Inner Chest

[highlander555]

Ok so... by the idea of "muscle contract as a whole and no emphasis can be placed on the desire part of the muscle" I should just do deadlifts and over head presses and voila all set... because deadlifts work lower body and upper body and it's actually a push pull movement all in one exercise. And the overhead press will work the shoulder gridle as well as pecs and triceps... So I won't be needing the bodybuilding bullshit right? Iluminate me please, i'm so confused right now... My whole world just collapsed right there after those posts.

THe world just imploded! AHHHHHHHHH!

Though I know you're joking, I think you're closer to the truth than you may think. I think people would be surprised how much benifit they could get if they did nothing but a deadlift and an overhead press.

While the deadlift (IMO) hits up the back, hips, traps, and shoulders, I would also include the squat in with it to fully his the legs.

And while the overhead press hits up the shoulders, traps, and to some degree the chest, I'd still throw in a benching movement.

So... in your humorous senario, I'd say only deadlifting, overhead pressing, squating and benching would probably give you better results than the typical BB workouts printed in muscle and fiction (keep in mind, I'm talking about the average person).

SaiBoT- you're a trip bro. It's always fun to debate someone who, though they may not agree with you, can at least present their opinion in an inteligent manner. Keep it up!

 

[Seattleite]

Any lifts outside of these is probably just a waste of time:

Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Press
Overhead Press (standing)
Bent-Over Rows
Weighted Dips
Chins
and maybe some core work, although I think your core gets enough work from all of the squatting and pulling...

 

[Seattleite]

But you're right, the pec should be trained as one muscle. And doing flat & incline presses and flys is how you train that one muscle properly for best development.

You mean flat presses and dips...

 

[dabuffguy]

THe world just imploded! AHHHHHHHHH!

Though I know you're joking, I think you're closer to the truth than you may think. I think people would be surprised how much benifit they could get if they did nothing but a deadlift and an overhead press.

While the deadlift (IMO) hits up the back, hips, traps, and shoulders, I would also include the squat in with it to fully his the legs.

And while the overhead press hits up the shoulders, traps, and to some degree the chest, I'd still throw in a benching movement.

So... in your humorous senario, I'd say only deadlifting, overhead pressing, squating and benching would probably give you better results than the typical BB workouts printed in muscle and fiction (keep in mind, I'm talking about the average person).

SaiBoT- you're a trip bro. It's always fun to debate someone who, though they may not agree with you, can at least present their opinion in an inteligent manner. Keep it up!

Okay, well I have to agree with this, but here's where I take it a step further.

Scenario:

I do my deadlifts, my squats, by bench, my overheads and my BB rows. All the basic compound movements that are key for solid growth, thickness and gains. They in proven fact proivide th most growth stimulation throughtout the body and you CAN get big just by doing these.

They are taken care of, they are the foundation of my routine.

Then I go and do curls, tricep extensions, leg exstentions, wrist curls, flies, and all the other dinky little nic nat movements on top of my foundational routine.

It can only be more beneficial to the body to do those as well.





I do take issue with the dinks at the gym that think they are gonna get 18" arms by doing 50 sets of curls at 20 different wrist angles. that's a bunch of shit.






Now, lets get back to the topic of pressing.

Sit up straight in your chair, stick your arm straight out, pull it back, put your other hand over your upper pec and push straight forward. Feel how much of the upper pec is involved in the motion. It is definitley getting some stimulation. Now, do the same movement again, but this time press upwards at about 20 degree angle. You can feel the upper portion of the pec is now the key portion of the muscle being contracted and the lower half seems almost uninvolved.



Besides all the back and forth ideas spewing, we all know that the pro bodybuilders do incline pressing. Why would they do that? Wouldn't they be better off just doing more flat pressing? Obviously, the answer is NO. I'm not saying you should design your routine after theirs, but they do the dinky little isolation movements and extra angles because they matter in bodybuilding. They make a difference.

If you are a powerlifter, incline pressing doesn mean anything for you. Stick to shoulder pressing and flat bench. If you are a body builder, it counts and it makes a difference in your body's development.

 

[dabuffguy]

Any lifts outside of these is probably just a waste of time:

Squats
Deadlifts
Bench Press
Overhead Press (standing)
Bent-Over Rows
Weighted Dips
Chins
and maybe some core work, although I think your core gets enough work from all of the squatting and pulling...

If they are a waste of time, then what is Jay Cutler, Dexter Jackson, Ronnie Coleman, Dorian Yates and Kevin Levrone (and 100's of other IFBB pros) doing in the gym wasting all their precious time doing isolation work?



If you can tell me why and how they are wasting their time dong curls, extensions and raises over various types, I'll admit I was wrong and give you 10,000 K.

 

[Seattleite]

Sit up straight in your chair, stick your arm straight out, pull it back, put your other hand over your upper pec and push straight forward. Feel how much of the upper pec is involved in the motion. It is definitley getting some stimulation. Now, do the same movement again, but this time press upwards at about 20 degree angle. You can feel the upper portion of the pec is now the key portion of the muscle being contracted and the lower half seems almost uninvolved.

