IS the ASSAULT on Mrs. YATES over?

[velvett]

An interesting bit of info, I apologize if someone had already posted this.


Before she killed her children she had been institutionalized and the DOCTORS saw fit to release her. Even after her husbands plees to keep her because she was not yet well, the institution (and/or Doctors) denied his request.

Her husband has record of his calling for her to be helped and reinstitutionalized up until the event happened.

Hmm.


Things that make you wonder, eh?

 

[starfish]

I agree with Velvett..

I don't know a lot about this case but I have read that she had 5 children and experienced serious post partum depression with her other births. She was also under the care of doctors- and released from a hospital..

Post partum depression is a very real illness.. I think it was extremely irresponsible for her husband to want to keep having children. If my wife were that sick, I would want her to get happy and healthy in order to raise the children allready born.. Not have more.

I think a lot of people- the husband and her doctors could have prevented this.

 

[velvett]

I'm reading the the court documents from the hospital on courttv.com right now. It's actually quite fascinating as it is sad for the lives lost.


Back to reading....

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

It is also notable that she was a fundamentalist Chrsitian, as was her husband. Definitely a factor.

Doctors wanted her out of the institution because they are insurance whores.

 

[velvett]

It is also notable that she was a fundamentalist Chrsitian, as was her husband. Definitely a factor. Doctors wanted her out of the institution because they are insurance whores.

Excuse my ignorance.

What is a funamentalist Christian?


She was in and out of hospitals and if you read through her Psychiatric Assessment one would have to wonder how you could let a woman with this mindset care for or be in the company of children.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

Velvett,

Fundamentalist. One who regards the Bible as a literal interpretation of history and as dogma about humanity and its relationship to God.

It is typical of such families to have a lot of children - the Yates's may have felt pressure to go along with that even though Andrea was clearly incapable of being a mother (and then some).

It is also typical of such people to put forth so much effort to look good (righteous, upstanding, etc.) to others, that internal pressures mount. Combine this with psychological imbalance and you get dead kids.

 

[velvett]

Fundamentalist. One who regards the Bible as a literal interpretation of history and as dogma about humanity and its relationship to God.

Ironic.


Thou shall not kill.

 

[Burning_Inside]

I often wonder how people would react if let's say their wife suddenly had this problem, and it turned out to be a severe case and she did something messed up like that. Imagine, a woman, your wife, who is usually little miss priss turns into a raving lunatic with no sense of comprehension of good and bad and kills people and whatever. Then what do you do? Do you say "The hell with that bitch, Fucking shoot her in the face!" still? Or let's look at it this way, some of you people who advocate this whole eye for an eye thing, and could care less about trying to understand that brain chemistry is a fucked up thing, and can and will make you do things against your will, and refuse to believe that someone can end up under extreme circumstances losing all self control and doing bad things, well what if this happened to you? What if you got hit on the head for example, and it messed things up and you become some kind of violent headcase? Would you want to be put to death, or would you want someone to help you become normal? It's easy for a lot of idiots today to say the hell with people that they don't know or care about, especially if it's not them in the situation, but you got to realize, it can allllllways happen to you, and that whole outlook will come around to bite your ass clean off. I think what's wrong with this planet anymore is people are quickly seperating themselves form each other, everyone's in it for themselves, but I mean we're all in it together, there should be more compassion and understanding and logic, but o well..Sorry for the "flower child" outlook, but that's the way I think it should be.

 

[alexiarenee]

This lady DESERVES to die!!! Of course she is metally ill, isn't everybody who is capable of killing their own children....
it's okay because if she isn''t put to death here then god will deal with her later on...........

 

[satanic goatslayer]

Tear her uterus out with a small garden rake and run a line of razor wire through her intestines.

 

[Deepsquat]

wow ! Ryan I have n't been to the board much in the last year but i must say that you are the biggest pussy whipped mother fu**er I have seen in my 39 years of life on this Planet!!!!!!
How about if someone were to kill amember of your family and then claim that they were depressed!? Lame ass excuse isn't it????
"The mental Health issuse women face in this country" What about the mental health issues men face in this country......????? Like pussy whipped motherfu**ers that their mothers obviously trained to respect.women ...by shoving a flashlight up thier rectum!
How about if we make abortion retroactive and take out all the pussywhipped motherfu**ers that have no self respect or common decentcy for the life of 5 children but does recpect the life of the one who drowned them!?

 

[casavant]

Like pussy whipped motherfu**ers that their mothers obviously trained to respect.women ...by shoving a flashlight up thier rectum!

I'm having trouble understanding this part.

 

[Deepsquat]

YOu didn't see the movie Cybill ...mom taught her respect by molesting her with a flashlight ....Also anyone who has this much symphathy for someone based soly on there sex..has obviously been raised by a single mother and must watch Liftime network 24\7 The Man Hater Network
You were raised by a single mother ....weren't you Ryan???

 

[p0ink]

Ryan, the bottom line here is, she killed her children. I dont see how you can justify murder. Maybe if all of her children were trying to kill her, then maybe it would be justifiable...but i can't see some toddlers inflicting serious injury on anyone. Ok, let's say she is mentally ill, what is the point in keeping her around? Will she be able to benefit society any being alive and living off of the taxpayer's money? I don't think so Ryan. I say flip the switch, it is just one less psychopath we have living in our society.

 

[PinK233]

Her husand, society's failure to understand these types of mental issues, and Mrs. Yate's illness killed those 5 children.

No more, no less.

Typical liberal....blame everyone else for your fucked up problems....I'm sorry this bitch deserves DEATH...she killed her 5 children!! You're insane....

 

[saint808]

mental ilness is too easy to fake firt off... and second off even if you are mentally ill and you kill your children... i am sorry but we have laws to prevent that.. i am all for it... i saw we recycle body parts too... you don't wanna live in my world...

