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Advaik
Guest
I have one of those abslider/abroller/abdoers/abfuckers whatever the hell its called and was wondering how well are these for the abs?
A
Advaik
Guest
Thanks, just what I wanted to hear. I've been doing crunchs since I don't like the little toy, but I thought I'd ask just to see. About weighted crunchs though, how do you do them? Do you use some sort of device? I've just been doing high rep crunchs with long holds (up to 5 seconds).
Gentlemen, please.
The ab wheel, the traditional little wheel with a handle going through it, NOT the abdolly, abtiger, abblaster, abfuckall, is BY FAR more effective than crunches.
Crunches, weighted or not, are a waste of time if one is looking to develop ab strength. Of course, the ab wheel must be done correctly, and this makes all the difference.
For anyone who cares, kindly check out the discussion board at www.dragondoor.com, and search for ab wheel.
Stop wasting time with crunches, weighted pulls, etc...
Anyone who can do five standing (NOT kneeling) ab wheel full extensions gets, well, at least gets my respect, if not some prize.
The ab wheel, the traditional little wheel with a handle going through it, NOT the abdolly, abtiger, abblaster, abfuckall, is BY FAR more effective than crunches.
Crunches, weighted or not, are a waste of time if one is looking to develop ab strength. Of course, the ab wheel must be done correctly, and this makes all the difference.
For anyone who cares, kindly check out the discussion board at www.dragondoor.com, and search for ab wheel.
Stop wasting time with crunches, weighted pulls, etc...
Anyone who can do five standing (NOT kneeling) ab wheel full extensions gets, well, at least gets my respect, if not some prize.
yeah, whatever.
When doing the weighted crunches, I use a decline bench. Grab a 65 (or whatever), cradle it to your chest, and use a 2-1-2 tempo. Go down to parallel to the ground, and come up until the resistance lessens (just before you're perpendicular to the ground). 2-3 sets of 8 should be plenty.
Mjollnir, the ab wheel does work the abs quite well, but it also works other muscle groups, which most people already account for in their routines. hanging leg raises (done on a chin-up bar, actually compressing yourself in to a ball, not just using your hip flexors) and weighted crunches are MORE than enough isolation for your abs, considering most people ridiculously overtrain their abdominals anyway.
Just because an exercise is hard to do well does not mean it's superior, by ANY STRETCH of the imagination.
When doing the weighted crunches, I use a decline bench. Grab a 65 (or whatever), cradle it to your chest, and use a 2-1-2 tempo. Go down to parallel to the ground, and come up until the resistance lessens (just before you're perpendicular to the ground). 2-3 sets of 8 should be plenty.
Mjollnir, the ab wheel does work the abs quite well, but it also works other muscle groups, which most people already account for in their routines. hanging leg raises (done on a chin-up bar, actually compressing yourself in to a ball, not just using your hip flexors) and weighted crunches are MORE than enough isolation for your abs, considering most people ridiculously overtrain their abdominals anyway.
Just because an exercise is hard to do well does not mean it's superior, by ANY STRETCH of the imagination.
Belial said:
Er, no, not whatever. The crunch is biomechanically inferior and inefficient. It does not isolate the abs, and it is impossible to completely eliminate hip flexor recruitment during a crunch.
One of the fundamental laws of physiology, the Law of Irradiation, dictates that the contraction of a muscle, the abs in this case, will set off a contraction of the adjacent muscles, or the hip flexors.
The work involved by other muscles when using an ab wheel is minimal if the exercise is correctly done. I'm not selling ab wheels, here, I'm just pointing out that crunches are an inferior exercise, dangerous to people with bad backs, and time wasted in light of other, much more efficient exercises like the Janda sit up, scissor situps, Spetznatz one-armed leg jackknives, Dragon Flags, or full contact twists.
I do so hate to see people waste their time with things that don't work.
I'd genuinely be interested to learn more about the mechanics of the ab wheel exercise. I'm familiar with the drawbacks and contraindications for the regular crunch, but for the typical healthy trainee, they (especially the weighted variety) remain a very effective and proven exercise.
