Intermittent Fasting discussion thread!!

[RickRock13]

I've been receiving a lot of PMs lately on how to properly set up an intermittent fasting diet, and a lot of other related questions pertaining to it, so I thought I would throw this thread up so everything can be discussed and more questions can be answered.

I've been doing this diet for a good amount of time now, and had quite a bit of success with it. I've used it for purposes of cutting fat, adding muscle, and even doing both at the same time. I'm not a fan of using the words "cutting" or "bulking". I simply adjust my calories accordingly to shift emphasis one way or the other towards adding muscle or cutting fat.

I am not the go to expert in this area, by any means but I can certainly help out most people with questions they may have. I know there are also a lot of others out there that follow this same protocol, and their input is also welcomed in here as well so as many people can benefit (including myself) as possible.

I will try to Copy and paste information from around the web when I see need to from time to time. I have got a lot of my info, and the real start to my interest in intermittent fasting from using Martin Berkhans "lean gains" protocol, though I have incorporated a lot of my own input into making it "my own" and I have come up with a plan that seems to work best for me that way. That is the best way to use intermittent fasting in my honest opinion. Tailor it into your specific schedule to best suit your lifestyle, and it will do great things for you as long as you stick to the basic principles in which make it so great and effective.

So feel free to ask any and all questions you may have on IF, and let's get some good discussion going!

 

[shirlene29]

what do you think of stop eat stop (or is it eat stop eat) in comparison?
and what macro ratio do you (personally) incorporate for IF?

 

[Mh48500]

Im in. Ive been doing IF for 3 or 4 weeks and have really liked the results. I was initially trying to add as much weight as possible, I got up to around 230lbs(6ft 2) but just didnt like the way I looked. I went to the beach and when I saw the pictures I didnt like the BF%. Anyways I started IF and kept my calories around 3500-4000 and I have lost a good amount of body fat. I actually dropped weight but think I look a lot better. Im sitting around 219 with a small waist, no six pack yet but gettng there.

I would still like to add a little weight, keeping body fat as low as possible. My question is that I am having a hard time fitting more meals into an 8 hour window, and so how do I add the right calories? It is already hard enough to eat the 5 meals I do, and I am not moving up. I have tried to front load my first meal, eat upwards of 1200-1300 calories the 1st meal. But by the 3rd meal, I feel I have to work to put the last 2 down.

Thanks and look forward to your thoughts.

 

[mad4training]

IF is really effective, I love it. I fast from 4pm to 8am next morning. Have shredded my abdominal fat. In conjunction with paleo, recovery and body composition and health has never been better. Reading iv done suggests it's favourable for metabolism, growth hormone secretion and insulin sensitivity. Highly recommend for competitive athletes in speed strength disciplines and also for cutting.

 

[shirlene29]

Martin posted an interesting article on breakfast recently...
what intrigued me is I'm never hungry in the morning anyway and if I ever forced myself to eat in the morning I would be ravenous for several hours and way over eat.
I got sick of being told you HAD to eat breakfast and you HAD to space out 6 eats a day when this just made me overeat and feel like crap whenever I did it...
I stopped telling people when I actually ate because I was tired of broscience when I knew something just wasn't right for me with it.

The flaw I have with his latest write up however is he contends people that have great insulin response are affected by this breakfast phenomenon... I was and am inclined to be insulin resistant

 

[muscleaddiction]

Yeah, I am gearing up to start IF again to try and drop some more bodyfat...just have to write up my plan and goals (calories, weight I want to be at, etc) and give it a go again. I did it while on a SARMs cycle a month or so ago, and I truly did feel much better during it.

Planning is key with IF, prepare your meals ahead of time, make sure you have plenty of BCAAs (I like a few products for this...Powerchews BCAA for on the go immediate BCAA with no need for water, Gear (when it is back in stock) for pre & post workout, and Modern BCAAs to sip in my water during the fasting portion of my IF. I also utilize need2slin for my carbohydrate meals as well...and prior to my fasted cardio.

It is somewhat challenging to get all of your calories in an 8 hour period because it seems that is all you do for 8 hours, but having meals prepared, knowing your schedule for the day makes it easy to figure out what food will be the most convenient to pack...for instance my first meal after my fast I am usually in the office, which is around noon, so I have a microwave accessible. But when I am out in the field in the afternoon, or in a meeting, I will need to pack something that doesn't require reheating such as tuna or a mixed green salad with chicken on top...baslamic & olive oil dressing of course, or even a protein shake with a handful of almonds (or one of my homemade organic protein bars ). IF (no pun intended) you prepare in advance and put thought into how you can achieve getting in all the required calories and macros in your 8 hour period, then you will have great success.

Water...water...water! Make sure you drink your water! Very important to stay hydrated and during the fasting time due to it helps you feel full, so the hunger feeling is tolerable. Also required for burning fat, metabolism, and shuttling the nutrients from your food into the muscles for growth...I think everybody knows this.

Man I am getting excited again! Thanks Rick for starting this thread, I will check back in here after I start back up to get ideas and or just see how others are doing and offer some insight as well.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[themondtster]

Subbed for info. I've been doing a slight fast every day and notice it helps. Won't eat for 12-14 hours after my last meal of the day.

 

[RickRock13]

what do you think of stop eat stop (or is it eat stop eat) in comparison?
and what macro ratio do you (personally) incorporate for IF?

I've used and incorporated some principles from Eat, stop, eat which is basically ADF (alternate day fasting) I believe, but I'm still not familiar with all the ins and outs of that protocol. I'm still planning on picking that book up at some point and learning more on that specific style of IF

My macros that I'm currently doing on intermittent fasting are pretty similar year round. There is a slight shift one way or the other on surpluses and deficits, but I always eat an over maintenance surplus on workout days and I always eat a defective on cardio or rest days.

Currently I'm sitting at about 3200 cals on workout days with 250-300g of protein and 250-300g of carbs

On cardio or rest days I have kept cals under 2k, and often times as little as 1500. Protein is always at least 200g these days and usually closer to 250g and carbs are kept usually very low at under 50g typically.

I never really count fats, but my fat intake is low on cardio/rest days and moderate on workout days

 

[RickRock13]

Im in. Ive been doing IF for 3 or 4 weeks and have really liked the results. I was initially trying to add as much weight as possible, I got up to around 230lbs(6ft 2) but just didnt like the way I looked. I went to the beach and when I saw the pictures I didnt like the BF%. Anyways I started IF and kept my calories around 3500-4000 and I have lost a good amount of body fat. I actually dropped weight but think I look a lot better. Im sitting around 219 with a small waist, no six pack yet but gettng there.

I would still like to add a little weight, keeping body fat as low as possible. My question is that I am having a hard time fitting more meals into an 8 hour window, and so how do I add the right calories? It is already hard enough to eat the 5 meals I do, and I am not moving up. I have tried to front load my first meal, eat upwards of 1200-1300 calories the 1st meal. But by the 3rd meal, I feel I have to work to put the last 2 down.

Thanks and look forward to your thoughts.

There is no need to put that many meals in on IF. Your fast breaker meal is recommended to be your biggest meal. I usually go with around 60% of my total cals for the day in that meal and will have as much as 2k in that sitting with 120-150g protein and 150g carbs (on workout days). I actually prefer 2-3 meals a day. Usually it's 3 meals on workout days and 2 on non-workout days

 

[RickRock13]

IF is really effective, I love it. I fast from 4pm to 8am next morning. Have shredded my abdominal fat. In conjunction with paleo, recovery and body composition and health has never been better. Reading iv done suggests it's favourable for metabolism, growth hormone secretion and insulin sensitivity. Highly recommend for competitive athletes in speed strength disciplines and also for cutting.

Yes, IF is great for overall health as well as all those other things you've mentioned. It's been a complete lifestyle change for me, and the payback has been huge

 

[RickRock13]

Martin posted an interesting article on breakfast recently...
what intrigued me is I'm never hungry in the morning anyway and if I ever forced myself to eat in the morning I would be ravenous for several hours and way over eat.
I got sick of being told you HAD to eat breakfast and you HAD to space out 6 eats a day when this just made me overeat and feel like crap whenever I did it...
I stopped telling people when I actually ate because I was tired of broscience when I knew something just wasn't right for me with it.

The flaw I have with his latest write up however is he contends people that have great insulin response are affected by this breakfast phenomenon... I was and am inclined to be insulin resistant

Yes, just like everything...people will respond to things differently based on different factors. Obviously this diet wouldn't be ideal for anyone diabetic or with insulin issues. The whole premise of the program is to utilize insulin sensitivity at the time of breaking fast and basically make your body a damn effective nutrient partitioner and obviously capitalizing on the fat loss benefits during the fasting phase

 

[RickRock13]

Yeah, I am gearing up to start IF again to try and drop some more bodyfat...just have to write up my plan and goals (calories, weight I want to be at, etc) and give it a go again. I did it while on a SARMs cycle a month or so ago, and I truly did feel much better during it.

