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Nice to hear bro! I'm hearing more and more stories like these, and its always great hearing about more and more people changing their lives with IF. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Intermittent Fasting discussion thread!!
- Thread starter RickRock13
- Start date
Nice to hear bro! I'm hearing more and more stories like these, and its always great hearing about more and more people changing their lives with IF. Thanks for sharing your experience!
There are several take homes here for me, which I'll followup with a couple questions:
-this lifestyle is allowing me to accomplish my goals without forcing others to adapt to me
-my GF does ALL the cooking and depending on the meal I simply add more carbs or more protein. Easy.
-by doing nothing other than watching your feeding window and eating clean this plan works for me
-cardio is not a requirement, at my level anyway
QUESTIONS
-I've read this entire thread, most of it twice. I haven't seen anyone else, like me, who works out at 7pm. Given that one of the things I love about IF is how it also works socially I really value eating lunch with Clients or my GF at 12:30 each day. Thus, that's when my fast gets broken. Then I'm home for dinner with my GF each day, which is my pre-workout meal. Rick, can you recommend a caloric percentage breakdown for these three meals for me? 20/20/60? Is 8:30pm/9:00pm too late to have a big meal like that? I'm typically ready to sleep by 11pm and up by 7am. Morning or afternoon workouts are out of the question for me. Experience tells me I won't get there.
-I'm 36yo 6'2" 225lb 19%bf. My lean body mass is about 182lbs and I'm carrying about 43lbs of fat. Due to insecurity about being too small (used to be 275 and 25%), and a knee injury that motivates me to keep weight off, I'm really aiming to be 225 and 10%. Thats gaining 20lbs of muscle while losing 20lbs of fat. Using the +20%/-20% recomp model, assuming only protein, caffeine, and creatine as supplements, my question is how long do you think it would take me to accomplish that goal? Is it unrealistic? Any special pointers?
-finally, I've had success not paying too much attention to exact calories, macros, etc is that normal? At what point should I get more serious? For example, I haven't logged a meal in FitnessPal for days. I don't track my workouts closely, other than that I know I use compound lifts with 6-10 reps on 10-12 sets for upper legs for example. Push/Pull/Legs
Thanks so much Rick. This has been the single most impactful thread I've ever read.
-this lifestyle is allowing me to accomplish my goals without forcing others to adapt to me
-my GF does ALL the cooking and depending on the meal I simply add more carbs or more protein. Easy.
-by doing nothing other than watching your feeding window and eating clean this plan works for me
-cardio is not a requirement, at my level anyway
QUESTIONS
-I've read this entire thread, most of it twice. I haven't seen anyone else, like me, who works out at 7pm. Given that one of the things I love about IF is how it also works socially I really value eating lunch with Clients or my GF at 12:30 each day. Thus, that's when my fast gets broken. Then I'm home for dinner with my GF each day, which is my pre-workout meal. Rick, can you recommend a caloric percentage breakdown for these three meals for me? 20/20/60? Is 8:30pm/9:00pm too late to have a big meal like that? I'm typically ready to sleep by 11pm and up by 7am. Morning or afternoon workouts are out of the question for me. Experience tells me I won't get there.
-I'm 36yo 6'2" 225lb 19%bf. My lean body mass is about 182lbs and I'm carrying about 43lbs of fat. Due to insecurity about being too small (used to be 275 and 25%), and a knee injury that motivates me to keep weight off, I'm really aiming to be 225 and 10%. Thats gaining 20lbs of muscle while losing 20lbs of fat. Using the +20%/-20% recomp model, assuming only protein, caffeine, and creatine as supplements, my question is how long do you think it would take me to accomplish that goal? Is it unrealistic? Any special pointers?
-finally, I've had success not paying too much attention to exact calories, macros, etc is that normal? At what point should I get more serious? For example, I haven't logged a meal in FitnessPal for days. I don't track my workouts closely, other than that I know I use compound lifts with 6-10 reps on 10-12 sets for upper legs for example. Push/Pull/Legs
Thanks so much Rick. This has been the single most impactful thread I've ever read.
Its nice to hear that you are enjoying this lifestyle so much, and that is helping you reach your goals
In response to your questions...
1) Having a feeding window of 12:30-8:30 each day would be completely fine in coordination with working out at 7 PM. Your last meal of the day post workout would obviously need to be the biggest at ideally 50-60% of total cals for the day. There is no problem at all having a large meal this late in the day. The rest of the day you can split cals however you want as long as it fits your macro/cal targets. One of the smaller meal of some preworkout carbs and protein is probably a good idea too.
2) as for using the 20%/20% recomp protocol, how long it will take is dependant on too many things to give an accurate figure. Genetics, training, diet recovery, etc will affect it. One thing I can tell you is that recomp is a VERY slow process. It is the holy grail of bodybuilding...building muscle and burning fat at the same time, but it has to be spot on perfect for it to work in terms of diet and training. Realistically when training natural, a couple lbs of muscle gained with a couple lbs of fat loss would be possible over the course of a couple months. That usually is not enough for most, but if you want both its reality.
For me, I find a slight caloric shift one way or the other towards one of the goals to be better towards making progress. If your primary goal is burning fat, concentrate on that, if its muscle then work more towards that.
3) Tracking cals are not necessary as long as you know your limits to stay within your ranges. I haven't tracked a single calorie in over a year myself because I did it long enough to know in my head where I'm at each day without tracking it. I may be off 100-200 cals each day, bit it doesnt matter in the grand scope of things.
Tracking workouts I feel is important though for progression. You should always be trying to get better and beat the log book.
Chad Waterbury has his IF protocol that I follow:
Training Day
930am 20g Whey
330pm 20g Whey
645pm PreWorkout 54g Dextrose/Maltodextrin, 25g Whey, 3g DAA, 5g Creatine
7pm Train
745pm Post 72g Dex/Malt, 32g Whey
830-10pm Feast on Carbs, Meat
Non-Train
930am 20g Whey
1230 4-6oz Olive Oil, Meat
530pm 20g Whey
830-10pm Feast on Carbs, Meat
Trying to follow it but i keep eating candy and sweets..lol
Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using EliteFitness
Training Day
930am 20g Whey
330pm 20g Whey
645pm PreWorkout 54g Dextrose/Maltodextrin, 25g Whey, 3g DAA, 5g Creatine
7pm Train
745pm Post 72g Dex/Malt, 32g Whey
830-10pm Feast on Carbs, Meat
Non-Train
930am 20g Whey
1230 4-6oz Olive Oil, Meat
530pm 20g Whey
830-10pm Feast on Carbs, Meat
Trying to follow it but i keep eating candy and sweets..lol
Sent from my ZTE-Z990G using EliteFitness
That is an interesting variation that I haven't seen before. It technically has a longer feeding window because the whey will break the fast. It looks like it is set up to be pretty much a 12 hour fast each day. Do you have any links to info on this protocol?
This shit works, and i haven't even done it on purpose yet lol. Even a 10 hour work day with no food will bring me down a pound or two. I will be doing my first IF cutting period in a couple months and looking forward to it! Thanks rick for bringing this to light... at least for me.
This shit works, and i haven't even done it on purpose yet lol. Even a 10 hour work day with no food will bring me down a pound or two. I will be doing my first IF cutting period in a couple months and looking forward to it! Thanks rick for bringing this to light... at least for me.
Its my lifestyle, so its my pleasure bro. I'm sure you will enjoy cutting on IF much more than any diet.
Hey Rick,
Just read the whole thread. Thank you so much for all the help you've given everyone. Truly inspiring.
I've never had a lot of luck with diets/lifting. When I first started lifting a few years back I was told to bulk up from 6'2, 185lbs (where I was skinnyfat) and I ended up getting my big 3 numbers up quite a bit, gaining strength, but my bodyfat% didn't drop at all so I ended up at 220lbs and my body looked worse than before. My only goal is to have low bodyfat, I don't really care about muscle size, I just don't want to be flabby anymore. When I stopped lifting and went back to normal my weight eventually trickled back down to 185.
