lean bulk on SARM's log

[bigorse]

hey guys,

i will be logging a SARM cycle that will look pretty much as follows maybe with some minor changes, input it welcome!

1-12 ostarine 25mg ed
4-12 S4 30-60mg tapered up 2ed
5-18 pramipexole 100mcg-500mcg tapered up and down ed
12-15 DAA 3g ed
13-16 nolvadex (40,20,20,10)

low dose letrozole if needed (im estrogen prone) id rather use aromasin but couldn't find a decent source here in australia.

currently reverse dieting off contest prep as a full natty so this will be a lean bulk.

stats
5 7
175lbs 9% bodyfat
never used sarms or anabolics
training 4 years

hope you guys enjoy!

 

[bigorse]

also ostarine weeks 1-8 and s4 is from uniquemicals the rest is from towering labs.

day 1- trained shoulder and triceps felt normal
day 2- trained back, biceps and calves. training was as normal but the pump was absolutely insane! felt like my skin was going to split, still feel pumped typing this 2 hours post workout. also i felt "good" today but that could be from anything.

 

[jstirk1]

What method are you using to calculate BF of 9%... just want to get an idea for comparative sake. Thanks.

 

[bigorse]

Just rough estimation, just come off an aborted comp prep but I was starting to get glute striations at what was 9 weeks out, so I'm not throwing a bs number out there

 

[Elvia1023]

Why are you running pramipexole?

 

[bigorse]

2 reasons, for the GH release with peptides being very difficult to get in Australia and the second reason is I had pubertal gyno which is gone now but I still have puffy nips and wanted to see if prami would help, what are your thoughts?

 

[bigorse]

Another question should prami be treated like a GHRP or GHRH as far as macronutrient timing for optimal growth hormone release?

 

[bigorse]

Day 3- trained chest and calves, strength was good (keep in mind calories are increasing too so this is helping) pump was insane even in 6-8 rep sets. Muscles are looking fuller, loving it so far!
Only side so far is that I was hungry than usual which some may like but even though I'm bulking I do not need extra help wanting to eat!

 

[Elvia1023]

2 reasons, for the GH release with peptides being very difficult to get in Australia and the second reason is I had pubertal gyno which is gone now but I still have puffy nips and wanted to see if prami would help, what are your thoughts?

Have you seen my thread on prami? I love the stuff but most have to be very careful with it. I keep my dose very low and haven't really used it much recently. I just wondered but sounds like you have a very valid reason to use it. I would run the prami till the start of your pct.

 

[Elvia1023]

Another question should prami be treated like a GHRP or GHRH as far as macronutrient timing for optimal growth hormone release?

No I wouldn't worry about timing in regards to food. Even with GH peps it's only high fat and fast acting carbs you have to time imo. GH release with prami has been shown most significant 2 hours post administration. You have to be careful when dosing it as it can disrupt sleep due to it's effects on dopamine. The key is starting very low and building up the dose (which you are doing). Many struggle with tiredness when dosing it in the day. I 100% think pre bed timing is best but you may have to play about with it to see what works best for you. I think anywhere from 4 hours pre bed to just before you go to sleep is optimal. I would start at 2 hours pre bed and see how you are with that.

 

[bigorse]

No I wouldn't worry about timing in regards to food. Even with GH peps it's only high fat and fast acting carbs you have to time imo. GH release with prami has been shown most significant 2 hours post administration. You have to be careful when dosing it as it can disrupt sleep due to it's effects on dopamine. The key is starting very low and building up the dose (which you are doing). Many struggle with tiredness when dosing it in the day. I 100% think pre bed timing is best but you may have to play about with it to see what works best for you. I think anywhere from 4 hours pre bed to just before you go to sleep is optimal. I would start at 2 hours pre bed and see how you are with that.

Thanks heaps man, I was going to start at 100mcg ed and slowly work up. I train ussualy late afternoon about 3 -4 hours before bed so I was thinking taking prami post work out would be Best?

 

[bigorse]

Have you seen my thread on prami? I love the stuff but most have to be very careful with it. I keep my dose very low and haven't really used it much recently. I just wondered but sounds like you have a very valid reason to use it. I would run the prami till the start of your pct.

What is the reason for running prami until start of pct? My reasoning for running it so long is that I wanted to taper up and down very slowly to try avoid sides as best possible. I'd start it at week 1 but i don't have it on hand, still waiting for the shipment to arrive.
again I really appreciate your help brother.

 

[bigorse]

hey everyone

today was my 4th day on ostarine. i had a family event to attend to today so i woke up and trained abs, calves and a tiny bit of arms fasted then went and pigged out on some of grandma amazing food! probably 4000+ kcal. again training was pretty decent, pump was alright considering i was fasted. i trained arms again at about 6 30pm feeling really strong and pump was good again, muscles looking round and full all in all loving ostarine so far, except the taste of it, its pretty disgusting!

really looking forward to adding s4 into the mix in three weeks time too.

 

[Elvia1023]

What is the reason for running prami until start of pct? My reasoning for running it so long is that I wanted to taper up and down very slowly to try avoid sides as best possible. I'd start it at week 1 but i don't have it on hand, still waiting for the shipment to arrive.
again I really appreciate your help brother.

No real reason and your plan is sound. Prami doesn't effect sex hormones so you can run it as long as you want. Although I don't recommend running dopamine agonists too long (unless you have a medical reason) due to their obvious effects on brain chemistry. Taper very slowly going up but if 0.5mg is your max dose you don't need to taper down over too long. Let me know how you get on with it.

 

[Elvia1023]

hey everyone

today was my 4th day on ostarine. i had a family event to attend to today so i woke up and trained abs, calves and a tiny bit of arms fasted then went and pigged out on some of grandma amazing food! probably 4000+ kcal. again training was pretty decent, pump was alright considering i was fasted. i trained arms again at about 6 30pm feeling really strong and pump was good again, muscles looking round and full all in all loving ostarine so far, except the taste of it, its pretty disgusting!

really looking forward to adding s4 into the mix in three weeks time too.