Planning is key with IF, prepare your meals ahead of time, make sure you have plenty of BCAAs (I like a few products for this...Powerchews BCAA for on the go immediate BCAA with no need for water, Gear (when it is back in stock) for pre & post workout, and Modern BCAAs to sip in my water during the fasting portion of my IF. I also utilize need2slin for my carbohydrate meals as well...and prior to my fasted cardio.

It is somewhat challenging to get all of your calories in an 8 hour period because it seems that is all you do for 8 hours, but having meals prepared, knowing your schedule for the day makes it easy to figure out what food will be the most convenient to pack...for instance my first meal after my fast I am usually in the office, which is around noon, so I have a microwave accessible. But when I am out in the field in the afternoon, or in a meeting, I will need to pack something that doesn't require reheating such as tuna or a mixed green salad with chicken on top...baslamic & olive oil dressing of course, or even a protein shake with a handful of almonds (or one of my homemade organic protein bars ). IF (no pun intended) you prepare in advance and put thought into how you can achieve getting in all the required calories and macros in your 8 hour period, then you will have great success.

Water...water...water! Make sure you drink your water! Very important to stay hydrated and during the fasting time due to it helps you feel full, so the hunger feeling is tolerable. Also required for burning fat, metabolism, and shuttling the nutrients from your food into the muscles for growth...I think everybody knows this.

Man I am getting excited again! Thanks Rick for starting this thread, I will check back in here after I start back up to get ideas and or just see how others are doing and offer some insight as well.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

You bring up a lot of good points here man, that I'd like to touch on. First thing is BCAAs. BCAAs are essential for fasted training around workouts and before breaking fast on workout days. Martin recommends 8-10g BCAAs preworkout, post workout, and every 2 hours before breaking fast on WORKOUT DAYS. Nowhere does he recommend taking in BCAAs on cardio only days or rest days. BCAAs will cause an insulin release (even though small), and they do have a caloric value with them so it's best to not use them on the days that your goal is to burn fat (cardio/rest days) as they can slow your fat loss. BCAAs during the fast on days other than workout days go against the whole premise of the program and you could be cutting your fat loss short. On the other hand, if fat loss or minimizing fat loss is no concern at all, you could take in BCAAs anytime for the added protein synthesis, but those people probably wouldn't be doing IF anyways.

Another thing I hear all the time is people saying they are having trouble getting all the cals in during the 8 hour feeding window. After doing it for a while you will be surprised at much food you can eat in a sitting. my only problem I have now is keeping myself from overeating. I NEVER have to force food anymore and rarely get stuffed. Even sitting down and eating 2k cals at once I could still eat more. Bigger meals and less meals is the way to do it in my opinion. That 6 meal a day crap is old school and for people that don't do IF


Water....definitely drink lots of it whether on IF or any diet. Water intake is crucial for a number of reasons that I won't go into, becaus ewe all know that we need to hydrate!

 

[Mh48500]

There is no need to put that many meals in on IF. Your fast breaker meal is recommended to be your biggest meal. I usually go with around 60% of my total cals for the day in that meal and will have as much as 2k in that sitting with 120-150g protein and 150g carbs (on workout days). I actually prefer 2-3 meals a day. Usually it's 3 meals on workout days and 2 on non-workout days

Thanks Rick, I wll give that a try.

 

[muscleaddiction]

You bring up a lot of good points here man, that I'd like to touch on. First thing is BCAAs. BCAAs are essential for fasted training around workouts and before breaking fast on workout days. Martin recommends 8-10g BCAAs preworkout, post workout, and every 2 hours before breaking fast on WORKOUT DAYS. Nowhere does he recommend taking in BCAAs on cardio only days or rest days. BCAAs will cause an insulin release (even though small), and they do have a caloric value with them so it's best to not use them on the days that your goal is to burn fat (cardio/rest days) as they can slow your fat loss. BCAAs during the fast on days other than workout days go against the whole premise of the program and you could be cutting your fat loss short. On the other hand, if fat loss or minimizing fat loss is no concern at all, you could take in BCAAs anytime for the added protein synthesis, but those people probably wouldn't be doing IF anyways.

Another thing I hear all the time is people saying they are having trouble getting all the cals in during the 8 hour feeding window. After doing it for a while you will be surprised at much food you can eat in a sitting. my only problem I have now is keeping myself from overeating. I NEVER have to force food anymore and rarely get stuffed. Even sitting down and eating 2k cals at once I could still eat more. Bigger meals and less meals is the way to do it in my opinion. That 6 meal a day crap is old school and for people that don't do IF


Water....definitely drink lots of it whether on IF or any diet. Water intake is crucial for a number of reasons that I won't go into, becaus ewe all know that we need to hydrate!

Thanks Rick!!! Great info for sure...and will take note!

Any chance we can get you to post up your typical meal to break your fast that is in the 1200 cal range? It would be beneficial to see what and how much it is...I know I can eat a mound of food in a sitting, just curious to see yours .

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Nowhere does he recommend taking in BCAAs on cardio only days or rest days. BCAAs will cause an insulin release (even though small), and they do have a caloric value with them so it's best to not use them on the days that your goal is to burn fat (cardio/rest days) as they can slow your fat loss. BCAAs during the fast on days other than workout days go against the whole premise of the program and you could be cutting your fat loss short.

Oh man - this could be what was halting my fat loss on IF - I took BCAAS every day during the fast...I misunderstood 'training' to mean any kind of training, ie, cardio or Lift....didn't make the connection he just meant lifting when referring to training.

I do cardio every day in the AM during the fast, so I always took BCAA's around the cardio...I lift in the afternoon, during feed. I will try only doing the BCAA's on the days I lift and do cardio, and do a straight fast on the cardio only days.

Thanks for the info Rick!!!

 

[RickRock13]

Oh man - this could be what was halting my fat loss on IF - I took BCAAS every day during the fast. I do cardio every day during the fast, so I always took BCAA's around the cardio...I lift in the afternoon, during feed. I will try only doing the BCAA's on the days I lift and do cardio, and do a straight fast on the cardio only days.

Thanks for the info!!!

Don't get me wrong, it can slow your fat loss but it won't stop it by any means. The difference probably is not "huge" but over the coarse of many weeks it could be the difference in a couple lbs of fat....who knows.

The main thing to remember is to eat and train for whatever your goal is that day. On cardio and rest days eat and train for fat loss, on workout days I eat and train for muscle gain.

Another thing I incorporate often are extended fasts (doing one today actually). The longer you go fasting on cardio/rest days the more fat loss you can have. I often fast 20 hours on these days and every once in a while I will do a 24 hour fast with just one meal around 1500 cals. This is extremely effective for fat loss, and the great thing is that contrary to what you might think there is zero catabolism during this. Studies have proven that the body can go upwards of 30 hours (closer to 40 hours) before muscle wastage even starts. Take advantage on these days and fast as long as you can!

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Don't get me wrong, it can slow your fat loss but it won't stop it by any means. The difference probably is not "huge" but over the coarse of many weeks it could be the difference in a couple lbs of fat....who knows.

The main thing to remember is to eat and train for whatever your goal is that day. On cardio and rest days eat and train for fat loss, on workout days I eat and train for muscle gain.

Another thing I incorporate often are extended fasts (doing one today actually). The longer you go fasting on cardio/rest days the more fat loss you can have. I often fast 20 hours on these days and every once in a while I will do a 24 hour fast with just one meal around 1500 cals. This is extremely effective for fat loss, and the great thing is that contrary to what you might think there is zero catabolism during this. Studies have proven that the body can go upwards of 30 hours (closer to 40 hours) before muscle wastage even starts. Take advantage on these days and fast as long as you can!

A couple lbs is pretty huge for me right now, as I don't have too far to go to get to my goal.

Also, I"m going to try some longer fasting also. With the stims I'm taking I hardly have any appetite all day so a 24 hour fast here and there doesn't sound that bad actually.

Thanks for all the great info on this topic.

 

[RickRock13]

Thanks Rick!!! Great info for sure...and will take note!

Any chance we can get you to post up your typical meal to break your fast that is in the 1200 cal range? It would be beneficial to see what and how much it is...I know I can eat a mound of food in a sitting, just curious to see yours .

Well, I can give you a couple examples of meals that I've had this week for fast breakers, though I will tell you that I don't count calories. I haven't in a long time. I add things up in my head and I know a range that I will meet and stay in. I may be under 100 cals one day, and over 100 the next but it's all relative and works out the same in the end. Counting cals sucks, and I like to make my diet and lifestyle as comfortable as possible. I used to be OCD and weigh/count everything, but I found out that it really doesn't matter and it's unnecessary if you have an idea of what you are doing.

 

[shirlene29]

its funny...I do fine for fat loss on this ..slow and steady but fine....but after an initial drop that was primarily glycogen depletion I lost hardly anything on the RFL diet ..and I eat pretty moderate carbs!

