Let's talk about REALISTIC bodyfat goals

[JJFigure]

For those of you wanting to achieve fitness competitor level of leaness, put down the Oxygen mag and listen to me for a minute. You can't maintain the level of leaness you see in the mags. Period. If you attempt to get that lean and maintain it, you will lose all your muscle and start looking like Ally McBeal.

It's really hard (REALLY HARD) to get as lean as the women we see in the mags. Do you really want to do a 12-16 week diet cycle where you measure all your food and count all your kcals and protein/carbs/fat grams? Do double workouts/cardio sessions? Because that's what it takes, and it's only really worth doing if you plan to step on stage and compete. Otherwise, I personally can't recommend doing it. Attempting to achieve competiiton level of leaness drives you just a little bit insane.

Set realistic bodyfat goals, and don't set them as you're paging through a fitness magazine. I found a bodyfat level I can be relatively happy with post season; a weight I know I can diet down to competition bodyfat within 12 weeks (although I plan to do a 14 week diet cycle next time), and that's my maintenance bodyfat. Even at that maintenance weight, I have to keep an eye on what I eat and work out religiously (not hard when you love to lift, but cardio still sucks). And, at that bodyweight I have very little lower body definition. I just accept that to build and keep muscle, you can't maintain 12% or less bodyfat. And I honestly should probably go to a higher maintenance bodyfat, but it's SO HARD to lose bodyfat for competition, I've chosen to live with a lower maintenance bodyfat as long as I'm competing.

I don't mean to come across negative; as women, we need to learn to accept we're meant to have a certain amount of bodyfat and we need to learn to love our bodies and quit setting unrealistic goals. That being said, time to go measure out my breakfast. 2 more weeks of this insanity!

 

[Vixi]

Wow! Glad you said it, JJ!
I read my Oxygen and M&F Hers backwards and forwards several times when a new issue comes out. I know that the fitness gals in those magazines are in a class by themselves but it is easy for less experienced women to buy into those images as permanent goals. The Jan. 2002 Oxygen is already out and Mocha Lee (5'6" tall) is on the cover. I think she looks amazing and would LOVE to achieve her look. In reading her stats and training tips it says that she typically carries 12-13% body fat at 1,700 calories daily 140lbs) off season and 10% body fat and 1,500 calories for contest (130lbs). I just don't know but doesn't that calorie intake sound low for a highly active person?

I suppose it is like when teenagers look in Cosmo or Elle and see those sick, emaciated models and think that is their ideal. Not really considering that their goal is not attainable on a permanent basis. A lot of women can fall into a similar mindset and see fitness models and go the same route, leading to disappointment.

But it can also be pretty motivating. I set my goal at 15% body fat. I suppose I need to revise my backup plan and not beat myself up if I don't quite make it. Or if I make it and can't stick to that level. My gym says that 20-33% body fat is what is healthy for women. (This gym is part of a grant/study from the local hospital.) 33% sounds pretty high. Even 25% sounds high. You just don't often read where a fitness model is 22% body fat off season. Guess that is taboo to tell?

It would be interesting to know the body fat % of EF women; off season competitors and those who just want to look great. Not the perfect number but the everyday version.

 

[Sassy69]

Good post! I think the first thing to determine is whether or not your goals are to compete or not. Have you ever seen those pix of Lee Priest off season ??? Holy God, he was a porker, but ripped to shreds on stage! Let's also not forget that the women shown in these magazines are dedicated professionally to this sort of competition -- but I'd like to hear what the older former competitors say about going through those swings in weight/body fat over years of competition and what its done to their metabolism later in life. And, btw, do you think any of those magazines are going to list the chemical help these women get to maintain those physiques?

EDUCATION! EDUCATION! EDUCATION!

 

[VeggieLifterChick]

Good post JJ.

Vixi asked what everyone's normal bf% is. Mine is 22-24. I feel like that's very high though, because I have the impression that most EF women have a bf in the teens. My goal has been to get to 16-18% and maintain it, and I've never gotten to that point and maintained it for more than a couple weeks. That's mainly because as JJ said it requires counting cals and grams and measuring portions and it just gets a little insane after awhile.