Good stuff. I have tried most things but not tried ostarine yet but plan to in the next few months

 

[bigorse]

Good stuff. I have tried most things but not tried ostarine yet but plan to in the next few months

i may go higher than 500mcg with prami but i will see how it affects me. i would like to run LGD 4033 in the future as well, if ostarine is this good after less than a week on, im exited for LGD. would mind trying sarms along with some proviron to, in theory the extra free test should help the effectiveness off sarms, il log everything for you guys

 

[bigorse]

Good stuff. I have tried most things but not tried ostarine yet but plan to in the next few months

i may go higher than 500mcg with prami but i will see how it affects me. i would like to run LGD 4033 in the future as well, if ostarine is this good after less than a week on, im exited for LGD. would mind trying sarms along with some proviron to, in theory the extra free test should help the effectiveness off sarms, il log everything for you guys

 

[bigorse]

day 5

only managed to train for about 30 minutes today due being inundated with school work. trained shoulder and calves, good intensity, decent pump and motivation was insane, had to will myself away from the weights to come back and finish my studies. still dosing at 25mg every morning, so far so good.

 

[Elvia1023]

day 5

only managed to train for about 30 minutes today due being inundated with school work. trained shoulder and calves, good intensity, decent pump and motivation was insane, had to will myself away from the weights to come back and finish my studies. still dosing at 25mg every morning, so far so good.

Good stuff. I trained legs today and had to go to work straight after

What did you do for calves?

 

[bigorse]

Good stuff. I trained legs today and had to go to work straight after

What did you do for calves?

been hitting them every day with high reps for the last 2 weeks or so, trying something new trying to force growth into one of the most stubborn muscles known to man

 

[Elvia1023]

been hitting them every day with high reps for the last 2 weeks or so, trying something new trying to force growth into one of the most stubborn muscles known to man

I am the same. I pretty much train them everyday in the gym. Really make an effort to press as high on the ball of your feet as possible. You really need to destroy calves... high reps and minimal rest in between sets.

 

[bigorse]

I am the same. I pretty much train them everyday in the gym. Really make an effort to press as high on the ball of your feet as possible. You really need to destroy calves... high reps and minimal rest in between sets.

i have been doing sets of 20-50 reps in-between sets of my working sets instead of just completely resting, keeps me focussed on training. hopefully and extended period in a caloric surplus will yield some decent gains!

 

[bigorse]

Day 6

Feeling really sick today, sore throat and sinus infection, but couldn't keep myself away from lifting. Trained back and calves, only about 30-40 minutes again, good pump as usual and despite being sick strength was noticeable up. Could have trained for another hour or so but decided it was probably best to keep it nice and short and stop once I had achieved a good pump. Already planning my second and third sarm cycles. Safe to say I think I'm hooked....

 

[Elvia1023]

Day 6

Feeling really sick today, sore throat and sinus infection, but couldn't keep myself away from lifting. Trained back and calves, only about 30-40 minutes again, good pump as usual and despite being sick strength was noticeable up. Could have trained for another hour or so but decided it was probably best to keep it nice and short and stop once I had achieved a good pump. Already planning my second and third sarm cycles. Safe to say I think I'm hooked....

Great to hear. Just be careful as sometime when you feel so good in the gym you can overdo things. If you feel sick your body is telling you something. Sometimes I do the same and train and feel great for it. But if you feel sick again I would have a break. Listen to your body is probably the best bodybuilding advice I have ever been given.

Your calf training sounds great... you should improve fast doing that.

 

[bigorse]

Great to hear. Just be careful as sometime when you feel so good in the gym you can overdo things. If you feel sick your body is telling you something. Sometimes I do the same and train and feel great for it. But if you feel sick again I would have a break. Listen to your body is probably the best bodybuilding advice I have ever been given.

Your calf training sounds great... you should improve fast doing that.

yeah i feel sick as today still decided to train for about 3-4 songs, light stuff just to get a little pump in my calves and triceps, pump was amazing again despite being a shitty little training session. if im still sick tomorrow i will just take a complete rest day

day 7 log^^

 

[bigorse]

only downside i have from ostarine so far are the forearm pumps esp. training back, i've had to whip the straps out a few times. whilst this is kind of a downside my forearms do look slightly bigger/fuller.

 

[bigorse]

day 8

still feeling sick, wont be training today. going to the doctors to gets some antibiotics will also see about getting bloods for kidney/liver function and hormones.

 

[Elvia1023]

day 8

still feeling sick, wont be training today. going to the doctors to gets some antibiotics will also see about getting bloods for kidney/liver function and hormones.

Good decision. I hope you feel better soon.

I would get on high dosed vitamin c right now. 2g morning and 2g night time.

 

[bigorse]

Good decision. I hope you feel better soon.

I would get on high dosed vitamin c right now. 2g morning and 2g night time.

just ran out of vit c, damn it! as for bloods im getting fasted blood sugar taken as well as i have returned diabetic levels before but not other times (has more to do with dieting i think) but as for my hormone level bloods do you think i should take my MK2866 before or after the test, or do you not think it will affect the result?

 

[Elvia1023]

just ran out of vit c, damn it! as for bloods im getting fasted blood sugar taken as well as i have returned diabetic levels before but not other times (has more to do with dieting i think) but as for my hormone level bloods do you think i should take my MK2866 before or after the test, or do you not think it will affect the result?

Ostarine has been shown to have a big impact on natural testosterone levels. It can also have a similar effect on estrogen levels. That has been shown even with low dosing. So chances are it will show up on hormonal blood work. It has a relatively long half life (24hrs) so if you are gonna stop I would do it soon. Although if it were me I would just carry on and see what effect it is actually having on your hormone levels.