Martin has some write ups that are incredibly interesting on diabetics using IF
thankfully Im not diabetic...just genetically predisposed to it and had a life style of binge eating for a long time which killed my A1C numbers and scared me into paying better attn to diet

 

[NTL]

I started IF about 6 weeks ago and have dropped about 12lbs .I work rotating shifts so my fasting times will change weekly . It is so nice to not have to worry about fixing 6-8 meals a day.I get about 2800 Cal's in 2-3 meals.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using EliteFitness

 

[muscleaddiction]

Well, I can give you a couple examples of meals that I've had this week for fast breakers, though I will tell you that I don't count calories. I haven't in a long time. I add things up in my head and I know a range that I will meet and stay in. I may be under 100 cals one day, and over 100 the next but it's all relative and works out the same in the end. Counting cals sucks, and I like to make my diet and lifestyle as comfortable as possible. I used to be OCD and weigh/count everything, but I found out that it really doesn't matter and it's unnecessary if you have an idea of what you are doing.

Understood...meals?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[Mh48500]

I will throw a typical 1st meal up for critique...keep in mind that I am not cutting, just trying to keep body fat down and actually gain weight.

Food Name
Amount
Unit
Cals
Fat (g)
Carbs (g)
Prot (g)
Delete


Total
1,336
35.6
98.2
153.1

Milk, whole

146
7.9
11.0
7.9

Banana, raw

90
0.3
23.1
1.1

Egg, whole, raw

143
9.9
0.8
12.6

Oatmeal, cooked, instant

212
2.8
42.6
5.8

Egg, white only, cooked

120
0.4
1.7
25.1

Chicken, breast, fried, no coating, skin not eaten

553
14.0
0.0
100.0

Grapes, raw

72
0.2
19.0
0.8



Total
1,336
35.6
98.2
153.1

 

[goin on 4T]

For me i use BCAA on all days upon waking especially before cardio and before working out to ensure that when your body burning energy and is not burning muscle for fuel but burning fat. So i think your thought on insulin is questionable. Because i would much rather be burning fat than muscle at any time. But i respect you and your knowledge so please help me understand. Thanks

Don't get me wrong, it can slow your fat loss but it won't stop it by any means. The difference probably is not "huge" but over the coarse of many weeks it could be the difference in a couple lbs of fat....who knows.

The main thing to remember is to eat and train for whatever your goal is that day. On cardio and rest days eat and train for fat loss, on workout days I eat and train for muscle gain.

Another thing I incorporate often are extended fasts (doing one today actually). The longer you go fasting on cardio/rest days the more fat loss you can have. I often fast 20 hours on these days and every once in a while I will do a 24 hour fast with just one meal around 1500 cals. This is extremely effective for fat loss, and the great thing is that contrary to what you might think there is zero catabolism during this. Studies have proven that the body can go upwards of 30 hours (closer to 40 hours) before muscle wastage even starts. Take advantage on these days and fast as long as you can!

Sent from my iPhone using EliteFitness app

 

[RickRock13]

For me i use BCAA on all days upon waking especially before cardio and before working out to ensure that when your body burning energy and is not burning muscle for fuel but burning fat. So i think your thought on insulin is questionable. Because i would much rather be burning fat than muscle at any time. But i respect you and your knowledge so please help me understand. Thanks






Sent from my iPhone using EliteFitness app

BCAAs are not what dictate whether you burn fat or muscle during fasted training. This is the same fears and myths that people have been following for years, thinking that you have to have some type of protein in your body or you go catabolic, which is nonsense. If you have that fear around cardio, what do you think happens while you are fasting, and why wouldn't you be catabolic then?

When insulin is up, your body cannot effectively burn fat. The definition of necessary is something that is needed or required. You don't need them and they unnecessarily disrupt the balance of glucagon and insulin during the fast on a day when the only goal is to burn fat.

By the way, I don't deem them that way the creator of Lean Gains deems them that way... I am not spitting out crap just read the site. The only time aminos are recommended is right before lifting in a fasted state, then every 2 hours after until you have your first meal. He never once recommends using them on a cardio or rest day, they go against the premise of the program.


Amino Acids cause an insulin release, leucine the most anabolic of them causes the largest insulin release. So insulin is still produced throughout the fasting portion of the day. It is more to do with the balance of insulin and glucagon. Glucagon is what tells your body to preserve muscle mass and burn fat for energy. Insulin and Glucagon like peptide are antagonistic hormones. Insulin is anabolic and tells the body to run off of glycogen, to store nutrients, glucagon tell the body to release fat for energy and not use the glycogen.

So...in a nutshell, consuming BCAAs before cardio will disrupt that balance, and cause an insulin release, which tells your body to burn glycogen for fuel instead of fat

 

[RickRock13]

Understood...meals?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

My last workout day fast breaker went like this:

Whole grain spaghetti with 97% lean ground beef
3/4 cup shredded mozzarella cheese
2 pieces of garlic bread
1 cup of fat free cottage cheese
1 slice of Layne Nortons cheesecake (150 cals, 20g protein, 6g carbs, 2.5g fat per slice)
2 scoops of whey with added maltodextrin and waxy maize

Another example looks like this

12 oz ribeye steak
1 cup green beans
Sweet potato
1 cup oats
2 scoops of whey with added maltodextrin and waxy maize
5 oz of flavored Greek yogurt




Cardio day fast breaking meals are always very clean and look similar to this....

14 oz grilled chicken breast (sometimes fish instead)
Steamed green veggies
5 oz plain Greek yogurt (or fat free cottage cheese)
2 scoops of whey


An alternative meal may be this

Salad with grilled chicken (10-14oz)
Fat free dressing
1/2 -3/4 cup fat free cheese
5 oz plain Greek yogurt
2 scoops of whey

 

[goin on 4T]

BCAAs are not what dictate whether you burn fat or muscle during fasted training. This is the same fears and myths that people have been following for years, thinking that you have to have some type of protein in your body or you go catabolic, which is nonsense. If you have that fear around cardio, what do you think happens while you are fasting, and why wouldn't you be catabolic then?

When insulin is up, your body cannot effectively burn fat. The definition of necessary is something that is needed or required. You don't need them and they unnecessarily disrupt the balance of glucagon and insulin during the fast on a day when the only goal is to burn fat.

By the way, I don't deem them that way the creator of Lean Gains deems them that way... I am not spitting out crap just read the site. The only time aminos are recommended is right before lifting in a fasted state, then every 2 hours after until you have your first meal. He never once recommends using them on a cardio or rest day, they go against the premise of the program.


Amino Acids cause an insulin release, leucine the most anabolic of them causes the largest insulin release. So insulin is still produced throughout the fasting portion of the day. It is more to do with the balance of insulin and glucagon. Glucagon is what tells your body to preserve muscle mass and burn fat for energy. Insulin and Glucagon like peptide are antagonistic hormones. Insulin is anabolic and tells the body to run off of glycogen, to store nutrients, glucagon tell the body to release fat for energy and not use the glycogen.

So...in a nutshell, consuming BCAAs before cardio will disrupt that balance, and cause an insulin release, which tells your body to burn glycogen for fuel instead of fat

I am sorry I just don't see it like that. I respectfully disagree with you and will bow out of this discussion.

 

[themondtster]

Rick- your thoughts on coffee on the fast stage. I usually wake up early and I'm at work for 430-500. I won't eat till later but I do have a cup of coffee or two. Helps curb appetite, its habit, and more of a social thing cause we bullshit for a while before working. Does this have a negative or positive effect.

 

[Akul]

http://oi47.tinypic.com/un1mr.jpg

I've been following IF and doing an RPT style training since May 21st.. Is a deload week necessary? I've gone up from 270lbx6 deadlift to 305lbx6 deadlift, 185lb x 6 bench to 212.5lb x 6, and 285lb x 6 squat to 315lb x 6 squats... I lost 6 lbs during this time and weigh 172lbs, I'm 6'2 and it looks like im in single digits BF%....

I feel like I can keep going up in weights, but I'm interested in finding out if I should have a deload week and then continue up after or keep going how I am going for a few more weeks before I deload..

Also, I do not count my calories (I know I should) but as I stated earlier I have lost 6 pounds... I would like to get into the 180-185 range but stay at 10 or below % body fat... Any suggestions? I'm pretty much stuffing my face at every meal haha.. I'm just pretty lanky.. I am an ectomorph (as you can see haha), so what should I do to put on that weight of LEAN muscle and remain at a lower BF


Thanks

 

[RickRock13]

I am sorry I just don't see it like that. I respectfully disagree with you and will bow out of this discussion.

No problem bud. I welcome your input if you'd like to continue in here.

There is nothing wrong with using BCAAs around cardio if you choose to. I was just simply stating that their use on cardio only or rest days can be detrimental towards maximum fat loss if that's your goal.

I actually used BCAAs on cardio days for a long time myself before I learned that

Animos replace ATP quickly when atp is available it will be used for energy before fats. If the goal on that day is to burn fat then you are doing 2 things to slow it. Supplying pre digested energy substrate and causing an insulin spike

 

[RickRock13]

Rick- your thoughts on coffee on the fast stage. I usually wake up early and I'm at work for 430-500. I won't eat till later but I do have a cup of coffee or two. Helps curb appetite, its habit, and more of a social thing cause we bullshit for a while before working. Does this have a negative or positive effect.

