Just once....i wanna just get there

[Vascular Freak]

i have been hardcore training for 10 years now....started with a soft, weak body and after years of hard work and a few years of light cycling i am getting close to where i want to be...BUT for the effort i put in and the knowledge i have i want to get that ideal physique....why did i write that???

because i have been running test/proviron for 6 weeks now with 3 weeks of that with tren ace added in....i am considering running another 4 weeks of tren and then switching over to test e/primo/var and running an additional 12 weeks......i know thats not the safest approach BUT i just want to make some serious gains to get to 200lbs extremely lean....then from there adhere to the time on time off approach.....will i run into libido issues etc from staying on so long? obviously in pct it will suffer but what about while on if estro/prog/prolac are all in check???

 

[Vascular Freak]

all you big fuckers must have stayed on for long periods of time aat one point to get where you are....then once you have the symmetry and size are able to cut back and be safe about gear usage right??

 

[AhMadKooL]

i have been hardcore training for 10 years now....started with a soft, weak body and after years of hard work and a few years of light cycling i am getting close to where i want to be...BUT for the effort i put in and the knowledge i have i want to get that ideal physique....why did i write that???

because i have been running test/proviron for 6 weeks now with 3 weeks of that with tren ace added in....i am considering running another 4 weeks of tren and then switching over to test e/primo/var and running an additional 12 weeks......i know thats not the safest approach BUT i just want to make some serious gains to get to 200lbs extremely lean....then from there adhere to the time on time off approach.....will i run into libido issues etc from staying on so long? obviously in pct it will suffer but what about while on if estro/prog/prolac are all in check???

With proviron and Test E I don't think you'll have any libido issues while on; Though everybody is different (especially with tren). I'd recommend you continue take proviron during PCT since It doesn't cause suppression of natural test levels

 

[Vascular Freak]

i am planning on running prop/tren/primo for another 4 weeks or so then i will drop the tren and add some var in place of it. But the test and proviron will stick throughout the whole cycle....i am also using a little t3, and dostinex.

i know prop should be shot eod atleast but has anyone tried sticking e3d????? that would help with site rotation otherwise i might have to switch to test e which i don't really want to do....then i need an AI

 

[solidspine]

because i have been running test/proviron for 6 weeks now with 3 weeks of that with tren ace added in....i am considering running another 4 weeks of tren and then switching over to test e/primo/var and running an additional 12 weeks......i know thats not the safest approach BUT i just want to make some serious gains to get to 200lbs extremely lean....then from there adhere to the time on time off approach.....will i run into libido issues etc from staying on so long? obviously in pct it will suffer but what about while on if estro/prog/prolac are all in check???

Sorry could not really make sense of this

But if possible,

D-bol week 1-6 50mg per day
Test E or C 750mg per week 1-12
Tren Ace 50mg per day week 7-12
Primo 800mg per week 1-12

Anti-e
PCT


\
Proviron, anavar, all this other stuff does nothing,

In fact you can get huge on Deca, Tren, and Test

3 compounds is fine,

Primo just is not what it use to be, but I still like it,


On the above cycle I mention the only, ONLY THING I would add is possibly winny.

 

[Vascular Freak]

thanks solid!! well mainly i was wondering if all you bigger guys have ran longer than reccomended cycles at one point to get to where you want to be.....like 18 weeks etc switching up compounds throughout with test as a base??? i want to run one long 18-20 weeker and finally fill in the weak spots of my physique etc.......is this stupid to consider or have you all done it at one point...even if you realized later that its not the best approach?

 

[jmead]

i ran a 18 weeker, which included dbol,test,npp,eq,anavar

dbol was 4 weeks
test full 18
eq full 18
anavar 4 weeks
npp was 10 weeks

it was fun.. no libido problems.. continuous gains by switching compounds.. pct kinda suffered but i was horribly atrophied. this time im running hcg throughout, see if that will help

 

[Vascular Freak]

i ran a 18 weeker, which included dbol,test,npp,eq,anavar

dbol was 4 weeks
test full 18
eq full 18
anavar 4 weeks
npp was 10 weeks

it was fun.. no libido problems.. continuous gains by switching compounds.. pct kinda suffered but i was horribly atrophied. this time im running hcg throughout, see if that will help

i am gonna run hcg at 250 ius on sat and sun throughout.....and i was contemplating a low dose 30mg of clomid thorughout??? i get no sides from it and it might keep testes working slightly?

