How Do Homosexuals Feel About Homophobes?

[musclebrains]

God almighty!!! If it is that fucking bad to be gay... put your pp in a vagina. It feels fine.

ask somebody.

Whooooooooooosh.

 

[GinNJuice]

until 40 years ago, you could not pick up a text book and find any significant mention of black people who made any important contribution to American culture. Ditto for women.

You make reference to oppression that is significantly different than that of gays. For example, when a black man or a woman walk past you, you know immediately that they are black or a woman... you don't have to talk to them to find out what "minority" they are a part of (If I remember correctly, there is at least as many women as men on this planet). You don't have to ask a black man if he is black. In a job interview, the company knows he's black the second he walks in the door..... thus, he can be discriminated against before he hands his resume over. Same thing with getting an apartment... as soon as he meets the LL, discrimination can happen. The same goes for women.

.... however, as suggested earlier, the guy working out next to me in the gym could be gay..... several of the people I work with could be gay..... I don't know. When a man comes in to interview with me, how would I know he is gay?????? Or if a two college men come to rent one of my apartments, how would I know that they are gay?????

No one can discriminate against a gay man unless this man tells everyone that he likes/wants to sleep with men. (we are not discussing trannys or xdressers here, we are talking about gay men).... No one can discriminate against a choir of men, unless they inform "them" that they like to sleep with men.

When are YOU going to get it? It is not necessary to tell strangers who you like to have sex with.

Using your reasoning like "it meant penetrating the wall of partriarchal domination of the body -- of finding ownership and autonomy in their own bodies", then heterosexuals that like to have sex doggy style should identify them selves as different from heterosexuals that like it missionary, and then again from those who like it both ways. (I could go on an on about different sexual preferences). Then if some right-wing extremist thinks it is immoral to do it doggy style, then there would be some form of discrimination. And heterosexual couples engage in sodomy all the time. But in reality, all of this is personal and private information.

You don't understand this because you have utterly NO sense of what it is like to be pursued, oppressed and hated in America.

Oh, I don't huh, How do YOU know that? Because I question your reasoning for perpetuating differences in people?

 

[GinNJuice]

Oh, so you didn't do it for the music at all! From what you say, you were in the chorus for the sole reason of fighting the political battles of gays. ......
No, we just wanted to sing and have a concert.
In order to have that concert we had to do battle.

If, indeed, all you wanted to do was sing, then you would have omitted "Gay" from the title. Instead, you wanted to fight a political battle with your chorus as the vehicle! Though the battle has merit, you should not complain that you wheren't given the opportunity to sing..... but instead you do, as if "the choir" was a victim.... you were not victims, but rather warriors...... JUST DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE BATTLE YOU STARTED. You can be proud of the battle and results, but don't complain about it!

20 years later the gays of SF no longer have to do that battle, and that's progress in my eyes, but it's not why we had a chorus.
We had a chorus to enrich our COMMUNITY, again it's all about making a sense of COMMUNITY!

making sense of the community.... whatever!

Now you won't support another group of gays just because they want to sing instead of making a political statement!
I've already said I respect their singing ability and wish them well.
I'm just pointing out that the Texas Gay COMMUNITY has not benefited the way the SF community has. [/B]

Yes, you said that they were good, but you WON'T go see them, while straight people, like myself, will go and support them.... pretty damn ironic to me

Maybe the COMMUNITY in Texas hasn't benefited because so-called gay activists like yourself won't support the COMMUNITY. Your statements and actions are such a contradiction!

 

[JohnyJuice]

i think you could still make the choice not to have sex with guys. however you were born with some genetic defect that made you more feminine in some ways than other guys. that is why you like penis. it can be fixed.

I agree. Except not all gays are feminine. I think they just happen to get the piece of woman genetic material that wants cock.

 

[musclebrains]

You make reference to oppression that is significantly different than that of gays. For example, when a black man or a woman walk past you, you know immediately that they are black or a woman... you don't have to talk to them to find out what "minority" they are a part of (If I remember correctly, there is at least as many women as men on this planet). You don't have to ask a black man if he is black. In a job interview, the company knows he's black the second he walks in the door..... thus, he can be discriminated against before he hands his resume over. Same thing with getting an apartment... as soon as he meets the LL, discrimination can happen. The same goes for women.

.... however, as suggested earlier, the guy working out next to me in the gym could be gay..... several of the people I work with could be gay..... I don't know. When a man comes in to interview with me, how would I know he is gay?????? Or if a two college men come to rent one of my apartments, how would I know that they are gay?????