I think coffee is a great thing to have during the fasting period if that is something you like to have. Stimulants in general are recommended and encouraged by Martin during the fasting period (especially around training) for a variety of reasons including but not limited to an obvious increase in energy and performance, as well as the appetite suppression to help with the fasting that stimulants provide.

The thing to look at during the fasting period is caloric value and what may or may not cause an insulin release. Obviously adding things like milk and sugar to the coffee will do this.

 

[RickRock13]

http://oi47.tinypic.com/un1mr.jpg

I've been following IF and doing an RPT style training since May 21st.. Is a deload week necessary? I've gone up from 270lbx6 deadlift to 305lbx6 deadlift, 185lb x 6 bench to 212.5lb x 6, and 285lb x 6 squat to 315lb x 6 squats... I lost 6 lbs during this time and weigh 172lbs, I'm 6'2 and it looks like im in single digits BF%....

I feel like I can keep going up in weights, but I'm interested in finding out if I should have a deload week and then continue up after or keep going how I am going for a few more weeks before I deload..

Also, I do not count my calories (I know I should) but as I stated earlier I have lost 6 pounds... I would like to get into the 180-185 range but stay at 10 or below % body fat... Any suggestions? I'm pretty much stuffing my face at every meal haha.. I'm just pretty lanky.. I am an ectomorph (as you can see haha), so what should I do to put on that weight of LEAN muscle and remain at a lower BF


Thanks

First of all, nice progress! You are definitely in single digits, and judging just by the picture I would say you are somewhere between 8-9%.

As for trying to add mass, I would go with a bigger surplus on days that you workout. I know that you say you don't count cals, but you may have to at least make sure you are in the ballpark to add the weight. Adding in about 500 calories to your lifting days is a good start, and if you aren't gaining quickly enough you can add more....if you are gaining fat too quickly you can cut back to 300 or so. Adjustment is the key. Watch where you are every 2 weeks and go from there.

As long as you are making continued progression in the gym, and your body feels great....there is no need for a deload just yet. When you stall on making progress, or your body feels run down would be when a deload or time off would be beneficial to you.

Good luck to you bud

 

[Akul]

First of all, nice progress! You are definitely in single digits, and judging just by the picture I would say you are somewhere between 8-9%.

As for trying to add mass, I would go with a bigger surplus on days that you workout. I know that you say you don't count cals, but you may have to at least make sure you are in the ballpark to add the weight. Adding in about 500 calories to your lifting days is a good start, and if you aren't gaining quickly enough you can add more....if you are gaining fat too quickly you can cut back to 300 or so. Adjustment is the key. Watch where you are every 2 weeks and go from there.

As long as you are making continued progression in the gym, and your body feels great....there is no need for a deload just yet. When you stall on making progress, or your body feels run down would be when a deload or time off would be beneficial to you.

Good luck to you bud

Sounds good.. I guess I'll try to starting counting things a bit more and keep track from there.. I've been logging everything else so might as well start counting calories too...! It just seems so hard for me to put on any weight :[

I'll keep you guys updated and thanks for the advice!

 

[soupeater]

Subbed. Thanks Rick for the info on the BCAAs. I think that has been slowing my progress a bit.

 

[themondtster]

I think coffee is a great thing to have during the fasting period if that is something you like to have. Stimulants in general are recommended and encouraged by Martin during the fasting period (especially around training) for a variety of reasons including but not limited to an obvious increase in energy and performance, as well as the appetite suppression to help with the fasting that stimulants provide.

The thing to look at during the fasting period is caloric value and what may or may not cause an insulin release. Obviously adding things like milk and sugar to the coffee will do this.

I've been drinking my coffee straight black for awhile. Good to know, thanks!

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[shirlene29]

coffe raises blood glucose by a bit..its a bizarre phenomenon ....I wouldn't suggest cutting it out tho...just throwing that out there

 

[RickRock13]

coffe raises blood glucose by a bit..its a bizarre phenomenon ....I wouldn't suggest cutting it out tho...just throwing that out there

That is true that it does a very small amount, but it does return to the normal fasted state quickly and makes probably no discernible difference overall in your fasting benefits

 

[themondtster]

I know if I don't drink a cup I will feel real tired and a bit lethargic sometimes almost faint. It's either that or eat real soon in AM.

 

[muscleaddiction]

I know if I don't drink a cup I will feel real tired and a bit lethargic sometimes almost faint. It's either that or eat real soon in AM.

Yeah...coffee is kind of needed in the morning, but if I am going to be successful with IF, then I will do whatever it takes even putting coffee on hold for a bit.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[CSB]

I am very keen to give this a try, my aim is purely to lose bodyfat at this stage.

My usualy cutting plan is 300g pro a day 200g carbs (100 pre workout 100 post workout) and around 60-70g fats a day

I am still struggling to wrap my head around this approach as i train weights in the am at 6am to 7am and i do my cardio at night from 6.30 to 7.30pm, i wish i could swop them around but my training partner can only do weights in the am.

How would i adapt this diet to this schedule.

Also i use NO Explode pre workout (just bought a huge tub) can i still use this 30min before morning workout and will it still be essential that i purchase bcaas?

Thanks for any assistance

 

[Cali72]

I'm gonna have to give this a go.
Just the thought of not having to eat every couple of hours sounds very appealing.

So my fasting period will be from 0100-1700 hours.

During the 8 hour feed does meal frequency come into play?
Can u only have 2 meals if u reach your desired calorie intake?
Or do you need to space out on like 3 meals or so?

 

[RickRock13]

Yeah...coffee is kind of needed in the morning, but if I am going to be successful with IF, then I will do whatever it takes even putting coffee on hold for a bit.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

The great thing with IF is that it is very lenient. If you want to drink coffee, drink coffee. It won't make a difference in you reaching your goals bro. The effect on blood glucose is very minuscule, and the reason I didn't want to mention it. People tend to nitpick the hell out of this, and you really don't need to. It's pretty simple....throughout your fast don't worry about things like stimulants or even trace amounts of cals from things like coffee, diet soda, or sweeteners. Those things are fine, and Martin does it himself. Im not a coffee drinker, but I will have bottled water with some crystal light drink mix for flavor during my fast a lot of times. It comes out to like 5 cals a packet I believe, but it stays below that threshold of what causes that big insulin spike and breaks the fast.

 

[RickRock13]

I am very keen to give this a try, my aim is purely to lose bodyfat at this stage.

My usualy cutting plan is 300g pro a day 200g carbs (100 pre workout 100 post workout) and around 60-70g fats a day

I am still struggling to wrap my head around this approach as i train weights in the am at 6am to 7am and i do my cardio at night from 6.30 to 7.30pm, i wish i could swop them around but my training partner can only do weights in the am.

How would i adapt this diet to this schedule.

Also i use NO Explode pre workout (just bought a huge tub) can i still use this 30min before morning workout and will it still be essential that i purchase bcaas?

Thanks for any assistance

Your plan is fine bro. You just won't get the extra little benefit of fasted cardio, but no big deal. You will still have amazing results. I also workout at 6-7 AM and then break fast at noon. Feel free to use your pure workout no problem. Just stay away from the pure workouts with sugar and cals in them. The calorie free ones are fine. BCAAs before and after weight training and every two hours before breaking fast is recommended also.

Whatever your diet is set up like, just do the same and put it into that 8 hour window. Ideally, you would want to consume the largest part in your fast breaker (post workout) meal. In that meal try to get a decent amount of carbs and protein. I go for 100g protein minimum with 60%-70% of my daily carbs in that meal as well. Your body will be very anabolic at the fast breaking stage, and this is where you can reap the most benefits from your nutrients. Your body will act almost like a sponge and use them cals very efficiently.

 

[RickRock13]

I'm gonna have to give this a go.
Just the thought of not having to eat every couple of hours sounds very appealing.

So my fasting period will be from 0100-1700 hours.

During the 8 hour feed does meal frequency come into play?
Can u only have 2 meals if u reach your desired calorie intake?
Or do you need to space out on like 3 meals or so?

Meal frequency isn't all that important, other than taking in the largest part of your cals in your post workout meal. I do 2-3 meals a day every day. Generally 2 large ones and 1 smaller one on workout days.

 

[CSB]

Your plan is fine bro. You just won't get the extra little benefit of fasted cardio, but no big deal. You will still have amazing results. I also workout at 6-7 AM and then break fast at noon. Feel free to use your pure workout no problem. Just stay away from the pure workouts with sugar and cals in them. The calorie free ones are fine. BCAAs before and after weight training and every two hours before breaking fast is recommended also.

Whatever your diet is set up like, just do the same and put it into that 8 hour window. Ideally, you would want to consume the largest part in your fast breaker (post workout) meal. In that meal try to get a decent amount of carbs and protein. I go for 100g protein minimum with 60%-70% of my daily carbs in that meal as well. Your body will be very anabolic at the fast breaking stage, and this is where you can reap the most benefits from your nutrients. Your body will act almost like a sponge and use them cals very efficiently.

