L-dex = clomid substitute post cycle?

[Soma]

I was wondering if i could use liquidex post cycle (pro-hormone cycle of course)instead of clomid. Here's why i ask- clomid blocks estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus and the pituitary right? This tricks the body into wanting an increase in estrogen therefore the body must make more test(increase in GnRH at hypothalamus and then LH at the pituitary) to make estro.

But if there is little to no estrogen in the body by using L-dex post cycle( say .5mg ed is that enough or 1 mg?) THen there would be the same situation b/c instead of blocking the receptors from estro they would be empty(in the case of L-dex use). So could one recover in the same way as they would with clomid by using L-dex? Just curious.

-Soma

 

[latinus_spicticus]

Liquidex is great for post-cycle recovery. I definately prefer it to clomid alone. Some guys rave about the protocol of doing two weeks of post cycle clomid (100mg/day, then 50mg/day) and running arimidex at .5mg eod for the two clomid weeks and then two additional weeks after the clomid. But the dex does work on its own in my experience, I use .25 or .5mg eod depending on how I feel.

 

[plornive]

If your testosterone production is shut down hard, arimidex will not have much of an effect. Arimidex prevents the aromatase enzyme from breaking testosterone down into estrogen. If you don't have much testosterone, this is useless.

Post-cycle, your test levels will be low, yet your body will still produce estrogen (yes, your body produces it directly). Your estrogen to androgen ratio will be too high for optimal recovery because estrogen binding to estrogen receptors will cause negative feedback to leutenizing hormone production. You could also get gyno. Clomid or Nolvadex will bind to the estrogen receptors (estrogen antagonists) and prevent negative feedback as well as gyno. Arimidex will not do this.

Plus, arimidex is expensive. Don't waste it.

 

[Dio]

Originally posted by plornive
If your testosterone production is shut down hard, arimidex will not have much of an effect. Arimidex prevents the aromatase enzyme from breaking testosterone down into estrogen. If you don't have much testosterone, this is useless.

That's exactly when you need to worry about estrogen -- when T levels are suppressed the T/E ratio gets upset much easier.


Post-cycle, your test levels will be low, yet your body will still produce estrogen (yes, your body produces it directly). Your estrogen to androgen ratio will be too high for optimal recovery because estrogen binding to estrogen receptors will cause negative feedback to leutenizing hormone production. You could also get gyno. Clomid or Nolvadex will bind to the estrogen receptors (estrogen antagonists) and prevent negative feedback as well as gyno. Arimidex will not do this.


Please tell me how the body produces estrogen with test aromatising? Also explain to me how arimidex will not prevent e related gyno?

You have some of the concepts right, but your facts are wrong.
Estrogen is produced exclusively from aromatase and arimidex will prevent gyno.

 

[plornive]

Originally posted by plornive
If your testosterone production is shut down hard, arimidex will not have much of an effect. Arimidex prevents the aromatase enzyme from breaking testosterone down into estrogen. If you don't have much testosterone, this is useless.

That's exactly when you need to worry about estrogen -- when T levels are suppressed the T/E ratio gets upset much easier.


Post-cycle, your test levels will be low, yet your body will still produce estrogen (yes, your body produces it directly). Your estrogen to androgen ratio will be too high for optimal recovery because estrogen binding to estrogen receptors will cause negative feedback to leutenizing hormone production. You could also get gyno. Clomid or Nolvadex will bind to the estrogen receptors (estrogen antagonists) and prevent negative feedback as well as gyno. Arimidex will not do this.


Please tell me how the body produces estrogen with test aromatising? Also explain to me how arimidex will not prevent e related gyno?

You have some of the concepts right, but your facts are wrong.
Estrogen is produced exclusively from aromatase and arimidex will prevent gyno.

I guess I have no proof that the body produces estrogen in the absence of test. I believe that is the root cause of our dissagreement. If it matters to you, I suggest finding a trustable reference that states estrogen in males is exclusively from aromatization. Not a flame...

 

[Dio]

Actually Pat Arnold stated it in a thread on anabolex-- that's good enough for me.

 

[Bill Llewellyn]

I guess I have no proof that the body produces estrogen in the absence of test. I believe that is the root cause of our dissagreement. If it matters to you, I suggest finding a trustable reference that states estrogen in males is exclusively from aromatization. Not a flame...

A good amount of estrogen still comes from the aromatization of androstenedione in other tissues after the testes shut down. This causes the rebound A/E imbalance.

Aromatase inhibitors and Anti-estrogens both prevent gyno post-cycle, but neither does a really good job at stimulating T since estrogen is subnormal and the body is already in a state favorable for heightened LH release. HCG is more important here.

 

[Dio]

That would still mean that without aromatase you get no E.


"Aromatase inhibitors and Anti-estrogens both prevent gyno post-cycle, but neither does a really good job at stimulating T since estrogen is subnormal and the body is already in a state favorable for heightened LH release. HCG is more important here."

I was under the impression that that was up for discussion

 

[Soma]

HCG

Doesnt HCG act as a synthetic LH? And stimulates the testes to produce test. Then how can people get gyno using HCG? is it b/c of rapid rise in test production = more estrogen b/c of aromatization of this new test? OR is HCG estrogenic itself? If for the first reason then you could just take Arimidex and HCG right?

-Soma