Now I discovered IF and I did a test-week last week, where I ate low carb all week in my 8 hour window. My scale said 174-175 for the past few days, and it hasn't read that low in YEARS! I know it's probably mostly water weight but it still feels nice to see. Once I start seeing changes in my body, that's when I'll be a 100% believer, but I'm working on it! I feel like I'm genetically predisposed to carry fat in an awful way despite looking lean with clothes on, so if this helps me fix this, AWESOME!
Today begins my first true week. Going to the gym in an hour and a half and working out. Just chugged some BCAAs not too long ago. My maintenance is 2500 for 175 lbs, 2250 for wrkout days, 1850 for rest days.
My only real questions involve food:
What is your opinion on sodium intake? If I'm ingesting a lot of water, will that be okay? A lot of the great foods for hitting macros/calorie goals are sodium dense. Example:
In-N-Out Burger Protein Style 3x3
710 cals, 53g fat, 11g carb, 58g protein
That's fantastic for a low-carb rest day, but there's like 1000+mg of sodium in it. What are your thoughts?
A helpful thing for this thread, also, might be people sharing low carb/high prot/high fat and low fat/high prot/high carb easy meals they utilize in their own diets.
Thanks again Rick!
Just read the whole thread. Thank you so much for all the help you've given everyone. Truly inspiring.
I've never had a lot of luck with diets/lifting. When I first started lifting a few years back I was told to bulk up from 6'2, 185lbs (where I was skinnyfat) and I ended up getting my big 3 numbers up quite a bit, gaining strength, but my bodyfat% didn't drop at all so I ended up at 220lbs and my body looked worse than before. My only goal is to have low bodyfat, I don't really care about muscle size, I just don't want to be flabby anymore. When I stopped lifting and went back to normal my weight eventually trickled back down to 185.
Now I discovered IF and I did a test-week last week, where I ate low carb all week in my 8 hour window. My scale said 174-175 for the past few days, and it hasn't read that low in YEARS! I know it's probably mostly water weight but it still feels nice to see. Once I start seeing changes in my body, that's when I'll be a 100% believer, but I'm working on it! I feel like I'm genetically predisposed to carry fat in an awful way despite looking lean with clothes on, so if this helps me fix this, AWESOME!
Today begins my first true week. Going to the gym in an hour and a half and working out. Just chugged some BCAAs not too long ago. My maintenance is 2500 for 175 lbs, 2250 for wrkout days, 1850 for rest days.
My only real questions involve food:
What is your opinion on sodium intake? If I'm ingesting a lot of water, will that be okay? A lot of the great foods for hitting macros/calorie goals are sodium dense. Example:
In-N-Out Burger Protein Style 3x3
710 cals, 53g fat, 11g carb, 58g protein
That's fantastic for a low-carb rest day, but there's like 1000+mg of sodium in it. What are your thoughts?
A helpful thing for this thread, also, might be people sharing low carb/high prot/high fat and low fat/high prot/high carb easy meals they utilize in their own diets.
Thanks again Rick!
For the food example you gave, the sodium is high no doubt, but the fat content is pretty high as well. While its high in protein its not exactly the healthiest or best food choice...especially for a rest day. Those are days you should be eating pretty clean, consisting of things like lean meats. A little fat is ok, but you can't expect to get ripped and cut up eating fast food if it is done very often. If you want to eat those things, that's fine but its better to have them on workout days.
As for the sodium issue, as long as your sodium is kept moderate it shouldn't be an issue. Try to keep from adding salt to anything and don't have too many sodium rich foods in a given day. Sodium has less impact on changing body composition, with more impact on overall health concerns.
I would definitely like to see examples some people have for their food choices as well....especially the high protein/low carb meals
I really need a workout that works in conjunction with IF. I was going to go with the "simple beginners routine" (google this: "A Simple beginner's Routine
You will do 3 work outs per week on non consecutive days. The first work out is your heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less weight." and you'll find links to it all over) but then I had a free personal training session at my gym and he told me that jumping right into the power/strength movements without building a foundation that I don't have is going to cause me problems down the road and that should build a foundation for 4-6 weeks with bodyweight/dumbbells/kettle bells/aerobic type supersets and stuff.
Will that kind of workout justify the high carb workout days for IF? If so, can anyone PLEASE recommend me a program to follow while I get back into the groove of lifting? You'd be my savior.
You will do 3 work outs per week on non consecutive days. The first work out is your heavy work out. The second work out is your medium work out, use 10% less weight for your work sets. The final work out for the week is your lite work out, use 20% less weight." and you'll find links to it all over) but then I had a free personal training session at my gym and he told me that jumping right into the power/strength movements without building a foundation that I don't have is going to cause me problems down the road and that should build a foundation for 4-6 weeks with bodyweight/dumbbells/kettle bells/aerobic type supersets and stuff.
Will that kind of workout justify the high carb workout days for IF? If so, can anyone PLEASE recommend me a program to follow while I get back into the groove of lifting? You'd be my savior.
Just start out with something simple but effective like push, pull, legs routine which works great for a 3x per week schedule (M, W, F) or something similar. I wouldn't listen to your buddy. You can't build a foundation with that foo-foo crap
I am glad to have found this forum and this thread in particular.
I did IF for 3 months couple weeks ago before stopping it. When I was fasting, I experiment many blood pressure crashes. I even black out once for a split second. I have no blood pressure history, neither health problems.
Did anybody else got this problem too during the fast? As soon as I break the fast, these crashes go away.
I stop it because I thought IF wasn't for me but except for this, I loved IF!
I did IF for 3 months couple weeks ago before stopping it. When I was fasting, I experiment many blood pressure crashes. I even black out once for a split second. I have no blood pressure history, neither health problems.
Did anybody else got this problem too during the fast? As soon as I break the fast, these crashes go away.
I stop it because I thought IF wasn't for me but except for this, I loved IF!
I'm trying to figure out my calories for lift/cardio/rest days. My RMR is 2200. In the example of a lifting day, would you take 2200, add 300 cals I would burn during the workout, then throw 10% on top of that? Then also, on cardio days, would you take 2200 cals, add 600 cals that I would burn, then take 30% from that?
Taking that a step further, my goal is to lose 2 lbs/wk. My RMR is 15,400 cals per week (2200x7). Based on being moderately active my Total Basal Metabolic Rate is around 21,000 per week (3000x7). Knowing I need to be in a deficit of 7000 calories per week to lose my desired 2 lbs, how would you suggest I distribute that caloric deficit over my 2 lifting days, 2 cardio days, and 2 resting days?
I'm basically trying to create a spreadsheet to help me plan for this. Once I've got it I'll gladly send it to a plat member to post.
I know it sounds like very specific information to me Rick, but I'm not looking for a one off eating plan here. Perhaps you could answer my question in a general way so it would benefit everyone here. I haven't seen this question posted like this in this thread.
Thanks again for an awesome thread Rick.
Taking that a step further, my goal is to lose 2 lbs/wk. My RMR is 15,400 cals per week (2200x7). Based on being moderately active my Total Basal Metabolic Rate is around 21,000 per week (3000x7). Knowing I need to be in a deficit of 7000 calories per week to lose my desired 2 lbs, how would you suggest I distribute that caloric deficit over my 2 lifting days, 2 cardio days, and 2 resting days?
I'm basically trying to create a spreadsheet to help me plan for this. Once I've got it I'll gladly send it to a plat member to post.
I know it sounds like very specific information to me Rick, but I'm not looking for a one off eating plan here. Perhaps you could answer my question in a general way so it would benefit everyone here. I haven't seen this question posted like this in this thread.
Thanks again for an awesome thread Rick.
Is it possible to put on lean mass while doing IF? Sorry I that's been covered. Didn't wanna read through the whole thread just yet. Thanks!
It sounds to me like you might be having some blood glucose issues or something. Do you have a history of low blood sugar, or have you been tested for it? If so, I would stay away from IF. Obviously going too long without food is not a good idea for diabetics
Your defecit should be done on your cardio days and rest days only where your workout days should be at least at maintenance, if not a little higher for muscle sparing and building purposes.
So....that gives you 4 days to meet your goal. If you burn 750 cals with cardio and have another 1000 in caloric defecit for the day you will be at 1750 for the day. Do that each if 4 days and you have your 7k defecit (2 lbs) per week.
