Is high volume ok?

[einstein1]

I make no secret of being a HIT advocate. I believe there are 4 fallicies in the theory of high volume.
1. High volume theory lacks specificity. It can not tell you at what exact point growth has been stimulated. Take the typicial 4-5 exercises per body part of 5+ sets of 10 reps. If you don't make progress, should you add or subtract a set? From which exercise? Add or subtract weight? From which exercise?
2. Body parts are exposed to more training due to overlap. When you work your chest, you are also using your tri's and shoulders. And working the back works your bi's. Again, when you don't see progress with your tri's (lets say), do you add or subtract a set from your tri routine or chest routine.
3. High volume does not give enough time for the body to compensate for growth. How can it? When you work out 5-6 days per week and working some body parts more than once, where is the opprutuniy to grow? Your body does not grow during the workout, it starts to compensate for growth while resting. Where is the rest time if you're working out 5+ times per week? As Arthur Jones pointed out, the more sets you do requires more of your body's resources. The more of the resources that are used up, the longer it will take to replenish them, and thats not even taking into account the time needed for growth.
4. I think the term high volume should be renamed over volume. The key to stimulating growth is maximal muscle contraction. You (meaning everbody) can acheive a maximal contraction in as little as 2 sets. Why would you need 15 sets to do what could take 2. When you take an exercise to positive failure, you have acheived a maximal contraction

 

[Robboe]

High volume works for one in a million.

Do you feel lucky?

 

[goahead]

I am not a HIT jedi, but I must admit that cuttin down high volume really helped a lot (we are talkin about 24 sets bodypart here)

really HIT like 6-8 sets seems too low for me, but medium sets 12-16 works out ok (for my case)

I used to be a high volume guy (it works great the first months you work out) to overload the muscles eventhough you have not attained serious strenth. When I got stronger, i needed more recovery, hence cutting down sets (I was pretty stubborn to I was able to admit it, maybe i got hooked to all the lactic acid buildup i was generating )

I would suggest all people to give the hit approach at least 3 months a try. If it doesnt render good results you can always add a few sets until you are in the happy zone...

 

[Tuna Guy]

High volume is O.K if you are learning a new exercise.

 

[MonStar1023]

High-Volume

I have been working out for around 5 years now and somehow high-volume has ALWAYS worked for me like now matter what. I mean not real high but at least 6-9 sets per bodypart and sometimse up to 20-25 sets per bodypart. I have made incredible gains doing a each bodypart one time per week, hammering it from every possible angle, sticking to all of the basic freeweight exercises.

I dont know if I am that one-in-a-million because all of my friends do this and make absolultely NO GAINS at all. They ask for my chest, back, biceps whatever routine and I cant really tell them because I almost know for a fact it wont work for them. I dont know I would guess that a low/moderate routine would work for most people though wouldnt it?

 

[einstein1]

"I have been working out for around 5 years now and somehow high-volume has ALWAYS worked for me like now matter what. "

you must be some sort of genetic freak. I would be interested to know if you have made progress a workout to workout basis or if you have ever hit a plateau. With a proper HIT routine, you will see an increase in either weight used or reps with each exercise of every workout and never hit a plateau (yeah I know, some people think a plateau is inevitable).

 

[MonStar1023]

Whatsup Einstein1? I dont know I dont think Im too much of a genetic freak.. I mean I might be. I know that I have tried HIT a few times and I couldnt stand it at all... I mean I never got a pump in the gym, I was only in the gym for 20 minutes, I had to do a lot of cardio to keep my bodyfat down, I just didnt care for it. It really didnt do anything for me at all.

I understand that HIT seems to work for most people especially hard-gainers. I dont know I guess your right though I didnt make progress from workout to workout.. maybe an extra rep or something as gradual as that. Yeah I have definitely hit plateaus holy shit... I mean a lot of times I am just working out for the pump and the maintenance of the muscles I already have. Lately I have been training with Leo Costa's Serious Growth routine and I am hoping for some good gains of it. Have you read anything about it?

 

[Scott Steinner]

Sorry MonStar1023,
feel free to correct me but if you can do 25 sets / body part. I think you don't train like an animal or you're on juice. Do you rep until the moment you're feel like you're head is going to explode?

 

[einstein1]

Monstar1023: About training for a pump, here is some info I posted on another thread about training for soreness:"Mentzer would ask,"If you don't get sore after a workout, what are you going to do next time, bend over backwards so you are sore?" When you say soreness is a good enough guide, you are really talking about your feelings (if you feel sore, then you had a good workout). Bodybuilding is a science, and like every other realm of science, feelings are not proof of a theory. For example (again from Mentzer), take NASA. It's 2 seconds away from blast off when "Fred" says,"I've always pushed the blue button before liftoff, but something doesn't feel right, I'm going to push the yellow button this time." A key to science is precision, feeling sore is not a precise sign of a good workout."

The pump is the same way. Having a pump in no way indicates that growth occured. The pump a temporary feeling, when the rushing of blood and glycogen subsides, the pump goes away.
If you have tried HIT and wasn't impressed, my guess is you didn't follow the theory through 100%. Maybe you didn't go to + failure, worked out to often, or did to many sets.
About Costa, yes I did try the original BBB. I even paid my $300 consulting fee for him to evaluate my progress (that was back in '95). What a rip off! I stopped following him and his products because he believes in high volume (at least he did in the original BBB, I don't know if he changed). My original post tells why the high volume is an irrational approach to bodybuilding. High volume literally breaks every physiological rule for muscle growth. You'll have to let me know how you do on his new program. By the way, the first consulting letter he sent to me said that since I was a beginer, I should start by doing only the basic exercises. He recommended for me to only a couple of sets of 10. He more or less told me to do a HIT routine which was contridictory to his BBB book. I wish I kept the letter, because he was basically telling me that the BBB was to much for me. After that, I started reading about Mentzer, and I concluded he was the right road to follow. If Costa's program doesn't deliver for you, and you want to seriously try HIT again, email me. I give my email address as my location in the top left corner by my name.

 

[Robboe]

Monstar - you obviously don't train with enough intensity, or have a near perfect diet.

Either that or you're a genetic freak. Doubtful.