 

[jmead]

doubtful, i would just stick with the hcg throughout, clomid pct, just stick with the hcg to keep your testes from fully atrophying, should make recover that much easier.

 

[Vascular Freak]

doubtful, i would just stick with the hcg throughout, clomid pct, just stick with the hcg to keep your testes from fully atrophying, should make recover that much easier.

right on bro...thats what i have been doing so i will stick with it

 

[SpyWizard]

i have been hardcore training for 10 years now....started with a soft, weak body and after years of hard work and a few years of light cycling i am getting close to where i want to be...BUT for the effort i put in and the knowledge i have i want to get that ideal physique....why did i write that???

because i have been running test/proviron for 6 weeks now with 3 weeks of that with tren ace added in....i am considering running another 4 weeks of tren and then switching over to test e/primo/var and running an additional 12 weeks......i know thats not the safest approach BUT i just want to make some serious gains to get to 200lbs extremely lean....then from there adhere to the time on time off approach.....will i run into libido issues etc from staying on so long? obviously in pct it will suffer but what about while on if estro/prog/prolac are all in check???

if you are running hcg all along 250iu sat/sunday you shouldn't have too many issues, but the pct will be ugly..

good luck..

 

[Phaded]

you got any pics online i'd like to see what you look like..

 

[chazk]

vascular these bigger guys that are 5'11 6ft+ ofcoarse they are gonna weigh over 200lbs.

vascular I saw that pic from a while back bro your lean as fuck , and prob close to my height 5'8 give or take a inch.

dude 200lbs at a shorter stance is really impressive.

i think a guy that 190lbs to 200lbs ripped at 5'7 looks sick compared to a guy that is 6'2 and 225lbs lean.

just my two cents dont get cuaght up in the " numbers game" or youll never be happy

many my olyimpias didnt even weigh over 200lbs, frank zane never got over 200lbs while winning, franco never got over 200lbs,chris dickerson was 185lbs. samir was barley over 200lbs larry scott was 5'7 and like 205 they all ranged from 5'5 to 5'9 with tiny waiste and great muscle bellies .lee labrada was only 185 at 5'6 shawn ray at 5'7 barley cracked 200lbs and finished in the top 3 5 times at the big O conteast


compare your self to people in your height range.

or your only gonna be dissapointed,,

you look good bro dont worry about it

 

[Vascular Freak]

vascular these bigger guys that are 5'11 6ft+ ofcoarse they are gonna weigh over 200lbs.

vascular I saw that pic from a while back bro your lean as fuck , and prob close to my height 5'8 give or take a inch.

dude 200lbs at a shorter stance is really impressive.

i think a guy that 190lbs to 200lbs ripped at 5'7 looks sick compared to a guy that is 6'2 and 225lbs lean.

just my two cents dont get cuaght up in the " numbers game" or youll never be happy

many my olyimpias didnt even weigh over 200lbs, frank zane never got over 200lbs while winning, franco never got over 200lbs,chris dickerson was 185lbs. samir was barley over 200lbs larry scott was 5'7 and like 205 they all ranged from 5'5 to 5'9 with tiny waiste and great muscle bellies .lee labrada was only 185 at 5'6 shawn ray at 5'7 barley cracked 200lbs and finished in the top 3 5 times at the big O conteast


compare your self to people in your height range.

or your only gonna be dissapointed,,

you look good bro dont worry about it

well thanks bro!!! i think i came across wrong with the numbers but what i really meant is that at 200lbs which is another 8 lbs or so i would be able to bring up my weak points like calves, upper chest, arm thickness etc....i never lose anything after a cycle since i nail PCT and train even harder so if i can get there with one long run i will be able to safely maintain it while still staying healthy.....

i guess what i am comparing it too is the big guys at the gym that lift lighter weight and are HUGE.....but if you ask them if they always trained like that and they will tell you HELL NO i used to trained heavy as hell....get where i'm coming from?