 

[bigorse]

Ostarine has been shown to have a big impact on natural testosterone levels. It can also have a similar effect on estrogen levels. That has been shown even with low dosing. So chances are it will show up on hormonal blood work. It has a relatively long half life (24hrs) so if you are gonna stop I would do it soon. Although if it were me I would just carry on and see what effect it is actually having on your hormone levels.

Yeah that's what I'm going to do, heading for fasted bloods now. I'll let you guys know the results asap.

Feeling about 70% today, might train tonight but I'll see how I feel.

 

[Elvia1023]

Yeah that's what I'm going to do, heading for fasted bloods now. I'll let you guys know the results asap.

Feeling about 70% today, might train tonight but I'll see how I feel.

Do you take stimulants like caffeine? Sometimes too much (plus all the training) can have an effect on cortisol levels. If you don't then a good pre workout may give you the drive you need. But as I said listen to your body. I bet you just feel great from the ostarine and want to make the most of it (train everyday). Sometimes less is more though. What do you eat around your workouts... any intra shakes?

 

[bigorse]

Do you take stimulants like caffeine? Sometimes too much (plus all the training) can have an effect on cortisol levels. If you don't then a good pre workout may give you the drive you need. But as I said listen to your body. I bet you just feel great from the ostarine and want to make the most of it (train everyday). Sometimes less is more though. What do you eat around your workouts... any intra shakes?

I do have an extrodinarily high stim tollerance, I worked up to 1500mg of caffeine during comp prep! But since calories have increased I'm training on black coffee, a pump amino (either arginine or AAKG or both) and some creatine mono.

Pre workout nutrition is about 100g carbs 50g protein 7-8g of fat 90-120 min per workout. No intra shakes at least until my calories are high enough to warant liquid foods

 

[bigorse]

And I have always made my own preworkout from raw powder so I always know I'm getting properly dosed good stuff, none of these proprietary blend bull shit

 

[Elvia1023]

I do have an extrodinarily high stim tollerance, I worked up to 1500mg of caffeine during comp prep! But since calories have increased I'm training on black coffee, a pump amino (either arginine or AAKG or both) and some creatine mono.

Pre workout nutrition is about 100g carbs 50g protein 7-8g of fat 90-120 min per workout. No intra shakes at least until my calories are high enough to warant liquid foods

1500mcg per day? Have you had your cortisol levels checked recently? Intra shakes have made a huge difference to my recovery from training.

 

[bigorse]

1500mg rather. Nah haven't had cortisol checked. I will off cycle all stims completely when calories are up a bit more, as I said now I'm only training on black coffee.

I don't feel I have a problem recovering to be honest its just feels like my arms recover and get more efficient at doing the training (increase weight/reps) but never increase in size

 

[bigorse]

My arms and calves are like this, just stubborn body parts l, everything else responds relatively well

 

[bigorse]

just had bloods done and found out they are subsidized by medicare so will be getting them done more often in logs to come

 

[bigorse]

day 8

didnt train, feeling considerably better though. will probably hit up a light/moderate session tomorrow then hopefully will be able to be back in full swing after that.... figer crossed. seem to be holding some water to, likely due to inconsistent diet but will be interested to see my estrogen levels in the bloods, thinking i will have to run low dosed letro along side after all

 

[bigorse]

day 9

didnt train, seem to be staying relatively full despite being sick which is a bonus. hopefully be back to training tomorrow

 

[bigorse]

Day 10

Trained hams, quads and calves. Nothing too crazy, still got a good pump in my legs, vatsus lateral esp. And am feeling pretty sore now too despite only going pretty easy.... Threw in a few sets of side laterals at the end just for some extra work as well.

All in all pretty happy considering the circumstances. It a long weekend here so I will get my blood results Tuesday for you guys. Libido feels slightly down but I'm single so that's no biggie lol

 

[bigorse]

day 11

still only feeling about 90% but holy shit! trained chest and biceps and as you probably see trending in my other entries i threw in some calves. strength is considerably up pump is still insane, good aggression in the gym and generally just feel good. loving osta really looking forward to playing around with the different sarm compounds over my 2 year off season and see if i cant put a solid 10-12 pounds off muscle on in 2 years.... i think it well achievable.

as for this log would you guys prefer less frequent updates, say once a week or do you guys prefer daily ones? im fine with either

 

[Jbo367]

Nice log bro just got caught up on it! Keep the daily updates coming seems like you are liking the sarms so far. I will be starting my sarms cycle in a few weeks. What is your weight looking like on cycle are you losing any bf?

 

[bigorse]

Nice log bro just got caught up on it! Keep the daily updates coming seems like you are liking the sarms so far. I will be starting my sarms cycle in a few weeks. What is your weight looking like on cycle are you losing any bf?

Weight and bf is going up but its all diet Dependant. I just came off a 26 week cut so I am struggling to stick to a small surplus atm.

 

[rgency]

Lots of good info... thanks for the daily logs, keep it up man.

 

[bigorse]

Day 12

I was incredibly hungry all day today, had to force my self to stop eating at about 4kcal as I want to bulk for 2 years so I'm trying not to get to fat to quick. Hunger increase isn't something common in other ostarine logs so it may not have anything to do with oatarine but I haven't started any new compounds.....
Training today was good. Trained back, Tris and calves. Really didn't feel like training but once the head phones were in I fucked shit up! Another good session smashed and in the books. Strength is up, pump wasn't to great today though.

Question for some of you vets... What are your thoughts and experiences with biguanides like metformin in bodybuilding, do they have a place in bodybuilding and how do you reccomend to use them? (Might start a new thread on this)

 

[bigorse]

insatiably hungry again! not even 9am and like 3500kcal down the hatch. digestion is better too but i am not liking being this hungry this early on i my off season...

 

[Elvia1023]

Great log. Please continue with the daily updates. Sounds like you are doing great. Here are a few of my thoughts...