Though my recommendation would be less weight per week unless you are at a very high bodyfat. 1-1.5 lbs per week works very well IMO with ZERO muscle loss
Absolutely! This diet is setup for recomp from the start to add lean mass and burn fat at the same time, but it can also be shifted one way or the other for more fat loss or more muscle gain with adding or subtracting a couple hundred cals each day
chewyxrage
New member
I thought I posted this a few days ago but looking back, I see I must not have hit submit or something.
Very interesting article by Dr. John Berardi....says it is an "ebook" but whatever. He tried out all the different IF methods out there, did blood work, and documents his results, experiences, etc. It is good stuff. He also has some simple meal examples in there for diet newbies. He ended up liking Berkhan's lean gains IF the best, go figure, it is the best He ain't some pussy, either. Posted pics at the end, dude is jacked.
Intermittent Fasting | John Berardi Intermittent Fasting Free E-book
My personal experience with IF has been awesome. Dropped around 20 (225 down to 205) pounds and have lost zero strength, now. Thanks Rick, you are a badass and very helpful to people around here
Very interesting article by Dr. John Berardi....says it is an "ebook" but whatever. He tried out all the different IF methods out there, did blood work, and documents his results, experiences, etc. It is good stuff. He also has some simple meal examples in there for diet newbies. He ended up liking Berkhan's lean gains IF the best, go figure, it is the best
He ain't some pussy, either. Posted pics at the end, dude is jacked.Intermittent Fasting | John Berardi Intermittent Fasting Free E-book
My personal experience with IF has been awesome. Dropped around 20 (225 down to 205) pounds and have lost zero strength, now. Thanks Rick, you are a badass and very helpful to people around here
I thought I posted this a few days ago but looking back, I see I must not have hit submit or something.
Very interesting article by Dr. John Berardi....says it is an "ebook" but whatever. He tried out all the different IF methods out there, did blood work, and documents his results, experiences, etc. It is good stuff. He also has some simple meal examples in there for diet newbies. He ended up liking Berkhan's lean gains IF the best, go figure, it is the best
Intermittent Fasting | John Berardi Intermittent Fasting Free E-book
My personal experience with IF has been awesome. Dropped around 20 (225 down to 205) pounds and have lost zero strength, now. Thanks Rick, you are a badass and very helpful to people around here
Very awesome information there brother! Thanks a ton for sharing that, and thank you for the kind words. I'm glad I could be some help to you and others here
Can you gain mass well on cycle while on IF? Day 10 on my current cycle and +10 on weight so far
There's your answer
There's your answer
Illness hit me hard the last couple weeks, and really took a toll on my cycle. Appetite and energy have both been down, and when I first got sick with the flu I couldn't eat anything or keep anything down and lost 6 lbs in two days.
Since then I've rebounded somewhat, gaining half of the weight I lost back. Right now I'm sitting at 183.5 (+11)
Next week I'm going to switch to more of a recomp with high carb/ low carb days at +20% over maintenance on workout days with-20% on cardio/rest days to try and clean up and drop bodyfat over the next few weeks. Hopefully I can get pretty lean again while keeping the weight at or close to 180. I will keep you all posted
Illness hit me hard the last couple weeks, and really took a toll on my cycle. Appetite and energy have both been down, and when I first got sick with the flu I couldn't eat anything or keep anything down and lost 6 lbs in two days.
Since then I've rebounded somewhat, gaining half of the weight I lost back. Right now I'm sitting at 183.5 (+11)
Next week I'm going to switch to more of a recomp with high carb/ low carb days at +20% over maintenance on workout days with-20% on cardio/rest days to try and clean up and drop bodyfat over the next few weeks. Hopefully I can get pretty lean again while keeping the weight at or close to 180. I will keep you all posted
I feel for you Rick! I have an I diagnosed stomach problem that think is an ulcer. Anyway, I lost 15 pounds in 6 days once and it sucked. Hope you feel better bro!
rustilldown
New member
You guys ever supplement with glutamine? I agree it doesn't have much muscle building properties If diet is adequate but it's great for intestinal health and gut health
I will use it on occasion, but I also agree that it is very overrated in terms of how much we need in terms of external supplementation. Generally speaking, your food should cover you if your macros are where they should be
Hey guys,
Loving all the info on the thread. From September-December, I went from 80kg to around 72kg with IF. I lost a mixture of fat loss and muscle loss. I've lost too much muscle I felt, so I'm going to start eating more but I still have stubborn fat around my obliques.
I was thinking 20%+ on workout days and 20%- on rest/cardio days as advised on here, but I'm worried this will put on too much fat (as well as muscle) when I'm really trying to build my muscle back and get rid of this stubborn fat.
Any help would be great!!
Loving all the info on the thread. From September-December, I went from 80kg to around 72kg with IF. I lost a mixture of fat loss and muscle loss. I've lost too much muscle I felt, so I'm going to start eating more but I still have stubborn fat around my obliques.
I was thinking 20%+ on workout days and 20%- on rest/cardio days as advised on here, but I'm worried this will put on too much fat (as well as muscle) when I'm really trying to build my muscle back and get rid of this stubborn fat.
Any help would be great!!
Taking gear during the fast is a very good idea to keep your protein synthesis going. They contain BCAAs which is recommended around fasted training, and the protein amounts in gear are not substantial enough to cause a big insulin release and break the fast....so no problem there. Gear is a great option to take during the fast.
You shouldn't put on any fat at all with that protocol. If you do, either your calories are off target or you have too many surplus days vs deficit days. For your goals, I would try to maintain 4 deficit days (cardio/rest days) with 3 Surplus days (workout days) and structure your training around that.
The body definitely adapts to mass amounts of food in a meal. It's nothing for me to sit down and eat 2k cals in a sitting anymore.
Thanks RR, I just finished my second 16Hr fast, and find it really hard to believe that I'm not the least bit hungry till around hour 15 when i can just find something to occupy myself, then boom, feeding time.
Rick, I know you like to limit your carbs on off days, would you mind listing couple of your favourite low carb, high calorie meals?
Rick, I know you like to limit your carbs on off days, would you mind listing couple of your favourite low carb, high calorie meals?
Yes, your body adjusts to the fast pretty quickly and don't even get hungry until around fast breaking ten after a while.
I never do any high calorie, low carb days. When I do low carb its on a lower calorie day. A typical low carb cardio day fast breaker would be...
2 grilled or baked skinless boneless chicken breasts or baked/grilled white fish
5 oz plain Greek yogurt or 1 cup fat free cottage cheese
2 scoops of whey
Steamed broccoli or other veggies
1 sweet potato or 1/2 cup brown rice (when aiming more for fat loss I will skip this and go to nearly zero carb except trace amounts)
My last meal of the day is usually similar to this as well
Brilliant, will try that. I have a separate abs day but I'll do a cut on that. Think I will slowly, BUT surely, start to see some better results.
Thanks! I reckon I'll be on this forum a lot
Is there any harm in extending the fast a couple times per month?
Also, similar to you, I'm only consuming trace carbs on cardio days, but I have noticed my urine and sweat smelling really bad. I'm assuming my body is entering ketosis.. Is this something I should worry about?
Also, similar to you, I'm only consuming trace carbs on cardio days, but I have noticed my urine and sweat smelling really bad. I'm assuming my body is entering ketosis.. Is this something I should worry about?
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Extended fasts are a very good idea if fat loss is your primary goal. The fat loss benefit multiplies when going beyond 16 hours. Your body will not be catabolic until fasting past the 30 hour mark. I routinely will extend the fasts to the 20 hour mark even up to 24 hours....having just one big meal in a day. Just make sure you are doing that only on cardio/rest days and not workout days.
It sounds to me like you are not hydrating enough, because that is not a common problem with a low carb diet. Try upping your water intake. No less than 1.5 gallons per day
Thanks Rick!! I did 24 hours today to get in sync with my work schedule.. It wasn't bad at all. I have been getting a gallon per day easily, but I will ramp it up a bit more. I find this to be a great change in my lifestyle. I really enjoy the large meals, and not having to plan my day around eating every couple of hours... Thanks so much for all the help.