 

[starfish]

The maturity of this place never fails to impress me

 

[RyanH]

The maturity of this place never fails to impress me

It's always easy to base important policy questions on emotions such as rage or anger. The enlightened, however, reject such attempts, and realize that the solution to any wise policy decision is to a) look at the facts, b) cause and effect, and c) the solutions to this important policy decision.

Several people have simply failed to do this, that's why we have a few wise legislators along with a few very intelligent judges, along with millions of wise Americans.

Facts: Mrs. Yates unfortunately took the lives of her children.

Cause: A serious, reoccuring case of post-pardum depression.

Effect: The children lose their lives

Solution A: proposed short-term solution by people wishing to act out of revenge or emotion---act as barbaric as Mrs. Yates' post-pardum depression did when it took the lives of those children, and put Mrs. Yates to death.
What implications will Mrs. Yates' murder have on future cases where women are suffering from post-pardum depression? None, they will still kill their young children since the death penalty is not an effective deterrent to crime.

Solution B: Provide Mrs. Yates with psychiatric assistance, and set a valuable precedent by showing other women in America that post-pardum depression is a very serious illness with severe implications if help is not obtained. Result: women will begin to get help, the problem will be reduced, and both women and their children's lives will be saved.

Clearly, Solution B wins the day.

Ryan.

 

[starfish]

He shoots.. He scores

I completely agree with you, Ryanh

 

[PinK233]

Sorry some of us are HUMAN....for those of us that aren't brainwashed it's normal to have a reaction like that....

 

[big4life]

Is she mentally ill?
Yes. No sane person would drown one of their kids, much less five of their kids.

Should she get the death penalty?

I don't know. I do know that she should not be treated and released back into society, without serving a good portion of her life behind bars.

She took one of the most sacred things, a childs trust in their parent, and used it to kill her children. Those children didn't look at their mother as someone who would hurt them. They saw someone who was supposed to protect them from everything bad. They trusted her and now their lives are over.

So, I say treat her, but keep her in jail for a very long time.

 

[starfish]

I guess form what I know about the case, which isn't that much.

She was released from a hospital so her doctors and husband knew she was sick. Why was she even allowed to be with her kids alone???

If there was a mother beating her kids and then Child Protective Services allowed her kids to be with them anyway- you guys would be bashing Child Protective Services for putting the children in danger.

Many people knew she was sick- many people could have prevented this. Then maybe, her children would still be alive and Mrs. Yates could get the treatment she needed to raise her children in a happy and healthy way.

DO YOU REALLY THINK ANYONE ASKS TO HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS??? Forget death, I bet that is hell.

I hope they can cure post partum depression/psychosis one day.

starfish

 

[spentagn]

If you can't handle post-partum depression, why have five kids? Let me guess, that's society's fault, too.

 

[starfish]

spentagn,

I said in my earlier post that I thought is was very irresponsible for that family to continue having kids knowing she had post partum depression with prior births. It takes TWO to make a baby.

As for society, 1 in 3 women will experience post partum depression, although not as severe as Mrs. Yates. That could very well be your wife or someone you care about. Wouldn't it be great if we could find a way to help??

It's so easy for men to say child birth is easy.. Women are realesed from the hospital and to be blunt- they just made another human life and spit it out!! Try it sometime.

Do you know everything that happens to your body?? Hormones, etc?? Do you know how much the chemical levels in your brain are depleted from childbitrth stress. Some people can't produce more. Is this their fault?? Too bad we can't help them.


If you want more children, then post partum depression should be your problem too. But I agree, they had no business having more babies if they knew she was sick.

 

[FreakMonster]

It's always easy to base important policy questions on emotions such as rage or anger. The enlightened, however, reject such attempts, and realize that the solution to any wise policy decision is to a) look at the facts, b) cause and effect, and c) the solutions to this important policy decision.

Several people have simply failed to do this, that's why we have a few wise legislators along with a few very intelligent judges, along with millions of wise Americans.

Facts: Mrs. Yates unfortunately took the lives of her children.

Cause: A serious, reoccuring case of post-pardum depression.

Effect: The children lose their lives

Solution A: proposed short-term solution by people wishing to act out of revenge or emotion---act as barbaric as Mrs. Yates' post-pardum depression did when it took the lives of those children, and put Mrs. Yates to death.
What implications will Mrs. Yates' murder have on future cases where women are suffering from post-pardum depression? None, they will still kill their young children since the death penalty is not an effective deterrent to crime.

Solution B: Provide Mrs. Yates with psychiatric assistance, and set a valuable precedent by showing other women in America that post-pardum depression is a very serious illness with severe implications if help is not obtained. Result: women will begin to get help, the problem will be reduced, and both women and their children's lives will be saved.

Clearly, Solution B wins the day.

Ryan.

I GUESS RYAN NEVER READ MY POST!!

Go back and read it again!!!

 

[spentagn]

spentagn,

I said in my earlier post that I thought is was very irresponsible for that family to continus having kids knowing she had post partun depression with prior births. It takes TWO to make a baby.

True, but as you know, it only takes ONE to keep it.

As for society, 1 in 3 women will experience post partum depression, although not as severe as Mrs. Yates. That could very well be your wife or someone you care about. Wouldn't it be great if we could find a way to help??

My wife DID have it. She got over it. So did my mother.

It's so easy for men to say child birth is easy.. Women are realesed from the hospital and to be blunt- they just made another human life and spit it out!! Try it sometime.

If I could, I honestly would. I hated seeing my wife in pain.

Do you know everything that happens to your body?? Hormones, etc??

No, do you? Everything? Didn't think so. I took the classes, I've dealt with it from a male standpoint. Are you familiar with male post-partum depression (no, I'm not comparing it to a woman's)?

If you want more children, then post partum depression should be your problem too. But I agree, they had no business having more babies if they knew she was sick.

Once again, men do suffer a form of it. It's documented. I've been there, and it sucked. My daughter is still alive, though.