 

[gautho]

all you big fuckers must have stayed on for long periods of time aat one point to get where you are....then once you have the symmetry and size are able to cut back and be safe about gear usage right??

I hardly ever come off, no libido issues whatsoever. I do this because i am pursuing that elusive pro card, not because i think its the healthiest thing to do.

 

[Nathan]

What are you doing with your diet? I do the following and, honestly, by eating like this getting down to 5% is not hard. And when I up my calories, I always gain size still. So far this has been very manageable and efficient for me. With each cycle, I would try and gain a little, and then cut a little, but make sure your metabolism is back up to normal when you come off. Then repeat the process and, at least for me, I haven't gone back up over 8% or so in years. When cycling, you need to take a breaks when off and eat at maintenance but if you do it naturally you don't really.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545408

When I am trying to make progress, my body always seems ready to go. I see so many people try these big long diets and I don't get it. You have to be continuously on top of things to get where you want to be.

 

[Vascular Freak]

you got any pics online i'd like to see what you look like..

this is the most recent.....i actually have abs but this pic doesn't do them justice haha

[img=http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4527/img02353fs4.th.jpg]

 

[Vascular Freak]

I hardly ever come off, no libido issues whatsoever. I do this because i am pursuing that elusive pro card, not because i think its the healthiest thing to do.

thanks for the input man.....props to you going for a pro card, thats takes serious discipline!!!!

 

[Vascular Freak]

What are you doing with your diet? I do the following and, honestly, by eating like this getting down to 5% is not hard. And when I up my calories, I always gain size still. So far this has been very manageable and efficient for me. With each cycle, I would try and gain a little, and then cut a little, but make sure your metabolism is back up to normal when you come off. Then repeat the process and, at least for me, I haven't gone back up over 8% or so in years. When cycling, you need to take a breaks when off and eat at maintenance but if you do it naturally you don't really.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545408

When I am trying to make progress, my body always seems ready to go. I see so many people try these big long diets and I don't get it. You have to be continuously on top of things to get where you want to be.

that is almost what i do to a T man!!! i will eat to slightly gain for a while then cut back the cals just a tad to dial it in then go back at it again.....right now i have been dieting for a month and the past week and next week i am hitting a cheat meal after every hardcore training session...clean cals but ALOT.....next week i will add in the primo and drop the cals back down for a month or so....up and down...up and down but it keep gains real clean and never sloppy!! BTW nathan you look sick bro!!

 

[Nathan]

that is almost what i do to a T man!!! i will eat to slightly gain for a while then cut back the cals just a tad to dial it in then go back at it again.....right now i have been dieting for a month and the past week and next week i am hitting a cheat meal after every hardcore training session...clean cals but ALOT.....next week i will add in the primo and drop the cals back down for a month or so....up and down...up and down but it keep gains real clean and never sloppy!! BTW nathan you look sick bro!!

Thanks boss and right on. It's the way to go and if you are doing it, then you aren't far off. From your pics, you have like two more of those dieting sessions to go dude. Seriously, press for it - take 12 weeks at one point and spend most of it dieting, but give yourself some breaks in between. And keep lowering the cals as you go. In the last few weeks, if you aren't happy, try dropping them a little lower still. For me, I don't do cardio so throwing in alittle extra cardio a few weeks out from a show seems to help slightly. Alternatively, go lower with cals. Dude, you are almost ther bf-wise.

 

[Vascular Freak]

Thanks boss and right on. It's the way to go and if you are doing it, then you aren't far off. From your pics, you have like two more of those dieting sessions to go dude. Seriously, press for it - take 12 weeks at one point and spend most of it dieting, but give yourself some breaks in between. And keep lowering the cals as you go. In the last few weeks, if you aren't happy, try dropping them a little lower still. For me, I don't do cardio so throwing in alittle extra cardio a few weeks out from a show seems to help slightly. Alternatively, go lower with cals. Dude, you are almost ther bf-wise.