- Hunger is a good sign and could simply be from all the hard training and the desire to grow I would add in some more healthy fats such as coconut oil, walnuts and free range whole eggs.

- It's hard to go by 1 pic but your arms look pretty proportional to the rest of your upper body. Like many I guess you just want huge arms but I wouldn't worry too much. Your shoulder look good so perhaps that's why you feel your arms need to be bigger (again only 1 pic to go by). I think you simply need more whole body mass... when your whole body grows your arms will grow too. I am sure you do but if not make sure you include some heavy rowing into your back workouts.

- 3500 cals by 9am is too much. That will cause digestion issues down the road so be careful. Quality of food is more important than quantity but sure looking at your pics some cheat meals aren't a bad thing if you are after mass.

- I think you will definitely achieve 12 pounds of solid muscle in 2 years

- You do not need anything like metformin at all. I do recommend GDA's (ALA, Gynema Sylvestre, Banaba Extract, Chromium etc). Have them before big carb and protein meals. They will improve slin sensitivity, increase vascularity and muscle hardness etc.

Keep the updates coming.

 

[bigorse]

Great log. Please continue with the daily updates. Sounds like you are doing great. Here are a few of my thoughts...

- Hunger is a good sign and could simply be from all the hard training and the desire to grow I would add in some more healthy fats such as coconut oil, walnuts and free range whole eggs.

- It's hard to go by 1 pic but your arms look pretty proportional to the rest of your upper body. Like many I guess you just want huge arms but I wouldn't worry too much. Your shoulder look good so perhaps that's why you feel your arms need to be bigger (again only 1 pic to go by). I think you simply need more whole body mass... when your whole body grows your arms will grow too. I am sure you do but if not make sure you include some heavy rowing into your back workouts.

- 3500 cals by 9am is too much. That will cause digestion issues down the road so be careful. Quality of food is more important than quantity but sure looking at your pics some cheat meals aren't a bad thing if you are after mass.

- I think you will definitely achieve 12 pounds of solid muscle in 2 years

- You do not need anything like metformin at all. I do recommend GDA's (ALA, Gynema Sylvestre, Banaba Extract, Chromium etc). Have them before big carb and protein meals. They will improve slin sensitivity, increase vascularity and muscle hardness etc.

Keep the updates coming.

Cheers man, the funny thing about this morning is the whole meal was "clean" bar some of the condiments and my metabolism is still a bit sluggish coming off a long diet so I acknowledge I'm going to be hungry after being deprived for so long but it is an insane amount especially since cardio had drop from 2-3 hours ed peak of prep to 1-2 half hour session a week at most.

As for my arms thats a flattering photo of them I spose. My back is by far my best bodpart but I feel my back double bi looks stupid with my arm size... Having said that I also want bigger calves, hamstring, chest, shoulder, glutes so it L's probs just a bit of "never satisfied" attitude coming in.

Appreciate the help man

 

[bigorse]

Great log. Please continue with the daily updates. Sounds like you are doing great. Here are a few of my thoughts...

- Hunger is a good sign and could simply be from all the hard training and the desire to grow I would add in some more healthy fats such as coconut oil, walnuts and free range whole eggs.

- It's hard to go by 1 pic but your arms look pretty proportional to the rest of your upper body. Like many I guess you just want huge arms but I wouldn't worry too much. Your shoulder look good so perhaps that's why you feel your arms need to be bigger (again only 1 pic to go by). I think you simply need more whole body mass... when your whole body grows your arms will grow too. I am sure you do but if not make sure you include some heavy rowing into your back workouts.

- 3500 cals by 9am is too much. That will cause digestion issues down the road so be careful. Quality of food is more important than quantity but sure looking at your pics some cheat meals aren't a bad thing if you are after mass.

- I think you will definitely achieve 12 pounds of solid muscle in 2 years

- You do not need anything like metformin at all. I do recommend GDA's (ALA, Gynema Sylvestre, Banaba Extract, Chromium etc). Have them before big carb and protein meals. They will improve slin sensitivity, increase vascularity and muscle hardness etc.

Keep the updates coming.

just a thought, do you think a low dose of t3, say 12.5mcg a day would be beneficial at increasing my metabolic capacity up to speed a bit so i can still eat relatively large amount of foods without to much weight gain. also do you think the heightened rate of protein synthesis whilst on t3 could be utilized with osta?

 

[bigorse]

day 13

hit shoulders, bi's and calves. just gonna keep it short and say it was nothing short of insane, workouts are amazing of late.
whilst workouts and pumps are insane i do have a slight issue with the forearm pumps during training, they get absolutely skin splitting at times and can get in the way of some movement. never the less training is amazing.
weighed in at about 190lbs this PM and whilst conditioning is a little worse than i would hope it is by far the leanest i have looked at this weight.

 

[Elvia1023]

just a thought, do you think a low dose of t3, say 12.5mcg a day would be beneficial at increasing my metabolic capacity up to speed a bit so i can still eat relatively large amount of foods without to much weight gain. also do you think the heightened rate of protein synthesis whilst on t3 could be utilized with osta?

No I would stay away from t3 when bulking. You don't need it at all. Sure it could do what you say but I don't think you need to touch anything thyroid related. Just make sure you are consistent with food/training and you will grow. Obviously you want to just put on quality size but don't worry about weight gain as you have room to grow. If you want something to utilize you food better look into the GDA's I mentioned in the other thread.

