How Do Homosexuals Feel About Homophobes?

[HansNZ]

This is the root of the problem in my opinion. If you don't advertise your sexual habits, how can you be discriminated against? That is why I see no need for SPECIAL homosexual rights legislation, other than the already exisiting more general civil rights laws.

So you are saying tha those who are discriminated against deserve it because they demonstarted who they are?

In any case I don't see that I would know someone's sexual orientation from their resume or an interview, but when working with them if their orientation becomes known I don't think I should be allowed to discriminate against them.

 

[HansNZ]

It early where I am, have you had a few cups of coffee already? Jeez! My point is how would someone know you were gay, bi or into bestiality in the first place? Most businesses, vendors, builders couldn't care less, just want to make a buck. Housing and Employment laws apply to all people, including gays. You're just not happy because there is no law that applies to gays exclusively and specifically.

This is why you end up looking so ridiculous. You would really have a hard time writing academic essays on any subject if you use the type of ridiculous reasoning you have on our countless threads to prove your arguments.

If you want to believe that gay people aren't discriminated against and current laws are applied equally then fine. But we've had debates on so many issues where you just fall flat on yor face.

You are a perfect example of someone whose mind is made up no matter what. That is why so much social progress is made by people dying of old age because they are simply beyond reason.

 

[HansNZ]

LOL....Yes, I've been up over an hour.

No, TTL, housing laws do not apply to everyone. YOu simply can't get that through your head. YOu move into an apartment. You meet a guy. You move him in. It's LEGAL to kick the guy out because he's gay. He didn't have to wear a dress, act queeny or anything else. It happens ALL THE TIME.

Why do you think local statues add "sexual orientation" to employment and housing laws?? Because gay people are NOT protected under the ordinary laws. You just don't get it, do you?

There is no point using reason or discussing the facts with ttlpkg. His mind is made up.

 

[Y_lifter]

Originally posted by The Nature Boy
did those words come from jesus's mouth? or did some other bozo write that stuff?

I got to this Post and Stopped reading the rest of the pages of this thread.
NB has hit the Nail (no pun intended) on the Head as far as the New Testament and it basic message of forgiveness.

It is VERY clear in the text by usually printing the Actual words Jesus Spoke while he was alive in BOLD or RED.
There are many instances where his basic teachings were of Forgiveness and Understanding by everyone for the Sinner.
Repentance and Forgiveness for those that have sinned.

He eats with the tax collector because he is doing his job.
He speaks to the Woman who has cheated on her husband and tells her she is forgiven and to go forth and sin no more.

Very few if any instances come to mind where Jesus Actually said
"If you SIN you will go to hell, End of story".

The few that are there state that if you do not live your life as he teaches as best you can, and reject GOD and his forgiveness, then you are eternally damned.

 

[runner]

If you want to believe that gay people aren't discriminated against and current laws are applied equally then fine. But we've had debates on so many issues where you just fall flat on yor face.

i'm a mid 30's gay guy and have never been directly discriminated against. i think sometimes some gay activist types (musclebrains?) make too much of the laws that are on the books which would theoretically allow discrimination. i just don't think it's as widespread as they would have us believe.

i, like flexed, cringe every time i see some cross-dressing freak on "jenny jones". the gay community loves to embrace its most fringe elements and the media, of course, loves to spotlight them. they just give "normal" gay people like myself and flexed a bad name and totally distort the public's perception of gays.

i guess i have to plead guilty to being a gay "homophobe" myself. my friends are in great part straight...i don't particularly like the tendency of minority groups (gays, blacks, asians...whatever) to associate only with "their own kind". in my own small way i think i've shown many people that gays are not all freaks or pedophiles.

 

[GinNJuice]

LOL....Yes, I've been up over an hour.

No, TTL, housing laws do not apply to everyone. YOu simply can't get that through your head. YOu move into an apartment. You meet a guy. You move him in. It's LEGAL to kick the guy out because he's gay. He didn't have to wear a dress, act queeny or anything else. It happens ALL THE TIME.

I'm courious about this because I'm looking into becoming a landlord and I've been researching the housing laws.

