Huck, Big Andy69, JC21- Post Cycle Regimine???

[Spidey]

Every study I've read stated it has a VERY slow release rate(5 DAY half life),so the front-load is to overcome the slow build-up and get GnRH/L/H cranking out ASAP.It is not mandatory that one do this front load,I have just found that it works better for most.Most of the side accompanied with clomid are due to it mixed agonistic/antagonistic properties.Anastrozole seems to counteract many of these sides for myself as well as others I have seen use this regimen.

I work at a medical center and read the PK study off DHIS, so I'm confident it is legitimate. This is where all the medical doctors here get their drug information when designing treatments for their patients. Pharmaco kinetics clearly showed peak plasma concentration after 6.5 hours with one 50 mg dose of clomid. That doesn't seem like a very slow plasma buildup to me. At peak plasma concentrations, the plasma is saturated so anything else you throw in there will just be excreted. There was a case study in there as well about a 32 yr old male who took 100 mg ed for only two or three weeks and suffered a variety of mental problems including auditory hallucinations, clinical depression and psychosis.

I'll try to look up the study again when my colleague comes in today. He has the access to DHIS; I don't.

-Spidey

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

I work at a medical center and read the PK study off DHIS, so I'm confident it is legitimate. This is where all the medical doctors here get their drug information when designing treatments for their patients. Pharmaco kinetics clearly showed peak plasma concentration after 6.5 hours with one 50 mg dose of clomid. That doesn't seem like a very slow plasma buildup to me. At peak plasma concentrations, the plasma is saturated so anything else you throw in there will just be excreted. There was a case study in there as well about a 32 yr old male who took 100 mg ed for only two or three weeks and suffered a variety of mental problems including auditory hallucinations, clinical depression and psychosis.

I'll try to look up the study again when my colleague comes in today. He has the access to DHIS; I don't.

-Spidey

Bare in mind,for every one study,there will be another that directly contradicts it.I have ran clomid in 50mg increments for 3-4 weeks,and I have ran it in the above described pattern,and for me personally,the front load worked a thousand times better.My sex drive was back to par very quickly,as opposed to it taking several weeks with the 1 tab per day method.You can use whatever you like bro,all I can do is share with you what has worked well for myself as well as others.I have had no adverse effects from running this method either.

 

[Spidey]

Every study I've read stated it has a VERY slow release rate(5 DAY half life),so the front-load is to overcome the slow build-up and get GnRH/L/H cranking out ASAP.It is not mandatory that one do this front load,I have just found that it works better for most.Most of the side accompanied with clomid are due to it mixed agonistic/antagonistic properties.Anastrozole seems to counteract many of these sides for myself as well as others I have seen use this regimen.

One more thing: the fact that the drug itself has a 5 day half life is not really the important point. The important point is how much of the drug you can get into plasma. If the drug is not very soluble in plasma so peak plasma concentration is only say 2 mg/mL (an arbitrary number), and the drug is released at a first order rate with a half life of 5 days, that means that a 2 mg/mL plasma concentration will be reached in just 0.29 days or 7 hours.

First order rate equation: A=Ao*exp(-kt) where Ao is the initial drug dose and A is the dose at time=t. The rate constant=k. T1/2=5 days=(ln2)/k.

Therefore, k=(ln2)/5 days = 0.1386 day^(-1)

2mg is 4% of the initial 50 mg dose so the time required for a 4% release of the drug can be calculated as = ln(0.96)/k = 0.29 days.

-Spidey

 

[Spidey]

Bare in mind,for every one study,there will be another that directly contradicts it.I have ran clomid in 50mg increments for 3-4 weeks,and I have ran it in the above described pattern,and for me personally,the front load worked a thousand times better.My sex drive was back to par very quickly,as opposed to it taking several weeks with the 1 tab per day method.You can use whatever you like bro,all I can do is share with you what has worked well for myself as well as others.I have had no adverse effects from running this method either.

Not trying to flame you or imply you don't know what you're talking about. I will be starting my own ancillary therapy in about three weeks so I'm very interested in getting my dosesages right. I just wanted to see if you had a good explanation for the dosages you suggest or if it was just what someone told you to take when you were new and it worked so you kept doing it that way. No offense .