 

[bigorse]

day 14

trained biceps and triceps, wanted to train legs but was short on time (they will be killed tomorrow no matter what!). training was super intense just rotated between overhead cable extensions, tricep push downs and straight barbell curl (21's style) no rest in between each exercise, hit 5 sets of the triset/super set regular then 3 sets of it with occlusion (blood flow restriction). in and out in 25 minutes still got good volume in and the pump was insane, probably over an inch pump. feeling a bit moody of late but that could be an array of things. libido seems to be right back up and hunger is still through the roof. i feel pumped all day and it looks like im growing as well as my strength increasing.... so far so good

 

[Elvia1023]

day 14

trained biceps and triceps, wanted to train legs but was short on time (they will be killed tomorrow no matter what!). training was super intense just rotated between overhead cable extensions, tricep push downs and straight barbell curl (21's style) no rest in between each exercise, hit 5 sets of the triset/super set regular then 3 sets of it with occlusion (blood flow restriction). in and out in 25 minutes still got good volume in and the pump was insane, probably over an inch pump. feeling a bit moody of late but that could be an array of things. libido seems to be right back up and hunger is still through the roof. i feel pumped all day and it looks like im growing as well as my strength increasing.... so far so good

Good stuff. I think I need some ostarine after reading this log

 

[bigorse]

Good stuff. I think I need some ostarine after reading this log

im going to run another 12 week cycle once this one is over, might up the dose 5mg and see what happens

 

[bigorse]

day 15

as promised killed quads, hams and calves. another good training session, strength is good, endurance and cardio is good despite the rapid weight gain. did squats for the first time in a while and did a lot of them and surprisingly strength hasnt dropped to much since i was squating regularly but im guessing i will be sore tomorrow!
hunger is still up, libido seems to fluctuate a little bit though.

just so you know from yesterday i jumped into a keto stint, will continue until i drop most of the water im holding at the moment then jump back into a small surplus and will be making sure i keep cheats to a minimum.

 

[Elvia1023]

day 15

as promised killed quads, hams and calves. another good training session, strength is good, endurance and cardio is good despite the rapid weight gain. did squats for the first time in a while and did a lot of them and surprisingly strength hasnt dropped to much since i was squating regularly but im guessing i will be sore tomorrow!
hunger is still up, libido seems to fluctuate a little bit though.

just so you know from yesterday i jumped into a keto stint, will continue until i drop most of the water im holding at the moment then jump back into a small surplus and will be making sure i keep cheats to a minimum.

What is a typical days food going to look like now?

 

[bigorse]

Whilst on keto?

Macros are around 240p 110f -15c
The food sources have been pretty much what ever is cheap at the moment and fit keto, though I did have a nice scotch fillet steak last night! Also I have been making an effort to hit 4l of water minimum a day and the water has just started dropping off

 

[bigorse]

Day 16

Trained shoulders and calves yesterday. Tried to back off a tiny bit and just focused on a good contraction and squeeze and I dropped the volume a bit, kind of a mini deload. I did about half and hour of shoulder mobility and rotator cuff work before training and had a good stretch post workout. Really trying make sure I'm in the best shape possible to get progressing In the gym. I still killed calves though, no deload for those stubborn fuckers.

Just had the normal hunger sides but I'll survive, I had about three people tell me I was looking big yesterday so I'm obviously doing something right!

 

[bigorse]

day 17

trained back, bi's and calves. not too bad of a session, energy was down a little and pump wasnt as insane probably due to lower carbs. i am looking the leanest i have ever looked at this body weight though and am back in a comfortable range, i really hadnt gained much fat i just had a off season ronnie coleman bloat that went down quicker than you could say "yeah buddy" im going to stick keto out for a few more days but eat around maintenance calories then add carbs back in when im satisfied.
hunger seemed a little better today which may be to do with dietary fat intake being higher so i will be playing around with macro ratio's through the off season to see what works best for me.
libido is good.
whilst i am generally less vascular due to body fat accumulation i am noticing new veins coming through the inside of my biceps, upper chest and shoulders. so far i would guess i have put on 2-3 pounds of legit muscle and have been getting a few compliments on how big i look lately. really feeling as ostarine is working wonders on me.

 

[Elvia1023]

Whilst on keto?

Macros are around 240p 110f -15c
The food sources have been pretty much what ever is cheap at the moment and fit keto, though I did have a nice scotch fillet steak last night! Also I have been making an effort to hit 4l of water minimum a day and the water has just started dropping off

I see things are getting even better... good to see. Nothing wrong with the cheapest but can you give me an idea what protein and fats they are? All that stuff you may have heard about regarding if it fits your macros is nonsense (you may not have heard it but just making sure). Sure it's true to an extent but guys go overboard eating alsorts of crap as long as it fits their daily macros. Bags of frozen fish, eggs, tinned tuna with cheap cuts of meat would be your best bet. Some nuts and good oils (EVCO, EVOO, MacO etc) too.

 

[bigorse]

I see things are getting even better... good to see. Nothing wrong with the cheapest but can you give me an idea what protein and fats they are? All that stuff you may have heard about regarding if it fits your macros is nonsense (you may not have heard it but just making sure). Sure it's true to an extent but guys go overboard eating alsorts of crap as long as it fits their daily macros. Bags of frozen fish, eggs, tinned tuna with cheap cuts of meat would be your best bet. Some nuts and good oils (EVCO, EVOO, MacO etc) too.

When I was completely natural I dieted using iifym and in all honesty It was the most comfortable diet I have ever done and it was also the first time I got to striated glutes! Having said that I was eating to about a 90/10 (cleab/dirty) on low days and about 70/30 on refeed days. Most protein comes from egg whites, kangaroo, turkey, chicken breast and lean fish's. Fatty protein sources come usually from steaks like rump, scotch etc and nuts. I am now back on a 99% "clean/bro diet" to see how I react and quite frankly I am willing to do what ever I can right now to improve my physique in the most optimal way possible.

When carbs are reintroduced carb sources will be brown rice for lower GI, bran in the am for fibre and fruits and snack/dirtier carbs post workout and when calories are high enough the same will be used intra workout. I generally keep fat pretty low but I will experiment with it a bit.

 

[watchdude83]

Good read on info in this log between you guys posts

 

[bigorse]

Day 18

Hit up a huge chest, tri and calf workout with a mate. Literally trained for 3 hours and intensity didn't drop (I was not going to let my mate outlift me) strength is up considerably even on keto. Feeling good, training hard, growing like a weed.... Even my calves have grown!