No one can discriminate against a gay man unless this man tells everyone that he likes/wants to sleep with men. (we are not discussing trannys or xdressers here, we are talking about gay men).... No one can discriminate against a choir of men, unless they inform "them" that they like to sleep with men.

When are YOU going to get it? It is not necessary to tell strangers who you like to have sex with.

Using your reasoning like "it meant penetrating the wall of partriarchal domination of the body -- of finding ownership and autonomy in their own bodies", then heterosexuals that like to have sex doggy style should identify them selves as different from heterosexuals that like it missionary, and then again from those who like it both ways. (I could go on an on about different sexual preferences). Then if some right-wing extremist thinks it is immoral to do it doggy style, then there would be some form of discrimination. And heterosexual couples engage in sodomy all the time. But in reality, all of this is personal and private information.

Oh, I don't huh, How do YOU know that? Because I question your reasoning for perpetuating differences in people?

No, you really don't get it. Why should anyone have to hide who they love? You, in a very silly and reductive way, try to make one's sexual orientation a mere matter of where you put your penis and that it shouldn't be disclosed if you want a trouble-free life.

The implication of that is that you should hide the person you love from view -- your actual relatinships, your family. (This is partly why your analogy of doggy-style sex is so unfathomably irrelevant.) What if you are part of a same-sex couple that has adopted children? Should you likewise tell the children to stay mum. And don't tell me for one second it's not common to ask in a job interview: "Are you married? Do you have a girl friend," etc. You're suggesting we lie -- closet ourselves -- in order to get aparmtents, get jobs, to get along.

No thanks. Persecuted people have two choices, to fight back or to accommodate their oppressors. I'm not interested in the latter, especially when it means hiding who I am with the knowledge that I remain at risk because I didn't disclose myself from the start. And, fortunately, I've never had to do it but I'm luckier than a lot of gay people.

I already addressed at length the way alternative cultures develop and I see no need to repeat the argument that certain subcultural-bound characteristics come to cluster about the original cause of oppression.

When you tell people to keep quiet you are hardly advocating a world in which difference doesn't matter. Quite the contrary.

Anyway, I'm done with this topic.

 

[GinNJuice]

No, you really don't get it. Why should anyone have to hide who they love? You, in a very silly and reductive way, try to make one's sexual orientation a mere matter of where you put your penis and that it shouldn't be disclosed if you want a trouble-free life.

The implication of that is that you should hide the person you love from view -- your actual relatinships, your family. (This is partly why your analogy of doggy-style sex is so unfathomably irrelevant.) What if you are part of a same-sex couple that has adopted children? Should you likewise tell the children to stay mum.

And don't tell me for one second it's not common to ask in a job interview: "Are you married? Do you have a girl friend," etc. You're suggesting we lie -- closet ourselves -- in order to get aparmtents, get jobs, to get along.

I'm simply stateing that there is an appropriate and inappropriate time/place to annouce sexual orination. You don't walk down the street and tell the first person that walks by that you are in love with so-and-so right? You don't go into a job interview and start telling a stranger about your love life right? But you may want to talk about it with a FRIEND, when it's appropriate.

And it is ILLEGAL, as you know, for an interviewer to ask those kind of questions!

Anyway, I'm done with this topic.

Oh, logic wins over huh?

 

[dballer]

Gin&Juice.....

I have a new found respect for you.

 

[musclebrains]

I'm simply stateing that there is an appropriate and inappropriate time/place to annouce sexual orination. You don't walk down the street and tell the first person that walks by that you are in love with so-and-so right? You don't go into a job interview and start telling a stranger about your love life right? But you may want to talk about it with a FRIEND, when it's appropriate.

And it is ILLEGAL, as you know, for an interviewer to ask those kind of questions!



Oh, logic wins over huh?

Oh yeah. Very logical. Your logic depends on YOUR telling the rest of us when disclosure is appropriate. This is not one bit different from telling black folks when not to be uppity -- if they want what the white folks got.

 

[GinNJuice]

Oh yeah. Very logical. Your logic depends on YOUR telling the rest of us when disclosure is appropriate. This is not one bit different from telling black folks when not to be uppity -- if they want what the white folks got.

I knew you'd be back

..... let's see what John has to say ......

 

[GinNJuice]

Your logic depends on YOUR telling the rest of us when disclosure is appropriate.

So, do you advocate that it is NEVER inappropriate to announce to strangers, whom you like to have sex with?