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How to use Clomid or Nolvadex
- Thread starter aaron_everette
- Start date
Beachbum1546
New member
The article ManOfScience posted said Arimidex and Fermera were better. It the supposed benefit worth the extra loot? I kind of like the idea of no estrogen coversion. Let me conclude all the AAS injected/taken are taken full advantage of rather than a portion of it being converted to estrogen. But, I also know the benefits of having estrogen in your system. Thoughts?Big'r said:
Btw, this was more a during cycle question but feel free to address the idea of using armidex post cycle too.
Beachbum1546 said:
Better at what?
Beachbum1546 said:
During a cycle estrogen levels can be decrease by arimidex/femara. But not only estrogen levels are changed while using AIs. IGF-1 levels drop, and test is elevated. The net effect on body composition, protein synthesis and metabolism are 0.
Beachbum1546 said:
Arimidex PCT will increase natural test levels just as well as nolva/clomid. The only disadvantage arimidex has it that it will not hardly prevent gyno.
djsf
New member
Read RADAR's Sticky, all about PCT:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327879&highlight=radar's+sticky
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327879&highlight=radar's+sticky
Maetenloch
New member
Big'r said:
I would have to disagree - clomid and nolva are sufficiently different where they bind to estrogen receptors to make it worthwhile to use both. In particular clomid is much better at stimulating LH, which is critical to getting testosterone production going. Nolva is better at preventing gyno. Ideally you'd want to use both possibly along with arimidex/femara to try and block all estrogen inhibition of the HPTA.
For the details of the studies showing this, I point you to this thread:
http://67.18.108.244/showthread.php?t=94626
NOLVADEX
The way nolvadex works:
Nolvadex can activate neural timing mechanism(s) that govern the intermittent release of endogenous GnRH. 20 mg nolvadex/day for 7 days in 6 normal men attenuates the ability of exogenous GnRH to increase the bio/immuno LH ratio further, which suggests the attainment of maximal enrichment in endogenous LH bioactivity in the presence of antiestrogen (N4).
Nolvadex increases LH, FSH and testosterone values (N1-N4, N24, N29)
Long term treatment with nolvadex is effective in normalising a suppressed axis:
-6 months 20 mg nolvadex/day for 220 men with oligozoospermia increases LH, FSH and testosterone (N1).
-5,5 months 5-20 mg nolvadex/day for 12 men with oligozoospermia increases LH, FSH and testosterone (N3).
-2-4 months nolvadex for 6 men increases LH levels significantly (N24).
-2-12 months nolvadex for 8 boys increases testosterone. LH showed an increased response to LH-RH (N29).
Short term nolvadex treatment is effective in normalising a suppressed axis:
-1 week 20 mg nolvadex/day for 4 men causes a moderate increase in LH, FSH and testosterone (N2).
nolvadex stimulates the axis in small amounts:
-5, 10 and 20 mg nolvadex/day significantly increases basal testosterone levels and the responses of LH/FSH to LHRH infusion. Without significant differences between the lower (5-10 mg) or higher doses (20 mg) (N3).
Nolvadex increases LH, FSH and testosterone above basal levels:
-20 mg nolvadex/day for 1 week increases LH, FSH and testosterone in 4 normal men (N2).
-40 mg nolvadex/day for 10 days in 8 normal men increases basal bioactive LH concentrations from (42.7 +/- 6.9) to (97.6 +/- 19.4) mIU/ml. Total serum testosterone increases significantly (approx. 1.4-fold) (N4).
Nolvadex increases estrogen levels
-5,5 months nolvadex for 12 men does not significantly influence estradiol levels or the E2 over testosterone ratio (N3).
-2-4 months nolvadex for 6 men increases total estradiol levels significantly (N24).
-2-12 months nolvadex for 8 boys increases estradiol (N29).
Nolvadex appears effective in treating gynecomastia. Raloxifene possibly is even more effective.
-(13 men with painful gyno) 10 mg nolva/day for 3 months provided a good response in 10 patients (N21).
-(36 men) 20 mg nolva/day for 6-12 weeks resolved the mass in 30 patients (83,3%). Lump gyno was more responsive than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%) (N22).