 

[bigorse]

day 19

shoulders, biceps and calves. intensity was great again, energy is good, pump is good. im looking leaner but not losing weight and im on keto so i am definitely making some lean gains. though i feel it is more from the training i think i have put about a 1/4 of an inch on my calves since i started training them every day that i worked out about 6 weeks ago.

now a question for you guys, should i use my s4 as i had planned (start of week 3) or do you think i should hold it off and safe it for another cycle? do you think i will see a benefit from it at 10-11% body fat? i have 2 x 30ml bottles at 50mg/ml

 

[bigorse]

Day 20

Trained hams, quads and calves. Not too bad of a workout, dropped the volume a little due to feeling a bit flat and low on energy. I will be refeeding tomorrow post workout. Then back on normal bulking diet after that.

Im thinking of holding off on S4 and just running one bottle of it in the last 4 weeks of my cycle, what do you guys think?

 

[bigorse]

day 21

trained back, bi's, tri's and calves. felt flat as, no pump strength wasnt too bad but all in all not the best workout. i will be reintroducing carbs in meal 1 tomorrow, i will be going to bed like its Christmas eve haha!
vascularity is defiantly up though... things will get interesting with some carbs added.

 

[bigorse]

day 22

trained calves, tris and shoulder. just light, went for the pump nothing spectacular. reintroduced carbs today and look and feel 10x better! also got my raws in from towering labs so i put my prami in solution of 80 proof alcohol and water at 2mg/ml needed a little heat to get into solution but wasnt to hard. dosed it at 200mcg got a slight flush feeling and a calm feeling, also a bit of a head ache. dosage time is roughly 3-4 hours pre bed.

 

[bigorse]

day 23

trained arms and calves. sick workout, sick pump, sick intensity, felt great. after a week of keto weight dropped to about 180lbs AM i am 193lbs tonight looking pretty lean maybe a tiny bit spilled over but hey im off season right.... arms have defiantly grown, chest looks fuller, hams and glutes look thick and my calves are growing like its my first week in the gym! have noticed a slight aggression and shorter temper out of the gym so i need to keep that under control. dosed prami at 100mcg tonight so il see how that goes so far no flush feeling and only a tiny headache. might try dosing in the AM tomorrow and see how that makes me feel. whilst i am not overly spilled over or bloated at then moment i am rocking a bit of a moon face.... do you think this could be from slightly high estro? got no gyno or anything else that would suggest high E. i have letro on hand but would rather not use it if possible as i dont want to kill to must E as it is important in building muscle.

already looking into my second cycle and was thinking about using the prohormone methylstenbolone stacked with lgd4033 and my left over ostarine.

3-8 sten ace 14,14,21,21,21
1-10 LGD4033 8mg
8-10 ostarine

pct

11-14 nolva 40 40 20 20
11-14 clomid 50 25 25 25
11-14 DAA 3g

plus milk thistle pre cycle and on cycle as well as my daily fish oil, multi etc.

 

[bigorse]

also sten being a anadrol derived PH will it require a test base? would prefer to wait till my comp prep in 2017 before running my first full cycle.

 

[Elvia1023]

When I was completely natural I dieted using iifym and in all honesty It was the most comfortable diet I have ever done and it was also the first time I got to striated glutes! Having said that I was eating to about a 90/10 (cleab/dirty) on low days and about 70/30 on refeed days. Most protein comes from egg whites, kangaroo, turkey, chicken breast and lean fish's. Fatty protein sources come usually from steaks like rump, scotch etc and nuts. I am now back on a 99% "clean/bro diet" to see how I react and quite frankly I am willing to do what ever I can right now to improve my physique in the most optimal way possible.

When carbs are reintroduced carb sources will be brown rice for lower GI, bran in the am for fibre and fruits and snack/dirtier carbs post workout and when calories are high enough the same will be used intra workout. I generally keep fat pretty low but I will experiment with it a bit.

The sounds great. See that's the thing you were still eating good food. I mean guys who use that style to basically eat crap foods all day long. Don't get me wrong though there have been experiments done were guys used candy/sweets etc for all carbs during contest prep and they still looked great. But for health and appearance cleaner foods will always win. Some cheats are only a good thing. You are doing things the way they should be. I put guys on lots of good fats but some of the best bb's I know eat low fat all the time. Some of the most famous guru's have their bb's on very low fats in contest prep... literally the only fat they have comes from meats and nothing added.

I need to follow my own advice I have ate 2 jars of nutella in the last 24 hours

 

[Elvia1023]

day 19

shoulders, biceps and calves. intensity was great again, energy is good, pump is good. im looking leaner but not losing weight and im on keto so i am definitely making some lean gains. though i feel it is more from the training i think i have put about a 1/4 of an inch on my calves since i started training them every day that i worked out about 6 weeks ago.

now a question for you guys, should i use my s4 as i had planned (start of week 3) or do you think i should hold it off and safe it for another cycle? do you think i will see a benefit from it at 10-11% body fat? i have 2 x 30ml bottles at 50mg/ml

You will definitely see benefit form stacking the two. But as you later state maybe just use 1 at the end of the cycle. Although you have gained a lot already so perhaps adding something in for a short duration at the end isn't the best idea. I am not sure how long you plan to cycle the ostarine. How many weeks do you have left?

 

[bigorse]

Plan on doing 12 weeks so i have 8.5 to go

 

[bigorse]

The sounds great. See that's the thing you were still eating good food. I mean guys who use that style to basically eat crap foods all day long. Don't get me wrong though there have been experiments done were guys used candy/sweets etc for all carbs during contest prep and they still looked great. But for health and appearance cleaner foods will always win. Some cheats are only a good thing. You are doing things the way they should be. I put guys on lots of good fats but some of the best bb's I know eat low fat all the time. Some of the most famous guru's have their bb's on very low fats in contest prep... literally the only fat they have comes from meats and nothing added.