Keto is something completely different than IF. When doing IF you are not going to put yourself into ketosis unless you are following a zero carb protocol on a daily basis, which is not what IF is about. A lot of us (including myself) incorporate a form of carb cycling into IF as a way of replenishing glycogen stores to saturation on workout days, then depleting those stores by following a low carb approach on cardio/rest days. The low carb diet coupled with burning the stores with cardio will deplete the glycogen and burn the fat. However ketosis is never the idea.
Some people have tried to incorporate Keto with IF, but it is not something I am a fan of because it compromises the goal of the protocol on workout days which is to replenish glycogen and build muscle with a caloric and carbohydrate surplus
This is an absolutely amazing source of information. I just today started IF and am still in the process of figuring out how to best adapt it for my purposes. My training goals/routine are far different from those of most people here so I'm going to have to customize it quite a bit. However, I have to say that going 16 hours without eating was a breeze today and I certainly had no issue putting down my calories during my feeding window (I may have lost 80 pounds in 2011, but I still have the appetite of a fat kid).
Good to hear that you are enjoying the information here, and that you are off to a great start on doing IF again.
If you need help with anything or getting anything set up just let me know!
The biggest challenge for me is going to be making sure I'm balancing the two goals I have in my workouts. Like most of us, the LGN (Look Good Naked) plan is a huge part of what I'm trying to do and as a result I want to maintain/build lean mass while cutting up. However, I'm also getting pretty into running and am considering some races/competitions, specifically trail running/races. So my cardio is not just designed to assist with the LGN plan, it's part of my training for those events. I run 4-6 days a week with most of those being 5 miles at a time and my weekend runs being 8+. I take a kettlebell-based bootcamp twice a week and also lift 3-4 times a week.
As a result, my training doesn't slide as easily into the workout v. cardio/rest day split you use. I need to figure out how to best structure my calorie totals and macros to support my training while still adding/maintaining lean mass and cutting bodyfat. Lofty goals I know, but I'm not one for taking the easy route.
As a result, my training doesn't slide as easily into the workout v. cardio/rest day split you use. I need to figure out how to best structure my calorie totals and macros to support my training while still adding/maintaining lean mass and cutting bodyfat. Lofty goals I know, but I'm not one for taking the easy route.
germaine91
Banned
There are no magical fat burning properties associated with IF. It's a great tool for appetite control, done great at dispelling the 6 meals a day myth and can fit some people's lifestyle great. Aside from that, there's not much else.
You left out the outstanding level of success the people of this forum have reported in leaning out and building LBM while using IF....
So you mean aside from doing exactly what it's supposed to do, and what nearly every avid lifter strives for, there isn't much else....
Please don't engage him - it's like feeding wild animals, nothing good is going to come of it. He's never going concede a point no matter how many people testify to their success using IF. There's way too much good information in this thread to let it get ruined by another argument (like at least two or three others have been when this guy gets involved in them).
If that is your position and belief, Then what is your point coming in my thread?
Don't like it? Fine....don't do it and GTFO
George_Costanza
New member
Hi RickRock13,
Thanks for all the great information and the that you have been going out of your way to answer everyone's questions for so long now. I just came across this thread yesterday.
I have been doing IF for about a 7 months now, with great results. I love the lifestyle most of all and not having to worry about my muscles falling off when I don't eat.
I concur with what you say about having to watch not to over-eat. I have the same problem. If there is a feast, like Christmas dinner, I can eat forever. I have no stop function. I'm starting to think that I would be successful at my local pie-eating contest.
I have one question for you, if you would be so kind to answer. I'm starting my first cycle IF style. I was told by my IF coach, that when I was going to do a slow-bulk, I would continue with my same eating protocols, only raising my training day carbs by 50 and adding 50 carbs to my rest days. Once strength gains stop or stall, I should add another 50 carbs. Do you think this is sufficient? I will continue to gauge my weight and weekly strength increases.
I know that friends of mine who cycle, say I should eat anything I can get my hands on and eat up to 500 carbs/day. Off the juice, my training day carbs would be about 250-300, so 500 seems excessive.
According to my IF coach, calories don't matter, but macros do. A training day calorie count may only be about 2400 when I get my clean macros in. My juice friends say I should be consuming 5000-7000 calories/day. I think that's crazy!
6'6"
190lbs
8% BF
Training day: Protein/carbs/fat 180/300/45
Rest Day: 200/50/95
Thanks for all the great information and the that you have been going out of your way to answer everyone's questions for so long now. I just came across this thread yesterday.
I have been doing IF for about a 7 months now, with great results. I love the lifestyle most of all and not having to worry about my muscles falling off when I don't eat.
I concur with what you say about having to watch not to over-eat. I have the same problem. If there is a feast, like Christmas dinner, I can eat forever. I have no stop function. I'm starting to think that I would be successful at my local pie-eating contest.
I have one question for you, if you would be so kind to answer. I'm starting my first cycle IF style. I was told by my IF coach, that when I was going to do a slow-bulk, I would continue with my same eating protocols, only raising my training day carbs by 50 and adding 50 carbs to my rest days. Once strength gains stop or stall, I should add another 50 carbs. Do you think this is sufficient? I will continue to gauge my weight and weekly strength increases.
I know that friends of mine who cycle, say I should eat anything I can get my hands on and eat up to 500 carbs/day. Off the juice, my training day carbs would be about 250-300, so 500 seems excessive.
According to my IF coach, calories don't matter, but macros do. A training day calorie count may only be about 2400 when I get my clean macros in. My juice friends say I should be consuming 5000-7000 calories/day. I think that's crazy!
6'6"
190lbs
8% BF
Training day: Protein/carbs/fat 180/300/45
Rest Day: 200/50/95
Definitely don't listen to your buddy that says eat everything in sight when "bulking" though I really hate that word. He is probably one of the many people out there that judge the success of their cycles by the scale. Trying to gain as much weight as possible is not very efficient or constructive because the majority of your gains will be fat.
Your coach is more on the right track but still way off of what I would do. First you need to figure out your daily maintenance and adjust from there. You should always stick to your same macro ratios for your workout and cardio days. If you are more concentrated on adding mass, go with 30% over on workout days and 10% under on cardio/rest days. That method is much better for adding LEAN mass over time rather than just all out bulking.
Glad you are enjoying it man!
George_Costanza
New member
Thanks RickRock. Much appreciated!
Jennafox
New member
I haven't read all of the info here yet, but find what I have read thus far interesting. I am on the fence about whether I want to try IF or if I want to do the alternate day method. I have completed a long fast before (30 days water only) for spiritual and health reasons. I felt great afterward. My goal is to finish losing the weight I need to lose and keep it off. I think that one of the afore-mentioned plans will work. Have you come across any reasons to avoid the "up day, down day" / alternate day method? I was thinking about trying this method first only because with our weird schedules (my husband works graves) & 4 kids in school + one I watch until about 7:30 4 nights a week, I can't always plan a consistent fasting/eating timeframe. I can, however, plan to either eat, or not eat, on alternating days.
Thanks for any light you can shed on this subject. I am planning to start more consistent weight training starting this week. I was also wondering if katanadrol & epi strong are still good to take while employing this kind of eating plan. Those are the 2 supps I use (other than protein & multi vitamins, etc) when I do choose to supplement. I also use fat burners sometimes, would be interested in knowing if there is one that you recommend above others. Thanks again!
Thanks for any light you can shed on this subject. I am planning to start more consistent weight training starting this week. I was also wondering if katanadrol & epi strong are still good to take while employing this kind of eating plan. Those are the 2 supps I use (other than protein & multi vitamins, etc) when I do choose to supplement. I also use fat burners sometimes, would be interested in knowing if there is one that you recommend above others. Thanks again!
ADF is a very popular form of IF, and is very effective. I have personally have never done it, but have spoken with many that have. The 16 hour fast and 8 hour feed works very well into the schedule for most people including myself and appeals more to the masses for obvious reasons.
