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cobracock1979
Member
Any comments? i been taking this stuff a while.
Is Flax Oil estrogenic?
- Thread starter cobracock1979
- Start date
ryno9000
New member
The short answer is yes. So is soy protein. I'm not a scientist, but I personally do not think that taking them is going to have any SIGNIFICANT estro effects on a person. It may not be OPTIMAL, but I don't think it is really INHIBITORY or HARMFUL. Sorry about the CAPS but that is how I EMPHASIZE my SPEECH.
cobracock1979
Member
ryno9000 said:
LOL, Thanks I REALLY appreciate the advice!!!
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
ryno9000 said:
The research is out about some of these natural 'phyto' sources of oestrogen, however, a lot say that it is not detrimental.
I would be more concerned about industrial and domestic chemical pollution, or xenobiotics as most of these are know to be oestrogenic and it is one of the theories as to why sperm counts are dropping.
That would mean that eating organic may be beneficial (industrial pesticides would also fall under the 'xenobiotics' category.
Also, building muscle is not as simple as testosterone = good, oestrogen = bad.
I am pretty sure there are a few threads on this site about how anti-oestrogens can actually minimise gains while on a cycle.
I don't think that even if there is a small amount of oestrogen in these substances, it will make that much difference.
Tatyana said:
Great post, there was an article on T-nation a few years ago with at least 50 sources describing xenoestrogens in detail. It seemed to focus on PCBs and obviously a couple other things I dont even remember.
Mavafanculo
New member
When I was trying to decide whether to take flaxseed oil for the health benefits, I found lots of conflicting info on whether or not it was "estrogenic"
1) it contains phytoestrogens
2) they seems to act as an agonist at some sites (triggers the body reation that estrogen would) and as an antagonist at other sites (blocks the receptor with no action caused and prevents actual estrogen from binding).
3) the amount of remaning phytoestrogens remaining when processed from flax seed to flaxseed oil varies
so I threw up my hands on the question. and as tat said estrogen doesnt just automatically equal bad.
BUT......
here's where I disqualified it as a supplement for bodybuilders:
the lignans in flax/flaxseed oil raise shbg and lower free testosterone. game over.
-
1) it contains phytoestrogens
2) they seems to act as an agonist at some sites (triggers the body reation that estrogen would) and as an antagonist at other sites (blocks the receptor with no action caused and prevents actual estrogen from binding).
3) the amount of remaning phytoestrogens remaining when processed from flax seed to flaxseed oil varies
so I threw up my hands on the question. and as tat said estrogen doesnt just automatically equal bad.
BUT......
here's where I disqualified it as a supplement for bodybuilders:
the lignans in flax/flaxseed oil raise shbg and lower free testosterone. game over.
-
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
Mavafanculo said:
Perfect summary of the whole phyto-oestrogen thing Mava.
I have been doing some reading on lignans, and interestingly, wheat is jam packed full of them.
I had been eating some with my current comp diet, shredded wheat in the mornin, but after I found this (and I think it is making me hold water), I am back on the oats/rye/spelt/barley flakes in the morning, and I do think it works better for me.
A
ALIN
Guest
interesting reading.
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
Before we get into the whole 'lignans are BAD' route (I think the division of foods or components of foods as good or bad is silly, they all just have a different effect, and it does depend on what your goals are, if you are off-season/bulking on on-season/cutting etc)
lignans
A class of dibenzylbutane derivatives which occurs in higher plants and in fluids (bile, serum, urine, etc.) in man and other animals. These compounds, which have a potential anti-cancer role, can be synthesised in vitro by human faecal flora.
Wiki has a nice little write up on lignans as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignan
The lignans are a group of chemical compounds found in plants, particularly in flax seed. Lignans are one of the major classes of phytoestrogens, which are estrogen-like chemicals and also act as antioxidants. The other classes of phytoestrogens are the isoflavones, and coumestans.
lignans
A class of dibenzylbutane derivatives which occurs in higher plants and in fluids (bile, serum, urine, etc.) in man and other animals. These compounds, which have a potential anti-cancer role, can be synthesised in vitro by human faecal flora.
Wiki has a nice little write up on lignans as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lignan
The lignans are a group of chemical compounds found in plants, particularly in flax seed. Lignans are one of the major classes of phytoestrogens, which are estrogen-like chemicals and also act as antioxidants. The other classes of phytoestrogens are the isoflavones, and coumestans.
Mavafanculo
New member
Tatyana said:
I would be very unhappy if I coundnt eat my frosted mini wheats lol
flax and sesame are the foods that contain the (much) higher concentration of lignans (like 50x more than other foods like wheat if I recall) - for instance I know that after a few teasponns of flaxseed oil for a few days, libido wanes for me. same with some of the sesamin based weight loss products. The same isnt true for my beloved frosted shredded wheat
you're probably still better off with the oats/barley (dont know enuf about the others) but probably not because of the shbg issue - more fiber, less/no glutens, more complex
Mavafanculo
New member
p.s. if using flaxseed oil for the health benefits, Bodybuilders should substitute Fish Oil instead imo
Tatyana
Elite Mentor
Mavafanculo said:I would be very unhappy if I coundnt eat my frosted mini wheats lol
flax and sesame are the foods that contain the (much) higher concentration of lignans (like 50x more than other foods like wheat if I recall) - for instance I know that after a few teasponns of flaxseed oil for a few days, libido wanes for me. same with some of the sesamin based weight loss products. The same isnt true for my beloved frosted shredded wheat
you're probably still better off with the oats/barley (dont know enuf about the others) but probably not because of the shbg issue - more fiber, less/no glutens, more complex
Check the wiki link I posted just before this.
They give a breakdown of foods with lignans.
I also think their effect is altered with fiber, cause brocolli is high in lignans too.
This is why I think looking at just one component of food often doesn't work, there is so much we just don't know about how food affects us, and also, there is the whole biochemical individuality thing.
I diet with baby new potatoes and a lot of other root veggies, like parsnips, swede, all really quite starchy and full of 'sugar'. Lentils are another one of my fav carb sources, also high in lignans.
Some people are shocked when they hear that, but it really works well as one of my main carb sources
I have a book I have to read on glyconutrients, cause it is looking like there are essential 'glycos' or carbs that we need in our diet, and the current 'carbs are bad' trend is going to have a whole new set of health problems arise IMHO.
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