I need to follow my own advice I have ate 2 jars of nutella in the last 24 hours

Hahaha that stuff is evil during prep

 

[bigorse]

day 24

trained hams, quads and calves. great workout insane pump... but im starting to get use to it now. had a bit of a cheat day today as i spent the whole day at my brothers baseball carnival still hit my protein and 5000-6000 cals still looking tight at around 188-195 (weight fluctuates a lot) dosed prami at 100mcg am and wasnt to bad after the initial drowsiness and dosed 100mcg pm. noticed very slight testicular atrophy which was a slight shock but libido is still raging, unfortunately im single and bulking so things arent looking good! haha

 

[Elvia1023]

day 24

trained hams, quads and calves. great workout insane pump... but im starting to get use to it now. had a bit of a cheat day today as i spent the whole day at my brothers baseball carnival still hit my protein and 5000-6000 cals still looking tight at around 188-195 (weight fluctuates a lot) dosed prami at 100mcg am and wasnt to bad after the initial drowsiness and dosed 100mcg pm. noticed very slight testicular atrophy which was a slight shock but libido is still raging, unfortunately im single and bulking so things arent looking good! haha

How your your sleep after the last prami dose? Did you dream? Numb hands?

 

[bigorse]

How your your sleep after the last prami dose? Did you dream? Numb hands?

No numb hands this morning and sleep was decent, just about the same as normal really

 

[bigorse]

day 25

trained chest, biceps and calves. lowered volume a little and trained heavy, i throw more powerlifting oriented days in every now and then as i really want a 315 bench 600 dead 500 squat at the end of my 2 year bulk. currently have a 250 bench 485 dead and 405 squat. pumps were good esp. in biceps as i used some occlusion training. weighed in at 194lbs pm still got abs and am in respectable condition. upped prami back to 200mcg tonight hopefully i am able to sleep. also iv ordered super DMZ 2.0 and MAX OUT for my second cycle, will also run either a low dose of lgd or ostarine along side it. got nolva, clomid, aromasin and DAA for pct. has anyone used either of these ph? they look perfect for my goals but wouldnt mind hearing some opinions on them.

 

[Elvia1023]

day 25

trained chest, biceps and calves. lowered volume a little and trained heavy, i throw more powerlifting oriented days in every now and then as i really want a 315 bench 600 dead 500 squat at the end of my 2 year bulk. currently have a 250 bench 485 dead and 405 squat. pumps were good esp. in biceps as i used some occlusion training. weighed in at 194lbs pm still got abs and am in respectable condition. upped prami back to 200mcg tonight hopefully i am able to sleep. also iv ordered super DMZ 2.0 and MAX OUT for my second cycle, will also run either a low dose of lgd or ostarine along side it. got nolva, clomid, aromasin and DAA for pct. has anyone used either of these ph? they look perfect for my goals but wouldnt mind hearing some opinions on them.

Sounds good. I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to prohormones and have only tried one. Sure I know they can be great but that's about it. The DMZ 2.0 should be great but haven't heard of the other one.

 

[bigorse]

Sounds good. I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to prohormones and have only tried one. Sure I know they can be great but that's about it. The DMZ 2.0 should be great but haven't heard of the other one.

The other one is the ph equivalent of deca. If i am going to play with steroids id rather use real stuff but i found it cheap and easy to source so i figured a 4-5 week cycle wouldnt hurt with the proper precautions taken.

 

[bigorse]

day 26

back, tri's and calves. good workout, strength and endurance both good. i got an insane pump it was painful but its my favorite part of training. last couple of days i have had bad back pumps and cramps esp. today, i will be taking 5g of taurine every morning for now on. weight seems to have steadied out around 194lbs. prami i dosed 3 times today at 200mcg each and i have had numb hands on and off with minimal sides, i will continue to slowly increase my prami until the side start to out weigh the benafits.

 

[bigorse]

Finally got bloods back from about 4 days into cycle, i will post exact results tonight but my test was very low and liver values were slightly elevated. LH was good. Do you think that i could be suppressed after just 4 days of ostarine?

 

[bigorse]

Estrogen was normal

 

[bigorse]

day 27

trained shoulder, bi's and calves. strength was good on my pressing but as the workout went on i had some minor aches and pains niggling me, i have been pushing really hard lately and am due a rest day so tomorrow will be just that. i have always found periodically over training/pushing has yielded the best results for me and this block has been no different. dosed prami 3x at 225mcg today and was slightly drowsy but nothing to bad and i have been getting numb hand on and off during the day which hopefully means that im getting some nice GH pulses. weight was 195lbs tonight.

with my test being so low and i doubt a few days of ostarine could have suppressed me so hard i may start cycling sooner rather than later. FYI when i was dieting naturally though i never got blood tested i had a 2 month period with no libido and low to no sexual ability but i would have though that 12 weeks post diet and 10kg regained my test would be relatively back to normal. i dont feel lethargic like i use to and i have my libido back yet the bloods show that i have very low test. i will be going back for another set after i have finished my pct for this cycle and as pre cycle bloods for my super DMZ 2.0 and max out cycle. if levels are still low i may look into staying on trt doses of test but thats far from ideal at my age.

 

[Elvia1023]

day 27

trained shoulder, bi's and calves. strength was good on my pressing but as the workout went on i had some minor aches and pains niggling me, i have been pushing really hard lately and am due a rest day so tomorrow will be just that. i have always found periodically over training/pushing has yielded the best results for me and this block has been no different. dosed prami 3x at 225mcg today and was slightly drowsy but nothing to bad and i have been getting numb hand on and off during the day which hopefully means that im getting some nice GH pulses. weight was 195lbs tonight.

with my test being so low and i doubt a few days of ostarine could have suppressed me so hard i may start cycling sooner rather than later. FYI when i was dieting naturally though i never got blood tested i had a 2 month period with no libido and low to no sexual ability but i would have though that 12 weeks post diet and 10kg regained my test would be relatively back to normal. i dont feel lethargic like i use to and i have my libido back yet the bloods show that i have very low test. i will be going back for another set after i have finished my pct for this cycle and as pre cycle bloods for my super DMZ 2.0 and max out cycle. if levels are still low i may look into staying on trt doses of test but thats far from ideal at my age.

