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In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

2Thick

Elite Mentor
Platinum
EF Logger
In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man. This is not in defence of Christianity because organized religion is not Christian. It is a heretical offshoot of Christianity’s rottenly corrupt predecessor. Now back to the topic at hand.

There is highly disturbing trend of anti-Jesus propaganda these days. It is a dangerous time for all good men when Jesus is the pit of a joke or the target of ridicule. This leads to the obvious conclusion of a concerted group of people who hate the virtues and moral lessons taught by the MAN known as Jesus Christ. These wicked people have everything to gain from tearing down the true goodness of Jesus’ teachings in order to inject their vial ideology into the open wound of North America’s dwindling morality.

Jesus, the MAN, taught us to be kind to each other. He taught us not to judge hastily. He taught us that hypocrisy is one of the worst things a man can do to himself and humanity (i.e. Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone). He taught us to help those who are weak but not to support them unconditionally. Instead, he taught us to teach skills that make people self-sufficient. He warned us of those who do not want what is best for humanity. Those same rotten people are now running our governments. This is not because all men are bad, but rather because the majority of us (who are good) have stood idly by and done nothing.

The bashing of Jesus, the MAN, should end immediately, even if the bashing of today’s perverted interpretation of Christianity continues. Mohammed and Moses were messenger boys at best and did not contribute to humanity comined as Jesus did in his short time on earth.

As a side note, I am not a religious person (to say the least) and I detest organized religions (**understatement alert**).
 
Well said 2Thick. I wish I could add to this, but you hit it all.
 
i see alot of jesus t shirts here and there......i dont understand them


i even saw a jesus action figure?

wtf with that?
 
Ummm...

Jesus was teaching a return to core Jewish values. hence the reference to him as "rabbi" in the Bible.
 
2Thick said:

Jesus, the MAN, taught us to be kind to each other. He taught us not to judge hastily.
In all honesty I have to say I find these comments a total surprise coming from you. From what I have seen of you here, you make no effort to live up to these, so I find it nearly impossible to think you really deep in your heart believe this except for passing sentimental moments. I really do find you to be a mean spirited and judgemental person, perhaps the most so except for the few over the top people who get banned. I have to say this is a real surprise. Wow. I am stunned by this post.
 
Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Generic MALE said:

In all honesty I have to say I find these comments a total surprise coming from you. From what I have seen of you here, you make no effort to live up to these, so I find it nearly impossible to think you really deep in your heart believe this except for passing sentimental moments.

Internet does not equal reality. Think about that for a while.
 
2Thick said:


If those values were so great, why did he make sure to separate himself from them? Why did those same Jews with those same values kill Jesus?

Jesus was preaching "Jew first, roman subject" second.

Some Jews had develoepd a decent lifestyle due to a comfortable relationship with Rome (Jewish knowldgeof trade routes and the area made them somewhat valuable to Rome)

Because the Jews resisted so fiercely Rome agreed to give them limited abaility to porsper. So long as they gave Rome fealty, Rome let them be, for the most part.

Rome was using the classic colonial "divide and conquer" trick - give some Jews power over others, and they will never unite against us. (Rome). Jews with power had a decent lifestyle for a conquered people and didn't want to lose it.

Jesus was trying to tell Jews to be Jews first, not in bed with Rome. This was at the heart of the shnanigans in the temple, which ultimately got him killed. Those jews that Rome allowed to prosper were not about to let a growing movment threaten their stature.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


Jesus was preaching "Jew first, roman subject" second.

Some Jews had develoepd a decent lifestyle due to a comfortable relationship with Rome (Jewish knowldgeof trade routes and the area made them somewhat valuable to Rome)

Because the Jews resisted so fiercely Rome agreed to give them limited abaility to porsper. So long as they gave Rome fealty, Rome let them be, for the most part.

Rome was using the classic colonial "divide and conquer" trick - give some Jews power over others, and they will never unite against us. (Rome). Jews with power had a decent lifestyle for a conquered people and didn't want to lose it.