With that said I'm not exactly sure how everything is structured with ADF. I do know it involves a much larger feeding on the fed days obviously because of the extreme calorie and glycogen depleted State your body will be in at that time. Just from a guessing standpoint, your feeding days would probably have to be at 170%-220% of your daily maintenance caloric and macro targets (under 200% for cutting, and over 200% for gaining), but that's a lot of guessing on my part. I know there are books out there like eat,stop,eat and others that explore ADF so that may be something you would want to look into if you are seriously considering it.
George_Costanza
New member
Ha ha, thanks soupeater. You too.
George_Costanza
New member
I discovered an interesting thing yesterday after fasting all day to enjoy a cheat meal feast in the evening: the longer I fast before a meal and the more excited I am to eat the food in front of me, the more animalistic I become. By animalistic, I mean I become very primitive and protective of my food around others, I don’t really breathe when I eat, and the funniest thing is, I start drooling uncontrollably, all over my food. I mean, large globs of saliva start dripping out of my mouth.
I took notice of this the other day when me and a friend had a sushi feast. I had not eaten yet for the day and did a serious session of squats earlier. I started drooling when the sushi arrived and had to try and catch it and hope that my friend and his girlfriend didn’t notice. Lol
I’m guessing the drooling is a natural mechanism for the body to aid in the digestion of our food and it’s not as pronounced when we eat frequent, small meals. I think it’s pretty funny though.
I took notice of this the other day when me and a friend had a sushi feast. I had not eaten yet for the day and did a serious session of squats earlier. I started drooling when the sushi arrived and had to try and catch it and hope that my friend and his girlfriend didn’t notice. Lol
I’m guessing the drooling is a natural mechanism for the body to aid in the digestion of our food and it’s not as pronounced when we eat frequent, small meals. I think it’s pretty funny though.
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Its funny that you touch on this subject, and its a great thing to bring up. It is all part of our human instinct just as our ancestors did the same.
As human beings we differ from animals in that we have the power of choice and self control....but even with that you still can't deny what happens when you finally get to eat. Its normal to eat fast, feel like you can never get full, and not want anything to come between you and your meal.
I often times have to slow my eating at times I break fast, as I wat almost uncontrably. Sometimes we don't even realize things we are doing. Sometimes during my extended fasts on the weekends, my daughter or wife will be talking to me ad I'm eating and they will physically have to interrupt me because I'm so into my meal that I'm not listening to anyone.
What's great is right after a fast breaker, getting that food high....almost a great sense of euphoria and you can literally feel the nutrients shuttling into your body. Sometimes on workout days when I'm running higher carbs I will get a food pump right after breaking fast as well. Those days are always immediately after a low carb, cardio day so I'm always depleted. At that time in a fasted state, after taking in 50-60% of your days macros and carbohydrates your body will shuttle those nutrients at an accelerated rate giving you that euphoric feeling and those "food pumps"as your glycogen stores replenish. If I have a tighter fitting shirt on I can see myself swell right up, and I can certainly feel it. Vascularity will start coming on big time right after breaking fast as well.
George_Costanza
New member
That's funny.
I love that food high after a big carb-up. I visualize the nutrients being shuttled around my body and into the cells.
I also went for a brunch with my friends the other day and these days I usually order two meals, as one just is not enough. My buddy's girlfriend asked if she could have one of my pancakes (since I had two meals) and out of politeness I obliged. However, on the inside, I was so angry. If anyone else at the table asked for a pancake, I was prepared to just say "no", and explain that there was not enough.
I also have trouble listening to anyone, even the TV for that matter, after a long fast. Makes sense though, you think a hungry lion is going to take his attention away form his kill after not eating for a couple of days and having a bunch of scavengers just waiting for him to step away?
I love that food high after a big carb-up. I visualize the nutrients being shuttled around my body and into the cells.
I also went for a brunch with my friends the other day and these days I usually order two meals, as one just is not enough. My buddy's girlfriend asked if she could have one of my pancakes (since I had two meals) and out of politeness I obliged. However, on the inside, I was so angry. If anyone else at the table asked for a pancake, I was prepared to just say "no", and explain that there was not enough.
I also have trouble listening to anyone, even the TV for that matter, after a long fast. Makes sense though, you think a hungry lion is going to take his attention away form his kill after not eating for a couple of days and having a bunch of scavengers just waiting for him to step away?
hi guys just need a little advice, i wish to start my cutting cycle tomorrow and ive been doing IF for a while now and my current routine is break fast at 2pm - 10pm. cardio in the morning and weights at about 7.
im going to stack clen and katandrol 3.0. im taking clen as soon as i wake but when should i take the katanadrol? because it says i need to take it with food however i eat at 2. is that too late in the day?
also the servings for katanadrol are 2 caps but do i take them both at once or spread it throughout the day?
thanks guys
im going to stack clen and katandrol 3.0. im taking clen as soon as i wake but when should i take the katanadrol? because it says i need to take it with food however i eat at 2. is that too late in the day?
also the servings for katanadrol are 2 caps but do i take them both at once or spread it throughout the day?
thanks guys
I always take my first dose of orals with my fast breaker and my last dose with my last meal. Split your dose and have them 8 hours apart.
The food helps absorption and more of the compound will get used by the body. Do not take oral anabolics on an empty stomach since stomach acids can break down some of it making it unusable. The food (especially fats) help to coat and protect the moleculular structure of the compound.
Rick - if I was incorporating ADF can I hit HIGH CALS/CARBS on Lift days?
I am talking really high like double maintenance! and then NOTHING/NO FOOD day after - is this realistic for muscle gain/fat loss as long as the weekly overall cals even out?
Thanks!
Rick - if I was incorporating ADF can I hit HIGH CALS/CARBS on Lift days?
I am talking really high like double maintenance! and then NOTHING/NO FOOD day after - is this realistic for muscle gain/fat loss as long as the weekly overall cals even out?
Thanks!
Yes, that's actually very close to the way that ADF is set up to my knowledge. You have to overcompensate on your lifting days with a huge surplus for the lack of cals on your nonfed days. Should be pretty awesome for recomp if you are within the right calorie ranges IMO
so as long as I am hitting my weekly cals (Maintenance=17,500) + or - depending on my goal, etc, its ok to almost DOUBLE my cal intake on lift days? (while implementing ADF)
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Yes, as long as your average daily caloric intake is suited for your goal you are fine. That would mean if your maintenance is 17,500 per week then over 17,500 a week for more focus on muscle gain or less than 17,500 per week for more fat loss. Obviously the greater shift one way or another concentrates more on one way or another. You would probably want to be very close to the 17,500 for more recomp.
Thanks!
Rick I think I speak for others here following this thread, Thank you for the time and info!
I have reinforced my knowledge of LG's and IF and now ADF quite well having joined this forum
Cheers!
Rick in your opinion regarding cutting or recomp -
I am 155lbs at 5'9" and 30" waist
I have a "4 pack" - my stubborn lower abs (front) are not tight - mind you I have no love handles just the lower area near my belly button isnt tight like my upper abs.
Should I cut or recoup with Lean Gains / IF style?
thanks in advance.
Burners are just fine during the fast, and you can have anything that has minimal caloric content without drastically altering or breaking the fast.
That's personal preference bro. Only you know what you want. I can't answer that for you. If you think you could cut up more, go for it. If you want to add more muscle while dropping fat, do a recomp. Just realize that recomps ate much harder to do and take much longer to get the same results
Wow this has been an extremely great read! I also spent time at the leangains site to absorb as much as possible about IF.
Anyway, I could use your help bros. I'm trying to design a way for me to benefit from this plan, but I have a herniated lumbar disc (which effectively stops me from doings squats and leg presses), and I have a bad left tricep tendon. I tore it a few years ago and had to have surgery. It never healed 100%. I estimate I have about 70% strength in my left tricep as compared to my right one. This also effectively stops me from doing dumbell presses or bench press.
So yes, I'm fucked royally. So what I've been doing is working around my injuries. I can do biceps dumbell curls just fine. I can only do tricep cable pulldowns though, and I have to really really warm up my left tricep before I can reach the 70% strength. I can do lat pulldowns just fine at my original strength level before my injuries.