As far as the rest goes....simplicity is God. To a large extent many muscles are contracted in every ab action, but not to as great a degree in the crunch as in certain others. You stated yourself, almost every ab exercise will involve the hip flexors. Isolation is ALWAYS a relative term, I never claimed you could eliminate them. hell, I contract my sphincter during the bench press, i don't stop doing them for fear of ass overtraining. (that's flippant, but it sounded funny in my head so I wrote it out.)
As for the Janda sit up, scissor situps, Spetznatz one-armed leg jackknives, Dragon Flags, or full contact twists.....Thanks, but I'll stick to my weighted crunches and hanging leg raises. My abs are very defined, very large and very strong.
As far as the rest goes....simplicity is God. To a large extent many muscles are contracted in every ab action, but not to as great a degree in the crunch as in certain others. You stated yourself, almost every ab exercise will involve the hip flexors. Isolation is ALWAYS a relative term, I never claimed you could eliminate them. hell, I contract my sphincter during the bench press, i don't stop doing them for fear of ass overtraining. (that's flippant, but it sounded funny in my head so I wrote it out.)
As for the Janda sit up, scissor situps, Spetznatz one-armed leg jackknives, Dragon Flags, or full contact twists.....Thanks, but I'll stick to my weighted crunches and hanging leg raises. My abs are very defined, very large and very strong.
the theory behind the wheel is quite good for the simple fact of the pre-stretch
it works the abs a ton if you can pre-stretch them out first.............
sor for crunches...... you could put 8-10 inches of padding under your lowerback and do regular crunches.
weighted crunches are extremely effective as well............
the only problem i have with leg raises is that most people dont do them properly and they work thier hip flexors more then there abbs............. maybe Belial can describe them more accurate....i dont do them i suck at them so i dont do them much.....usually at the end of my workout
it works the abs a ton if you can pre-stretch them out first.............
sor for crunches...... you could put 8-10 inches of padding under your lowerback and do regular crunches.
weighted crunches are extremely effective as well............
the only problem i have with leg raises is that most people dont do them properly and they work thier hip flexors more then there abbs............. maybe Belial can describe them more accurate....i dont do them i suck at them so i dont do them much.....usually at the end of my workout
Think about doing them on those "seat-less chairs". If you keep your lower back flush with the apparatus, and lift your legs, your abs are doing very little actual contraction; you'll be using your hip flexors primarily, and somewhat isometrically training your abs.
Instead, when your legs begin to rise, focus on thrusting your lower back forward, and curl inwards. On another site, someone described it as "putting your d*ck in your mouth*. Crude, but more or less accurate. it's getting your hips forward and up from the vertical plane that's key.
You can eventually do these from parallel chin-up bars (i.e., neutral-grip chin up bars). This takes a great deal of core strength to do without swinging. Each rep should take a good deal of effort, even on the chair; this is not something where 10 reps takes 15-20 seconds, you should use the same tempo as with any other lift, and stop your leg motion entirely between reps. I attached a very awful pic (since I couldn't find one online right away) of the before and after positions from the chair. I'm (obviously) no artist, but it more or less shows the basic idea. These will STILL work your hip flexors, but no longer exclusively. lol.
Instead, when your legs begin to rise, focus on thrusting your lower back forward, and curl inwards. On another site, someone described it as "putting your d*ck in your mouth*. Crude, but more or less accurate. it's getting your hips forward and up from the vertical plane that's key.
You can eventually do these from parallel chin-up bars (i.e., neutral-grip chin up bars). This takes a great deal of core strength to do without swinging. Each rep should take a good deal of effort, even on the chair; this is not something where 10 reps takes 15-20 seconds, you should use the same tempo as with any other lift, and stop your leg motion entirely between reps. I attached a very awful pic (since I couldn't find one online right away) of the before and after positions from the chair. I'm (obviously) no artist, but it more or less shows the basic idea. These will STILL work your hip flexors, but no longer exclusively. lol.
enrage
New member
those little ab wheels that sell around for $3 at your local wal-mart absolutly kill my abs. I don't know about anyone else but that little wheel left my entire stomach sore for about a week and a half.I think they are great for changing the tempo of your ab routine. Plus you can't beat the price of 3-4$. i wouldn't dare pay 200$ for one of those ab machines.