Lately I have been realizing that I have maintenance figured out to a T. If I lift 3-4 days a week and I do cardio 45 mins 4 times a week and I watch what I eat I will perfectly maintain at 135 and 22-24% body fat.

I have been thinking I'll try 6 days of cardio and add in sprints for a day or 2 instead of what I'd normally do, and throw in some r-ala, and be sure to eat clean. Once I've been doing that for awhile, I expect to look like I've been doing it. Whatever that is will hopefully be good enough for me. I'm so tired of setting goals I can't reach without discipline I don't have. I really want to compete but after having given contest dieting a shot this summer I realize that it is INSANITY to attempt to get that lean from a maintenance bf% in the 20s.

 

[hardbdygrl]

It's really hard (REALLY HARD) to get as lean as the women we see in the mags. Do you really want to do a 12-16 week diet cycle where you measure all your food and count all your kcals and protein/carbs/fat grams? Do double workouts/cardio sessions? Because that's what it takes, and it's only really worth doing if you plan to step on stage and compete. Otherwise, I personally can't recommend doing it. Attempting to achieve competiiton level of leaness drives you just a little bit insane.

you can't maintain 12% or less bodyfat.

JJ i am going to have to disagree here.... I have kept my B/f at about 7-8% for a long time and i dont seem to be losing any muscle mass, nor am i doing Double amounts of cardio.. I do watch what i eat, but i dont kill my self on cardio.
But everyone is different... but i just wanted to say that it is NOT impossible to be lean all the time.

 

[ariel]

Hardbodygirl,

are you or were you able to this without any assitance? I believe that JJ is indeed and has always trained without any AS, and from the info I gathered on this board and in real life, women hoping or trying to stay below 10% for any length of time need to be ON...

So JJ, I compeletly agree that naturally being very lean and keeping it is near impossible...But, with chemical assistance, one could stay pretty lean for long periods of time.

ariel

 

[rez]

i just tested my bf% today..came in at 15%. When I first started on this board I was 22%. So Im pretty happy with the change.
The only things is that im constantly thinking abou tmy diet, how I can improve it etc etc...I wish I could relax once in a while, but then I realise that relaxing wouldnt be worth it...being leaner is better.
its tough having a shitting metabolism...but im trying not to focus so much on lower body fat, but other goals such as increased strength and better body shape/posture.

ide have to agree that those magazines are inpirartion to keep at it...along with u guys on this board

 

[JJFigure]

Yes, Ariel, I was refering to staying lean without the help of anabolic substances. And you're right, Sassy, chances are some of the women (probably quite a few, actually) featured in the mags are getting a little chemical assistance. When I first started my quest to get lean, I thought it would be as simple as working out consistently and watching your diet a little. Instead, it's a much more difficult process than I had imagined - especially when you're trying to do it naturally. That's the part that no one talks about in the mags.

To get as lean as I want for this competition (where the leanest girls always win), I've had to lower my kcals to 1500 kcals/day during the week, and on my carb loads days I eat 2000 and 1750 kcals on Sat and Sun - giving me a 1600 kcal/day average. This is obnoxiously low IMO. I don't think natty competitors should do a ton of cardio either, since it tends to chew up the muscle, but I've had to start doing 2 short sessions (morning and evening) to keep my metabolism moving. Factor in the lifting and stretching, and I seriously have no life. I don't seem to be losing my muscle since I'm lifting so heavy right now, but if I tried to continue this level of kcals for much longer, it's inevitable I'd lose some serious muscle. Luckily, I only have to live like this for 2 more weeks.

 

[BrickGirl]

contest before I got down to 114, last contest got down to 119, next day after contest and after getting water back in was at 125, next day 128, gonna try to keep it under 130, I can keep it there without sacraficing much muscle, but there will be no cardio at all or I would wilt away. I am back on my base diet, in which is the same as contest diet, but the contest diet is 3/4's the carbs. Protein will be around 190 and it should sustain the muscle. So i will be about 11 pounds over my contest weight, I hope I can maintain that, we shall see

 

[jstar]

Informative post JJ, and I just got the new Oxygen mag today!!!