I can't do much for my pecs though, so I'm doing cable crossovers so at least I'm getting some work on my chest. I also do leg extensions, although mostly my hamstrings (my quads get a good workout from my job, which has me picking up boxes off the floor, and since it's not safe for me to bend over, most of the time I just kneel instead)
Soooo, with my limited capability to work out, I desperately need to lose bodyfat and keep the muscle I have.
Now a problem I've been running into is that I have no idea how many calories my body burns, so to find out, I decided to buy one of those Bodymedia Fit armbands, and will give it a shot so that it can hopefully give me an estimate of what I burn daily.
Here's my current stats:
5'7
220lbs
BF Scale says I'm 27% BF currently (I was 34% 3 months ago, a fucking fatty fat ass lol)
Arms are 17.5" right now, but I'm sure some of that is fat
legs are 25" measured at the quad
I'm guesstimating that I'm burning around 3000cal per day. I lost approx 20lbs of fat by eating around 2000cal daily, doing 30mins of moderate intensity cardio, and working out twice a week with the protocol above. I'm stagnating though, my body is fighting back and I'm not losing anymore, so I think it's time to follow the IF protocol.
So anyway, I started yesterday and it went something like this:
Had a Lean Body shake (40g protein, 9g fat, 9g carbs) about 1hr before bed.
Got up at 6am. Took a shot of creatine/caffeine/tyrosine with 1l of water and did 30 mins of cardio (burnt approx 330cal according to my bike)
Took 10g of BCAA 30 mins after my cardio.
Had my fast breaker meal at around 1pm, approx 15hr after fasting. It was a burger with 2 patties and fries and a salad. I ate the fries but didn't eat the bread. I estimate that meal was probably 1200cal. I also had 2 Smirnoff Ice coolers, which I believe are around 230cal each. So the whole meal was around 1800cal.
I was full until around 6pm, at which time I had an Oh Henry bar and 10g of BCAA (Sorry I was craving a chocolate lol). The bar was 250cal.
Then for my final meal at 9pm, I had a Muscle Milk shake (approx 300cal) and a pear (I'm guessing around 100cal?)
So I'm about to go to bed and I'm feeling just a tad hungry.
I know I need to clean up my diet more, but how the heck do I eat a ton of fruits and veggies, get at least 150g of protein per day, AND stay 500cal below my maintenance level?
Anyway, I could use your help bros. I'm trying to design a way for me to benefit from this plan, but I have a herniated lumbar disc (which effectively stops me from doings squats and leg presses), and I have a bad left tricep tendon. I tore it a few years ago and had to have surgery. It never healed 100%. I estimate I have about 70% strength in my left tricep as compared to my right one. This also effectively stops me from doing dumbell presses or bench press.
So yes, I'm fucked royally. So what I've been doing is working around my injuries. I can do biceps dumbell curls just fine. I can only do tricep cable pulldowns though, and I have to really really warm up my left tricep before I can reach the 70% strength. I can do lat pulldowns just fine at my original strength level before my injuries.
I can't do much for my pecs though, so I'm doing cable crossovers so at least I'm getting some work on my chest. I also do leg extensions, although mostly my hamstrings (my quads get a good workout from my job, which has me picking up boxes off the floor, and since it's not safe for me to bend over, most of the time I just kneel instead)
Soooo, with my limited capability to work out, I desperately need to lose bodyfat and keep the muscle I have.
Now a problem I've been running into is that I have no idea how many calories my body burns, so to find out, I decided to buy one of those Bodymedia Fit armbands, and will give it a shot so that it can hopefully give me an estimate of what I burn daily.
Here's my current stats:
5'7
220lbs
BF Scale says I'm 27% BF currently (I was 34% 3 months ago, a fucking fatty fat ass lol)
Arms are 17.5" right now, but I'm sure some of that is fat
legs are 25" measured at the quad
I'm guesstimating that I'm burning around 3000cal per day. I lost approx 20lbs of fat by eating around 2000cal daily, doing 30mins of moderate intensity cardio, and working out twice a week with the protocol above. I'm stagnating though, my body is fighting back and I'm not losing anymore, so I think it's time to follow the IF protocol.
So anyway, I started yesterday and it went something like this:
Had a Lean Body shake (40g protein, 9g fat, 9g carbs) about 1hr before bed.
Got up at 6am. Took a shot of creatine/caffeine/tyrosine with 1l of water and did 30 mins of cardio (burnt approx 330cal according to my bike)
Took 10g of BCAA 30 mins after my cardio.
Had my fast breaker meal at around 1pm, approx 15hr after fasting. It was a burger with 2 patties and fries and a salad. I ate the fries but didn't eat the bread. I estimate that meal was probably 1200cal. I also had 2 Smirnoff Ice coolers, which I believe are around 230cal each. So the whole meal was around 1800cal.
I was full until around 6pm, at which time I had an Oh Henry bar and 10g of BCAA (Sorry I was craving a chocolate lol). The bar was 250cal.
Then for my final meal at 9pm, I had a Muscle Milk shake (approx 300cal) and a pear (I'm guessing around 100cal?)
So I'm about to go to bed and I'm feeling just a tad hungry.
I know I need to clean up my diet more, but how the heck do I eat a ton of fruits and veggies, get at least 150g of protein per day, AND stay 500cal below my maintenance level?
I am by no means a LG's expert but have been doing it religiously for almost a year now and can say a few things:
1. You need to clean up your diet - especially at that weight your at -
Think clean , whole foods like grains, veggies, fruits and lean meats
2. Sorry to hear about your limitations however try to incorporate heavy compounded lifts as much as you can prior to breaking the fast.
3. Hunger is a state of mind - you must work thru it - I have done 40 fasts with NO foods - its not hard once you program your mind.
Good luck
Thanks for your reply man.
Hunger is not a problem for me. I could fast for 2 days straight if I needed to.
My fear is to lose my muscle mass. I was around 20% BF before my injuries and my arms were 18.5". So I've lost some mass which I haven't been able to get back. Right now I just want to get this gut off my body, and lose another 20-30lbs. That should get me close to the 20% I was before. If I have good success with this plan, I may try to shoot for 15% if I can.
So today it has been like this:
I started my fast at 10pm last night. I took a ZMA and B-Complex caps before bed. I went to bed at 12:30am.
I woke up around 9:30am, took some creatine/caffeine/tyrosine and did 30 mins of cardio.
1hr later I took 10g of BCAA's.
It's currently 12:40pm.
I plan on going to the gym around 2pm, and I will do some fasted training with 10g of BCAA's before my workout.
I plan on breaking the fast around 3pm with a Lean Body shake (300cal) + a meal from a Greek place I know nearby (A chicken leg with potatoes and a Greek salad. I'm estimating 600cal?) So around 900cal in total, and maybe 60-70g protein?
Then my next meal will be another Lean Body shake with another salad around 7pm.
And them my final meal will probably be around 10pm. I'm going to buy some cottage cheese today, so it will probably be around 300cals of cottage cheese with a spoonful of splenda to sweeten it up a bit. I could probably have some more greens to go with it as well.
I really don't know how else to get so much protein in, and keep the carbs low other than doing it that way.
Here's the supplements I'm using currently:
1. Creatine
2. Caffeine
3. Tyrosine
(those are always in the morning, and always before cardio)
4. A multivitamin with my first meal
5. A spoonful of Flax Seed oil with my first meal
I was using Alpha Lipoic Acid before every meal as well, but apparently on IF it doesn't help much? So I'm going to cut down on it and maybe take one r-ala 150mg cap every other day?
Then before bed I take ZMA and B-Complex, which helps trememdously for sleep.
I'm also currently on Dutasteride for hair loss. Holy shit this stuff kicks ass, I'm already regrowing hair, and this is with a very low dose (0.1mg EOD). I can't tolerate higher, otherwise I get severe insomnia.
I was also trying a very low dose of Arimidex (0.07mg once a week)and I find that this is giving me aggression lol. When I take the Dutast and Adex together on the same day, the whole day I feel like the hulk, like I could tear shit apart with my bare hands lol.