 

[starfish]

spentgn,

What classes?? You have a degree in psychology??

Some people can't just get over it - that simple statement alone proves how ignorant you are about depression.

Your wife is very lucky.. I bet all women wish they could just get over it.

 

[spentagn]

spentgn,

What classes?? You have a degree in psychology??

Some people can't just get over it - that simple statement alone proves how ignorant you are about depression.

Your wife is very lucky.. I bet all women wish they could just get over it.

No, I don't have a degree in psychology. I would never enter such a greed driven, heartless field as that. And before you question me on that comment, I do have some personal insight. You inquired about hormonal changes in the female body. That sounds like the endocrine system to me. Apparently the literature I read during my wife's pregnancy didn't discuss such changes, nor was it mentioned in any of the various biology classes I've taken.

I'm far from ignorant about depression. If you must, ask musclebrains if I have much experience with the glorious profession of psychology, and how it prefers to manage depression.

Yes, my wife is lucky. As are all other women, save one recent individual, who've had children. I would not be surprised, however, if Mrs. Yates is "let off easy," several similar cases develop.

Please, feel free to make further assumptions regarding my experiences and intelligence. And thanks for ignoring the rest of my post.

 

[starfish]

I asked you a question..

To say someone should just get over it is ignorant..

Maybe in some of the literature you read about your wife's pregnancy there SHOULD have been something mentioned about hormones and stuff- isn't this what Ryanh is saying???
To be honest, I don't think I ever saw much publicity on the subject until Marie Osmand went through it. I saw her on Larry King Live or something.


Not everyone with a Psychology degree is greed driven- another ignorant statement.

If you suffer from depression, good for you for talking to Musclebrains.

I have also been there and it sucks- I would not wish it on anyone...

starfish..

By the way, weren't you the one who asked aout taking Psychology or Sociology in school?? I could have gotten you out of those classes with an A- in a month- never even having to go but you would have gotten credit. But you always seem so pissed at me..

 

[spentagn]

I asked you a question..

To say someone should just get over it is ignorant..

Nope. It's an opinion. Over simplified, yes. But how many woman kill their children? So, is it safe to assume that for the vast majority, women can "get over it?"

Maybe in some of the literature you read about your wife's pregnancy there SHOULD have been something mentioned about hormones and stuff- isn't this what Ryanh is saying???
To be honest, I don't think I ever saw much publicity on the subject until Marie Osmand went through it. I saw her on Larry King Live or something.

There was content regarding hormonal changes. I was being facetious in my previous post. I had thought that was obvious.

Not everyone with a Psychology degree is greed driven- another ignorant statement.

No, not everyone is. But a large percentage, in my experience, are.

If you suffer from depression, good for you for talking to Musclebrains.

I don't suffer from depression. I did. I got over it. Now I suffer from ambition.

By the way, weren't you the one who asked aout taking Psychology or Sociology in school?? I could have gotten you out of those classes with an A- in a month- never even having to go but you would have gotten credit. But you always seem so pissed at me..

I'm glad you're so skilled at these studies. As far as seeming pissed at you, I'm honestly confused. I do not recall another thread where we've expressed conflicting opinions. And I try not to get pissed at anything I see on the internet. As for the classes, I chose psychology. I figured it'd be the lesser of two evils

 

[CRNT93]

mental ilness is too easy to fake firt off...

I hear it's VERY hard to fake mental illness,especially
something like psychosis and insanity.

 

[velvett]

Mrs. Yates is certainly guilty of killing her children no doubt.

As I understand it from her records that are online, she has been in and out of institutions since 94' - she's also by the way had children since around that time.

She had tried to killer herself (steak knife) to prevent herself from doing harm to her children (so she is documented as saying) which was documented before the case regarding the killing of her children.

This woman should have never had any more children after the first (it's a Christian thang - breed and God will look well down upon you ) and she should not have been released from any of the institutions she found herself in (that would be an insurance thang - your times up - pay up or ship out.) How can you let a woman like this be in the company of children or the care giver of children??

My first reaction to this case was that this woman should die - no questions asked. I'm not sure how I feel about it now that I've read pages and pages of her instituional records. She's certainly guilty - but I don't believe she is entirely responsible.

She may fry for killing her kids but she shouldn't be the only one to foot the responsiblity of the loss of life.


Regardless of the outcome - her children will remain dead.

 

[Sushi X]

so ryan, how does one become enlightened such as the left wing establishment? you keep calling everyone who disagrees with the LWE unenlightened. i disagree. truth be told none of us are truly enlightened. if we were we'd all have the answers to everything and we'd all live in Utopia.

 

[RyanH]

update: weeks later and it now seems that the assault on Mrs. Yates has just begun.

Ryan.

 

[chesty]

Kill that fucking bitch where she sits. Rip her fucking head off, and shit down the remaining hole. Then set her carcus on fire and shove a pole up her fucking twat and parade that skank ho cunt around the country.

Then give her fucking soul to me.

 

[p0ink]

update: weeks later and it now seems that the assault on Mrs. Yates has just begun.

Ryan.

ryan, if she were to get the chair, i would pay some good money to roast marshmallows upon the flames sprouting from her head. cant you feel the love?

 

[ROMAGOLDSBACKBITCHES]

Kill that fucking bitch where she sits. Rip her fucking head off, and shit down the remaining hole. Then set her carcus on fire and shove a pole up her fucking twat and parade that skank ho cunt around the country.

Then give her fucking soul to me.

I think I love you.

 

[OMEGA]

Kill that fucking bitch where she sits. Rip her fucking head off, and shit down the remaining hole. Then set her carcus on fire and shove a pole up her fucking twat and parade that skank ho cunt around the country.

Then give her fucking soul to me.

how is your cycle going ?

 

[gwl9dta4]

RYAN IS "THE" EXAMPLE ON WHY SO MANY HATE LIBERALS. IT'S LIKE THEY ARE MISSING SOME PART OF THEIR BRAIN WHICH CONTROLLS COMMON SENCE.