I will be starting my precontest diet 4 months out (working with a trainer who is helping me out on this - for my first show), right now I am cleaning up my diet and trying to gain some more muscle. I have always been around 22% bodyfat but I hope to stay slightly leaner in between contests so I won't have to diet so hard. I think 17-18% is probably realistic for me in between contets (figure) rather than trying to stay real lean like the fitness models. I mean, once they reach that level of fame they might be called for a photo shoot at any given time so they do have to stay near competition condition.

For the non-competitor though I think everyone has their own specific level of bodyfat they feel comfortable with which is achieved by a diet that is mostly clean but is not ultra-strict, and a weight training and cardio routine that fits your lifestyle/schedule.

 

[JJFigure]

I realize I never posted my bodyfat % - there's a reason; I don't really believe the % reading I'm getting. In case no one's noticed, I'm a very self-reliant person, so I wanted to do my bodyfat readings/measurements, etc. myself ("no one else to blame" type of mentality). I bought a digital caliper, and offseason, my bodyfat reading using this type of caliper ranges around 7%. Yeah, right. Considering the hardest of the hard fitness competitors come into contest at 8%, I pretty much assumed the calipers read fairly low - at least 3-4% low if not more. Right now, 2 weeks out from comp, they're giving me a 5% bodyfat reading. Again, yeah, right. I think I have reason to not trust this type of caliper.

So, I gave up on the bodyfat readings for the last comp and for this comp. I knew I couldn't lose upper body mass and stay balanced, so I'm using measurements to monitor my muscle loss. If my upper body measurements started to decrease, I was going to bump the kcals; luckily, that hasn't happened, I think mainly due to the amounts of protein I'm eating and the PL type lifting I'm doing.

Post-season, I'll keep my weight around 136 lbs., and I'll try not to complain too much about not putting on muscle very easily since I know that's too low a maintenance weight to really build muscle (see my "it's so hard to lose fat" argument in the first post). Normally I come into contest at 130, but this time I'm at 128 - again, pretty scary number for a 5'10 hard-core lifting woman.

Just curious, BrickGirl - did you measure your bodyfat %? Or did you give up on that approach too?

 

[BrickGirl]

gave up a long time ago, could careless once I started having veins go from the very low part of my abs up into my chest, I didn't think it really mattered

 

[JJFigure]

Exactly! Aren't those lower ab veins a trip? Almost feels like guitar strings when you run your fingers across them.

 

[makedah]

For the non-competitor though I think everyone has their own specific level of bodyfat they feel comfortable with which is achieved by a diet that is mostly clean but is not ultra-strict, and a weight training and cardio routine that fits your lifestyle/schedule.

I agree. I'm obese now (37% BF as of July) I want to be leaner - as best as I can imagine, what I would look like at "goal" would be around 22-25% BF. That's cool by me! I marvel at how strict some of the diets here are (even when not cutting). Your avatars are lovely, but I'm not willing to make the sacrifices to look the same way (assuming I could get there). I love food far too much!

 

[SteelWeaver]

Don't have much time this morning, but just wanted to say: excellent post JJ. Those women look really hot, but I just keep telling myself they just did a comp, or probably have some "aid" and I look hot right after a comp. too, so ... whatever.

My next goal is to cycle dieting and hypercaloric eating in order to get to a bf that's close enough to comp to mean only 12 - 16 weeks reasonable dieting, and somehow maintain that - I'm not interested in try to stay comp. lean - too hard. I want to relax now and then. I know I can be strict, so it's not such a big issue. If I need to come down a bit, snap, no prob.

Now you hang in there girl - I know it's tough - just 2 more weeks now - and you're gonna be great

 

[Nonerz]

Set realistic bodyfat goals, and don't set them as you're paging through a fitness magazine.

guilty

we need to learn to accept we're meant to have a certain amount of bodyfat and we need to learn to love our bodies and quit setting unrealistic goals.

umm...working on it...


