In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

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Why did those same Jews with those same values kill Jesus?

It wasn’t the general populous of the time that despised him. He was pretty much a political antagonist. He threatened the Jews who were in control at the time financially. Remember what he did when they were selling stuff in the temple? They sold him out to the Romans and you know the rest.

Contrary to popular belief Jesus was NOT skinny. He did NOT have long hair. That adaptation came much later. He was of average height, short hair, and of an athletic / muscular build.

BTW I am an atheist but accept the fact that someone did live once who was called Jesus. He was a philosopher who had many beliefs. He tried to steer humanity toward his beliefs. He said he was the son of God. At the time when people still thought the world was flat, maybe this was the only way to gain that extra credibility for his goals.

The jews conspired to kill Jesus. It was the Romans who did it. There were many involved in this conspiracy, especially Mr. Iscariot.

 

[Tiervexx]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Tiervex if we just evolved from some fish why would we have any virtue in our heart? I mean do fish have virtue?

Another example of your wonderful logic.

There is enough time for MANY changes since we were fish.

 

[Y_lifter]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Tiervex if we just evolved from some fish why would we have any virtue in our heart? I mean do fish have virtue?

,,

 

[Y_lifter]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Originally posted by Gaydolf Shitler

why do i have to believe that Mary was impregnated by the spirit of God, or that Jesus brought people back from the dead, etc.....? why cant He just be an intelligent, compassionate individual with something great to say and the balls to say it? the rest of the bullshit just makes the Bible a nice story for everyone to read.

G.S.

Because Jesus, the intelligent, compassionate individual with something great to say, said these things were the truth.

Duh !

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

read the sermon on the mount...

cross colossians with levitican laws and basically anything gen exo lev numbers and deutero say...

id say more to 'fulfill' the prophecies of the old testament...

I am sure you'd say that. You'd be wrong. Anything Paul wrote....there's a reason scholars call Christiantiy the "Pauline Church". His tone changes deopending on who he was writing to and what their belief systems were. Paul was a used-Messiah salesman.

I don't take any of this personally. What I do take offense to is the tremendous number of minds closed and lives lost in the name of something that very few people understand even 1% of. To that end, the lights must come on.


Much of the OT was changed after Jesus had been dead a few hundred years so that the prophecies fit. The idea of fulfilling prophecies is bizarre. Virgin Birth was added to Christianity hundreds of years after Jesus died, for example. There are hundreds of instances of this type of modification to the relgion, and then editing of "prophecies" to fit, if applicable.

Christianity as understood topday (Catholic church especially) was hashed out at the Council of Nicaea in 325. (I believe it was 325; as it happened 1700 years ago, my memory has faded some). For example, modern day Christian holy sites in the Middle East were selected by the emperor Constantine's mother.

And on and on. It was made up as it went along, with the prophecies retrofitted.

As to Jesus the man, he was an observant Jew. He taught Jewish traditional law. The Jewish philosophy has served jews well, but never gained mainstream acceptance until it was called "Christianty" (or Islam, in another version) and watered down.

 

[CipherLock]

(I believe it was 325; as it happened 1700 years ago, my memory has faded some

Holy Sheep Shit Batman, how old are you?

 

[ceo]

I am sure you'd say that. You'd be wrong. Anything Paul wrote....there's a reason scholars call Christiantiy the "Pauline Church". His tone changes deopending on who he was writing to and what their belief systems were. Paul was a used-Messiah salesman.

True...do people really think Jesus ate pork or even told his followers "sure, go ahead and eat the pig."?

 

[ceo]

Great post 2thick. And the reason Jesus the man was so Great was because He was God walking on earth as a man.

If Jesus was God:

1.God is All-Knowing...but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgement, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32, and Matthew 24:36). But God knows all. Jesus himself admitted he did not know when the day of judgement would be. This is clear proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and therefore...not God.

2.God is All-Powerful...but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he admitted his power was not his own but derived from God. "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..."(John 5:19). "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgement is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30). This is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful, and therefore...not God.

3.God does not have a God...but Jesus did have a God
God is the ultimate judge and refuge. He does not call upon nor pray to any others. Jesus, however acknowledged that there was one whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." (John 20:17). He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46). If Jesus were God, then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken me?" But that would be pure nonsense. When praying the Lord's prayer (Luke 11:2-4) was Jesus praying to himself? When in the garden of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." (Matt. 26:36-39). Was he praying to himself? Again, clear proof that Jesus is not God.

4.According to the Bible, God is an invisible spirit...but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, this could not be so with God. "No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18). Jesus said, "Ye have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His shape." (John 5:37). He also said, "God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:24) and, "...for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." (Luke 24:39). Clear proof that Jesus is not God.

5.More proof
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not equal (one and the same), comes again from the mouth of Jesus himself who said in John 14:28, "My Father is greater than I." When someone referred to him as 'good master' in Luke 18:19, Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God..." Jesus also drew clear distinctions between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." (John 8:42). Jesus gave evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his equality with God, when he said in Luke 22:42, "not my will but thine be done" and in John 5:30, "I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." That Jesus would admit that he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than himself, and that he would negate his own will in deferrence to affirming the will of another, gives clear proof that Jesus is not the Supreme One and therefore...not God.

This also works to dispell the doctrine of the trinity. God is one, not 3.
"Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad."
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" Deut 6:4
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The LORD our God is one LORD;" (Mark 12:29)

 

[Tiervexx]

I am sure you'd say that. You'd be wrong. Anything Paul wrote....there's a reason scholars call Christiantiy the "Pauline Church". His tone changes deopending on who he was writing to and what their belief systems were. Paul was a used-Messiah salesman.

I don't take any of this personally. What I do take offense to is the tremendous number of minds closed and lives lost in the name of something that very few people understand even 1% of. To that end, the lights must come on.


Much of the OT was changed after Jesus had been dead a few hundred years so that the prophecies fit. The idea of fulfilling prophecies is bizarre. Virgin Birth was added to Christianity hundreds of years after Jesus died, for example. There are hundreds of instances of this type of modification to the relgion, and then editing of "prophecies" to fit, if applicable.

Christianity as understood topday (Catholic church especially) was hashed out at the Council of Nicaea in 325. (I believe it was 325; as it happened 1700 years ago, my memory has faded some). For example, modern day Christian holy sites in the Middle East were selected by the emperor Constantine's mother.

And on and on. It was made up as it went along, with the prophecies retrofitted.

As to Jesus the man, he was an observant Jew. He taught Jewish traditional law. The Jewish philosophy has served jews well, but never gained mainstream acceptance until it was called "Christianty" (or Islam, in another version) and watered down.

Good post

 

[Lift Chief]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: In defence of Jesus Christ, the Man.

Tiervex if we just evolved from some fish why would we have any virtue in our heart? I mean do fish have virtue?

I'm certainly not claiming this to be the answer but it is a distinct possibility that what we consider virtue simply evolved over the course of human history.

Evolutionary psychology has some interesting explanations for how we came to have cognition of "good" and "evil"...

Just something to think about.... which i have a feeling you probably have not considered.