My reasoning for this is that I understand that reduction of DHT can potentially raise E2 levels (along with all the environmental E2 mimickers we're exposed to), so I figured a very tiny dose of Adex will help to minimize this. So far I'm liking the results, but what do you guys think?
First off - you will not lose any muscle mass - thats a myth - muscle loss wont occur unless you prolong the fast past 48 hours and arent doing any lifting - second, why so many shakes? You need whole foods - lean meats like fish, chicken, pork, 90% lean beef - and fibrous veggies - its not hard to eat clean - I eat around 100grams of pure meat once I break my fast (chicken, eggs, fish, meats, etc)
also - you dont need the bcaa's on/around your cardio days - only before fasted lift bouts.
good luck
I can't do the "whole foods" thing where I live. I live with my mom and she just doesn't understand why I have to eat an entire chicken in 2 meals, or why I'm eating 4 steaks a day.
Her mentality is the Dr Oz bullshit. Eat "healthy" (meaning all the shit he promotes) and try not to eat meat at all.
If I buy a whole freezer worth of meat she'll start getting on my case about how I'm eating horribly and I should eat more fruits and veggies.
On the plus side she cooks really healthy, so I will eat a lot of times what she makes, but have to supplement with protein powders to get my protein ratios.
Also it's a nightmare for me to prepare food everyday. I'll spend all my free time cooking and getting stuff ready for the next day.
I rather just use shakes. I got down to 16% bf about 5 years ago like this, but that was before my injuries, and with zero cardio (I was lifting like the hulk, and had enormous power).
My goal is to get down to that again, even if for 3-4 months I have to drink half my meals as pure shakes.
Because of my injuries and limited ability to train hard, I had to add cardio, and I think the 30 mins a day I'm doing is not cutting it. I plan on increasing it to 1hr a day.
My other problem is that I don't get hungry. By the time I'm hungry it means I'm *really* low in calories.
Today for example. I did my training in a fasted state, with 10g BCAA prior, and 1l of water.
Then after I had my fast breaker meal, which consisted of the following:
An Angus Deluxe sandwhich from McDonald's, a salad with walnuts and cranberries I bought from the supermarket, and a Lean Body shake.
The nutritional guide says that sandwich has 800 calories and 47g of protein. The shake has 310 calories and 40g protein. I'm guessing the salad had around 50 calories? So my first meal was around 1160 calories. This was around 3pm.
My second meal was at 7pm. I wasn't really hungry, but I ate anyway. I had another Lean Body shake, and two boiled Corn on the Cobs (around 5" ears). Internet says those corns should be around 100 cal each, and the shake was 310 cal. So that was around 510 calories.
At 10pm I had my last meal. It was 12 egg whites and 10g of BCAA's. The egg whites were fried in about 4 tablespoons of olive oil.
I'm guesstimating that was around 400 calories?
And the fast begins again lol
So I don't know, how the heck can I improve this in my situation? I barely got 160g of protein with this plan and maybe around 2100 calories?
I can't wait to get that Bodymedia sensor device, so I can start tracking how many calories I'm actually burning.
gjohnson5
New member
This thread started on bb.com and The so-called IF expert had a hard time explaining his theories.... (Martin Berkhan) The main one he expounded upon was that IF doesn't slow down metabolism. The side theory to this was that meal frequency doesn't decrease metabolism. The other big one he expounded on was that fasted workouts do result in excess catabolism. They tend to rely on Lyle McDonald and Alan Argorn for their information....
Granted the first one seems to be believe scientifically. However I would like to see more study on bodybuilders and not 60 year old females. However the second one to me is still very controversial and I will go over the thread for any supporting science.
Since it is scientifically known that amino acids can be oxidized during workouts (methionine is converted into homocystine during workouts. glutamine is oxidized to glutamic acid which elevates ammonia.) BCAA can be oxidized even in resting muscle to produce glutamine and alanine much less during exercise...
Annu Rev Nutr. 2000;20:457-83.
Protein and amino acid metabolism during and after exercise and the effects of nutrition.
Rennie MJ, Tipton KD.
Source
Department of Anatomy & Physiology, University of Dundee, Dundee DD1 4HN, Scotland. [email protected]
Abstract
Sustained dynamic exercise stimulates amino acid oxidation, chiefly of the branched-chain amino acids, and ammonia production in proportion to exercise intensity; if the exercise is intense enough, there is a net loss of muscle protein (as a result of decreased protein synthesis, increased breakdown, or both); some of the amino acids are oxidized as fuel, whereas the rest provide substrates for gluconeogenesis and possibly for acid-based regulation. Protein balance is restored after exercise, but no hypertrophy occurs with habitual dynamic exercise. Resistance exercise causes little change in amino acid oxidation but probably depresses protein synthesis and elevates breakdown acutely. After exercise, protein synthesis rebounds for </=48 h, but breakdown remains elevated, and net positive balance is achieved only if amino acid availability is increased. There is no evidence that habitual exercise increases protein requirements; indeed protein metabolism may become more efficient as a result of training.
Do what you want , but I would really research this to see how one can maximize gains while following an IF diet/workout plan.
Granted the first one seems to be believe scientifically. However I would like to see more study on bodybuilders and not 60 year old females. However the second one to me is still very controversial and I will go over the thread for any supporting science.
Since it is scientifically known that amino acids can be oxidized during workouts (methionine is converted into homocystine during workouts. glutamine is oxidized to glutamic acid which elevates ammonia.) BCAA can be oxidized even in resting muscle to produce glutamine and alanine much less during exercise...
Annu Rev Nutr. 2000;20:457-83.
Protein and amino acid metabolism during and after exercise and the effects of nutrition.
Rennie MJ, Tipton KD.
Source
Department of Anatomy & Physiology, University of Dundee, Dundee DD1 4HN, Scotland. [email protected]
Abstract
Sustained dynamic exercise stimulates amino acid oxidation, chiefly of the branched-chain amino acids, and ammonia production in proportion to exercise intensity; if the exercise is intense enough, there is a net loss of muscle protein (as a result of decreased protein synthesis, increased breakdown, or both); some of the amino acids are oxidized as fuel, whereas the rest provide substrates for gluconeogenesis and possibly for acid-based regulation. Protein balance is restored after exercise, but no hypertrophy occurs with habitual dynamic exercise. Resistance exercise causes little change in amino acid oxidation but probably depresses protein synthesis and elevates breakdown acutely. After exercise, protein synthesis rebounds for </=48 h, but breakdown remains elevated, and net positive balance is achieved only if amino acid availability is increased. There is no evidence that habitual exercise increases protein requirements; indeed protein metabolism may become more efficient as a result of training.
Do what you want , but I would really research this to see how one can maximize gains while following an IF diet/workout plan.
chewyxrage
New member
Dude, you ate a McDonald's sand which which was 800 calories, not even 200 calories of that was protein. Eat better and you'll hit your protein goal. Any meal you eat should be around 40-45% calories from protein.
^well there is your problem bro. You need to seriously change your diet. You can't sit around listening to what your momma tells you to do. It's time to man up and be your own person and look out for your goals. Taking trips to McDonald's and having too many protein shakes aren't going to help you at all. You need lean meats, complex carbs, and green veggies. It's time to make a decision on whether you want to keep looking like you do, or you want to make a big change for the better. In your current situation, you will not change anything without cleaning that diet up big time.
gjohnson5
New member
Did you mean to type that or do you actually check the macros of each meal you eat to ensure they are 40-45% protein. Most people dont do that and I dont think it's even feasible. It doesn't matter if the meal is McDonalds or Legal Seafood , clean eating does solely mean high protein.