Yes, I'm a self-professed Oxygen addict. I look forward to my monthly "fix" and actually can't wait to do cardio so I can rip through the pages and ingest as much information, inspiration, and motivation as possible. I am guilty, guilty, guilty of comparing myself to the girls in the magazine...who basically work out for a living!

And while I (honestly) hated to read your post JJ, I think it was meant for me! While I'm no "Oxygen Girl," I must admit that would be my ideal bodytype. So what's a girl to do? A girl's gotta have goals right? So what is REALISTIC anyway? Last time I was measured I was about 21% bf...which is...better than a year ago, but definitely not where I want to stay.

I think the magazines have their place...maybe I/we just need to keep things in perspective!

 

[rez]

when r u gona post some pics steel?

 

[JJFigure]

I think we're all guilty, Nonerz. What I'm having to do to achieve that level of leaness is just a little nuts, though. My Dad basically summed it up when he called this weekend - first words out of his mouth were "are you working out, or getting ready for bed?". LOL

Not to mention how many times during these diet cycles I've become frustrated enough to consider using AS - especially after I found out what some of the pros were taking. I like being natural though, so that solution is out. And luckily, each contest I come in leaner - it's just taking more trial and error and time than I ever anticipated.

 

[SteelWeaver]

when r u gona post some pics steel?

Hey rez. Pity you didn't come to the show - it was fun - very good atmosphere. My sister's visiting right now, so I'm kind of busy showing her around and still trying to fit in training. I'll probably put one or two up in a couple of weeks. There are actually pics up on the Gay Games web site - physique Day 1, Women's Open. I'm the tall, plump chick, lol. (Just kidding, I wasn't plump, just not lean enough, and I beat 2 other girls, so it's all good, and it was great fun )

Hey JJ - are you set on remaining natural ad infinitum? Is that a set thing, not requiring much thought, or is it something you periodically reconsider? Strangely, I found myself sort of idly wondering the other day if I'll ever do a cycle, and what it might feel like. Like maybe in about 10 years, lol.

 

[Ceebs]

There are actually pics up on the Gay Games web site - physique Day 1, Women's Open. I'm the tall, plump chick, lol. (Just kidding, I wasn't plump, just not lean enough, and I beat 2 other girls, so it's all good, and it was great fun )

Pictures are here, for anyone interested: http://www.picturesystems.com/eventimages/findpicadv.cfm?searchtype=race&loclist=43

No plump chicks to be seen, though, by my eye.

 

[Cheetarah]

Most awesome post JJFigure!! That's the best damn post pertaining directly to women I've ever read!! I enjoyed reading others' responses to it as well!

I wish I would've been able to read something like this when I first decided I wanted to look like a fitness competitor, might have saved me some agony. Eh, then again, I lie, I'm the stubborn type and probably would've had to learn the hard way anyway, lol.

But here is what I learned thru all this dieting, as I was trying to get down to 12% body fat (which never happened)...

I've learned that my genetic setpoint is 18% body fat, bottom line. My body absolutely REFUSES to go below that without a fight. And even to maintain here at 18%, I eat pretty darn close to if I was on a cutting diet. I eat clean and maintain about a 40%P/30%C/30%F diet. The only difference really, is that I don't count my calories, I pretty much let my appetite dictate but I do control the portions. To get below 18% body fat I basically have to fight my body tooth and nail. I did get down to 15%, I can do that in about 3-4 weeks by cutting my calories but then I basically have to live being hungry ALL THE TIME (and friggin starve the first 2 weeks), just to maintain that! It really sucks, who wants to live the rest of their life like that? Not me, so for me, under 18% body fat is unrealistic to maintain. Unfortunately my genetics will not allow me to be under 18% body fat. Those of you who can maintain under 18% with no problem, as in not having to count calories and such, are very lucky, your genetics obviously allow you to do that (of course I'm talking natural without any chemical help).