In your example, if you get a lease on an apartment and you are the only one on the lease, then ONLY you can live there. Most landlords have problems when a tenent starts moving people into the apartment without adding that person to the lease.

There are many reasons why that is a problem for the landlord... and it doesn't matter the sex of the "new" tenent... for one, there is more wear-and-tear on a property when more people live there. There is also a higher probablility of liability for injury. That is why almost all landlords charge more money when there are additional people living in a unit.

When some asshole moves someone in and doesn't tell the landlord and/or doesn't add them to the lease, then the LL doesn't have any legal recorse for damage/loss of rents/or lease violations against the "new" tenent.

Remember, the LL is not leasing out an apartment to be a nice guy/girl.... they accept huge responsibility/liability for investment purposes...... when someone is living in THIER property without a lease, then they need to/must either get them on the lease or evict them.

So I ask you, in your example.... was the "boyfriend" added to the lease when you tried to move him in?

 

[GinNJuice]

Link to a different thread, but same type if issue:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=158250

 

[musclebrains]

The Concise Oxford Dictionary definition of homophobia:

homophobia: noun. a hatred or fear of homosexuals.

I speak English and the Oxford Dictionary is the standard form of English. That is how it defines homophobia. If it has a different meaning in the American dialect then fine. But then that is the dialect form - not the English language definition.

THE END.

I've quoted the Oxford def a zillion times, Hans. It makes no difference to them.

 

[dballer]

Oh puhlease - here we go again. Trying to link homosexuality with pedophilia. And how many straight men do you know of that perve at 14 year old school girls - plenty! Male characteristics don't develop until later in men so generally those who are sexually attracted to male characteristics prefer their men a bit more mature.

Can you tell me of a hetrosexual group that is formed around having sex with minors....PUHLEASE!!!!????? (NAMBLA)


Their are straight pedophiles.. but in a percentage.. not nearly as many as the gays. We are dealing with a group of people whon base the fundamentals of life around anal sex.

 

[musclebrains]

its a genetic defect. if i want to cure downs syndrome does that mean that i hate mongoloids?

Um, how bout contradicting yourself. you already explicitly said you hate homos. Obviously, you're just a mindfucker.

 

[dballer]

You know, TTl, if you acted more white, you'd probably be able to operate more competently outside the unnaturally unprejudiced military too.

If you acted more straight you'd probably be able to operate more competently outside the unnaturally unprejudiced military too.

 

[dballer]

Of course you wouldn't be a closed minded ideologist would you?

And why are you citing pedophiles on this thread? You seem to want to link homosexuality with pedophilia.

It is sooooooooo easy to do. I do not know about where you live..I know it is not in the USA.... but here in Atlanta.. this is a BIG problem.

 

[musclebrains]

If you acted more straight you'd probably be able to operate more competently outside the unnaturally unprejudiced military too.

I am openly gay, dballer, and I"m willing to bet I've had a hell of a lot more success than you have. I"ve run large staffs of nothign but straight people, mainly men. You do not represent the attitude of most intelligent professionals these days.

 

[musclebrains]

It is sooooooooo easy to do. I do not know about where you live..I know it is not in the USA.... but here in Atlanta.. this is a BIG problem.

LOL...another claim without a shred of evidence.

 

[curling]

You just gave me a newfound respect for gays like you, I generaly don't like gays(for the reasons that you state above),but I would have no problem hanging out with a guy like you.

Flexed does sound cool.

 

[musclebrains]

I'm courious about this because I'm looking into becoming a landlord and I've been researching the housing laws.

In your example, if you get a lease on an apartment and you are the only one on the lease, then ONLY you can live there. Most landlords have problems when a tenent starts moving people into the apartment without adding that person to the lease.

There are many reasons why that is a problem for the landlord... and it doesn't matter the sex of the "new" tenent... for one, there is more wear-and-tear on a property when more people live there. There is also a higher probablility of liability for injury. That is why almost all landlords charge more money when there are additional people living in a unit.

When some asshole moves someone in and doesn't tell the landlord and/or doesn't add them to the lease, then the LL doesn't have any legal recorse for damage/loss of rents/or lease violations against the "new" tenent.