Jesus was trying to tell Jews to be Jews first, not in bed with Rome. This was at the heart of the shnanigans in the temple, which ultimately got him killed. Those jews that Rome allowed to prosper were not about to let a growing movment threaten their stature.

I am happy that you agree that the Jews killed Jesus. Case closed.
 
Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

2Thick said:


Internet does not equal reality. Think about that for a while.


This is true, but after X thousand posts one gets a picture of the person. Of course it is never complete - hence we can see something as uncharacteristic as this post. I mean in all honesty, you surely don't think anyone...and I mean anyone who knows you through this board will consider nominating you for the Mother Theresa of the year award. I mean the extreme number of rash, mean and derogatory insults fired at others here is evidence that the persona you present here is not either a quickly passing mood and most likely not just a stage act.
 
2Thick said:


I am happy that you agree that the Jews killed Jesus. Case closed.

LMAO. what case?

The Jewish killing of Jesus was not a ringing endorsement of tehir non-acceptance of him. All the original apostles and disciples were Jewish.

WHat is your point?
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


LMAO. what case?

The Jewish killing of Jesus was not a ringing endorsement of tehir non-acceptance of him. All the original apostles and disciples were Jewish.

WHat is your point?

This is a thread celebrating Jesus, the Man.

We will probably continue our lingering debate many years into the future, so I will leave it at that on this thread.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Generic MALE said:



This is true, but after X thousand posts one gets a picture of the person. Of course it is never complete - hence we can see something as uncharacteristic as this post. I mean in all honesty, you surely don't think anyone...and I mean anyone who knows you through this board will consider nominating you for the Mother Theresa of the year award. I mean the extreme number of rash, mean and derogatory insults fired at others here is evidence that the persona you present here is not either a quickly passing mood and most likely not just a stage act.

You should really read all of my 21,000 posts. You would see that I have played every character in the book.
 
2Thick said:


This is a thread celebrating Jesus, the Man.

.

Jesus the Man was a devoted, practicing, religious Jew.

I just want to make sure that this is conveyed as part of the celebration.
 
The Jews were AFRAID of Jesus's teachings and how his following was growing.
Risking as Matt Metioned thier limited governing abilities
with Rome..

Same with John the Baptist sorta..

He taught that his teachings were not replacing the Pentatu and that the jewish law was to be followed.
 
curling said:
Great post 2thick. And the reason Jesus the man was so Great was because He was God walking on earth as a man.

God was a Jew?

That should put a lot of these Middle East problems to rest, huh?
 
Even the Muslims admit that the Jews(Abraham) were Gods first Choosen people.

I guess they think he changed his mind a bit later and picked them or something.
 
Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Generic MALE said:

In all honesty I have to say I find these comments a total surprise coming from you. From what I have seen of you here, you make no effort to live up to these, so I find it nearly impossible to think you really deep in your heart believe this except for passing sentimental moments. I really do find you to be a mean spirited and judgemental person, perhaps the most so except for the few over the top people who get banned. I have to say this is a real surprise. Wow. I am stunned by this post.

I don't think there is anything surprising about him posting this. Unless I am misinterpreting it 2Thick is saying that the principals he preached are good, but everything supernatural about it is bullshit. I think he has been saying this in one form or another all along.
 
2Thick said:
The bashing of Jesus, the MAN, should end immediately, even if the bashing of today’s perverted interpretation of Christianity continues.

In all respects a solid post. However, i don't see people bashing jesus himself. There really isnt much to bash. People bash the religion or those people that claim to represent the religion. I just havent seen people saying "damn, that jesus was a jerk!"
 
Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Originally posted by Tiervexx
I don't think there is anything surprising about him posting this. Unless I am misinterpreting it 2Thick is saying that the principals he preached are good, but everything supernatural about it is bullshit. I think he has been saying this in one form or another all along.

Well if you don't believe in the SuperNatural part of it, why bother
with following the pricipals ?

I mean, in todays world, being good is much harder than being a jerk right?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Y_Lifter said:


Well if you don't believe in the SuperNatural part of it, why bother
with following the pricipals ?