"Jackknife Push-Ups on the "Evil Wheel"
"You've seen these little wheel gizmos at Wal-Mart. They look like lawnmower wheels with bicycle handles shoved through them. The packaging usually shows a smiling aerobics instructor-looking chick in a convenient doggy-style position.
I blew these devices off for years because, well, they were usually sitting right beside the pink dumbbells and the solar suits! Don't make this mistake. These little bastards are vicious, effective, and a favorite of the Soviet special forces. You can also use a barbell loaded with 25s if you don't want to lay out $10 on a wheel (you cheap bastard, you).
Get down on your knees, Bob Paris style, and grab the wheel in your hands. Inhale, round the back maximally, and tuck in your butt and chin. Your hips should be vertical, and your back shouldn't be arched. The butt should never be sticking out backward.
Slowly roll all of the way down until your chest just grazes the floor. Without resting, pull yourself back up, keeping your arms straight and your back rounded. If you can't come up, just do the eccentric (lowing part) of the movement until you get stronger.
If you're really (and I do mean really) strong, you can try the advanced version in which you don't touch your knees to the floor. Instead, stay up on your feet. I tested about 25 high school and college athletes on this movement, and only one was able to perform this advanced version. Consequently, this athlete is considered to be the best high school fullback in the area and starts for varsity as a sophomore. Can you say "free college?"
"Jackknife Push-Ups on the "Evil Wheel"
"You've seen these little wheel gizmos at Wal-Mart. They look like lawnmower wheels with bicycle handles shoved through them. The packaging usually shows a smiling aerobics instructor-looking chick in a convenient doggy-style position.
I blew these devices off for years because, well, they were usually sitting right beside the pink dumbbells and the solar suits! Don't make this mistake. These little bastards are vicious, effective, and a favorite of the Soviet special forces. You can also use a barbell loaded with 25s if you don't want to lay out $10 on a wheel (you cheap bastard, you).
Get down on your knees, Bob Paris style, and grab the wheel in your hands. Inhale, round the back maximally, and tuck in your butt and chin. Your hips should be vertical, and your back shouldn't be arched. The butt should never be sticking out backward.
Slowly roll all of the way down until your chest just grazes the floor. Without resting, pull yourself back up, keeping your arms straight and your back rounded. If you can't come up, just do the eccentric (lowing part) of the movement until you get stronger.
If you're really (and I do mean really) strong, you can try the advanced version in which you don't touch your knees to the floor. Instead, stay up on your feet. I tested about 25 high school and college athletes on this movement, and only one was able to perform this advanced version. Consequently, this athlete is considered to be the best high school fullback in the area and starts for varsity as a sophomore. Can you say "free college?"
Ab Wheel
Let's just agree that there are many ways to wok the abs efficiently (although most are variations of a crunch or something similiar). Yes in general, harder exercises are better for you. Anyone who has used the ab wheel (just a wheel with a stick poking thru it) knows that it will also hit lats, tris, etc. It's a killer exercise. Obviously then it doesn't isolate your abs. So what? They get worked plenty. Besides, what's wrong with using your whole body as a unit the way it was designed to be. That is called functional strength. Believe it or not, my best ab workouts come from heavy Tricep pushdowns and heavy squats. Anyone doing squats consistanly will have decent abs when they diet down.
"Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong."
-Dennis Miller
Let's just agree that there are many ways to wok the abs efficiently (although most are variations of a crunch or something similiar). Yes in general, harder exercises are better for you. Anyone who has used the ab wheel (just a wheel with a stick poking thru it) knows that it will also hit lats, tris, etc. It's a killer exercise. Obviously then it doesn't isolate your abs. So what? They get worked plenty. Besides, what's wrong with using your whole body as a unit the way it was designed to be. That is called functional strength. Believe it or not, my best ab workouts come from heavy Tricep pushdowns and heavy squats. Anyone doing squats consistanly will have decent abs when they diet down.
"Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong."
-Dennis Miller
THE_Gladiator
New member
I will have to agree that crunches and leg raises should give you the results you desire. you might have sub-cutaneous fat that is hiding your development. I've also heard that bicycle crunches recruit the largest amount of muscle fibers in the abdominal region.