Remember, the LL is not leasing out an apartment to be a nice guy/girl.... they accept huge responsibility/liability for investment purposes...... when someone is living in THIER property without a lease, then they need to/must either get them on the lease or evict them.

So I ask you, in your example.... was the "boyfriend" added to the lease when you tried to move him in?

I've not had the experience.

The issue here is not adding a person to the lease. The issue is the sexual orientation. It's not like the landlords deny it. It's LEGAL in many places. Why is this so hard to understand? It is legal to kick someone out of an apartment when you find out they are gay, if you disapprove -- unless a local statute prohibits it.

 

[GinNJuice]

The issue here is not adding a person to the lease. The issue is the sexual orientation. It's not like the landlords deny it. It's LEGAL in many places. Why is this so hard to understand? It is legal to kick someone out of an apartment when you find out they are gay, if you disapprove -- unless a local statute prohibits it.

I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but in the U.S. the ONLY way to evict someone is for violation of/or conclusion of lease.

Also, please support your claim by an example or evidence of the "legality" of eviction based solely on sexual orientation.

 

[musclebrains]

I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but in the U.S. the ONLY way to evict someone is for violation of/or conclusion of lease.

Also, please support your claim by an example or evidence of the "legality" of eviction based solely on sexual orientation.

I tell you what. You answer me why local statutes would be written to protect minorities in housing and employment if they weren't frequently denied housing and jobs or evicted and fired because of their minority status? Why would some cities include in their statutes that you can't discriminate against people on the basis of "sexual orientation" if this didn't occur.

If your argument hinges on the contention that there is a significant difference in denying housing and actually evicting someone after they've signed a lease, that' basically a technicality -- and one I'm not interested in pursuing. The reality is that it is legal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation -- in housing, in employment -- and this is well known.

 

[GinNJuice]

I tell you what. You answer me why local statutes would be written to protect minorities in housing and employment if they weren't frequently denied housing and jobs or evicted and fired because of their minority status? Why would some cities include in their statutes that you can't discriminate against people on the basis of "sexual orientation" if this didn't occur.

No arguement there, of course discrimination against these people happens, that was not the point that I addressed. Below is your statement that I addressed and it is incorrect.

No, TTL, housing laws do not apply to everyone. YOu simply can't get that through your head. YOu move into an apartment. You meet a guy. You move him in. It's LEGAL to kick the guy out because he's gay. He didn't have to wear a dress, act queeny or anything else. It happens ALL THE TIME.

Again, it is ONLY legal to evict someone for violation of/ or conclusion of a lease.... even then it is still difficult to evict.

If your argument hinges on the contention that there is a significant difference in denying housing and actually evicting someone after they've signed a lease, that' basically a technicality -- and one I'm not interested in pursuing.

Again, "My argument" was based on a false claim that you made above saying it was legal to kick a guy out solely because he is gay. However, when looking to get a new apartment, I don't know how a potiential LL would know who you like to have sex with Even if you were moving in to an apartment with your boyfriend, putting him in the lease, why would you say you're having sex with him? That's personal business right? There should be no difference if you are roomates.

The reality is that it is legal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation -- in housing, in employment -- and this is well known.

Again, I don't know how it is any business of a LL or employer, who you have sex with And, even if you like to annouce that to everyone you meet, there are laws to protect you... like EOE and EOH

 

[dballer]

I am openly gay, dballer, and I"m willing to bet I've had a hell of a lot more success than you have. I"ve run large staffs of nothign but straight people, mainly men. You do not represent the attitude of most intelligent professionals these days.

That statment was made by you about a guy you have never met!!!!

Honestly.. what the hell do you really know? You know nothing about me.

 

[dballer]

LOL...another claim without a shred of evidence.

NAMBLA

 

[HansNZ]

Can you tell me of a hetrosexual group that is formed around having sex with minors....PUHLEASE!!!!????? (NAMBLA)


Their are straight pedophiles.. but in a percentage.. not nearly as many as the gays. We are dealing with a group of people whon base the fundamentals of life around anal sex.

There are just so many things wrong with this post. Now where do I start.