I mean, in todays world, being good is much harder than being a jerk right?


great point there
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Y_Lifter said:


Well if you don't believe in the SuperNatural part of it, why bother
with following the pricipals ?

I mean, in todays world, being good is much harder than being a jerk right?

So you are admitting that when ever you do something nice it is not because of any virtue in your own heart but only out of fear for yourself?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Tiervexx said:


So you are admitting that when ever you do something nice it is not because of any virtue in your own heart but only out of fear for yourself?

Tiervex if we just evolved from some fish why would we have any virtue in our heart? I mean do fish have virtue?
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

curling said:


Tiervex if we just evolved from some fish why would we have any virtue in our heart? I mean do fish have virtue?

best post ever
 
2 Thick great post

when I see the lack of virtue, out there
and the lack of "natural affection" towards others, and for the earth as a whole

it makes me sad sometimes
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Y_Lifter said:


Well if you don't believe in the SuperNatural part of it, why bother
with following the pricipals ?


what a stupid fucking statement...use your head man.

why do i have to believe that Mary was impregnated by the spirit of God, or that Jesus brought people back from the dead, etc.....? why cant He just be an intelligent, compassionate individual with something great to say and the balls to say it? the rest of the bullshit just makes the Bible a nice story for everyone to read.

G.S.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

2Thick said:


You should really read all of my 21,000 posts. You would see that I have played every character in the book.

every character? :rainbow:












hehehe. :D
 
Belief in His divinity is a matter or faith, some have it, some dont. It is ridiculous to challenge the way he taught or conducted himself during His life. In my humble estimation, Jesus would have had to have a divine nature to live and teach as He did.
 
what a stupid fucking statement...use your head man.

why do i have to believe that Mary was impregnated by the spirit of God, or that Jesus brought people back from the dead, etc.....? why cant He just be an intelligent, compassionate individual with something great to say and the balls to say it? the rest of the bullshit just makes the Bible a nice story for everyone to read.

Your name fits you dumbass...
 
2Thick said:
In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man. This is not in defence of Christianity because organized religion is not Christian. It is a heretical offshoot of Christianity’s rottenly corrupt predecessor. Now back to the topic at hand.

There is highly disturbing trend of anti-Jesus propaganda these days. It is a dangerous time for all good men when Jesus is the pit of a joke or the target of ridicule. This leads to the obvious conclusion of a concerted group of people who hate the virtues and moral lessons taught by the MAN known as Jesus Christ. These wicked people have everything to gain from tearing down the true goodness of Jesus’ teachings in order to inject their vial ideology into the open wound of North America’s dwindling morality.

Jesus, the MAN, taught us to be kind to each other. He taught us not to judge hastily. He taught us that hypocrisy is one of the worst things a man can do to himself and humanity (i.e. Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone). He taught us to help those who are weak but not to support them unconditionally. Instead, he taught us to teach skills that make people self-sufficient. He warned us of those who do not want what is best for humanity. Those same rotten people are now running our governments. This is not because all men are bad, but rather because the majority of us (who are good) have stood idly by and done nothing.

The bashing of Jesus, the MAN, should end immediately, even if the bashing of today’s perverted interpretation of Christianity continues. Mohammed and Moses were messenger boys at best and did not contribute to humanity comined as Jesus did in his short time on earth.

As a side note, I am not a religious person (to say the least) and I detest organized religions (**understatement alert**).
What would Jesus think of the Bushbarians??? :confused:


Never mind, think I know.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

bignate73 said:


every character? :rainbow:












hehehe. :D

Maybe you missed this quote..
"If I were gay, I would not want someone with a big penis" 2Thick


I think he clearly states he is not queer.....but if he was, he would not like a big dong...... :D


Nice post by the way.......
 
2Thick said:
Jesus, the MAN, taught us to be kind to each other. He taught us not to judge hastily. He taught us that hypocrisy is one of the worst things a man can do to himself and humanity (i.e. Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone). He taught us to help those who are weak but not to support them unconditionally. Instead, he taught us to teach skills that make people self-sufficient. He warned us of those who do not want what is best for humanity. Those same rotten people are now running our governments. This is not because all men are bad, but rather because the majority of us (who are good) have stood idly by and done nothing.

this is the good part for me, my old boss use to tell me something along the lines of this post. he would say it really didnt matter if the bible was true but it mattered that people followed the teachings, that made a difference. i wish more peole would at least live by the teachings.
 
Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

spongebob said:


this is the good part for me, my old boss use to tell me something along the lines of this post. he would say it really didnt matter if the bible was true but it mattered that people followed the teachings, that made a difference. i wish more peole would at least live by the teachings.




So true...btw love the little girl in the avatar!

Alot of the stories in the bible were only ment to teach us things. Such as Mary being pregnant and having Jesus. It showed us to love and trust and have faith in God and she did just that by being inpregnanted and having the baby.
 
2Thick said:


If those values were so great, why did he make sure to separate himself from them? Why did those same Jews with those same values kill Jesus?


depends on your beliefs as far as prophecy goes...
 
Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

primetime21 said:


In all respects a solid post. However, i don't see people bashing jesus himself. There really isnt much to bash. People bash the religion or those people that claim to represent the religion. I just havent seen people saying "damn, that jesus was a jerk!"


actually.. if you go to that atheistworld.com site that max guy used to promote on this site you see a lot of people bashing jesus' teachings.

there are some good arguments on that site, but theres a lot of crap on there that anyone really that knows either the bible or knows other theories very well at can see right through.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:
Ummm...

Jesus was teaching a return to core Jewish values. hence the reference to him as "rabbi" in the Bible.


yes and no... (IMO of course)

read the sermon on the mount...

cross colossians with levitican laws and basically anything gen exo lev numbers and deutero say...

id say more to 'fulfill' the prophecies of the old testament...
 
2Thick said:
In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man. This is not in defence of Christianity because organized religion is not Christian. It is a heretical offshoot of Christianity’s rottenly corrupt predecessor. Now back to the topic at hand.

There is highly disturbing trend of anti-Jesus propaganda these days. It is a dangerous time for all good men when Jesus is the pit of a joke or the target of ridicule. This leads to the obvious conclusion of a concerted group of people who hate the virtues and moral lessons taught by the MAN known as Jesus Christ. These wicked people have everything to gain from tearing down the true goodness of Jesus’ teachings in order to inject their vial ideology into the open wound of North America’s dwindling morality.

Jesus, the MAN, taught us to be kind to each other. He taught us not to judge hastily. He taught us that hypocrisy is one of the worst things a man can do to himself and humanity (i.e. Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone). He taught us to help those who are weak but not to support them unconditionally. Instead, he taught us to teach skills that make people self-sufficient. He warned us of those who do not want what is best for humanity. Those same rotten people are now running our governments. This is not because all men are bad, but rather because the majority of us (who are good) have stood idly by and done nothing.

The bashing of Jesus, the MAN, should end immediately, even if the bashing of today’s perverted interpretation of Christianity continues. Mohammed and Moses were messenger boys at best and did not contribute to humanity comined as Jesus did in his short time on earth.

As a side note, I am not a religious person (to say the least) and I detest organized religions (**understatement alert**).

2thick our semantics may be somewhat different, but i really appreciate the message of this post. k bro.:)
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


God was a Jew?

That should put a lot of these Middle East problems to rest, huh?

Matt, come on now... i know youre familiar with the "created in His image" clause:rolleyes:




(MATT)this is not directed at you borly, so dont take it personal...:)


Im sure that me and curling would not see eye to eye on some things, the same as the rest of you and I... but he's constant... you all may not agree with his faith, but the reason that people like curling come across to people like they do is because of the subject of this thread. Jesus bashing. Its taboo to talk about Jesus as anything but a stepping stone for the development of mankind and people completley disregard anything he said as being mindless banterings. IMO even a broken clock is right twice a day. I see the positive things in what others believe as far as religion, faith, prayer, meditation and anything metaphysical. People with the beliefs of me and curling are a minority on this board and people who are willing to stand up for what they believe in in the face of hostility are even fewer. Jesus threads and anti Jesus threads so often turn into hate mail exchanges (myself included, im no better than anyone else) that its easy to become obstinant at the scent of the word Bible, or anything remotely religious.