So anyway, great subject! We women really do need to learn to be happy with our bodies the way they are, like it was said before, our bodies are MEANT to carry more body fat than men. We were not designed to be that lean. It's difficult though, I'd love to have more definition in my abs and legs but I have to try and talk myself into being satisfied with how I look now cause it's either that or fight with my body the rest of my life! And I certainly don't want that either.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Are you the one in grey that only has front double bi shots?

I was wearing a bright blue suit, hair about half ear length, with highlights, number 72, no abs, but brilliant posing routine (oh, sorry, you can't see that part, heh heh). I can't see the pics here at work, only looked at them briefly a few weeks ago, can't remember, will check at home later.

Thanks for the link Ceebs. Sorry JJ - we've hijacked your thread, but it sort of fits, considering what I put myself through to get on that stage.

Oh - the tattoos might help - orchid on right upper arm, octopus below left breast, tiger on left shoulder blade, dragon above right breast.

 

[JJFigure]

Hey JJ - are you set on remaining natural ad infinitum? Is that a set thing, not requiring much thought, or is it something you periodically reconsider?

I have to confess, Steel, I have moments when I think how stupid am I to not consider doing a cycle when everyone else seems to be doing them? After all, I've been lifting heavily for 11 years now - it's not like I haven't given myself time. So far, though, I don't think I need to do a cycle to stay competitive in the federations I compete in. At the time I feel I HAVE to do a cycle to stay competitive, then I need to decide if I still want to compete.

In other words, yes, I do periodically reconsider my natural choice.

 

[JJFigure]

And you're right Cheeterah - it just seems like you're fighting a serious battle with your body the entire time you're cutting. I'm not saying women shouldn't try it - it's a good exercise in discipline, at the very least - just be prepared for a long, hard road. Unless you're one of those lucky, genetically blessed people I keep hearing rumors about. Never met one, personally.

Hey Steel - great pics! I was looking for the tall, plump girl, but couldn't find her - instead, I saw a hottie in a blue bikini w/ tattoos.

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thanks JJ As you know, I wasn't where I was aiming for, but the experience was worth a thousand trophies. And with practice I will become a force to be reckoned with (or something like that, lol )

I checked the numbers: pics #238, 240, 295, 297, 301 aren't too bad. The relaxed poses above that show off my squishy tummy pretty badly, but whatever. There were squishier people, lol.

On the dieting topic - I have the drive and discipline to stick to a pre-comp diet that is temporary and finite - I can't imagine trying to stay very lean just for leaness' sake. I'd just like to find a semi-comfortable medium, where I feel and look good, and can keep building but can cut fairly easily from.

Thanks for the thoughts on the AAS topic, JJ. I think before doing a cycle to compete, I'd ask myself WHY I'm competing, and if AAS would fulfil whatever that reason is. My objectives in competing right now are simply the challenge, the discipline, the drive, the learning curve, the thrill. Placings don't really mean anything for the moment. I suppose if I had desires to go pro or whatever it would be a completley different story.

 

[makedah]

Steel - I thought you looked really great!

 

[VeggieLifterChick]

Steel,

You look hot! Your lats are nice and wide, and your shoulders are poppin! Very impressive! You definitely don't look plump. You look nothing like I thought you would. Not only are you lean, but I had pictured you as a short asian girl.

 

[MS]

Thanks JJ. A truly great post.

 

[wilson6]

15% is reasonable in someone that has been relatively lean most of their life. If you allowed yourself to get fat young or recently, or really blew up with pregnancy, then it will be tough to get below 20% unless you have the genetic potential.

Most of the chicks in the figure/fitness mags are juiced and/or genetic freaks.

I knew only a couple of chicks that didn't have eating disorders (college cheerleaders or varsity athletes) that were able to hang around 12 - 15% with training and live and eat normally but clean as well.

W6

 

[makedah]

Ahh, genetics. My sister is one of those low BF "freaks." I, on the other hand got fat in my mid-twenties, but even at my most 'fit' as a teen or young adult I was probably around 20% BF with big boobies and a gooey, poochy tummy. Thanks, Ma!