick fix through making things EASY.
Here is an article or two...
http://www.musclemonthly.com/articles/010115/010115-tate-westside-powerlifting.htm
Shoot...the other pages are temp down...I'll see if I can find some more.
B True
It is key to train your abs in a full range of motion. If they hurt your back...then something is weak..right? That should point out a big red flag to you...if it hurts your back...it needs to be strengthened. When my back hurts...full range sit ups are about the only thing that will give it relief.
The number 1 reason for a bad back is weak abs. Not non-defined, non-pretty abs...WEAK abs. Strengthen all of them. Crunches are the concentration curl of the abs. They may burn...but they are easy. Never forget that we live in a society of quick fix through making things EASY.
Here is an article or two...
http://www.musclemonthly.com/articles/010115/010115-tate-westside-powerlifting.htm
Shoot...the other pages are temp down...I'll see if I can find some more.
B True
ZZuluZ said:
So do squats, deads, walking...etc. If you feel them in your hip flexors...that means that you have weak hip flexors which will affect your strength in the squat, dead, and overall back and ab strength. Not having obliques will not get you very far in bodybuilding either...I see the pics of the pros...and they have obliques.
B True
Lumberg
New member
ZZuluZ said:
B fold is not a bodybuilder. He is a soon-to-be World's Strongest Man. I think that it is apparent even if this thread is the only thing you've read on here that he is talking more about powerlifting than bodybuilding. He even makes the distinction between "pretty abs" and "strong abs." Therefore, if you want to squat and deadlift heavy, maybe you should consider incorporating situps into your schedule. Otherwise, don't worry about it.
JC
I am far from a bodybuilder guys...I really am. I do believe that the hip flexors are muscles that most people avoid because they feel that they should avoid them. Remember...we are all a part of the sport of progressive resistance training...that means progrressively heavier and more intense weight training. The hip flexors help with the body's ability to train all of those muscles.
Full range sit ups also re-align the lower back.
B True
Full range sit ups also re-align the lower back.
B True
scruples
New member
machines... no question...
the vast majority of them involve giving the user some sort of mechanical advantage (using pulleys and levers), making people think that they can lift more weight than they actually can (probably why machines are so popular)...
it's all about squats and deadlifts.. once i started doing 'em i became stronger across the board...
one caveat though, i think that machines do have a place in many work outs, just as long as they are used infrequently to "change things up" in your workout routine...
the vast majority of them involve giving the user some sort of mechanical advantage (using pulleys and levers), making people think that they can lift more weight than they actually can (probably why machines are so popular)...
it's all about squats and deadlifts.. once i started doing 'em i became stronger across the board...
one caveat though, i think that machines do have a place in many work outs, just as long as they are used infrequently to "change things up" in your workout routine...
Welsh power house
New member
Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
You are a complete cunt alex
SSAlexSS said:
You are a complete cunt alex
louden_swain
New member
Re: Re: Most overrated exercises.......
You need some help.
SSAlexSS said:
You need some help.
D
Debaser
Guest
Cornholio said:
I disagree wholeheartedly. Straight-bar curls may be "overemphasized," but they are definately a solid exercise.
Pulldowns are good for a few reasons
1. If you're too weak to do many pullups.
2. More consistant progress (you're adding to the weight stack constantly, not worrying about your own fluctuating weight plus whatever is on the weight belt)
3. If you're at an extreme size level and just can't do as many pullups as you want reps.
Flat bench, okay I guess our definitions of overrated are different. This exercise is outstanding for building the chest, and to a lesser extent triceps and shoulders. Now dips can work just as well (despite following the same BW stipulations as the pullup) and arguably so can incline/decline presses, but that doesn't mean the flat bench is overrated. It is perhaps overemphasized just as the curl is.
My definition of overrated would be an exercise that is common but has the following attributes:
1. Can lead to injury, even done in proper form.
2. Has far superior alternatives.
For example, leg extensions. These cause excessive shearing force on the knee. Oh but, they give your quads a good pump. But do you really think these are doing more for your legs than a squat, leg press, or deadlift? How bout you concentrate on those and stop overtraining with all those worthless extra sets of extensions.
Flyes/pecdeck/crossovers. Ridiculous. Fucks up your shoulders in the long run for most people. And again, what do these do that benches/dips don't? Oh yeah, give your chest a good pump. Are you seeing where most bodybuilders' priorities lie?
Upright rows. Iffy because they aren't really seen enough to be considered overrated IMO. However, not only do they fuck up your rotator cuffs AND give you carpal tunnel, but they have the added bonus of doing virtually nothing for the muscle groups they target. Start doing better exercises.
I could go on with a few others but you get the point. Also bfold, the comment about machines DOES apply to many, but I have found most Hammer Strength machines to be of excellent value. I have had a lot of success with their chest press, for example.
D
Debaser
Guest
One you do with dumbells, one you do with cables. They're the same movement. With the same risk in fucking up your shoulders.
