Is it pointless to keep running cycles? (lost all gains)

[technology_1]

Ok, this is were you might have went wrong, and are continuing to go wrong imo. Lets start from the top.

Training, The same training intensity you used pre cycle, and on cycle, your carried that over into post cycle. And even past post cycle, you still trained 'hard' 7 days a week. This might be were you went wrong. During pct your hormones are completely out of wack and the entire goal of a PCT is recovery. During post cycle you should ONLY be doing MAINTENANCE work, just enough needed to hold on to the muscle you have gained. Your bodies ability to recover from exercise will be dramatically reduced until your natty test really starts to 'kick back in'. It sounds like you slowly burnt off all your muscle due to overtraining in pct.

And I am no doctor, but your levels of FSH AND LH seem relatively low and while your test levels are 'in range' it doesnt mean some damage hasnt been done already. Your test could have been double precycle to what you have now.

It's a good thing you mentioned this because I was feeling burned out and have taken the last few days off the gym (planning to take the week off). What can I do to raise LH and FSH again?

 

[Superduperbroncos]

This was your first cycle, and no one has a perfect first cycle. There is always something you will regret or wish you did differently. So dont give up just yet. There are much better drugs out there than hdrol and there are still gains to be made [what you have lost]. You seem to have the right idea, starting off with clen and cutting down that extra bf is a great start to see how much lean mass you actually lost, and what it will take to gain it back. Short oral cycles, your hdrol cycle, are the hardest cycles to try to 'keep your gains'.

This is what I would recommend.

Weeks 1-6 Cutting
Clen Weeks 1-2 ON, 3-4 OFF, 4-6 ON
GW-501615 20mg ED 1 hour Preworkout
S-4 Weeks 2-6 75mg split 3x daily. 25mg in the morning, 25mg mid day, 25mg preworkout. Weekends OFF

For the first 6 weeks, this should be done in a deficit, [obviously] and your diet will be more important than ever at this point as it will lay the path for your long term results[preserving what muscle you have left is key]. But dieting for 6 weeks using this protocol you should have no problems getting lean again in this time frame [maybe even sooner]. After you reach an optimal level of bodyfat we will be in a better position to gain muscle while staying lean. I would try this

Recomp Weeks 7-15
Ostarine 25mg ED taken in the morning
Creatine ED, you will see much greater benefits from creatine while stacked with osta.
GW-501615 20mg ED 1 hour Preworkout

For your recomp you will need to be in a caloric surplus in order to actually build some muscle, but you need to be hitting the cardio hard as well to prevent fat gain. 8 weeks isnt a very long time to see significant results from a recomp, so you have two options from here. You can continue to run the osta for as long as you see good results, but eventually you will stop and need to pct. Sarms are very easy to recover from and dont suppress you as nearly as hard as any AAS. While your nolva pct was definitely lacking for your hdrol cycle, running that exact same pct for this cycle would be more than enough to not only fully recover but actually KEEP your muscle, as the gains from sarms are much easier to keep than a pro-steriod or hormone.

OR

You can just make this a bridge into your next cycle, I wouldnt recommend anymore orals only though just due to your past experience with them was not optimal. If you do plan to run another AAS or prohormone make sure you have your entire cycle, pct, and next bridge preplanned before you start the cycle.

The practice of 'cycling' is very similar to blast and cruise, in the since that you are never really 'off' its just a never ending cycle of hormones and drugs followed by a pct, which is really just a hormonal 'boost' that is usually followed by a crash [no matter how small or great] which is why you need a bridge that doesnt suppress your natural testosterone but help you maintain your strength until your body has reached a level of homeostasis and you can maintain your strength naturally, or jump on another cycle afterwords.

 

[technology_1]

Ok, this is were you might have went wrong, and are continuing to go wrong imo. Lets start from the top.

