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SteelWeaver
New member
NObody's going to give me a straight answer on the difference between training for hypertrophy and pre-contest training, ARE they?????
I give up
- Thread starter SteelWeaver
- Start date
There is no real difference for many trainees, especially those not on steroids ...except pre contest you are not going to get much in the way of hypertrophy due to high levels of cardio and low calories. Generally one will continue to train heavy in the weeks up to a contest though so as to not loose size. Some people increase the number of sets per body part and do more isolation work in an effort to burn more calories and bring out more definition but others just increase cardio.
Some people insist on doing more isolation work and less work on the basic compound movements pre contest so this is probably the difference you are looking for. This is usually done by those on steroids since they can maintain mass with high volume work and little use of the big basic compound movements.
RG
Some people insist on doing more isolation work and less work on the basic compound movements pre contest so this is probably the difference you are looking for. This is usually done by those on steroids since they can maintain mass with high volume work and little use of the big basic compound movements.
RG
SteelWeaver
New member
No, spatts - perhaps YOU should go back and read that ONE other thread about this same topic - the OTHER other thread was about training in general, and volume and intensity in particular - and frankly, I'm still confused about THAT one, too, since nobody ever answered my very specific questions on that thread about how they increase the intensity once they drop the volume - unless they were referring to intensity as a %1RM, which OBVIOUSLY increases when the number of sets decreases, as I found out. No-one ever answered the stuff about cadence, etc. Whatever - this is an internet board - I understand the limitations.
I greatly appreciate the input I got on the other (the ONLY other) hypertrophy thread, but I'M STILL CONFUSED. What the messages on that thread boil down to are:
training should stay the same, only diet changes
(but) leg training should change to accommodate higher cardio work
training should be heavier to reduce loss of muscle mass
(but) training should be lighter in the last few weeks, because hypertrophy at that point is unlikely anyway, and handling the heavier weights is difficult and can lead to injury (well, this last part wasn't on that thread, but I've seen it around)
you should always train to failure
(but) training to failure is unnecessary and should only be done one or twice in a 6-week cycle
And, as realgains just said above, some people increase number of sets
(BUT) I JUST DECREASED number of sets because everyone told me I was overtraining
(BUT) when teirrah posted 15 sets for back no-one said a word ....
I guess my question then really is: WHAT IS training for hypertrophy? How many sets, how many reps, to failure or not, on a body-split shedule or not, etc etc?
Since if I am supposed to be training the SAME now as I normally would, and yet everyone just told me my normal training is all wrong and it was overtraining, WHAT, in actual fact, should I be doing???????
I'm confused. And hungry and nauseous, and a taxi drove into my leg this morning while I was biking to work, landing me on the bonnet, and I'm afraid it won't heal before my comp, since I have barely enough calories to walk, never mind heal, and I'm sorry, now I'm whining - it's just a bad day. It'll all be better in 3.5 weeks.
Thank you realgains - that is actually quite helpful.
What I AM doing is just keeping in all the usual compound moves I usually do, and lifting in a 5-7 rep range, close to failure, or at failure on the last rep. Up to 8 sets for big body parts, and 6 for small, workouts 30-45 mins. Sometimes I end with one set of 20 with a light weight just to pump some blood into the muscle.
Sigh. I thought training was the least of my worries ....
I greatly appreciate the input I got on the other (the ONLY other) hypertrophy thread, but I'M STILL CONFUSED. What the messages on that thread boil down to are:
training should stay the same, only diet changes
(but) leg training should change to accommodate higher cardio work
training should be heavier to reduce loss of muscle mass
(but) training should be lighter in the last few weeks, because hypertrophy at that point is unlikely anyway, and handling the heavier weights is difficult and can lead to injury (well, this last part wasn't on that thread, but I've seen it around)
you should always train to failure
(but) training to failure is unnecessary and should only be done one or twice in a 6-week cycle
And, as realgains just said above, some people increase number of sets
(BUT) I JUST DECREASED number of sets because everyone told me I was overtraining
(BUT) when teirrah posted 15 sets for back no-one said a word ....
I guess my question then really is: WHAT IS training for hypertrophy? How many sets, how many reps, to failure or not, on a body-split shedule or not, etc etc?
Since if I am supposed to be training the SAME now as I normally would, and yet everyone just told me my normal training is all wrong and it was overtraining, WHAT, in actual fact, should I be doing???????
I'm confused. And hungry and nauseous, and a taxi drove into my leg this morning while I was biking to work, landing me on the bonnet, and I'm afraid it won't heal before my comp, since I have barely enough calories to walk, never mind heal, and I'm sorry, now I'm whining - it's just a bad day. It'll all be better in 3.5 weeks.
Thank you realgains - that is actually quite helpful.
What I AM doing is just keeping in all the usual compound moves I usually do, and lifting in a 5-7 rep range, close to failure, or at failure on the last rep. Up to 8 sets for big body parts, and 6 for small, workouts 30-45 mins. Sometimes I end with one set of 20 with a light weight just to pump some blood into the muscle.
Sigh. I thought training was the least of my worries ....
vinylgroover
New member
Steelweaver,
If you read the responses carefully instead of waiting for what you expect to hear, you might realise that people have in fact answered your questions.