This particular female should recieve no lees then the death penalty. If Ryan feels she could be rehabilitated and studied then let him trust her with his future kids and hire her as a full time live in nanny. Otherwise open mouth insert foot.

He may say what will killing her accomplish? Well, what did her killing her kids accomplish?

we are not talking about a store robbery here Ryan. And why do you think they changed her defence strategy to insanity, hummm?

 

[Sushi X]

is this guy cool or what.

 

[OMEGA]

is this guy cool or what.

I told ya so I told ya so!!!!!!!!

i told you all before he got here

gwL is the man!!!


except I disagree with his blanket statement that " all liberals lack common sense"

and also his use of the word hate.....

but hey I am off cycle and a bit touchy

 

[Sushi X]

it's ok omega, i understand.

have some sake, it'll calm you down.

 

[gwl9dta4]

is this guy cool or what.

HE HE, thanks for the compliment dude. I love America, as a kid i dreamed with my friends about coming to the US. It's just great. But i worry that some of these liberals will undermine the very fabric of the great USA.

 

[OMEGA]

it's ok omega, i understand.

have some sake, it'll calm you down.

Saki?

stuff is nasty but thanks for the idea

I'll have a glass of wine instead

 

[Sushi X]

gwl9dta4, i hear ya man. you should come anyway.

omega, wine is ok. personally i've never had sake. i'm a hard lemonade man myself if not that then killians red irish beer.

 

[gwl9dta4]

I told ya so I told ya so!!!!!!!!

i told you all before he got here

gwL is the man!!!


except I disagree with his blanket statement that " all liberals lack common sense"

and also his use of the word hate.....

but hey I am off cycle and a bit touchy

Thank you too my firend. But don't worry, i know you are a liberal , or so i think. I know there are many types of liberals, as i am one myself, but i feel that the best government is the government that governs the least.

So with the above statement, i really hate some of the extreme liberals whom try to have legislation passed to "to protect" you Americans from yourselves. Remeber that i grew in hard core Communist enviroment, so i know first hand how the government will encroach on you if you set the right legislation. This is why i love the USA, total freedom. Well almost, you can't legally juice.

 

[OMEGA]

Remeber that i grew in hard core Communist enviroment, so i know first hand how the government will encroach on you if you set the right legislation. This is why i love the USA, total freedom.

I really appreaciate that perspective in the fullest sense.

 

[thebabydoc]

I can't believe what I'm reading here.

Ryan, I would NEVER have imagined this but I am with you on this one.

Maybe that is because of my profession.
Maybe it's because in December I hospitalized a good friend of mine for postpartum psychosis a week after her delivery.

Do the people responding to this thread really believe there's any way a sane person/woman could kill her 5 children?!?!??
The very act is the definition of insanity.
The prosecutors should stop playing their stupid politcally-motivated games and agree to semi-permanent incarceration at a mental institution (a la Hinkley) followed by mandatory sterilization and save the people of Texas the costs of a trial and the multiple (mandatory) appeals following a death sentence.

I personally am PRO-death penalty. But not here.
The blood-thirst displayed in this thread is both embarrassing and horrifying.

 

[fTxAg01]

Didnt read the whole thread but did anyone mention that she waited until her husband left home to work to kill her kids? she should be put to death. for her to kill her kids when she had no opposition she should be put to death no matter what depression excuse she had can condone her actions. she wilfully comitted murder five times when she had no oppostion period. she is responsible for what she did. how can anyone symphathize with her actions?

 

[Sebass67]

Thebabydoc: I am looking at your avatar and i see a nice fat pic of Bin Laden...maybe he is insane too. Maybe you guys should put him in a facility and rehabilitate him. After all, his act was insanity too.

I guess emotions control you too eh?

Screw the circumstances, 5 children are killed. She did it and now she goes to burn at the stake.

This is the safest way to deal with things. We may have some "disjustice" or whatever bolshit. FUCKTHAT. And than one day she goes and hangs herself or kills someone else. Yeah, great good your system did. For every little success story, if there is one, there are horror stories.

Either way, you rid the world of one more depressed disturbed soul that probably can't be rehabbed anyhow. Simply, the money spent on the research is simply a waste. The lives gained by killing or keeping these people out of society far outweigh those lost in "injustice".


gwl9.... Polish? What part of Poland are you from...I am Polish too but my parents immigrated to Canada in 83...

 

[thebabydoc]

she wilfully comitted murder five times when she had no oppostion period. she is responsible for what she did. how can anyone symphathize with her actions?

1. No one here has expressed sympathy or empathy for her actions; the murder of 5 humans- children or not, is horrific. Finding her insane neither condones, excuses, nor lessens the atrocity of the act
2. How can you use the word "willful" to describe her actions unless you have somehow figured a way to go into her mind?
3. When exactly would you consider someone insane if not in this case?
Although I haven't had the pleasure to examine this shell of a human, what I will tell you AS A MEDICAL DOCTOR is that this woman was (criminally?) insane. There is no suggestion or evidence of premeditation. All evidence shows that this woman cared deeply for her children and there was no evidence of malice, ill-feeling for having children, or any Munchausen's disease (by proxy or otherwise). In fact, she tried to kill herself several times apparently because she thought she might harm her children.

Seabass: As for the Bin Laden reference, I can only guess that you must be joking. A small difference here: PREMEDITATION. The act of a madman is not necessarily the act of someone whose mental deficiency eliminates their ability to distinguish right from wrong.

While I don't entirely disagree with your characterization of OUR system and the fact that the mentally ill often present a serious danger to society and usually cannot be rehabilitated or cured, you are suggesting euthanizing people who do not wish to die. In other words, MURDER. That makes you no better than the people you advocate killing. In fact, that makes you worse because while their actions may be beyond their control, yours represent a concious decision to take life.