This, like in anything else clouds the real (secular) part of Jesus/Biblical teachings. If everyone lived by things such as "Whatever you do work at it with all your heart as if working for the Lord and not for man", "Love is patient, love is kind", Greater love has no man than this that he lay down his life for his friends, we would all be in a much better place.

Think about the application in our daily lives of the story of the Talents... what a great parable... (matthew 25:14 is where it starts)...
 
curling said:
Great post 2thick. And the reason Jesus the man was so Great was because He was God walking on earth as a man.


Bravo! Dazzling display of Southern Baptist logic.


God was God. Jesus was Jesus. Jesus was the son of God. Jesus was not God himself.

Don't you even read the bible that you try to beat people down with? If Jesus was God, then who the hell is the person he walked around refering to My Father as? Wait. That must be God's Daddy. After all, God gotta have parents too huh?
 
Agreed 2T...An incredible being.Embodies everything we should all strive to be like.

Can't wait to see 'The Passion' to see his story brought to life.With Mel Gibson behind it,you know it will be breath-taking.The trailer alone brought me to tears.
 
Why did those same Jews with those same values kill Jesus?

It wasn’t the general populous of the time that despised him. He was pretty much a political antagonist. He threatened the Jews who were in control at the time financially. Remember what he did when they were selling stuff in the temple? They sold him out to the Romans and you know the rest.

Contrary to popular belief Jesus was NOT skinny. He did NOT have long hair. That adaptation came much later. He was of average height, short hair, and of an athletic / muscular build.

BTW I am an atheist but accept the fact that someone did live once who was called Jesus. He was a philosopher who had many beliefs. He tried to steer humanity toward his beliefs. He said he was the son of God. At the time when people still thought the world was flat, maybe this was the only way to gain that extra credibility for his goals.

The jews conspired to kill Jesus. It was the Romans who did it. There were many involved in this conspiracy, especially Mr. Iscariot.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

curling said:


Tiervex if we just evolved from some fish why would we have any virtue in our heart? I mean do fish have virtue?

Another example of your wonderful logic.

There is enough time for MANY changes since we were fish.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

curling said:


Tiervex if we just evolved from some fish why would we have any virtue in our heart? I mean do fish have virtue?

,,
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Originally posted by Gaydolf Shitler

why do i have to believe that Mary was impregnated by the spirit of God, or that Jesus brought people back from the dead, etc.....? why cant He just be an intelligent, compassionate individual with something great to say and the balls to say it? the rest of the bullshit just makes the Bible a nice story for everyone to read.

G.S.

Because Jesus, the intelligent, compassionate individual with something great to say, said these things were the truth.

Duh !
 
juicedmullet said:


read the sermon on the mount...

cross colossians with levitican laws and basically anything gen exo lev numbers and deutero say...

id say more to 'fulfill' the prophecies of the old testament...

I am sure you'd say that. You'd be wrong. Anything Paul wrote....there's a reason scholars call Christiantiy the "Pauline Church". His tone changes deopending on who he was writing to and what their belief systems were. Paul was a used-Messiah salesman.

I don't take any of this personally. What I do take offense to is the tremendous number of minds closed and lives lost in the name of something that very few people understand even 1% of. To that end, the lights must come on.


Much of the OT was changed after Jesus had been dead a few hundred years so that the prophecies fit. The idea of fulfilling prophecies is bizarre. Virgin Birth was added to Christianity hundreds of years after Jesus died, for example. There are hundreds of instances of this type of modification to the relgion, and then editing of "prophecies" to fit, if applicable.

Christianity as understood topday (Catholic church especially) was hashed out at the Council of Nicaea in 325. (I believe it was 325; as it happened 1700 years ago, my memory has faded some). For example, modern day Christian holy sites in the Middle East were selected by the emperor Constantine's mother.

And on and on. It was made up as it went along, with the prophecies retrofitted.