i think i am needing just to keep the diet clean now for a good 8 weeks....i have been hitting am cardio for 30 mins then training hard around 5pm....everything comes in so quick if i leave out the high cal meal after the gym....for example today and average meal every 2 hours leading up to my training was 5 oz chicken, steamed broccoilli, and 1/4 raw oats (1/2 cup before gym).....BUT immediately after the gym i had 40 g whey and 1/2 cup oats then came home and 90 mins after my pwo meal i had...lol...12 oz steak, 3/4 cup oats with 1 scoop whey/strawberries/walnuts/and 2 tbsp peanut butter, and then had a huge piece of bannana nut bread (don't ask me why i ate that shit) the t3 kills my diet sometime...i get so damn hungry....i trained my ass of and ROCKED the legs tonight.....i am trying to see if high cals in the 2hour window will make me fat or increase gains???

but screw that.....i am running gear to cut with so thats what i am going to do!!! most people in person tell me i am real lean but always say how lean do you want to get.....go for size man....but i'll wait till winter for that if at all

 

[Nathan]

i think i am needing just to keep the diet clean now for a good 8 weeks....i have been hitting am cardio for 30 mins then training hard around 5pm....everything comes in so quick if i leave out the high cal meal after the gym....for example today and average meal every 2 hours leading up to my training was 5 oz chicken, steamed broccoilli, and 1/4 raw oats (1/2 cup before gym).....BUT immediately after the gym i had 40 g whey and 1/2 cup oats then came home and 90 mins after my pwo meal i had...lol...12 oz steak, 3/4 cup oats with 1 scoop whey/strawberries/walnuts/and 2 tbsp peanut butter, and then had a huge piece of bannana nut bread (don't ask me why i ate that shit) the t3 kills my diet sometime...i get so damn hungry....i trained my ass of and ROCKED the legs tonight.....i am trying to see if high cals in the 2hour window will make me fat or increase gains???

but screw that.....i am running gear to cut with so thats what i am going to do!!! most people in person tell me i am real lean but always say how lean do you want to get.....go for size man....but i'll wait till winter for that if at all

Too much food. When I am deep into dieting my day looks like:

1/2 cup egg whites
1 cup rolled oats
1 can of tuna
1 cup of rolled oats.
1 can of tuna
workout
30-40g of gatorade and 50g of whey protein
lean chicken or steak and a veggie
1 can of tuna
protein bar
3-5 tbsps of ANPB

That's more or less the whole day and it sucks. It never starts like that but if I go 8 weeks, that's the last 3 weeks or so and I find I have to do it to get leaner once I am under 7-8%. I can tolerate it for a few weeks but afterwards it is too much. If I never did it though, I'd never get past the sticking points. To get really lean, you need to be really strict. Fuck the T3 and cardio. It's ALL food. All of it. Every last single bit of it. You don't even need to lift weights much. You just need to be PRECISE about what goes in your body.
If you aren't being precise, it is far too easy to overeat. I can usually tell whether or not I am on track but how I am feeling.

 

[Vascular Freak]

Too much food. When I am deep into dieting my day looks like:

1/2 cup egg whites
1 cup rolled oats
1 can of tuna
1 cup of rolled oats.
1 can of tuna
workout
30-40g of gatorade and 50g of whey protein
lean chicken or steak and a veggie
1 can of tuna
protein bar
3-5 tbsps of ANPB

That's more or less the whole day and it sucks. It never starts like that but if I go 8 weeks, that's the last 3 weeks or so and I find I have to do it to get leaner once I am under 7-8%. I can tolerate it for a few weeks but afterwards it is too much. If I never did it though, I'd never get past the sticking points. To get really lean, you need to be really strict. Fuck the T3 and cardio. It's ALL food. All of it. Every last single bit of it. You don't even need to lift weights much. You just need to be PRECISE about what goes in your body.
If you aren't being precise, it is far too easy to overeat. I can usually tell whether or not I am on track but how I am feeling.

K to you bro!!! thanks for refreshing all that in my mind....i get caught up in the mindset where i am running gear like test/tren/igf and always talk myself into thinking that i should eat otherwise i am wasting the gear....last summer i went 100% diet mode using test/primo/winstrol and was like an anatomy chart.....thanks bro....i need that extra push!!!

BTW nathan....i am not one to ask for diet advice....i consider myself real knowledgable but i really would like to see what your diet is like in a little more detail meaning time between meals etc.....i mainly stick to meats/poultry/fish/oats/greens/oils and thats ALL!!