-(23 men) 20 mg nolva/day provided complete resolution of gyno in 18 patients (78,2%). 400 mg danazol provided complete resolution in only 8 out of 20 patients (40%) (N23).
-(6 men with painful gyno) Nolva for 2-4 months provided only marginally significant size reduction (N24).
-(61 men with gyno) 40 mg nolva/day for 2 months provided complete regression of breast swelling in 80% (N25).
-(38 boys with persistent gyno) Nolva for 3-9 months reduces breast nodule diameter 2,1 cm. For raloxifene this was 2,5 cm. Nolva provided a significant decrease (<50%) in 41%, with raloxifene this was (86%) (N27).
-(10 boys with pubertal gyno) 20-40 mg nolva/day for 2-12 months decreases gyno totally in 8 boys (N29).
Effect nolvadex on heart and cholesterol in "normal" people seems positive, in women with breast cancer conflicting:
-40 mg nolvadex for 8 weeks in 16 men with coronory artery disease increases %ED-FMD and decreases several plasma cardiovascular risk factors (N11).
-10 mg nolvadex for 1 and 3 months in 15 healthy boys effects blood lipids and hemostasis similar, but lesser than described in women (N12).
-Nolvadex for 6 months in 54 women treated for breast cancer increases HDL-C/total-Cholesterol ratio which might lead to an increased cardiovascular risk (N13).
-Nolvadex for 3 + 6 months in 80 women with breast cancer: 38 premenopausal women showed no significant variation in serum lipoprotein profiles, 42 postmenopausal women showed significant improvement in serum lipoprotein profiles (N14).
-Nolvadex for 2 months in 16 postmenopausal women with breast cancer shows marked hypertriglyceridemia in 3/16 patients (N15).
-20 mg nolvadex for 2 years in 57 normal postmenopausal women reduces the levels of atherogenic lipids and fibrinogen which may substantially reduce the risk o cardiovascular disease (N16).
Side effects Nolvadex
-(13 men) 10 mg nolva/day for 3 months. One patient developed calf tenderness and stopped the medication. No other adverse effects were reported (N21).
-(61 men) 40 mg nolva/day. No long term side effects were observed over a 3 year follow-up period (N25).
-(38 boys) Nolvadex for 3-9 months did not show any side effects (N27).
-(8 boys) Nolvadex for 2-12 months did not show any side effects (N29).
N1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10233572&query_hl=1
N2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8582972&query_hl=1
N3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3931502&query_hl=1
N4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=3305575&dopt=Abstract
N11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11257075&query_hl=1
N12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12053091&query_hl=1
N13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3207604&dopt=Abstract
N14) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11883334&dopt=Abstract
N15) http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/83/5/1633
N16) http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/11/3191
N21) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15998589&query_hl=1
N22) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14759718&query_hl=1
N23) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10651345&query_hl=1
N24) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=2237557&query_hl=1
N25) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3664552&query_hl=1
N27) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15238910&query_hl=1
N29) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3123765&query_hl=1
The way nolvadex works:
Nolvadex can activate neural timing mechanism(s) that govern the intermittent release of endogenous GnRH. 20 mg nolvadex/day for 7 days in 6 normal men attenuates the ability of exogenous GnRH to increase the bio/immuno LH ratio further, which suggests the attainment of maximal enrichment in endogenous LH bioactivity in the presence of antiestrogen (N4).
Nolvadex increases LH, FSH and testosterone values (N1-N4, N24, N29)
Long term treatment with nolvadex is effective in normalising a suppressed axis:
-6 months 20 mg nolvadex/day for 220 men with oligozoospermia increases LH, FSH and testosterone (N1).
-5,5 months 5-20 mg nolvadex/day for 12 men with oligozoospermia increases LH, FSH and testosterone (N3).
-2-4 months nolvadex for 6 men increases LH levels significantly (N24).
-2-12 months nolvadex for 8 boys increases testosterone. LH showed an increased response to LH-RH (N29).
Short term nolvadex treatment is effective in normalising a suppressed axis:
-1 week 20 mg nolvadex/day for 4 men causes a moderate increase in LH, FSH and testosterone (N2).
nolvadex stimulates the axis in small amounts:
-5, 10 and 20 mg nolvadex/day significantly increases basal testosterone levels and the responses of LH/FSH to LHRH infusion. Without significant differences between the lower (5-10 mg) or higher doses (20 mg) (N3).