As to Jesus the man, he was an observant Jew. He taught Jewish traditional law. The Jewish philosophy has served jews well, but never gained mainstream acceptance until it was called "Christianty" (or Islam, in another version) and watered down.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:

I am sure you'd say that. You'd be wrong. Anything Paul wrote....there's a reason scholars call Christiantiy the "Pauline Church". His tone changes deopending on who he was writing to and what their belief systems were. Paul was a used-Messiah salesman.

True...do people really think Jesus ate pork or even told his followers "sure, go ahead and eat the pig."?
 
curling said:
Great post 2thick. And the reason Jesus the man was so Great was because He was God walking on earth as a man.

If Jesus was God:

1.God is All-Knowing...but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgement, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32, and Matthew 24:36). But God knows all. Jesus himself admitted he did not know when the day of judgement would be. This is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and therefore...not God.

2.God is All-Powerful...but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he admitted his power was not his own but derived from God. "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..."(John 5:19). "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgement is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30). This is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and therefore...not God.

3.God does not have a God...but Jesus did have a God
God is the ultimate judge and refuge. He does not call upon nor pray to any others. Jesus, however acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17). He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46). If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?" But that would be pure nonsense. When praying the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4) was Jesus praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt. 26:36-39). Was he praying to himself? Again, clear proof that Jesus is not God.

4.According to the Bible, God is an invisible spirit...but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, this could not be so with God. "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18). Jesus said, "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." (John 5:37). He also said, "God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24) and, "...for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39). Clear proof that Jesus is not God.

5.More proof
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal (one and the same), comes again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as 'good master' in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Jesus also drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." (John 8:42). Jesus gave evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God, when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deferrence to affirming the will of another, gives clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore...not God.

This also works to dispell the doctrine of the trinity. God is one, not 3.
"Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad."
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" Deut 6:4
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD;" (Mark 12:29)
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


I am sure you'd say that. You'd be wrong. Anything Paul wrote....there's a reason scholars call Christiantiy the "Pauline Church". His tone changes deopending on who he was writing to and what their belief systems were. Paul was a used-Messiah salesman.

I don't take any of this personally. What I do take offense to is the tremendous number of minds closed and lives lost in the name of something that very few people understand even 1% of. To that end, the lights must come on.


Much of the OT was changed after Jesus had been dead a few hundred years so that the prophecies fit. The idea of fulfilling prophecies is bizarre. Virgin Birth was added to Christianity hundreds of years after Jesus died, for example. There are hundreds of instances of this type of modification to the relgion, and then editing of "prophecies" to fit, if applicable.

Christianity as understood topday (Catholic church especially) was hashed out at the Council of Nicaea in 325. (I believe it was 325; as it happened 1700 years ago, my memory has faded some). For example, modern day Christian holy sites in the Middle East were selected by the emperor Constantine's mother.

And on and on. It was made up as it went along, with the prophecies retrofitted.

As to Jesus the man, he was an observant Jew. He taught Jewish traditional law. The Jewish philosophy has served jews well, but never gained mainstream acceptance until it was called "Christianty" (or Islam, in another version) and watered down.

Good post
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

curling said:


Tiervex if we just evolved from some fish why would we have any virtue in our heart? I mean do fish have virtue?

I'm certainly not claiming this to be the answer but it is a distinct possibility that what we consider virtue simply evolved over the course of human history.

Evolutionary psychology has some interesting explanations for how we came to have cognition of "good" and "evil"...

Just something to think about.... which i have a feeling you probably have not considered.
 
ceo said:
I guess I get no arguements about my "Jesus is not God" post.

All you did was take Scripture out of context. Amateurish...

That's probably by why no one argued it.

either that or, you used the limits of man's logic against something conceived of as "all powerful". How could an all powerful being be governed by our laws of logic?

So people ignored that post. They were smart to do so.

You'll never be able to disprove the existence of God. His creators ensured it. :)
 
ceo said:
I guess I get no arguements about my "Jesus is not God" post.

I happen to agree. But since its hard enough for "god backers" to prove the existence of god, it would be even harder for them to prove that jesus was god.