It boils down to this IMO. COMMON SENSE and experimentation. Here's an idea. Why not try different rep/set/split variations and see which works best for you. I'm sorry if i sound sarcastic, because i'm not. You have to experiment, we are all built differently inside and out. Anyone that simply arbitrarily applies a number on sets or reps or time spent in the gym as their measure for overtraining is way off the mark and too caught in bullshit 'trends' which are spouted off by the media and supplement companies to make money.
Are you growing off 16 sets for legs. If yes, why are you concerned about overtraining. That is the one tangible barometer of whether you are overtraining; growth or lack of it. Who gives a f**k what others say. If you are growing and happy with your progress it gives you some evidence that your body is responding to your training methods.
I admire your dedication and thirst for knowledge, but can't help but feel you get waaaaaay to caught up in the supposed 'science' of this sport. It all comes back to trial and error, common sense and ability to critically and objectively analyse.
No one here can TELL you what to do. People here give advice, you take it in, analyse it and then objectively choose which, if any of the advice you take in at all.
If you read the responses carefully instead of waiting for what you expect to hear, you might realise that people have in fact answered your questions.
It boils down to this IMO. COMMON SENSE and experimentation. Here's an idea. Why not try different rep/set/split variations and see which works best for you. I'm sorry if i sound sarcastic, because i'm not. You have to experiment, we are all built differently inside and out. Anyone that simply arbitrarily applies a number on sets or reps or time spent in the gym as their measure for overtraining is way off the mark and too caught in bullshit 'trends' which are spouted off by the media and supplement companies to make money.
Are you growing off 16 sets for legs. If yes, why are you concerned about overtraining. That is the one tangible barometer of whether you are overtraining; growth or lack of it. Who gives a f**k what others say. If you are growing and happy with your progress it gives you some evidence that your body is responding to your training methods.
I admire your dedication and thirst for knowledge, but can't help but feel you get waaaaaay to caught up in the supposed 'science' of this sport. It all comes back to trial and error, common sense and ability to critically and objectively analyse.
No one here can TELL you what to do. People here give advice, you take it in, analyse it and then objectively choose which, if any of the advice you take in at all.
SteelWeaver
New member
You know what, vinylgroover - that is EXACTLY what I am going to do (Maybe not RIGHT now, with 3.5 weeks to go, but post-comp)
And I think that's one of the best posts I've seen on this board. Thank you.
You are right - I urgently desire to know more, more about everything to do with the whole sport - I just love training. Even now, with the diet and the stress, the only part of the day where I really feel OK is during my workouts - even if I feel exhausted or sick, I still always feel better after a workout.
I guess the original thread was just a need/desire/curiosity to know what people are actually doing, and how - I mean, it DOES make sense, if one can train for less time for the same results, to do so, right?
Anyway, thanks again, that was a good post - I'm gonna let this go now .....
Releeeeeaaaasse .....
(Maybe not RIGHT now, with 3.5 weeks to go, but post-comp)And I think that's one of the best posts I've seen on this board. Thank you.
You are right - I urgently desire to know more, more about everything to do with the whole sport - I just love training. Even now, with the diet and the stress, the only part of the day where I really feel OK is during my workouts - even if I feel exhausted or sick, I still always feel better after a workout.
I guess the original thread was just a need/desire/curiosity to know what people are actually doing, and how - I mean, it DOES make sense, if one can train for less time for the same results, to do so, right?
Anyway, thanks again, that was a good post - I'm gonna let this go now .....
Releeeeeaaaasse .....
vinylgroover
New member
Good for you. I wish you well.
VeggieLifterChick
New member
WarLobo said:
WarLobo,
Does a majority of slow twitch or fast twitch fibers in a specific muscle correspond to strength or size? For instance, if your calves grow easily (LUCKY YOU!) does that mean there is an abundance of fast twitch fibers, or that if your arms don't grow there's an abundance of slow twitch fibers? I think I remember a high school field hockey coach telling me that having more slow twitch fibers meant more endurance whereas having more fast twitch means speed (like sprints).
VeggieLifterChick
New member
Steel,
Just wanted to say I admire you for sticking to your pre-contest prep, I know how hard that can be. Just a little word of advice, though by now I'm sure you know this: when you ask any question about training (or anything really) on these boards you will get several different answers from trustworthy sources who are all convinced they're correct. Don't let them drive you crazy. The best advice I got was from New@ who told me to pick one trusted person and stick to that one source of advice. I know that I personally drove myself to extreme frustration when I was doing the precontest dieting because I tried too hard to follow all of the advice, even though I really should have quit worrying and stuck to what the trainer told me to do. She was focusing on cleaning up my foods and I was making a lot of progress; meanwhile I was already worrying myself about the GI of different fruits when it wasn't even necessary yet - I was making fine progress without those complications. Just as VinylGroover said, go with what works in practice for YOU.
Just wanted to say I admire you for sticking to your pre-contest prep, I know how hard that can be. Just a little word of advice, though by now I'm sure you know this: when you ask any question about training (or anything really) on these boards you will get several different answers from trustworthy sources who are all convinced they're correct. Don't let them drive you crazy. The best advice I got was from New@ who told me to pick one trusted person and stick to that one source of advice. I know that I personally drove myself to extreme frustration when I was doing the precontest dieting because I tried too hard to follow all of the advice, even though I really should have quit worrying and stuck to what the trainer told me to do. She was focusing on cleaning up my foods and I was making a lot of progress; meanwhile I was already worrying myself about the GI of different fruits when it wasn't even necessary yet - I was making fine progress without those complications. Just as VinylGroover said, go with what works in practice for YOU.
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