Thats great thanks, just one more thing, also bought myself 12 lbs of my pws shake lol 40g pro and 40g carbs per serving

Can i include that in my "post workout/ fast break meal"

My idea so far is this :

NO explode and bcaas 5.30 am train 6am to 7am weights

7am bcaas

9am - bcaas

11am bcaas

1pm - meal 1
Shake 40g whey 40g carbs
80g raw oats
200g chicken breasts
1 x apple

4pm - meal 2
200g extra lean mince with 200g brown rice and veges
1 whey shake (50g pro)
1 tablespoon peanut butter


Cardio 6.30 to 7.30

8.30pm - meal 3
1 tub cottage cheese
1 scoop whey
250 greek yoghurt
1 tablespoon olive oil


Something like that? thats just an example havent worked out my macros yet, but currently 224 lbs 5 ft 11, but holding a fair bit of fat from bulker, and yes currently on cycle as well.

 

[tryionlannister]

Okay Rick, I have a few questions:
I'm 6ft 188lbs. bf 14% 38 years old

I'm a teacher and I'm a single dad with two small kids. Since this is summer I can run IF any way I want, but once I get back to teaching things will change. On cardio days, I get up at 4am becuase I can do that at home and this is if my 1 year old or three year old dont get uo in the middle of my workout. I have to drop them off at daycare and then get to work by seven. I won't get off wrok until 3, get my kids about 3:30 and make it to the gym by 4:00. I hope this amkes sense?

Anyways how would you set up IF on the schedule? From my understanding I am supposed to all of my calories in an 8 hour window, but the biggest protion of thise calories should come after your weight training workout which I can't do until after 4:00
Do I just do the intermittant fasting from 10-6? My workouts ususally last about an 1.5 hours so by the time I make it home and feed the kids it would be 6 b4 i ate. I typically go to bed right after my kids about 9.

I hope that makes sense.

 

[soupeater]

Ok Rick. I'm trying to dial in my macros and calories for workout and non workout days. I'm gonna track them like a Nazi for awhile until I get a feel for where I should be. Could you , for simplicity sake, tell us approx what percent calorie deficit of maintenance levels u recommend for off days and what percent cal surplus you recommend for workout days? Also what's your protien per pound of bodyweight/lbm suggestions for both days? Thanks very much.

 

[ChemicalNeed]

Great info

 

[ChemicalNeed]

Subbed

 

[RickRock13]

Thats great thanks, just one more thing, also bought myself 12 lbs of my pws shake lol 40g pro and 40g carbs per serving

Can i include that in my "post workout/ fast break meal"

My idea so far is this :

NO explode and bcaas 5.30 am train 6am to 7am weights

7am bcaas

9am - bcaas

11am bcaas

1pm - meal 1
Shake 40g whey 40g carbs
80g raw oats
200g chicken breasts
1 x apple

4pm - meal 2
200g extra lean mince with 200g brown rice and veges
1 whey shake (50g pro)
1 tablespoon peanut butter


Cardio 6.30 to 7.30

8.30pm - meal 3
1 tub cottage cheese
1 scoop whey
250 greek yoghurt
1 tablespoon olive oil


Something like that? thats just an example havent worked out my macros yet, but currently 224 lbs 5 ft 11, but holding a fair bit of fat from bulker, and yes currently on cycle as well.

Your plan looks good and having the post workout shake with your fast breaking meal is fine. I do that myself with added carbs to hit my protein/carb/calorie targets for the meal.

 

[RickRock13]

Okay Rick, I have a few questions:
I'm 6ft 188lbs. bf 14% 38 years old

I'm a teacher and I'm a single dad with two small kids. Since this is summer I can run IF any way I want, but once I get back to teaching things will change. On cardio days, I get up at 4am becuase I can do that at home and this is if my 1 year old or three year old dont get uo in the middle of my workout. I have to drop them off at daycare and then get to work by seven. I won't get off wrok until 3, get my kids about 3:30 and make it to the gym by 4:00. I hope this amkes sense?

Anyways how would you set up IF on the schedule? From my understanding I am supposed to all of my calories in an 8 hour window, but the biggest protion of thise calories should come after your weight training workout which I can't do until after 4:00
Do I just do the intermittant fasting from 10-6? My workouts ususally last about an 1.5 hours so by the time I make it home and feed the kids it would be 6 b4 i ate. I typically go to bed right after my kids about 9.

I hope that makes sense.

10-6 would work great for you, and in your instance since you workout in the afternoon, you would eat your biggest meal (post workout) and have the smaller meal or meals for the fast breaker.

 

[RickRock13]

Ok Rick. I'm trying to dial in my macros and calories for workout and non workout days. I'm gonna track them like a Nazi for awhile until I get a feel for where I should be. Could you , for simplicity sake, tell us approx what percent calorie deficit of maintenance levels u recommend for off days and what percent cal surplus you recommend for workout days? Also what's your protien per pound of bodyweight/lbm suggestions for both days? Thanks very much.

Absolutely!

When primarily aiming for muscle gain, I will do 30% over maintenance on workout days with 10% under on cardio or rest days

For primarily a fat loss goal, I will do the reverse (10% over workout days, 30% under on cardio or rest days)

For recomp, I do 20% over and 20% under. Though I will tell you this way the progress is very slow on both muscle gain and fat loss, but it does work if you have it set up right.

 

[soupeater]

Or you could give us a macro ratio for each type of day instead of the protein per lb figure. ....

I'm currently setting up my spreadsheet with a 30/40/30 (C/P/F) macro ratio on cut days and 40/40/20 on workout days. Does that sound good? Thanks man.

 

[ballerj63]

Just started IF for a recomp. Did about a 3 month bulk and I ballooned up to 205. Gained a lot of strength while bulking and eating everything in site.

Started to cut carbs on off days(60-100 g) and increase on workout days (100-150 or more grams). Calorie intake when working out is 2000, off days is 1600. I initially thought that I would lose motivation and focus while training fasted. I was wrong. I'm still seeing some strength increases whole working out. Hopefully, it will continue, but it has only been a week.

They hardest thing for me on IF is getting all my required macros down in a timely manner. It seems that I'm eating nonstop for 8 hours.

Sent from my Desire HD using EliteFitness

 

[RickRock13]

Or you could give us a macro ratio for each type of day instead of the protein per lb figure. ....

I'm currently setting up my spreadsheet with a 30/40/30 (C/P/F) macro ratio on cut days and 40/40/20 on workout days. Does that sound good? Thanks man.

I like to go low carb on cardio/rest days. I pay less attention to ratio splits and go for more of a specific target. I like a maximum of 75g carbs on rest days but thats my preference. We are all different and respond to carbs differently, so you will just have to find what works best for you. If that split works well for you then go for it.

As for protein, I always aim for 1-1.5g per pound of LBM. So a 200 lb guy with 10% bodyfat would need to fall in the range of 180-270g per day

 

[RickRock13]

Just started IF for a recomp. Did about a 3 month bulk and I ballooned up to 205. Gained a lot of strength while bulking and eating everything in site.

Started to cut carbs on off days(60-100 g) and increase on workout days (100-150 or more grams). Calorie intake when working out is 2000, off days is 1600. I initially thought that I would lose motivation and focus while training fasted. I was wrong. I'm still seeing some strength increases whole working out. Hopefully, it will continue, but it has only been a week.

They hardest thing for me on IF is getting all my required macros down in a timely manner. It seems that I'm eating nonstop for 8 hours.

Sent from my Desire HD using EliteFitness

Like I said earlier, try eating bigger meals and less of them. At 1600-2000 cals per day it should be easy to get cals in. I do that all the time in one meal

I actually have more energy training fasted than I do after eating. I wouldnt have it any other way. I love fasted training!!

 

[Matthersby]

Alright Rick.
I swore I'd never even consider IF, but now I seriously am based on so many's impressive results, such as yourself.
Alright heres my thoughts, any advice you have to give would be great:
I work 430 a.m.-3 p.m. around 5 days a week. I lift around 330 p.m., sometimes as late as 5.
I am planning on recomping until my next cycle in 3-4 months.
When I don't work, I lift at 9 a.m.
My questions are: Should I change my feed times ( I am imagining my times on work days will be noon to 8p.m./bedtime) on off days where I wake up hours later and lift way earlier?
Should I still reduce carbs pre-bedtime?
Can I actually skip IF on off-work days or schedule the fast differently?
On non-lifting days, I really have no clue what I should do...

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Hey Rick - I believe I read in past threads that you are a big fan of using a product like N2Slin for your diet (cutting and bulking).

How does N2slin work with a diet like IF and when and what dose do you take it relative to your fast and meal schedule? ie, should you have a dose in you when you break your fast with the first meal? Only with meals with more carbs?

Thanks!