I am far from an expert when it comes to christianity, but i do not my share of jewish history and law. And according to jewish law we are waiting for messiah (savior) to finally come and save us. My understanding is that according to christians jesus was the savior. (correct me if i am wrong).

THe problem i have is that according to jewish law when the messiah arrives hate and jealousy and other bad emotions will disappear. God will eliminate illness and hunger and other worldly problems. To my knowledge, this hasnt occurred yet, which is why jews don't believe jesus to be the messiah. And many of the accomplishments outlined in the bible that the messiah was supposed to bring about did not happen.

As for jesus being god, there was never any mention in the bible that the messiah would be god. In fact, as you have mentioned the bible (all i know is the first testament) says repeatedly that god is not a man. So it would be contradictory to believe that god would then become a man.

But then again this is all based on some mythical ideas and notions and open to MANY interpretations.
 
2Thick said:
Jesus, the MAN, taught us to be kind to each other. He taught us not to judge hastily. He taught us that hypocrisy is one of the worst things a man can do to himself and humanity (i.e. Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone). He taught us to help those who are weak but not to support them unconditionally. Instead, he taught us to teach skills that make people self-sufficient. He warned us of those who do not want what is best for humanity....

Mohammed and Moses were messenger boys at best and did not contribute to humanity comined as Jesus did in his short time on earth.

2Thick - I agree with most of your statements and I'm with you 100% in your feelings for organised religion. But I do have issues with your last statement.

Mohammed was teaching these same beliefs 500 years before Jesus was born. Moses was teaching them 3000 years before Jesus was born. They were not messenger boys.
 
MattTheSkywalker said:


All you did was take Scripture out of context. Amateurish...

That's probably by why no one argued it.

either that or, you used the limits of man's logic against something conceived of as "all powerful". How could an all powerful being be governed by our laws of logic?

So people ignored that post. They were smart to do so.

You'll never be able to disprove the existence of God. His creators ensured it. :)

By all means then "Mr. Professional"...correct me, put my use of scriptures back into their proper context. Shouldn't be too hard for a scholar.

Oh, and I never tried (nor would I ever try) to disprove the existence of God...just that Jesus is not God. This was blatently obvious in my post however.
 
Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

hellboy said:
Mohammed was teaching these same beliefs 500 years before Jesus was born.

You have your dates wrong. Mohammed was born 500 year AFTER Jesus.


Moses was teaching them 3000 years before Jesus was born. They were not messenger boys.

Wrong again. Moses was bron around 1575 BC. And he delivered God's message.
 
Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

2Thick said:


Wrong again. Moses was bron around 1575 BC. And he delivered God's message.

Have you ever studied the bible? And while he did deliver gods message, he also did a lot more than just that.
 
Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

2Thick said:


You have your dates wrong. Mohammed was born 500 year AFTER Jesus.




Wrong again. Moses was bron around 1575 BC. And he delivered God's message.


You sure about Mohammed? I'll check the dates... Ack. Yep I got that one wrong. Anyway I still stand by the fact that they were both more than messenger boys.

Moses freed the israelites from Pharoh's enslavement and started what is now the Jewish nation. Hardly the actions of a mere messenger boy.

Mohammed started what is currently the world's largest and most practiced religion. Once again more than a messenger boy.

Both taught many of the same tenets that Jesus taught. I don't see how Jesus was any more - or less - influential than either of these men. Or Buddah for that matter.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

primetime21 said:


Have you ever studied the bible? And while he did deliver gods message, he also did a lot more than just that.

I am not a theologian and I do not care to be.

He did this and that but his important contribution was being the subject of a Charleton Heston movie.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

hellboy said:



Mohammed started what is currently the world's largest and most practiced religion. Once again more than a messenger boy.


Christianity has 50% more followers then the next major religion which is islam and more then twice as many as the third which is hinduism
 
If you love the messages in the new testament of the bible than you should thank the roman emperor Constantine the Great.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

hellboy said:

Mohammed started what is currently the world's largest and most practiced religion. Once again more than a messenger boy.


You got your info mixed up. Islam is the world's fastest growing religion but they got a long way to go before passing Christianity.
 
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