Changing the angle of a lift can cause a shift in emphasis on the fibers of certain muscle groups, mainly those with multiple heads such as the biceps, pectoralis, deltoid, etc. HOWEVER that emphasis will NOT result in any variance in the growth or contractile strength of that muscle, with SOME exceptions.

Take the deltoids for example...

The deltoid can be effected in this way because it has three heads, each of which is responsible for a different anatomical function. The anterior head performs shoulder flexion and transverse abduction, along with internal rotation, and it assists with transverse flexion. The posterior head performs extension, transverse abduction and external rotation. The medial head aids the other two.

This is a rare exception however, because not only do each of the three heads have a different origin and share a common insertion on the humerus, but they perform different functions. That's the key here. Same goes for the pectorals, though in a different fashion.

The pectoralis major does have two heads. It differs from the deltoid in that both heads perform the same functions.

The sternal head performs transverse flexion, transverse adduction, internal rotation, adduction, and extension of the shoulder joint, and assists the scapula with downward rotation, depression, and abduction. The clavicular head performs transverse flexion, transverse adduction, internal rotation, adduction, flexion, and abduction of the shoulder joint.

The differences are negligible between the two, and in fact, the only differences are that the clavicular head aids in flexion and abduction of the shoulder joint.

BUT, if your anterior and medial delts have any kind of strength, that involvement will be minimal, and in fact if you do any kind of pressing movements, the recruitment will be no different regardless of angle.

Any difference noted between incline and flat pressing movements is sheerly a result of the pectoralis minor, which is responsible for scapular abduction.

 

[keasbey]

i have a theory... Big chest = bench press and time.. and most people who want a big chest havent put in the time yet required and want to shorten that time by using magic lifts that will become a short cut.. thats my idea atleast

like if u lifted for 5 solid years and did like the 5x5 program youd assume the person would have a pretty solid chest right?

 

[SaiBoT]

THe world just imploded! AHHHHHHHHH!

Though I know you're joking, I think you're closer to the truth than you may think. I think people would be surprised how much benifit they could get if they did nothing but a deadlift and an overhead press.

While the deadlift (IMO) hits up the back, hips, traps, and shoulders, I would also include the squat in with it to fully his the legs.

And while the overhead press hits up the shoulders, traps, and to some degree the chest, I'd still throw in a benching movement.

So... in your humorous senario, I'd say only deadlifting, overhead pressing, squating and benching would probably give you better results than the typical BB workouts printed in muscle and fiction (keep in mind, I'm talking about the average person).

SaiBoT- you're a trip bro. It's always fun to debate someone who, though they may not agree with you, can at least present their opinion in an inteligent manner. Keep it up!

Lol I was just taking it to the extreme... Anyway some "isolation" is needed... Andy Bolton does shoulder rises, Ed Cohan does cable triceps extensions, Louie Simmons also includes california presses and close grip overhead presses to better stimulate tricep lateral head, Charles Poliquin includes reverse grip and fly moves on his protocols, Bill Starr includes lateral rises for strength,(this one goes to the Seattleite--->) Pudzianowsky does inclined benches.

Those guys got famous because they know their shit not because they went to the gym to fuck around.

Another one: rotator cuff exercises are also needed and they are considered "isolation" moves.

Taking the flyes as an example: those don't allow you to lift a big weight because of the line of force is not the same as it is on a press, by doing flyes you remove the tension from the triceps and give it to the pecs, pecs alone can't lift as much as if they had the tricep involvment. And also by doing flyes your arms will be farther away from your core, thus decreasing the ability to lift a big weight, nevertheless your pecs will get stronger and grow because they are being stimulated on their weakest point (which by that I mean full estension at shoulder height).

By no mean I'm saying that "isolation" work is the best. If I had to choose between single joint and multi-joint, Obviously I would stick to the tested and aproved big compounds. Nevertheless if you wanna unleash your truly potential, you have to include those single joint as part of the whole picture.

 

[Seattleite]

(this one goes to the Seattleite--->) Pudzianowsky does inclined benches.

I have no problem with incline presses. It's a great exercise for the shoulders and chest. I just take issue with the viewpoint that you can somehow grow your upper chest apart from the middle or lower part of your chest. If you want to focus on the chest, do flat benching and dips. If you want to focus on the shoulders, do overhead presses. An incline press is a happy marriage between the flat and overhead presses, but it is not good as flat pressing for the chest and its not as good as overhead pressing for the shoulders. That is my only point.

 

[SaiBoT]

I have no problem with incline presses. It's a great exercise for the shoulders and chest. I just take issue with the viewpoint that you can somehow grow your upper chest apart from the middle or lower part of your chest. If you want to focus on the chest, do flat benching and dips. If you want to focus on the shoulders, do overhead presses. An incline press is a happy marriage between the flat and overhead presses, but it is not good as flat pressing for the chest and its not as good as overhead pressing for the shoulders. That is my only point.

I got you bro Actually today I did bench presses, low incline Y flyes and inclined dumbell presses. It was a good workout... usually I stick to bench and inclined presses, but I need the flyes for the stretch and the pump, once in a while keeps me from boredom.