 

[RickRock13]

Alright Rick.
I swore I'd never even consider IF, but now I seriously am based on so many's impressive results, such as yourself.
Alright heres my thoughts, any advice you have to give would be great:
I work 430 a.m.-3 p.m. around 5 days a week. I lift around 330 p.m., sometimes as late as 5.
I am planning on recomping until my next cycle in 3-4 months.
When I don't work, I lift at 9 a.m.
My questions are: Should I change my feed times ( I am imagining my times on work days will be noon to 8p.m./bedtime) on off days where I wake up hours later and lift way earlier?
Should I still reduce carbs pre-bedtime?
Can I actually skip IF on off-work days or schedule the fast differently?
On non-lifting days, I really have no clue what I should do...

The great thing about IF, is it can be adapted around your lifestyle and still be very effective. I can't stress enough how versatile this diet really is. Ideally you would want to maintain that 16/8 split as much as possible and keep the feeding window the same when you can.....but if you have a day that you need to shift things, go ahead and do it. It won't make a bit of difference in the grand scope of things. I have a family with a wife and kids, and sometimes we have things we do on the weekends. If we are out of town and my wife wants to go to breakfast, I will go and eat with them. I may not be getting all my benefits that day...sure, but building the physiques we want is a marathon and not a sprint right? I like to live my life comfortably. I've been OCD about things before, and this diet allows me more freedom than any other I've done before.

So....make your feeding window whatever will work best for you, but try to be somewhat consistent with it. If you want to break fast earlier on them days that you workout in the morning, that's fine. Just try to end your feeding after 8 hours to shift that window.

 

[RickRock13]

Hey Rick - I believe I read in past threads that you are a big fan of using a product like N2Slin for your diet (cutting and bulking).

How does N2slin work with a diet like IF and when and what dose do you take it relative to your fast and meal schedule? ie, should you have a dose in you when you break your fast with the first meal? Only with meals with more carbs?

Thanks!

Yes, bro I use need2slin religiously. On workout days I usually take 2 caps before my fast breaking meal and another 2 caps before my last meal of the night. On cardio days I take 1 cap before my fasted cardio, and that is usually about it since I go relatively low carb on those days. Sometimes I will take 1 cap before a meal if I have enough carbs in it (around 50g)

 

[RickRock13]

For the record, some people want to know how well IF can work on cycle. Well, let me be the first to tell you that it can be EXTREMELY effective on cycle for getting lean muscle gains. Right now I just started week 7 of a 12 week cycle of Test E and Masteron E with Epi for the first 6 weeks and Katana for the last 6. I am up 15 lbs as of today, and my body fat at the start was 6.5% and is now right at 7%. I'm now shifting my cals to shred up under 6% while adding in a couple more lbs of muscle. I would say those are pretty good numbers for a cycle that I'm only half way through! Not to mention adding 50-60 lbs on several compound lifts

 

[soupeater]

^ right on man. Sweet ass results. I was wondering how on cycle might change it. Would you not take orals until you break fast? For the fat soluble part of it? Ie beastdrol.

 

[CSB]

how does one factor in a cheat meal ?

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[RickRock13]

^ right on man. Sweet ass results. I was wondering how on cycle might change it. Would you not take orals until you break fast? For the fat soluble part of it? Ie beastdrol.

That is exactly what I do. I take my first dose of Orals with the fast breaker, and my second dose with my last meal

 

[RickRock13]

how does one factor in a cheat meal ?

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I treat every workout day as a chance for Cheat meals. I don't get strict with eating clean on those days, as I allow myself a moderate to high carb intake and moderate amounts of fats. So, if I want to have some burgers on the grill, if the wife and kids want pizza, or if I decide I'd like to have a big plate of spaghetti I do it on workout days. That gives me half the week to eat freely, while half the week is done in a caloric deficit eating very clean.

 

[RickRock13]

Another thing I didn't really touch on before is The ratio of workout days to non workout (cardio or rest) days. I alternate between them, so every other day is a workout day with the days in between being my cardio or rest days. I think this approach is best in maintaining that balance between the two. When trying to lower bodyfat more, I will have 4 out of 7 days of the week as my clean cardio/rest days with 3 workout days. When adding mass, I do the reverse (4 workout days, 3 cardio days). You need to make sure that your average caloric intake for the week puts you in an overall deficit if trying to lose, and an overall surplus when trying to gain. Obviously you can't have 5 workout days with a surplus with only 2 rest days or cardio days and expect to lose weight

 

[CSB]

I was about to ask about ratios,i train 5 days a week weights and 5 cardio sessions at the moment, i will use 3 days to eat bigger and then on smaller bodypart days and rest reduce cal mainly from carbs.

I have just completed my first fast and first pw meal, and i feel likei am 8 months pregnant with ronnie colemans love child. The fast wasnt easy either, felt like i could gnaw the kneecaps offa charging buffalo

First meal was

2 egg whole 8 egg whites
Pws shake
100g raw weight oats
1 large pear
200g smoked turkey breast
30g raw cashew nuts

I cant imagine eating 3600 cal lol on weight days

 

[newNimproved]

i usually fast from 10pm til around 10am or 11am.........then a light meal after fasted cardio

 

[muscleaddiction]

I am gearing up here to get back on IF this coming Monday, ever since I went back to normal eating I haven't felt as good as I did on IF, not sure why but felt better at times in a fasted state...not all bloated and crap all the time.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[RickRock13]

I was about to ask about ratios,i train 5 days a week weights and 5 cardio sessions at the moment, i will use 3 days to eat bigger and then on smaller bodypart days and rest reduce cal mainly from carbs.

I have just completed my first fast and first pw meal, and i feel likei am 8 months pregnant with ronnie colemans love child. The fast wasnt easy either, felt like i could gnaw the kneecaps offa charging buffalo

First meal was

2 egg whole 8 egg whites
Pws shake
100g raw weight oats
1 large pear
200g smoked turkey breast
30g raw cashew nuts

I cant imagine eating 3600 cal lol on weight days

The fast will get easier in time, and before you know it you wont even get super hungry until an hour or so before breaking fast.

Also the amount of food you can eat will increase over time, making getting all those cals in a piece of cake

 

[RickRock13]

I am gearing up here to get back on IF this coming Monday, ever since I went back to normal eating I haven't felt as good as I did on IF, not sure why but felt better at times in a fasted state...not all bloated and crap all the time.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

I will try and dig up dome info on it, but there is a whole grocery list of health benefits to doing IF, as well as its positive effects on your sense of well-being. Anytime your body us more efficient at using nutrients its going to perform and feel better

 

[Keith1]

Holy god I can't do intermittent fasting while taking ghrp6 and cjc haha

 

[CSB]

thanks rickrock fir the advice so far ,going to give it a go properly

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[soupeater]

Yeah my belly is almost always flat on IF. Used to bloat a lot. Now only if I pig out on ww pasta or something. Nice benefit for sure.

 

[CSB]

odd question but would a glass or two of physlium husks be ok during fast so i can start workibg on fibre , cant stomach it during eating phase

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[RickRock13]

odd question but would a glass or two of physlium husks be ok during fast so i can start workibg on fibre , cant stomach it during eating phase

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Anything with caloric content can disrupt your fast, but a general rule of thumb that Martin suggests on his site is staying below a 50cal threshold as to cause minimal impact on insulin release during fasting, and allowing your body to return to a fasting state quickly. So depending on the amount you consume, you could have some. I like to not take any cals in and reap the full benefits of the fast, but a little bit of that won't hurt you much if you need it. That's part of making this diet the best for YOU

 

[Jrl37]

I love IF! I go 8pm-12pm every day! Stomach feels so flat in the mornings.. Shredded

 

[RickRock13]

I love IF! I go 8pm-12pm every day! Stomach feels so flat in the mornings.. Shredded

The way I incorporate IF also has a bit of carb cycling to it as well. since I'm doing workouts every other day (Monday, Wednesday, Friday) with cardio days in between them it works incredibly in this manner. I fill up all my glycogen stores on my workout days and somewhat carb up, then go low carb on the cardio days to deplete them. This usually leaves me with a very dry and ripped look by the end of the day on my low cal/low carb days

 

[muscleaddiction]

Monday is the day, getting prepared, setting my goal, and back on IF...can't wait! Dropping a little more bf prior to my cycle.