If you ever have minor aches or pains I would definitely take that day off and most likely add another rest day too. Listen to your body.

It's awkward to know your natural test if you don't have a baseline test. Moreover haven't you done prohormones cycles in the past? If so you may not have recovered properly. If I am wrong in saying that you may just have low test. Ostarine can suppress you fast but not like that for someone at your age. Try to add a few more fats into your diet... mainly free range whole eggs, walnuts, certain cuts of steak and pumpkin seeds.

 

[bigorse]

If you ever have minor aches or pains I would definitely take that day off and most likely add another rest day too. Listen to your body.

It's awkward to know your natural test if you don't have a baseline test. Moreover haven't you done prohormones cycles in the past? If so you may not have recovered properly. If I am wrong in saying that you may just have low test. Ostarine can suppress you fast but not like that for someone at your age. Try to add a few more fats into your diet... mainly free range whole eggs, walnuts, certain cuts of steak and pumpkin seeds.

Never touched prohormones or steroids. Ostatine is the first anabolic i have used. I have always saod dieting natural is just as hard on your hpta as doing it woth gear. And now i have proof, for my self anyway. For the weeks leading up to the bloods i was eating a fair bit of fat, plenty of eggs and nuts. Etc.

 

[bigorse]

Il try get the results up for you guys asap. But 10 is considered low range of avererage and i was around 8.

 

[Elvia1023]

Il try get the results up for you guys asap. But 10 is considered low range of avererage and i was around 8.

Looks like you have natural low test then. Just get your future bloods taken and see where you are. After that you can make more of an informed decision. Until then just enjoy your current cycle

 

[bigorse]

I will be running a prohormone cycle next but decisions on possible trt will be made on my next pre cycle blood/post cycle blood for this cycle

 

[bigorse]

Read through my log and id actually been on osta for a week so maybe it did surpress me. Il just have to wait until my next set of bloods are done.

 

[bigorse]

testosterone 8.8 nmol/l
FSH 8 u/l
LH 5 u/l
oestradiol <100pmol/l

liver function

alt 74
rest of the values were within range

 

[bigorse]

day 28

rest day/ light abs.
nothing much to report. weight is down slightly at 192lbs. dosed prami 3x 225mcg today and had periods of strong numbness in my hands and kind of like a forearm pump which hopefully means GH secretion is elevated.

 

[Elvia1023]

day 28

rest day/ light abs.
nothing much to report. weight is down slightly at 192lbs. dosed prami 3x 225mcg today and had periods of strong numbness in my hands and kind of like a forearm pump which hopefully means GH secretion is elevated.

Yeah prami will definitely be increasing your gh levels. GH output is most significant about 2 hours after prami dosing. How are you feeling in general? All that dopamine must be making you feel pretty good

 

[bigorse]

Yeah prami will definitely be increasing your gh levels. GH output is most significant about 2 hours after prami dosing. How are you feeling in general? All that dopamine must be making you feel pretty good

Yeah have been in pretty good mood last few day. I had the best sleep ever last night only about 7-8 hours but i was out cold the whole time! Ready to kill some legs tonight.
Plan on stating on prami for 7 weeks then il drop it for about 10 weeks and start it up again in my next cycle cause il be taking a progesterone.

 

[Elvia1023]

Yeah have been in pretty good mood last few day. I had the best sleep ever last night only about 7-8 hours but i was out cold the whole time! Ready to kill some legs tonight.
Plan on stating on prami for 7 weeks then il drop it for about 10 weeks and start it up again in my next cycle cause il be taking a progesterone.

Good plan. You need to cycle dopamine agonists so 10 weeks is a nice big break. Yeah once your body gets used to prami the sleep is incredible. I feel like I have hibernated over winter some mornings I killed legs before so just chilling now.

 

[bigorse]

Good plan. You need to cycle dopamine agonists so 10 weeks is a nice big break. Yeah once your body gets used to prami the sleep is incredible. I feel like I have hibernated over winter some mornings I killed legs before so just chilling now.

Your not wrong. Prami is some good stuff, dirt cheap too! Im going to stay at 3× 200mcg until i want to tighten up a little which will be in about 5 weeks time.

 

[bigorse]

Then il try push the doseage up a little

 

[bigorse]

day 29

trained bi's and tri's. was going to train legs but by erectors where tight as a mofo so il hit them tomorrow instead. pump was absolutely insane, probably the best i have ever had. weighing in at around 194lbs. diet has been only about 60% clean and have been putting down around 5000 calories, 240g protein minimum per day and the rest has been split between carbs and fats just depending on what i feel like, i really need to tidy it up a bit but for the time being im not too fussed.

 

[bigorse]

Day 30

Trained quads and hams.
Erectors were a bit tight but gave them a good stretch and everything went pretty smooth. Squat stregth was grear and got the most intence pump in my hammies doing laying ham curls. Been eating like crazy last few day weighed in at 199lbs. Will probably keep bulking to 203-205 then pull back a little. Still got abs and decent vascularity but i have a nice layer of water making me look nice and soft. Nips have felt a touch sore so i will keep a close eye on them but id rather not need to run an AI if possible.

 

[bigorse]

Day 31

Started training chest abd biceps (about 5 sets of each) my shoulders were sore and my erectors were really tight so i stopped at that. I will take the next few days as deload days and let my body heal up. I weighed in at 202lbs today and getting a little sloppy. I have a few events coming up lately that i would like to look half decent for so the next 3-4 weeks im going to eat around maintenance and try recomp a bit.