 

[Sebass67]

War takes lives too...
But that those are inherent in the process...
There will be flaws in every system...
The one i advocate will prevent the most deaths of innocent people.

 

[RyanH]

RYAN IS "THE" EXAMPLE ON WHY SO MANY HATE LIBERALS. IT'S LIKE THEY ARE MISSING SOME PART OF THEIR BRAIN WHICH CONTROLLS COMMON SENCE.


This particular female should recieve no lees then the death penalty. If Ryan feels she could be rehabilitated and studied then let him trust her with his future kids and hire her as a full time live in nanny. Otherwise open mouth insert foot.

He may say what will killing her accomplish? Well, what did her killing her kids accomplish?

we are not talking about a store robbery here Ryan. And why do you think they changed her defence strategy to insanity, hummm?

I am completely unaware of a ubiquitous dislike for liberals since so many United States Senators as well as United State Supreme Court Justices are considered "liberal."

But that's not the important issue, now is it? The issue is that the law recognizes insanity as an affirmative defense to murder. Legislators, in all states, decided to recognize this long standing defense for a reason----because it makes good policy to offer assistance, as opposed to contempt, to those suffering from mental illnesses.

By wishing to exact revenge on Mrs. Yates you are only reacting, not acting. You should more closely examine the policy reasons for recognizing the defense of insanity.

Ryan.

 

[spentagn]

Babydoc, since when does your degree make you an expert on insanity?

 

[RyanH]

Thank you too my firend. But don't worry, i know you are a liberal , or so i think. I know there are many types of liberals, as i am one myself, but i feel that the best government is the government that governs the least.

heh, heh. We see what happens when government bows from the stage, don't we? plane crashes, terrorists attacks, fleeced consumers, damaged environment, poverty, disease, etc.

Great idea gwl.

 

[spentagn]

heh, heh. We see what happens when government bows from the stage, don't we? plane crashes, terrorists attacks, fleeced consumers, damaged environment, poverty, disease, etc.

Great idea gwl.

As if Poland's history is any brighter...

 

[RyanH]

I can't believe what I'm reading here.

Ryan, I would NEVER have imagined this but I am with you on this one.

Maybe that is because of my profession.
Maybe it's because in December I hospitalized a good friend of mine for postpartum psychosis a week after her delivery.

Do the people responding to this thread really believe there's any way a sane person/woman could kill her 5 children?!?!??
The very act is the definition of insanity.
The prosecutors should stop playing their stupid politcally-motivated games and agree to semi-permanent incarceration at a mental institution (a la Hinkley) followed by mandatory sterilization and save the people of Texas the costs of a trial and the multiple (mandatory) appeals following a death sentence.

I personally am PRO-death penalty. But not here.
The blood-thirst displayed in this thread is both embarrassing and horrifying.

the expense of the appeals process is a very good point, babydoc. There is no way 12 sensible jurors are going to find that Mrs. Yates was not mentally insane at the TIME she committed those murders. And, hypothetically, even is a jury rejected the defense, neither a judge or any of the appellate courts are bound by the verdict.

This is the definition of insanity as recognized by most states. If the jury finds Mrs. Yates meets this definition, then the charge of murder is negated:

"Did the defendant lack the ability at the time of his actions to either 1) know the wrongfulness of his actions; or 2) understand the nature and quality of his actions?"

This is the test, now does Mrs. Yates meet it? It's difficult to say that she doesn't.

 

[spentagn]

"Did the defendant lack the ability at the time of his actions to either 1) know the wrongfulness of his actions; or 2) understand the nature and quality of his actions?"

This is the test, now does Mrs. Yates meet it? It's difficult to say that she doesn't.

It's difficult to say that she does.

 

[RyanH]

It's difficult to say that she does.

medical experts exist for a reason----to enlighten the jury on the question of whether Mrs. Yates understood the wrongfulness of her actions. Medical experts associated with Mrs. Yates seem to overwhemingly agree----Mrs. Yates did not understand the wrongfulness of her actions nor did she understand the nature of her actions.

Soon it will be up to 12 of your Texas peers to decide whether medical science and common sense wins the day or whether harsh, vengful punishment does. Surely, the former will prevail.

 

[RyanH]

their are 2 culprits at play here:

1. Mr. Yates--who believed women should homeschool their children and that women only exist to serve men and procreate.

2. Mrs. Yates illness.

those are the real issues.

 

[Peyote Killa]

medical experts exist for a reason----to enlighten the jury on the question of whether Mrs. Yates understood the wrongfulness of her actions. Medical experts associated with Mrs. Yates seem to overwhemingly agree----Mrs. Yates did not understand the wrongfulness of her actions nor did she understand the nature of her actions.

Soon it will be up to 12 of your Texas peers to decide whether medical science and common sense wins the day or whether harsh, vengful punishment does. Surely, the former will prevail.

I hope so too, seeing how I'm in Texas and all. It actually happened like 3 blocks from where I live in Clear Lake.
Actually I think they should put her in a room with a tub full of water, and a guy with whatever problem they are claiming she has. Then the guy would drown her, and case over.

 

[FreakMonster]

More than a half dozen expert witnesses have been subpoenaed to testify on Yates’s behalf. But Gerald Treece, associate dean of the South Texas College of Law in Houston, says that Yates’s lawyers have a difficult job trying to convince jurors in the death penalty capital of America to buy the insanity defense. “Texas is a very tough state on the insanity defense,” Treece says. “The defense has to show that the individual suffered from a mental disease or defect that rendered it impossible for him to know the difference between right and wrong. We are in the minority of states that have such a high standard for insanity ... If that is your defense in Texas, that is not good news.”


Regardless of whether she is insane or not she will get life in prison. The insanity defense isn't going to work in Texas.

 

[Hogdude]

Uh Ryan, one question, exactly WHEN is it not ok to butcher your children? I suppose since these were younger children, and couldn't shake mom off as she was putting them putting their heads in the water one by one, that she has the right? When exactly does a child have the right to exist without it being ok to be disposed of like a piece of garbage? 10?, 18?