Firstly, I do not live in the USA so I do not know about some organisation called NAMBLA. What I do know is that pedophilia has nothing to do with homosexuality.

If you knew what you were talking about you would know that child abuse is about control and mental disorder - not sex appeal.

Secondly, young children have feminine characteristics. They do not develop masculine characteristics until after puberty. As a gay man why would I be turned on by some effeminiate child. A young boy would be far more appealing to a heterosexual man.

Thirdly, most men who abuse boys ARE heterosexual.

Fourth, you are more likely to be a pedophile if you are heterosexuals. Gays may be 10% of the population but they make up fewer than 10% of pedophiles. This has been shown in independent study after independent study - and not by a gay rights group with an "agenda". It is a typical misrepresentation among the media and false assumption among straight people generally that a man who abuses a boy is gay.

In fact even if gays were disproportionately responsible for abuse this isn't an indictment against homosexuality. It would be an indictment against a society that fucks people up because of their sexuality. I am surprised that more gays aren't perverts considering the bullshit they get exposed to.

But none of this matters. people on here will deny the legitimacy of anything that shows up their prejudices as false.

 

[dballer]

Secondly, young children have feminine characteristics. They do not develop masculine characteristics until after puberty. As a gay man why would I be turned on by some effeminiate child. A young boy would be far more appealing to a heterosexual man.

I am supposrd to take you serious????

 

[HansNZ]

It is sooooooooo easy to do. I do not know about where you live..I know it is not in the USA.... but here in Atlanta.. this is a BIG problem.

Says who?

 

[HansNZ]

I don't know what fantasy world you live in, but in the U.S. the ONLY way to evict someone is for violation of/or conclusion of lease.

Also, please support your claim by an example or evidence of the "legality" of eviction based solely on sexual orientation.

Well when I was being abused and sent countless anonymous threats because of my sexuality on EF, I investigated some gay rights organistaions I could report Elte Fitness to. Essentially what I discovered is that gay people do not have the human rights protections that minorities have in my country. Protection was hit and miss and depended on the locality. Essentially there was a complete absence of laws in many places in the USA preventing discrimination based on sexual orientation.

 

[Longhorn85]

This is why you end up looking so ridiculous. You would really have a hard time writing academic essays on any subject if you use the type of ridiculous reasoning you have on our countless threads to prove your arguments.

If you want to believe that gay people aren't discriminated against and current laws are applied equally then fine. But we've had debates on so many issues where you just fall flat on yor face.

You are a perfect example of someone whose mind is made up no matter what. That is why so much social progress is made by people dying of old age because they are simply beyond reason.

Your signature is so ironic, because you are blind to your own biases. I may appear ridiculous to you, but to probably a majority of others, it is you who appears ridiculous. I don't appreciate really that you characterize me as ridiculous or closed-minded simply because I disagree with you.

You are an example of someone who can't understand that your idea of social progress is another's example of social decay

 

[HansNZ]

I am supposrd to take you serious????

\



???? What are you taking issue with here? That I am attracted to masculine men?

So you will even tell me that I am not attracted to what I am attracted to to make a point? Are you and idiot?

 

[GinNJuice]

Well when I was being abused and sent countless anonymous threats because of my sexuality on EF, I investigated some gay rights organistaions I could report Elte Fitness to. Essentially what I discovered is that gay people do not have the human rights protections that minorities have in my country. Protection was hit and miss and depended on the locality. Essentially there was a complete absence of laws in many places in the USA preventing discrimination based on sexual orientation.

I'm sorry that some assholes sent you threats.

However, the internet is NOT just the USA right? I mean, you're not in the USA right? Your country has different laws than mine or the next country... so this is NOT a USA law problem.

Secondly, do you think that only gay people are sent anonymous bad karma? I get it all the time. Do you think that only gay people are threatened on EF????? Why should you be any different????????????

On the other hand, why is it anyones (on EF) business who you like to have sex with? You freely offered that information for some reason.

 

[Longhorn85]

You would really have a hard time writing academic essays on any subject if you use the type of ridiculous reasoning you have on our countless threads to prove your arguments.

