diet, training are most important. the compound you should give your rat that he might like is like dylan said above. uniquemicals has a good deal going .. also GW is something to try as well.
I lost 30 pounds one time in 1 month though back in my mid 20's when i had let myself go. just by changing up my diet. i do think those 2 compounds you named can be counter productive because they wreck your heart and thyroid. and yes i have tried them both.
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