Many clean foods such as vegetables and fruits are higher in carbs then anything else. Some clean vegetables like avacadoes are higher in fats then anything. Most tree nuts are higher in fats then anything else. I wouldn't abstain from these foods simply because they don't meat a 40% - 45% protein ratio.
gjohnson5
New member
It's interesting. If you actually read some of the work of Lyle McDonald, Alan Argorn or Martin Berkam (some of the people who support these IF theories) where they research diet and training philosophies, they are not die hard clean eating advocates at all... Case in point
Max Condition Training and Fitness: Dirty vs. Clean Dieting: Roundtable
Martin Berkhan: From a purely physiological standpoint, it probably doesn´t matter if you’re including foods in your diet that may be labeled unclean by the generic bodybuilder. As long as protein remains a constant, there won’t be any measurable differences in fat loss in the short term when comparing two diets where the rest would be made up by either “clean” or “unclean foods.” There might be some long-term effects on body composition on a diet where fat and carbohydrate food choices are the worst possible (think trans fats and high fructose corn syrup), but these extremes aren’t relevant to the discussion in this context because I don´t think any competing bodybuilder subsists on such foods to a significant degree pre-contest. I do think one should opt for food choices that have satiating and nutritive properties in relation to their caloric content. These foods will in most cases be made up with foods that are traditionally labeled “clean.” However, I do think having cheat meals or “unclean” foods at least once a week has benefits in terms of adherence and sanity during the pre-contest diet (or any other diet for that matter).
Alan Aragon: It really makes no difference from a purely physiological standpoint as long as macronutrition is in check. This is evidenced by the mere fact that you can take ten different coaches (or competitors) and see that they have ten distinctly different approaches to pre-contest preparation. Nevertheless, their athletes will all show up on stage at the maximal degree of leanness that their genetics will allow. You’ll never see a competitor magically show up in better shape than he once did all because of switching out one doughnut per week with a cup of brown rice and a tablespoon of olive oil.
Yes, Martin Berkhan and most other IF advocates do not follow a typical 100% clean eating pattern to a T. I also agree with it as well. Unless I am dieting for a contest (like now) I generally have some "dirty" meals on my workout days and eat freely. The thing is that I always make sure I hit my desired macros. There is no problem with what you eat as last ng as the ending macros are right. The problem is that getting the macros right for fat loss is going to be difficult when eating stuff like McDonald's and pizza all the time. Most of that is high fat, high carb, and lower protein. Not a very effective diet for fat loss. In moderation those things can be enjoyed anytime by anyone however. You just need to know how and when you can eat them.
I've been doing 2 cheat meals per week through this whole contest prep, and I'm at 4.9% bodyfat (as of yesterday) Those cheats are great for what they can do to leptin, maintaining muscle/strength and keeping the metabolism from slowing. I'm having whole grain pasta tonight as a cheat and will probably get 400g carbs and 3500 cals for the day.
I've been doing 2 cheat meals per week through this whole contest prep, and I'm at 4.9% bodyfat (as of yesterday) Those cheats are great for what they can do to leptin, maintaining muscle/strength and keeping the metabolism from slowing. I'm having whole grain pasta tonight as a cheat and will probably get 400g carbs and 3500 cals for the day.
BigRickRock, I respect your opinion even from long ago when I joined this board.
I think you're thinking in terms of becoming very lean (you're at 4.9% bf right now for example)
I'm honestly not interested in becoming that lean. For my body type that number would extremely hard to maintain.
I would be happy for now to get back to that 16% bf I used to be.
In the past 3 months I've gone down from 34% bf to 27% simply on cardio and half my meals being protein shakes.
So while i'm trying to clean my diet, i don't know if i could clean it up to the level that you do, at least not without it becoming a full time job lol.
I think you're thinking in terms of becoming very lean (you're at 4.9% bf right now for example)
I'm honestly not interested in becoming that lean. For my body type that number would extremely hard to maintain.
I would be happy for now to get back to that 16% bf I used to be.
In the past 3 months I've gone down from 34% bf to 27% simply on cardio and half my meals being protein shakes.
So while i'm trying to clean my diet, i don't know if i could clean it up to the level that you do, at least not without it becoming a full time job lol.
I'm not the same guy as BigRickRock...lol
Some of what you say is correct. It is true that the leaner you get, the more changes you have to make to get even leaner. Usually by cleaning things up even more.
If you have very high bodyfat (>20%), then just making small changes can be huge on dropping weight. Going from 34% to 27% is really not a big deal, considering you would still have sky high bodyfat. If you are content with that, then its fine but I don't know who would be. To get to the mid teens on bodyfat would obviously requires little more discipline to get there. You could still get there eating pretty freely, but not as much as before. Of course the tighter and cleaner you make your diet, along with tracking cals and macros, the faster the results come too.
chewyxrage
New member
Uh, yeah, I did mean to type that. It was a blanket statement but nonetheless completely true. I do track every meal I eat but it doesn't mean EVERY single meal needs to hit that ratio but overall, in my opinion, at least 40% of your calories each day should come from protein. You think otherwise?
Yeah I know what you are saying.
I actually got that Bodymedia sensor thing and have been using it for the past 3 days straight.
It seems that my body burns around 2600-2800 on a rest day, and around 3200 on cardio/training days.
And since I've been logging my meals, it seems that I was eating too little, around 1600-2000 calories daily.
So the first thing I'm doing is increasing my caloric intake. I'm going to try to shoot for around a 700 calorie deficit.
I've been having a tough time doing my weight lifting on an empty stomach though, even with 10g of BCAA's. I find I can go heavier without aggravating my injuries if I have 40g of protein and 300 calories 30 mins before my workout.
I've also upped my cardio to 40 mins in the morning on an empty stomach. I was using BCAA's before the cardio but I stopped that also.
in the past 2 weeks I've dropped 1% bf, and am now at 26%. I'm hopeful I can drop to 20% by the beginning of May, and 15% by mid June.
The 40% minimum I don't agree with necessarily. It depends on a number of factors like what your present goal is, your caloric level (cutting or bulking), and how many carbs you typically consume per day. Some people tolerate carbs better than others. If you have a higher intake of carbs your protein ratio will be lower. I also don't like to go over 1.5g/lb on protein which for me is a 270-275g per day maximum. I'm usually around 250g most days
I have no idea how you eat this much protein without using protein powders or MRP's.
As an example today. I burnt 3200 calories. Following the IF plan, my first meal was at 1pm after 16hr fast. Because today was a non workout day, I had my biggest meal at this time. I had 2 chicken breasts with skin, a couple of baked potatoes, and a side salad with dressing. The chicken was probably around 600 calories, and maybe 40-50g of protein? The potatoes were probably another 400 calories? The salad with dressing (2 tablespoons) another 200 calories?
So my first meal was 1200 calories with 50g of protein.
My second meal was a Lean Body shake. 260 calories, and 40g protein.
My third meal was another Lean Body shake and 4 fried eggs with another side salad.
Eggs are supposed to be around 6g of protein? With the yolk and cooked in olive oil it's probably around 100 calories per egg?
So that means I had approx 660 calories, and 64 grams of protein?
The total for this is is 2120 calories for the whole day and 154g of protein.
I felt that was actually a pretty good day, and I'm still in approx 1000 calorie deficit for the day.
How the heck do I keep calories this low and get more than 150g of protein without protein shakes? Do I only eat pure meat and veggies?
rustilldown
New member
Easy, say you have a shake, add a half carton to full carton of egg whites,
Eat 3 chicken breasts instead of 2, or fry your eggs up scramble them and add a can of tuna.
I usually eat 12oz-14oz of chicken breast with my fast breaker and another 12oz with my last meal....BOOM there's a good 160g of protein right there. Add ONE SHAKE and I'm over 200g for the day. Easy as pie
Depending on the goal at the time, absolutely. It works great for cutting....even contest prep (I've done it). Also recomp or slowly adding lean mass while staying very lean.
If you were going for strictly mass, it may not be the wisest choice diet wise. For the most part it can be adapted to goals well by shifting calories. IF works well for bodybuilders
I'm still enjoying the benefits of IF myself. I recently just got back on it actually. I went off of IF for a while in favor of trying to add more mass. I added some, but I gained a little bit more body fat than I wanted in the process. So now, I'm back on IF trying to drop body fat down again and like always, it's working very well. I've been dropping a good 1-2 lbs per week without a major difference in diet or training (just changing the timing to a 16/8 versus 6 meals per day)
For shredding up, recomp, or even adding lean mass slowly while staying lean....IF is definitely the way to go for me.
I will probably go back off of IF in late fall when I try to bulk up some more, but other than that I will be on IF for probably a good 8-9 months of the year.
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