I guess once you agree like Ryan that you can kill a baby at any time what would be wrong with killing them few months or years later? And since liberals are in favor of killing the weak and mentally challenged (Dr. Pete Singer, Yale University says these people should be put down like a crippled pet) you can be assured that people like Ryan will be the one passing laws to find genetic flaws in the womb, and have these people killed before birth, in the name of "compassion". I just wonder what he will do when when homosexual behavior is defined as a genetic disorder? Should genetic flaws be allowed to reproduce? This is the world that Ryan and his ilk are bringing us to.

 

[bigguns7]

I'm with you Ryan. I hope she doesn't get the death penalty either. I hope she's tortured and then brutally murdered by the inmates in her cell block.

 

[bigguns7]

you are suggesting euthanizing people who do not wish to die. In other words, MURDER. That makes you no better than the people you advocate killing. In fact, that makes you worse because while their actions may be beyond their control, yours represent a concious decision to take life.

Didn't you just say you were pro death penalty? Do you think it's conceivable that the men who are fried in the chair do not wish to die? Isn't execution a concious decision to take life?

You should choose a side of the fence to stand on doc.

 

[chesty]

Insanity is a trumped up bullshit defense! That bitch had motive, opportunity, and capability. So wht if she says she is satan? I could say that too. But you know what, she knew exactly what she was doing. She waited for hubby to go to work, killed the kids. She even had to chase one around the house to kill him, and then she called her hubby at work to let him know and then called the police to let them know.

Cycle is over had to stop for Marines. But it was going good though.

 

[Zebo]

Either way her life is over.

Its irrelevant what you think.

Don't Mess with Texas........

 

[sheez_ripped]

my input...

this was premeditated...she said she had been thinking of this and planning it for TWO years! also...look at what she told her husband in the phone call to let him know what she had done...

she told him it was time to come home that she had really did it this time....and he said "the kids" "which one"? ...and she said all of them....so it almost seemed like a control issue....this was her way of getting back at him....in a bizarre, sicko way...

plus...i had post partum depression after i had my child...but was due to breast feeding...my estrogen levels dropped to a menopausal level...but i was aware something was wrong and my ob/gyn put me on estrogen for a month...but within a few days i was normal...but i didn't consider harming my child...he's a wonderful 7 yr old!...if anything post partum depression causes you to neglect the child...because u don't feel like u have the energy to do anything...so slow to respond if they cry...i had my mom come down...which she did too...

i read her psychiatric evaluation which is posted on the net....she really seemed to me to have ordinary PP depression....some of the other stuff....i'm not so sure she didn't fabricate....cause it didn't fit....and yes...psychiatrists can be fooled....they only know what you TELL them....there's more here going on between her & hubby....this was her way of getting back at him and away from him via incarceration....cause he was crazy about those kids...obviously didn't care about her health to have more...she hit him where it would hurt the most....i say she is very cold & calculating....

 

[aurelius]

Who here who is in favor of the death penalty will admit that their support stems from a desire for vengence?

p.s. before someone starts with the, "you Europeans are SOCIALIST LIBERAL pussies blah blah," I don´t care one way or the other about the death penalty.

 

[chesty]

Of course it is revenge to a degree. I admit that. I would most definitely want revenge on anyone who would harm my friends or family. Make no mistake about it. The last thing on my mind would be to feel sorry for them because they are insane. In fact why should they be allowed to deprive me and or my loved ones from their life and liberty and yet they get to have all of those rights and privelages in spite of their deprevation of them from my loved ones. Fuck them, you take a life in cold blood you need to have yours extinguished as well. You are no longer useful to this planet and her population.

 

[the nature boy]

ok, for all those who are religious:

What would Jesus do?

seriously.

 

[chesty]

Who gives a shit? In a perfect world there is jesus. But we ain't in a perfect world we are in the real world.

 

[the nature boy]

just asking a question. I just wanted to see what all the religious folks on this thread would say. I'm trying to mix two topics, religion and the death penalty.

Don't mind me.

 

[chesty]

I know. Just keeping it semi lively. But I still personally don't think religion or faith has a place in her case.

 

[BronzedGoddess]

I'm a mother of a 2 year old and I also suffered from post-partum depression. Although I could never imagine killing my child, there was a point when my son was around 2 months old and my husband was gone for a month (in the field--Army). My son had colic and he would not sleep he cried constantly. We lived in some small hick town in kansas and I didn't know anyone. One day my son cried all day and ALL night. He did not fall asleep even for a minute. I tried everything, car rides, running the shower, vacuum and blowdryer. NOTHING worked and all i could was cry with him. This by far was the worst situation I have ever been in.

I'm a Texan and I do believe in the death penalty but not in this situation. IMO this woman HAS TO BE INSAINE to drown her children.I think she needs help, and prison time, but not death.

As far as the religion part. If she is saved (accepted Jesus Christ as her savior) and has asked for forgiveness, it does not matter if the state of Texas kills her because she will have eternal life. That what I believe and I don't need anyone flaming me on my religious beliefs!

 

[chesty]

She isn't insane, she is just sick. Take her soul and feed it to satan.

 

[Sebass67]

ARGH.....Everyone and their little circumstances...

Advocating her death and people like her to die will only save more innocent people in the future with the loss of much less which actually can be rehabilitated.

Nobody here is thinking for anyone else. If you are the family of the kids that died. As in aunts, uncles, on and on, what would you want to do?

Justice should not be made by the majority, it should be made by the minority, the people who were harmed the most by this. All you pro-post pardums should shut your pie holes.

I don't care if this is based on vengeance, we need to keep people like this off our planet. They are a waste of space. Read my previous posts...RyanH..You are advocating saving these people but if we save ten and 2 of them decide to kill again, you ain't saving shit.