Training, The same training intensity you used pre cycle, and on cycle, your carried that over into post cycle. And even past post cycle, you still trained 'hard' 7 days a week. This might be were you went wrong. During pct your hormones are completely out of wack and the entire goal of a PCT is recovery. During post cycle you should ONLY be doing MAINTENANCE work, just enough needed to hold on to the muscle you have gained. Your bodies ability to recover from exercise will be dramatically reduced until your natty test really starts to 'kick back in'. It sounds like you slowly burnt off all your muscle due to training way too much/hard. Even as a natural lifter this is possible. Regardless your situation is just as interesting as it is strange.

I agree. I had all the confidence in the world that I'd maintained my gains. I mean I can understand that gains from any form of hormone can take months to come off, but what I don't get is why I crashed as well after I felt recovered months prior and had run my PCT... A delayed crash, perhaps.. It also adds another layer to the anatomy of a crash that I wasn't aware of, i.e. Regardless of when you lose your gains, it can/wil come with the known sides related to crashing like the ridiculous lethargy, loss of sex drive, etc.

At any rate that was probably the closest i will come to adding maintainable muscle from AAS.

Sorry super duper I am on the mobile app which is a bit difficult to work with, I just read your second cycle recommendation, I'll give it a proper read when I get home from work

 

[technology_1]

This was your first cycle, and no one has a perfect first cycle. There is always something you will regret or wish you did differently. So dont give up just yet. There are much better drugs out there than hdrol and there are still gains to be made [what you have lost]. You seem to have the right idea, starting off with clen and cutting down that extra bf is a great start to see how much lean mass you actually lost, and what it will take to gain it back. Short oral cycles, your hdrol cycle, are the hardest cycles to try to 'keep your gains'.

This is what I would recommend.

Weeks 1-6 Cutting
Clen Weeks 1-2 ON, 3-4 OFF, 4-6 ON
GW-501615 20mg ED 1 hour Preworkout
S-4 Weeks 2-6 75mg split 3x daily. 25mg in the morning, 25mg mid day, 25mg preworkout. Weekends OFF

For the first 6 weeks, this should be done in a deficit, [obviously] and your diet will be more important than ever at this point as it will lay the path for your long term results[preserving what muscle you have left is key]. But dieting for 6 weeks using this protocol you should have no problems getting lean again in this time frame [maybe even sooner]. After you reach an optimal level of bodyfat we will be in a better position to gain muscle while staying lean. I would try this

Recomp Weeks 7-15
Ostarine 25mg ED taken in the morning
Creatine ED, you will see much greater benefits from creatine while stacked with osta.
GW-501615 20mg ED 1 hour Preworkout

For your recomp you will need to be in a caloric surplus in order to actually build some muscle, but you need to be hitting the cardio hard as well to prevent fat gain. 8 weeks isnt a very long time to see significant results from a recomp, so you have two options from here. You can continue to run the osta for as long as you see good results, but eventually you will stop and need to pct. Sarms are very easy to recover from and dont suppress you as nearly as hard as any AAS. While your nolva pct was definitely lacking for your hdrol cycle, running that exact same pct for this cycle would be more than enough to not only fully recover but actually KEEP your muscle, as the gains from sarms are much easier to keep than a pro-steriod or hormone.

OR

You can just make this a bridge into your next cycle, I wouldnt recommend anymore orals only though just due to your past experience with them was not optimal. If you do plan to run another AAS or prohormone make sure you have your entire cycle, pct, and next bridge preplanned before you start the cycle.

The practice of 'cycling' is very similar to blast and cruise, in the since that you are never really 'off' its just a never ending cycle of hormones and drugs followed by a pct, which is really just a hormonal 'boost' that is usually followed by a crash [no matter how small or great] which is why you need a bridge that doesnt suppress your natural testosterone but help you maintain your strength until your body has reached a level of homeostasis and you can maintain your strength naturally, or jump on another cycle afterwords.

Great post dude, thanks. This is the sort of detail noobs should be presented, but perhaps in a more digestible/understandable format I think.. Especially those who are looking to push their genetic potential in the safest, "healthiest" and most sustainable fashion possible...