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[CSB]

The way I incorporate IF also has a bit of carb cycling to it as well. since I'm doing workouts every other day (Monday, Wednesday, Friday) with cardio days in between them it works incredibly in this manner. I fill up all my glycogen stores on my workout days and somewhat carb up, then go low carb on the cardio days to deplete them. This usually leaves me with a very dry and ripped look by the end of the day on my low cal/low carb days

i am trying to do a similar approach at the moment, mon tue and wed are "higher" carb days around 150g mainly in first meal , as these are my big bodypart training days , then thursday is low carb maybe 50g then friday arms is a weak bp so 150g and then sat and sun will be low carb 50g unless i throw in another quad session saturdays then will up sat to 150g

is that ok 4 maybe 5 high carb days
2 low carb days maybe 3

everyday though calories below maintenance round 2500-3000


i am now in day 4 and it def gets alot easier for anyone in my position just starting, day 1 was hell, extreme hunger followed by extreme bloat, day 2 was alot better and day 3 was very manageable , although i am still holding water .

weight has been consistent throughout which i am not concerned about as i can feel holding alot of water but should get better soon

 

[RickRock13]

i am trying to do a similar approach at the moment, mon tue and wed are "higher" carb days around 150g mainly in first meal , as these are my big bodypart training days , then thursday is low carb maybe 50g then friday arms is a weak bp so 150g and then sat and sun will be low carb 50g unless i throw in another quad session saturdays then will up sat to 150g

is that ok 4 maybe 5 high carb days
2 low carb days maybe 3

everyday though calories below maintenance round 2500-3000


i am now in day 4 and it def gets alot easier for anyone in my position just starting, day 1 was hell, extreme hunger followed by extreme bloat, day 2 was alot better and day 3 was very manageable , although i am still holding water .

weight has been consistent throughout which i am not concerned about as i can feel holding alot of water but should get better soon

That is a good approach, but would work better if you alternated high and low carb days. That would be more of "carb cycling" which is pretty effective.

I like to alternate between workouts and cardio days, high cal and low cal, high carb and low carb. Its the best of both worlds for growth and fat loss if your calorie targets are spot on

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

Rick - do you see any downside to doing multiple 24 hour fasts in a row?...well, 23 hour fasts I guess....ie, eat one huge meal per day hitting your calories / macros? I did this for 3 days in a row last week....felt pretty good...noticed a big time difference on the scale and in the mirror. I'm only eating 1500-2000 cals per day so it is doable in 1 hour.

How do you think your body would react if you did this for say, 2 weeks straight? I have about 10 lbs to lose to get to goal and they are the very hard lbs to lose here at the end...need to try to bust the plateau. Perhaps an every other day approach to this might be better?

I think I could pull it off, but if there are negative effects then I'd avoid it. Certainly goes against 'traditional' wisdom regarding dieting.

 

[Needtobebigben]

Hey I am also following a LG routine, wouldnt mind some advice; at the moment this WAS my structure.

Wake: 6:00 - BCAAs, Glutamine, Creatine, Taurine, Green tea, caffeine and vitamins.
Clen, T3

Cardio: 8:00-9:00 - Incline walk whilst sipping BCAAs

Weights 11:00-12:00 - 5x a week split
Whilst sipping BCAAs, creatine and glutamine.

Intervals 12:00-12:15

12:30 - PWO meal. 100g Protein. 200g Carbs, minimal fat.

15:30 - 80g Protein. 50g Carbs, 30g Fat

20:00 - 60g Protein. 0g Carbs. 40g Fat.

22:00 - BCAAs, creatine, glutamine, taurine, vitamins, ZMA, n2 sleep.

This was how i used to do it, i am now thinking of dropping the bcaas for morning cardio. Maybe even switching weights 10-11 then cardio 11-12 then break fast. Easy?

Thoughts? Goals are obviously to decrease body fat. About 12% atm 205lbs 6'0

 

[dubbzero]

I started IF Tuesday evening 8pm...loving it.. My appetite suppressed so much. I went from eating 6-7 small meals a day to 3. I break the fast at 12 noon, have my second meal at 4 and last at 8pm.. Honestly after breaking the fast I'm not hungry at all throughout the day and only need because I know I have to. Gonna stick to this from now on. It's so much more convenient than eating every 3 hours and still always being hungry

 

[RickRock13]

Rick - do you see any downside to doing multiple 24 hour fasts in a row?...well, 23 hour fasts I guess....ie, eat one huge meal per day hitting your calories / macros? I did this for 3 days in a row last week....felt pretty good...noticed a big time difference on the scale and in the mirror. I'm only eating 1500-2000 cals per day so it is doable in 1 hour.

How do you think your body would react if you did this for say, 2 weeks straight? I have about 10 lbs to lose to get to goal and they are the very hard lbs to lose here at the end...need to try to bust the plateau. Perhaps an every other day approach to this might be better?

I think I could pull it off, but if there are negative effects then I'd avoid it. Certainly goes against 'traditional' wisdom regarding dieting.

I would advise against doing too many days in a row of extended fasts. Alternating every other day is not a bad idea though. In order to eliminate muscle wastage and catabolism, I think its best to separate lower cal days and cardio, extended fasts, or anything that puts you in a defecit for fat burn into every other day.....with higher cal and carb days (preferably workout days) in between.

This allows you to fill back up your glycogen stores the day after depleting them through a defecit. This is one more tool to fight catabolism, and a big part of the reason that we see no muscle catabolism on those lower calorie defecit days mixed in with cardio and extended fasts. Without traditional diets you are in a defecit everyday during a cut, do that's why muscle catabolism is always an issue. With IF, we deplete and then fill up the next day. Its a perfect balance for growth and/or fat loss without having to worry about losing muscle

 

[tha_Waco_kid]

I would advise against doing too many days in a row of extended fasts. Alternating every other day is not a bad idea though. In order to eliminate muscle wastage and catabolism, I think its best to separate lower cal days and cardio, extended fasts, or anything that puts you in a defecit for fat burn into every other day.....with higher cal and carb days (preferably workout days) in between.

This allows you to fill back up your glycogen stores the day after depleting them through a defecit. This is one more tool to fight catabolism, and a big part of the reason that we see no muscle catabolism on those lower calorie defecit days mixed in with cardio and extended fasts. Without traditional diets you are in a defecit everyday during a cut, do that's why muscle catabolism is always an issue. With IF, we deplete and then fill up the next day. Its a perfect balance for growth and/or fat loss without having to worry about losing muscle

Good stuff Rick -

I'm trying different tactics and seeing how my body reacts after all the good info I've gotten here - It is interesting to see the effects.....dare I say I'm actually enjoying this cutting cycle?

 

[RickRock13]

Hey I am also following a LG routine, wouldnt mind some advice; at the moment this WAS my structure.

Wake: 6:00 - BCAAs, Glutamine, Creatine, Taurine, Green tea, caffeine and vitamins.
Clen, T3

Cardio: 8:00-9:00 - Incline walk whilst sipping BCAAs

Weights 11:00-12:00 - 5x a week split
Whilst sipping BCAAs, creatine and glutamine.

Intervals 12:00-12:15

12:30 - PWO meal. 100g Protein. 200g Carbs, minimal fat.

15:30 - 80g Protein. 50g Carbs, 30g Fat

20:00 - 60g Protein. 0g Carbs. 40g Fat.

22:00 - BCAAs, creatine, glutamine, taurine, vitamins, ZMA, n2 sleep.

This was how i used to do it, i am now thinking of dropping the bcaas for morning cardio. Maybe even switching weights 10-11 then cardio 11-12 then break fast. Easy?

Thoughts? Goals are obviously to decrease body fat. About 12% atm 205lbs 6'0

While you can have some success cutting some fat with that approach, I'm more of a fan of keeping your training and diet specific to your goal for that day. That is why I don't like doing cardio on days I do weight training. On days you workout your goal should be to build muscle. Cardio can counter that, unless you eat enough yo make up for it, which then takes away from the fat loss from the cardio.

If I were you, I would look at a 3 or 4 day split and doing cardio on the other days. Go 10-15% over maintenance on workout days and 20-30% under maintenance on your cardio days. That protocol would probably cut you up even better than your current plan without the risk of muscle loss.

 

[RickRock13]

I started IF Tuesday evening 8pm...loving it.. My appetite suppressed so much. I went from eating 6-7 small meals a day to 3. I break the fast at 12 noon, have my second meal at 4 and last at 8pm.. Honestly after breaking the fast I'm not hungry at all throughout the day and only need because I know I have to. Gonna stick to this from now on. It's so much more convenient than eating every 3 hours and still always being hungry

Oh man....that's no lie! IF is so much easier than that eating every 2-3 hours crap.

The thing that many don't realize is that this is the way we were designed to eat. This is how man first ate on this planet and how he ate for many centuries following. Early man woke each day in a fasted state and spent lots of time and calories hunting food all day, to finally gorge and break fast at night....then repeated the next day. History will also tell you that primitive man had the best natural physiques in terms of lean mass and overall body composition!!!

 

[RickRock13]

Good stuff Rick -

I'm trying different tactics and seeing how my body reacts after all the good info I've gotten here - It is interesting to see the effects.....dare I say I'm actually enjoying this cutting cycle?

And why wouldn't you enjoy it? Cutting fat doesn't have to suck. I've gotten under 6% without giving up any food that I wanted whether it be burgers, pizza, ice cream, bratwurst, or pasta. Its all about nutrient timing and hitting your caloric and macro nutrient targets

 

[soupeater]

IF is epic

 

[Matthersby]

Hey quick question. If my eating window runs until bedtime, should I still eat the majority of carbs pre and post workout and taper them down towards bedtime or just hit my targets for the day however I can?