 

[Jimsbbc]

There is no excuse big enough for what she did to those helpless children.

 

[Trance]

As a woman, I find it APPALLING that someone would stand up for this horrible monster by likening her sick mind to that of a woman with post-partum depression.

I have had post-partum depression.

Post-partum depression makes you cry because your jeans don't fit.

Post-partum depression makes you wonder whether you're cut out to be a parent.

Post-partum depression makes you cry during TV commercials.

Post-partum depression is hard and nasty and sometimes awful, but it does NOT make you slaughter your innocent children.

What a load of shit. Hell, yes, that woman deserves to die, and it's a crying shame that our tax dollars have helped to keep her alive thus far.

Any monster who could do such a thing is of no use to the human race whatsoever, except maybe as fertilizer.

All that human rights hippie bullshit may be legitimately neccesary and good, but not for this broad. Hell, I'm a disabled woman. I'm all for hippie human right, but this woman is a horrible monster who deserves everything she gets - and more.

I find it utterly abhorrent that anyone could jump to this woman's defense. Disgusting.

 

[Big Buck]

I can't wait till they put the lethal injection in that sick bitch...I will laugh my ass off the entire time!!! I hope they televise it!!! Fucking psycho bitch.

 

[bigmean]

I agree that Mrs. Yates has to be mental, and probably shouldn't get death.

But goddamn. Does RyanH ever post anything thing that is not meant to piss off the masses?

 

[Trance]

It really, really frosts my cookies that anyone could possibly take the hysterical-woman-insanity defense that this woman's evil lawyers are concocting and believe it.

Un-freaking-real.

I'm about to start my period - does that mean I can get up on the roof with a shotgun and start taking out the masses? Because I'm "stressed" and "PMSing"? I mean, hell, why not? It's a mental condition, right? I would deserve sympathy and support, right? Christ.

Makes me want to hurl.

 

[chesty]

Sick or not she knew what she was doing and knew that it was wrong. In my book that spells culpability and she should burn in a giant bread oven like the ones the nazis used in world war two. No lethal injection, no anesthesia, just good 'ol flame and torture. I just hope I am still alive to watch her fry. Better yet, lets drop her into a big vat of boiling oil while she is alive and make her a human battered french fry.

 

[Trance]

Sick or not she knew what she was doing and knew that it was wrong. In my book that spells culpability and she should burn in a giant bread oven like the ones the nazis used in world war two. No lethal injection, no anesthesia, just good 'ol flame and torture. I just hope I am still alive to watch her fry. Better yet, lets drop her into a big vat of boiling oil while she is alive and make her a human battered french fry.

I am a peace loving little pacifist from way back, and as much as I hate to admit it, I agree with you one hundred percent.

 

[VicTusDeuS]

I would have to agree with the Homo on this one. She had no evil motive for killing her children. It wasn't planned and it wasn’t done for any material benefit as many other killings are for.

Just the way she carried out the killings you could tell that she is psycho...The way she systematically drowned each one, the way she meticulously placed each child side by side after the killing. She called the police and calmly told the operator what she did. Just like a mother of an animal eats its own, there is no explanation as to why.

 

[chesty]

She did plan it, she was meticulous about it, methodical and said she was satan. Sounds like quite evil motives and knowledge to me. Fry her!

 

[gwl9dta4]

heh, heh. We see what happens when government bows from the stage, don't we? plane crashes, terrorists attacks, fleeced consumers, damaged environment, poverty, disease, etc.

Great idea gwl.

You know what? You are really good at this game, you are the master of shifting the focus. You know damn well what i was referring to in my statements, but instead of objectively analyzing the statement you throw out an extreme scenario, making yourself appear to be smart at my expence.

I am letting you know it is not appreciated. End of discussion.

 

[Warik]

this woman HAS TO BE INSAINE to drown her children.

ANY person has to be insane to take an innocent life. WHY DOES SOCIETY INSIST ON ACCEPTING INSANITY AS AN EXCUSE FOR MURDER?

The U.S. criminal court system should have one purpose and one purpose only - to determine whether someone is guilty or not. Mrs. Yates has already taken care of that problem for us - she has admitted her guilt. Why are we still jerking around with this case? Poop or get off the fucking toilet.

"I killed him... but I was insane at the time!" Oh, so you killed him? Baliff, please escort Mrs. Yates to the gas chamber. Next case.

A logical world - imagine that.

-Warik

 

[thebabydoc]

As a woman, I find it APPALLING that someone would stand up for this horrible monster by likening her sick mind to that of a woman with post-partum depression.

I have had post-partum depression.

Post-partum depression makes you cry because your jeans don't fit.

Post-partum depression makes you wonder whether you're cut out to be a parent.

Post-partum depression makes you cry during TV commercials.

Post-partum depression is hard and nasty and sometimes awful, but it does NOT make you slaughter your innocent children.

What a load of shit. Hell, yes, that woman deserves to die, and it's a crying shame that our tax dollars have helped to keep her alive thus far.

Any monster who could do such a thing is of no use to the human race whatsoever, except maybe as fertilizer.

All that human rights hippie bullshit may be legitimately neccesary and good, but not for this broad. Hell, I'm a disabled woman. I'm all for hippie human right, but this woman is a horrible monster who deserves everything she gets - and more.

I find it utterly abhorrent that anyone could jump to this woman's defense. Disgusting.

That's just great, your level of compassion and understanding is wonderful, especially from a woman who admits to suffering from a mental disorder. You should understand and recognize that mental disorders come in all shapes and sizes and are uncontrollable by the individual.
You had postpartum depression, NOT psychosis. You're right, postpartum depression does not make you kill your children. Psychosis can. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[KAYNE]

THE ASSAULT ON MRS YATES WILL BE OVER UPON HER DEATH. MENTALLY ILL MY ASS.......SHE HAD A STATE OF MIND (THATS WHAT A CRIME MUST CONSTITUE, A STATE OF MIND) TO CHASE HER KIDS ONE BY ONE AROUND THE HOUSE UNITL SHE CAUGHT EACH ONE INDIVIDUALLY AND DROWNED THEM.

