Just how slow does Micellar digest?

[javaguru]

I just received an 80 pound shipping drum of protein at work from the protein factory, 60lbs milk isolate and 20 pounds iso chill whey. One thing about whey is that in the absence of a mixed meal, whey alone, 40% of the amino were metabolized by by teh liver for energy. In theory one should take whey as a mixed meal to prevent this. I remember years ago when ckd first re-popularized among bodybuilders people were being kicked out of ketosis when using whey proteins, so if doing a ckd one should probably stick to slower digesting proteins. Also, the presence of casein and whey in the sam emeal shoudl slow down the entry of whey becasue it would likely get caught up in the "gel effect" of casein and the casomorphins would definitely slow down absorption.

 

[Smokescreen]

Bottom line...what are you saying here? That CFM whey digests too fast and thus it is not a great protein source? Then what would it be good for? For pre and post workouts? What about hydrolyzed proteins for pre and post workouts with CFM whey? Or should CFM whey be used alone for pre and post without and hydros? Explain to me how the liver would use whey for energy? Maybe if I take it without carbs. But what if I am taking the whey with carbs?

 

[javaguru]

I would suggest using whey with carbs and personally I use it during my workout and immediately after. Otherwise, I use milk isolate exclusively. These are two times I want protein digested rapidly. I'll get a more sustained release protein 1 hour post workout when I have chicken or lean beef. Most of my diet is based on timing, the right nutrients at the right times.

 

[Smokescreen]

What about hydro whey for pre and post? So milk isolate is all you use? All day? Honestly java...is it becaues of money issues? Or just because you know this is better? Or both? So for nighttime...before bed. You would suggest milk isolate with flax? Over Aussie casein with flax? Or even 20/CFM Whey with 80/Casein with flax?

 

[javaguru]

Remember, milk isolate contains all the wonderful protein subfractions of whey(from the 20%),all of the wonderful subfractions of casein(80%), and the high mineral content. The fact it's relatively cheap is just gravy. I'll give Scott Connelly credit for being ahead of his time for having milk isolate as the #1 protein ingredient in met-rx. I don't use a hydro whey because the hydrolization process destroys many of the sub fractions, not that its' a huge deal considering how small these amounts are compared to my total daily intake. I use iso chill with added aminogen(natural digestive enzymes) for during and post workout. At night use milk isolate and flax or fish oil. I prefer fish oil because the research done showing the beneficial effects of omega 3's was done using dha/epa both naturally occuring in fish oil but requiring conversion to them from flax.

Another advantage of milk isolate is that you get a better amino acid profile than whey or casein alone. Whey is relatively low in glutamine.

 

[Smokescreen]

Milk Isolate has a better amino profile than CFM Whey? What?! Than why is whey considered the top notch protein? Why is whey low in glutamine? So hydro proteins are worthless??? Seriously...are they? And what about glutamine peptides? Aren't they hydrolyzed too?

 

[javaguru]

Better as in more balanced. Whey is low in glutamine compared to casein and milk isolate. You get roughly 10.3g of glutamine from every 100g of milk isolate protein, whey has about 8 grams or which is over 20% less glutamine. Whey does have more BCAA"s roughly 23% bcaa while milk isolate is 20% bcaa (one reason I use whey in workout and post workout shake). In whey advertisements it's often touted as the "best" protein because the PER is the highest of all proteins. What they fail to tell you is that PER is based on rats and not humans, rats have different amino acid requirements than humans. Therefore, whey is only conclusively the best protein source if you're a rat. The PCDAAS is the most current standard for measuring protein quality IN HUMANS . Whey, casein and milk isolate all receive a perfect score of 1.0 while meats score between .8 and .92 on the scale. I consider milk isolate superior because it contains the functional properties of casein and whey as well as the mineral content. It's also much more mixable than casein and has a better "mouth feel."

Acid hydrolized whey is useless if you're looking for the special sub fractions that have health enhancing benefits. However, the point of using hydro is the rapid absorption and the amino acids so for the purpose of getting aminos into the blood quickly it is very useful. I just prefer the cheaper iso chill whey with aminogen. There are essentially two ways to hydrolize proteins, one is with acid which damages the sub fractions and the other is enzymes which are much more gentle, like aminogen.

Likewise with the the glutamine peptides, you're taking them for the glutamine and not any potential sub fractions. Enzymatic hydrolysis will not damage the protein.

 

[Smokescreen]

I use 35 grams of CFM whey and 15 grams of Hydro protein for post workout. Is ther e anything wrong with that? Should i change something here? But for pre workout I use 50grams of CFM whey and 60 grams of maltodextrin. I do add the glutamine peptides for pre and post.

 

[javaguru]

seems fine.

 

[Smokescreen]

Ok...great. So from what you have showed me so far. Would you say that ANY other protein shake that I take during the day as an MRP, it should be 100% Milk Isolate??? Even night time? What bout just Aussie Casein for night time shake? Do I add Glutamine peptides to ALL shakes? Or just pre and post? What about night time? Add glute there too? BTW java...what are your stats?