I would take flat dumbell benchpress over regular bench press anyday of the week. Its much easier to feel the resistance in your pecs when using dumbells.
Most overrated? Umm.. Ab machines and pec decs.
Btw don't dizz cable crossovers. I love to finnish of my pec workout on the cable. The feeling in my pecs are just awesome.
Most overrated? Umm.. Ab machines and pec decs.
Btw don't dizz cable crossovers. I love to finnish of my pec workout on the cable. The feeling in my pecs are just awesome.
b fold the truth said:
Fuckin'-A!
Some machines are actually very good for bodybuilding, but Dorian didn't use lots of machines that had a barbell or DB analogue; e.g., the Nautilus Pullover machine. Awesome lat movement.
The only machine exercise King D did, to my knowledge, that I would frown on is the Smith machine squat; however, he did so for specific reasons.
Lumberg said:
All this nonsensical crap about situps being bad for you and crunches being the ideal exercise started when Legendary Abs was published by Health For Life back in the early 80's. Their basic premise was that situps and leg raises primarily worked the hip flexors and the abs were only synergists in those movements. That is true. However, the hip flexors are muscles that are involved in a wide range of movements both in weight lifting and in sport - you want to work them because you want them to be strong. That same idiotic book warned against doing side bends and twists because they might make your oblique muscles bigger and detract from your V-taper. God forbid a muscle should get bigger
. The really scary part was that they targeted this book not only towards body builders, but towards boxers, martial artists, and other real athletes.
D
Debaser
Guest
Peckz said:
Yeah, even though pec deck and cable crossovers are also the same type of movement. You will hurt your shoulders, eventually. Just give it time. Who cares if the feeling in your pecs is awesome? Leg extensions are the same way for your quads--but they still suck ass.
Debaser said:
That's a pretty large blanket statement, and I disagree.
When I use to do more of a body building style of workout, I did cable cross-overs and/or DB fly's. There was never any pain in my shoulders.
If you are getting pain in your shoulders from those movements, I suspect you either have a pre-existing shoulder problem, really poor form, or your shoulders/rotator cuffs are way to weak. In which case, you need to work on your weakness.
.02,
Joker
Lumberg
New member
Rich_S said:
All this nonsensical crap about situps being bad for you and crunches being the ideal exercise started when Legendary Abs was published by Health For Life back in the early 80's. Their basic premise was that situps and leg raises primarily worked the hip flexors and the abs were only synergists in those movements. That is true. However, the hip flexors are muscles that are involved in a wide range of movements both in weight lifting and in sport - you want to work them because you want them to be strong. That same idiotic book warned against doing side bends and twists because they might make your oblique muscles bigger and detract from your V-taper. God forbid a muscle should get bigger
Well you learn something new every day.
But I do say that if you are working on aesthetics that you CAN make your obliques too big. Happened to me. I'm not fat by any means but it still looks kinda like I have love handles!
D
Debaser
Guest
JOKER47 said:
There may have not been pain in your shoulders. There wasn't any pain in mine. Just like many people squat with elevated heels for years without knee problems.
And you say more of a bodybuilding style of workout. As if somehow flyes will magically do more for your chest than a 400 lb bench. It holds about as much water as saying preacher curls add peak to your biceps.
B
Baoh
Guest
Rich_S said:
Everyone knows that preacher curls develop the peak of your biceps just like cable crossovers develop your inner chest and higher reps with any exercise bring out the cuts.
lmao
Debaser said:
So, please make your point. You were mentioning how bad they are for shoulders, and neither you nor I had a problem. So, where are you getting your information that they are so bad? Any lift done incorrectly will hurt you.
Debaser said:
Meaning, my overall goals were different, and the goal of each workout was different. Similiar to our different training plans. Yours (DC) targeted toards bodybuilding. Mine (modified WSB) targeted towards power lifting/strength training.
How many power lifters or strongmen do you know do preacher curls or flys? How many bodybuilders do you know who do? That's my point.
.02,
Joker
D
Debaser
Guest
JOKER47 said:
Here's one such article: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/matt20.htm
I've seen quite a few but that's the only one I had the location of off hand.
It doesn't matter what your goal is. If you want hypertrophy, flyes suck. If you want chest strength, flyes suck. Bench presses or dips are far superior. And most bodybuilders have little idea what they're doing. Powerlifters, in general, have a much better grasp on things.
Debaser said:
Interesting article. I see yur point if you do flys on an incline. I always did mine on a flat bench. Following the article, flast seems to be far "safer".
Personally, I disagree with you as far a flys sucking for hypertrophy. As a finishing move for me, it provoded a great pump, and put my chest at total exhaustion for the end of my workout. For strength, I agree with you totally. No point in doing them.
I won't comment on the last statement as that is a very strong and blanket comment which I do not want to be a part of. No offense.
Good debate.
Joker
500 situps a day because "I just want to get rid of this spare tire"