IF IT WERE UP TO ME, I WOULD LET HER LOOSE IN A ROOM FULL OF KILLER BEES. BUT NOT TOO MANY THOUGH. JUST ENOUGH FOR HER TO GET STUNG FOR A FEW HOURS BEFORE SHE DIES.

KAYNE

 

[thebabydoc]

Didn't you just say you were pro death penalty? Do you think it's conceivable that the men who are fried in the chair do not wish to die? Isn't execution a concious decision to take life?

You should choose a side of the fence to stand on doc.

Are you kidding me? This is like a 1st grade argument you are making. "Fence" my ass. Can I make this any clearer for you? I am pro death penalty- that means I agree it is ok to put someone to death who has been found guilty of a crime for which crime the penalty is death.

Execution is a conscious decision made by our court system, a jury, a judge, etc... to take the life of a person who has been deemed deserving of it by virtue of (among other things) the conscious nature of his action(s) which resulted in his taking of another human life. The heinousness of the act is not in and of itself to merit the death penalty.

The "euthanasia" I was referring to was the killing of insane people which had been previously offered as the end-all solution to society's mental-health problems. In any event, the defense being advanced is that this woman's actions were not conscious or controllable due to her mental illness. I asked before and asked again, does anyone here believe that this woman truly understood what she was doing when she murdered her five children?

 

[Canes4Ever]

Using graphics to arouse emotion is an effective but cheap way of arousing emotion....You have ignored the plea of millions of women across our country.

So you took a vote of these women? You think you should speak for women ? I think you have gall Ryan to think you speak for anyone but yourself.

Sorry, I know I am new here but this is really ridiculous, the woman is indeed sick, and I'm not sure if she should die, but also to blame her husband and society in general for what she did by her own decisions is galling to me.

If she takes responsibility for her actions, a life-sentance without parole, and lifelong psychiatric care would be the appropriate sentance. There is no way she should ever walk freely among society ever again.

 

[Jimsbbc]

Like I said - There is no excuse big enough for what she did to those poor children.

 

[Trance]

That's just great, your level of compassion and understanding is wonderful, especially from a woman who admits to suffering from a mental disorder. You should understand and recognize that mental disorders come in all shapes and sizes and are uncontrollable by the individual.
You had postpartum depression, NOT psychosis. You're right, postpartum depression does not make you kill your children. Psychosis can. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Bullshit. There's big, big difference between suffering from an EATING disorder and murdering your innocent children.

Not to mention the fact that I do not blame society or my significant other for my eating disorder - I accept responsibility for it and I am doing something about it. I believe that things are as uncontrollable as you allow them to be. I have gone through a bad period, and I have worked my ass off to regain control.

If a person can't control themselves, then that person should at least have the God-given sense to commit their crazy ass somewhere until a professional can drug a little sanity into them.

And you're right, I don't have any compassion and understanding for this woman. Had she called someone up and said, "You know, I'm feeling a little squirrely and I think my children are in danger," then I MIGHT have, because then those children MIGHT be around today.

What she did was inexcusable.

If your wife went psycho and murdered your children, can you honestly say that you would be OK with that? You would forgive her due to her "illness"?

Maybe you would, but I would not.

I think it's a cop out.

I don't care what kind of mental disorder she has - the fact remains that she did something inhuman and incomprehensible - she deserves everything she gets and more.

It's sad that people can actually put the rights of this woman before the rights of her defenseless children.

Mental illness does not make it OK to commit a crime.

 

[Jimsbbc]

I asked before and asked again, does anyone here believe that this woman truly understood what she was doing when she murdered her five children?

Houston Chronicle- www.chron.com

This is today's top story:

"Yates knew her actions were illegal, he said, but she firmly believed that killing her children was the best thing to do."

"She faced a cruel dilemma," Resnick said. "If she did nothing, because the children were not being raised righteously, they would burn in hell. She could allow them to end up in hell burning for eternity or take their lives on Earth."


She knew exactly what she was doing. Now she is playing the "psycho" bit to convince the prosecurtors/jury to let her off.

 

[RyanH]

Houston Chronicle- www.chron.com

This is today's top story:

"Yates knew her actions were illegal, he said, but she firmly believed that killing her children was the best thing to do."

"She faced a cruel dilemma," Resnick said. "If she did nothing, because the children were not being raised righteously, they would burn in hell. She could allow them to end up in hell burning for eternity or take their lives on Earth."


She knew exactly what she was doing. Now she is playing the "psycho" bit to convince the prosecurtors/jury to let her off.

If anything this article demonstrates the impact that Mr. Yates religious fanaticism had on Mrs. Yates, and the role it played in her destruction.

 

[bunnymt]

If anything this article demonstrates the impact that Mr. Yates religious fanaticism had on Mrs. Yates, and the role it played in her destruction.

She is not the victim here. Those innocent children were the victims.

 

[Code]

Ya see, Ryan is a liberal. Which means the victim of any given crime is the person who commited the crime.

Society and the government are responsible for every person's mental health and welfare.

Now, from a realistic point of view. The victims are no longer living, they were killed. Justice needs to be upheld. She is going to spend much of her life in jail or awaiting lethal injection.

 

[p0ink]

If anything this article demonstrates the impact that Mr. Yates religious fanaticism had on Mrs. Yates, and the role it played in her destruction.

religious fanaticism? are you fucking joking? i think there is a difference between someone who attends church and someone like david koresh. you seem so very anti-religion, if you believe there is no god, you better be right for your own sake.

so which one is it now ryan? schizophrenia? post partum depression? or religion? you are very good at changing your story on everything.

 

[Jimsbbc]

What I am saying is she is using the oldest one in the book-

THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!