-Spidey

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

Spidey,all those calculations are great,but how much experience do you have with first hand usage of both AAS and ancillaries?Have you tried various methods to see what actually works in the real world?This is not a flame,just a question,as I have seen a lot of studies that were moot,because they weren't being ran on BB's using a huge amount of androgens,but normal,healthy test subjects(or non-human subjects)with no exogenous influences that could alter their results.Just a thought.

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

BTW,I have been running 'extra-curriculars' for 14 years off and on now.

 

[mvmaxx]

How about Aldactone? I posted a thread about it's use for post cycle recover here:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=178311

That doesn't mean the anti-androgenic properties of spironolactone are completely useless to use. Using them post-cycle can be very effective. The aim is to get testosterone back online as soon as possible, and that means eliminating negative feedback. From estrogen first of all, through the help of clomid or Nolvadex, but also by eliminating negative feedback from androgens, and here spironolactone can help. Running it alongside HCG and then to the end of Nolvadex/Clomid treatment. The result is less side-effects from the HCG (acne, water retention), a synergistic effect with the Clomid/Nolvadex to reduce water retention and it stops the continuation of side-effects. Many times users of androgenic steroids will notice that hair loss continues or even starts after a cycle is done, especially with long acting injectable esters. That's too much, we don't have to tolerate more side-effects than what we need for optimal gains after all. And the spironolactone can prevent androgenic side-effects from continuing after the cycle is over.

 

[Spidey]

Spidey,all those calculations are great,but how much experience do you have with first hand usage of both AAS and ancillaries?Have you tried various methods to see what actually works in the real world?This is not a flame,just a question,as I have seen a lot of studies that were moot,because they weren't being ran on BB's using a huge amount of androgens,but normal,healthy test subjects(or non-human subjects)with no exogenous influences that could alter their results.Just a thought.

I admitt I have virtually no experience with AAS or ancillaries. This is my first cycle.

Your points about the test subjects not being BB's under mitagating circumstances is also well taken. Clomid is usually used as an infertility treatment or as a breast cancer chemotherapy so the PK study was done on patents undergoing clomid therapy for those reasons. It was done on human subjects however. It's a little unclear to me how clomid's solubility in plasma could change based on the subject's use of AAS though.

I don't mean to seem like I know more than I do or appear belligerent. Being a scientist, I just like good, scientifically sound arguments for making my decisions. Especially important decisions like how much of what drug to put into my body.

Have you read any studies that were conducted on BB's? In the end, I guess I'll have to make the leap and just do it. Makes me a bit nervous though.

-Spidey

 

[HUCKLEBERRY FINNaplex]

I admitt I have virtually no experience with AAS or ancillaries. This is my first cycle.

Your points about the test subjects not being BB's under mitagating circumstances is also well taken. Clomid is usually used as an infertility treatment or as a breast cancer chemotherapy so the PK study was done on patents undergoing clomid therapy for those reasons. It was done on human subjects however. It's a little unclear to me how clomid's solubility in plasma could change based on the subject's use of AAS though.

I don't mean to seem like I know more than I do or appear belligerent. Being a scientist, I just like good, scientifically sound arguments for making my decisions. Especially important decisions like how much of what drug to put into my body.

Have you read any studies that were conducted on BB's? In the end, I guess I'll have to make the leap and just do it. Makes me a bit nervous though.

-Spidey

Trust me Spidey,your scientific mind is GREATLY appreciated by all,particularly myself.If you read my posts,you'll see that I try to equally balance science with self-experimentation,and somewhere in the middle is where I achieve my drawn conclusion.Keep a balance between the two,and you will already be ahead of what most will ever know(including most physicians).Let me know how your regimen works.

 

[SOLID]

Huck/Spidey good arguements on both sides, this is the kind of stuff I like to see and what makes a board a good one.

Mvmaxx where did you get that information, I'd like to see the whole article or study to get a better point of view. Good piece of information. I found a little info on aladactone as well and the side effect from it's use seemed high. I'll find it again and post it.