Nolvadex increases LH, FSH and testosterone above basal levels:
-20 mg nolvadex/day for 1 week increases LH, FSH and testosterone in 4 normal men (N2).
-40 mg nolvadex/day for 10 days in 8 normal men increases basal bioactive LH concentrations from (42.7 +/- 6.9) to (97.6 +/- 19.4) mIU/ml. Total serum testosterone increases significantly (approx. 1.4-fold) (N4).
Nolvadex increases estrogen levels
-5,5 months nolvadex for 12 men does not significantly influence estradiol levels or the E2 over testosterone ratio (N3).
-2-4 months nolvadex for 6 men increases total estradiol levels significantly (N24).
-2-12 months nolvadex for 8 boys increases estradiol (N29).
Nolvadex appears effective in treating gynecomastia. Raloxifene possibly is even more effective.
-(13 men with painful gyno) 10 mg nolva/day for 3 months provided a good response in 10 patients (N21).
-(36 men) 20 mg nolva/day for 6-12 weeks resolved the mass in 30 patients (83,3%). Lump gyno was more responsive than the fatty type (100% vs. 62.5%) (N22).
-(23 men) 20 mg nolva/day provided complete resolution of gyno in 18 patients (78,2%). 400 mg danazol provided complete resolution in only 8 out of 20 patients (40%) (N23).
-(6 men with painful gyno) Nolva for 2-4 months provided only marginally significant size reduction (N24).
-(61 men with gyno) 40 mg nolva/day for 2 months provided complete regression of breast swelling in 80% (N25).
-(38 boys with persistent gyno) Nolva for 3-9 months reduces breast nodule diameter 2,1 cm. For raloxifene this was 2,5 cm. Nolva provided a significant decrease (<50%) in 41%, with raloxifene this was (86%) (N27).
-(10 boys with pubertal gyno) 20-40 mg nolva/day for 2-12 months decreases gyno totally in 8 boys (N29).
Effect nolvadex on heart and cholesterol in "normal" people seems positive, in women with breast cancer conflicting:
-40 mg nolvadex for 8 weeks in 16 men with coronory artery disease increases %ED-FMD and decreases several plasma cardiovascular risk factors (N11).
-10 mg nolvadex for 1 and 3 months in 15 healthy boys effects blood lipids and hemostasis similar, but lesser than described in women (N12).
-Nolvadex for 6 months in 54 women treated for breast cancer increases HDL-C/total-Cholesterol ratio which might lead to an increased cardiovascular risk (N13).
-Nolvadex for 3 + 6 months in 80 women with breast cancer: 38 premenopausal women showed no significant variation in serum lipoprotein profiles, 42 postmenopausal women showed significant improvement in serum lipoprotein profiles (N14).
-Nolvadex for 2 months in 16 postmenopausal women with breast cancer shows marked hypertriglyceridemia in 3/16 patients (N15).
-20 mg nolvadex for 2 years in 57 normal postmenopausal women reduces the levels of atherogenic lipids and fibrinogen which may substantially reduce the risk o cardiovascular disease (N16).
Side effects Nolvadex
-(13 men) 10 mg nolva/day for 3 months. One patient developed calf tenderness and stopped the medication. No other adverse effects were reported (N21).
-(61 men) 40 mg nolva/day. No long term side effects were observed over a 3 year follow-up period (N25).
-(38 boys) Nolvadex for 3-9 months did not show any side effects (N27).
-(8 boys) Nolvadex for 2-12 months did not show any side effects (N29).
N1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10233572&query_hl=1
N2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8582972&query_hl=1
N3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3931502&query_hl=1
N4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=3305575&dopt=Abstract
N11) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11257075&query_hl=1
N12) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12053091&query_hl=1
N13) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3207604&dopt=Abstract
N14) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11883334&dopt=Abstract
N15) http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/83/5/1633
N16) http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/11/3191
N21) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15998589&query_hl=1
N22) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14759718&query_hl=1
N23) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10651345&query_hl=1
N24) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=2237557&query_hl=1
N25) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3664552&query_hl=1
N27) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...d&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15238910&query_hl=1
N29) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3123765&query_hl=1
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