 

[FT10]

Hey fellow EF members. IF really interests me. I'm a professional w/stable work hours, and I'm just soooo tired of my life revolving around eating 5-6 times/day. It's holding me hostage! I have a few questions about IF that I hope you can help with. Since I work stable hours, wake up at around 6-7am and train at 7pm, the LG guide suggests 2 pre w/o meals, one at 12pm-1pm to break the 16 hour fast (consisting of around 20% of my daily calories), one at around 3pm-4pm (20% of daily calories), and a post work-out meal at 8pm-9pm (60% of daily calories). I'm looking to recomp right now, so I'm consuming around 3000 cals daily. My training split is shoulders/tris (monday), abds/HIIT cardio (tues, fri, sun), legs (wednesday), chest/bis (thurs) and back/traps (saturday). Now, I understand that my post w/o meal should be lower in fat b/c I'll be consuming a fair amount of carbs there, but what do I do for my macros for the 2 pre w/o meals? I need some carbs in me to do HIIT cardio, so should I split my three meals in a "protein and fat, protein and carbs and protein and carbs" manner? Whatever help/suggestions you guys can make will be greatly appreciated.

 

[RickRock13]

Hey quick question. If my eating window runs until bedtime, should I still eat the majority of carbs pre and post workout and taper them down towards bedtime or just hit my targets for the day however I can?

The bulk of your carb intake is best centered around your workouts. I would make sure and get at least 60% of your total carbs then. Other than that when you take in carbs is irrelevant as long as it fits into your feeding window

 

[RickRock13]

Hey fellow EF members. IF really interests me. I'm a professional w/stable work hours, and I'm just soooo tired of my life revolving around eating 5-6 times/day. It's holding me hostage! I have a few questions about IF that I hope you can help with. Since I work stable hours, wake up at around 6-7am and train at 7pm, the LG guide suggests 2 pre w/o meals, one at 12pm-1pm to break the 16 hour fast (consisting of around 20% of my daily calories), one at around 3pm-4pm (20% of daily calories), and a post work-out meal at 8pm-9pm (60% of daily calories). I'm looking to recomp right now, so I'm consuming around 3000 cals daily. My training split is shoulders/tris (monday), abds/HIIT cardio (tues, fri, sun), legs (wednesday), chest/bis (thurs) and back/traps (saturday). Now, I understand that my post w/o meal should be lower in fat b/c I'll be consuming a fair amount of carbs there, but what do I do for my macros for the 2 pre w/o meals? I need some carbs in me to do HIIT cardio, so should I split my three meals in a "protein and fat, protein and carbs and protein and carbs" manner? Whatever help/suggestions you guys can make will be greatly appreciated.

Everyone is a little different on what may work best for them, so you might have to try a couple different ideas to see what will give you the most benefit. Your idea of going protein/fat, protein/carb, protein carb is a good start and probably what I would do

 

[CSB]

Ok just a bit insecure about my layout, with work my training evolves day to day , but my previous schedule was 1 bodypart a day 5 day week with cardio on weekends and 2-3 sessions during the week in the evening, I am trying to adjust it so that I can maximize fatloss and retain muscle as far as possible. Now I have taken the advice already given and tried adapting it as far as possible. So this will be an example of this week.

Monday – no training diet wasn’t the best although I did only eat after 1pm till 9pm mainly rubbish lol
Tuesday – training back and did 20min cardio moderate 6-7am
Tuesdays diet will be :
1-pm meal 140g pro 140g carbs 20g fats
4.30pm meal – 80g pro 30g fats
6.30 – 7.30 – 40 min moderate cardio
8pm meal – 80 g pro 30g carbs 20g fats

Overall macros : 300g pro 170g carbs 70g fats calories 2500-2600 cal

Wednesday – chest and delts am and 40 min cardio pm

Calories breakdown same as Tuesday

Thursday – legs am no cardio pm

Calorie breakdown will be higher carbs up to 250g and overall calories 2800-2900

Friday – arms am 40min cardio pm

Calorie breakdown will be 2200 to 2300 cal no carbs fats slightly higher

Saturday and Sunday will be 45min cardio fasted in the am

Calorie breakdown will be 300g pro and 100g fats both days calories 2100

Current weight is 218 lbs down from 220.6 lbs last week so total loss for the week was 2.6 lbs

I know I am below maintenance everyday , maintenance if I work it out should be 3270 cal per day ?

Maybe on quads / legs day I should increase calories to 3500 ?

Sorry for the long post just want to confirm I am still on the right track here .

 

[RickRock13]

Ok just a bit insecure about my layout, with work my training evolves day to day , but my previous schedule was 1 bodypart a day 5 day week with cardio on weekends and 2-3 sessions during the week in the evening, I am trying to adjust it so that I can maximize fatloss and retain muscle as far as possible. Now I have taken the advice already given and tried adapting it as far as possible. So this will be an example of this week.

Monday – no training diet wasn’t the best although I did only eat after 1pm till 9pm mainly rubbish lol
Tuesday – training back and did 20min cardio moderate 6-7am
Tuesdays diet will be :
1-pm meal 140g pro 140g carbs 20g fats
4.30pm meal – 80g pro 30g fats
6.30 – 7.30 – 40 min moderate cardio
8pm meal – 80 g pro 30g carbs 20g fats

Overall macros : 300g pro 170g carbs 70g fats calories 2500-2600 cal

Wednesday – chest and delts am and 40 min cardio pm

Calories breakdown same as Tuesday

Thursday – legs am no cardio pm

Calorie breakdown will be higher carbs up to 250g and overall calories 2800-2900

Friday – arms am 40min cardio pm

Calorie breakdown will be 2200 to 2300 cal no carbs fats slightly higher

Saturday and Sunday will be 45min cardio fasted in the am

Calorie breakdown will be 300g pro and 100g fats both days calories 2100

Current weight is 218 lbs down from 220.6 lbs last week so total loss for the week was 2.6 lbs

I know I am below maintenance everyday , maintenance if I work it out should be 3270 cal per day ?

Maybe on quads / legs day I should increase calories to 3500 ?

Sorry for the long post just want to confirm I am still on the right track here .

I'm not a big fan of being in a continuos caloric deficit every day. No matter what diet you are on, you will be at a high risk of catabolism and muscle loss. I know it will drop your fat quicker, but it is best to do it slow and controlled. There is no need to lose any hard earned muscle if you don't have to. I would at the bare minimum make sure you are a good 10% over maintenance on your larger body part days like legs chest and back

 

[CSB]

I'm not a big fan of being in a continuos caloric deficit every day. No matter what diet you are on, you will be at a high risk of catabolism and muscle loss. I know it will drop your fat quicker, but it is best to do it slow and controlled. There is no need to lose any hard earned muscle if you don't have to. I would at the bare minimum make sure you are a good 10% over maintenance on your larger body part days like legs chest and back

thanks RR , so basically just raise my calories to 3500 today , tomorrow and thursday (big days) then into 30% deficit fri sat and sun , then repeat week on week ?

can i still do my evening cardio sessions on some of the big days , just doesn't feel right only doing 2-3 a week, feel more accomplished doing 5 good sessions at least ?

 

[RickRock13]

thanks RR , so basically just raise my calories to 3500 today , tomorrow and thursday (big days) then into 30% deficit fri sat and sun , then repeat week on week ?

can i still do my evening cardio sessions on some of the big days , just doesn't feel right only doing 2-3 a week, feel more accomplished doing 5 good sessions at least ?

You can do whatever works for you, though personally I'm not a fan of mixing lifting and cardio on the same days. I like to eat and train for the goal that day. When doing cardio, the goal should be to burn fat, when lifting the goal should be to build muscle, and your diet should also reflect those goals.

Doing cardio 3 or 4 times a week will be fine. That is what I do. I just make the most of it and go for a 60-75 minute session.

 

[CSB]

ok got it ,many thanks ,will restrict cardio to 3 times a week on "off" days and increase to longer sessions and on those days be 30 percent below ,other days 10 percent over !will let you know how it goes

Sent from my GT-I9100 using EliteFitness

 

[muscleaddiction]

Just started IF again today, and don't think I want to come off again...last night I crashed early due to just exhaustion, so last meal yesterday was 6pm, and due to meetings at work this morning didn't get my first meal of the day until 1 pm...so 19 hour fast the first day, unintentional of course, but also slept 12 hours too...double whammy! So eating my second meal of the day right now...Fava Beans w/ground chicken and marinara sauce & greek yogurt w/ scoop of Rocky Road protein mixed, earlier for my first meal I had 12 whites w/low sugar organic apple cinnamon oats cooked in w/2 tbls peanut butter drizzled on top, a protein shake, and an apple...dinner will be chicken and veggies, then fast again at 9 pm. See how this works for a while...calories were low today as I didn't train...letting body rest. Will train tomorrow morning at 4:30 am...fasted!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness

 

[Rayca]

IF is really effective, I love it. I fast from 4pm to 8am next morning. Have shredded my abdominal fat. In conjunction with paleo, recovery and body composition and health has never been better. Reading iv done suggests it's favourable for metabolism, growth hormone secretion and insulin sensitivity. Highly recommend for competitive athletes in speed strength disciplines and also for cutting.

4 p.m. is what works best for me to stop eating. How many hours is that before you go to bed?