Oh and by the way, I have done just fine in my academic pursuits, thank you. The only problems I have had is with liberal professors who didn't agree with my premise. Kind of like yourself. Fortunately as a Math major and MBA guy my exposure to those types was kept to a minimum.

 

[flexed1]

Hanz your so off right wing its incredible and of course I mean that with all respect. EVERYONE I come in contact knows I am gay. Why? Because everywhere I go Chris goes with me and I introduce him.

Why do folks not have a problem? You are missing a main point my life is just like everyone else that "they think is normal". We are both good looking, keep to ourselves, act masculine because we are, and gain respect as a couple because we act like non threatening gays.

Yes, I am happy others think here who hate think my version is cool or more acceptable because I have admitted that I to have a problem with camps, fems, and everything else. That does not make me less gay it just makes me the minority as I have had my share of experiences just keep then to myself.

For those on this board who are gay and who have met Chris and I let me say wherever we go we stand out as we look and act different than most everyone else. Thats fact not fiction. We both have a problem with what gays are represented as and both DO make fun of boys acting like girls. Do I walk up to them and bash them No. Do we shake our heads and say thats what the majority think we are like and even the majority here yup you bet.

Fact are straight people make up a majority of our friends because we are a caring and loving couple who act like best friends and have fun with everyone. We make our friends comfortable and at the same point gain respect that there is a difference in what is seen and we even joke especially when we all go out and see girly guys walk by and I say I hate fags. Yup I do sorry just being honest. Guys where not meant to walk around swishing and trying to get others to notice them to cause a reaction. Yes I was born gay no doubt 100% but I was born a man and see no reason to wear a dress or speak about girl this and girl that as in my mind they are throwing there sexuality down folks throats. Thats how 1 or should I say 2 gay people see it and I am sure I am not the only one.

 

[HansNZ]

Oh and by the way, I have done just fine in my academic pursuits, thank you. The only problems I have had is with liberal professors who didn't agree with my premise. Kind of like yourself. Fortunately as a Math major and MBA guy my exposure to those types was kept to a minimum.

I was talking about your academic style rather than the particular subject matter. Liebral/not liberal professors are beside the point.

I doubt a case study based on your type of reasoning would do very well in the US. In academic work you can't make claims without proving them and you can't blow off facts with unprovable theoretical assertions.

Here in New Zealand your analytic approach would be considered ridiculous. If it is acceptable in the USA then that in an indictment of the US education system. But something tells me it isn't. As a small country we also employ at least 50% of our academic staff from overseas to ensure a continual flow of ideas. As such I have had plenty of American professors, and your approach would not get a very good grade from them.

It is hilarious that you are a maths major. I was just thinking today about how people who often like clear definitions between right and wrong are attracted to rigid environments like the military and Christian Fundamentalism. I was thinking about you and wondering whether you tended to be someone who prefered right/wrong subjects such as maths or science.

 

[GinNJuice]

No arguement there, of course discrimination against these people happens, that was not the point that I addressed. Below is your statement that I addressed and it is incorrect.



Again, it is ONLY legal to evict someone for violation of/ or conclusion of a lease.... even then it is still difficult to evict.



Again, "My argument" was based on a false claim that you made above saying it was legal to kick a guy out solely because he is gay. However, when looking to get a new apartment, I don't know how a potiential LL would know who you like to have sex with Even if you were moving in to an apartment with your boyfriend, putting him in the lease, why would you say you're having sex with him? That's personal business right? There should be no difference if you are roomates.



Again, I don't know how it is any business of a LL or employer, who you have sex with And, even if you like to annouce that to everyone you meet, there are laws to protect you... like EOE and EOH

Hmmmmmm, no reply from Muslebrains.... did I disprove his statement, and he doesn't want to reply???

 

[HansNZ]

I'm sorry that some assholes sent you threats.

However, the internet is NOT just the USA right? I mean, you're not in the USA right? Your country has different laws than mine or the next country... so this is NOT a USA law problem.

This site is based in the USA so therefore it is under the jurisdiction of US laws.

Secondly, do you think that only gay people are sent anonymous bad karma? I get it all the time. Do you think that only gay people are threatened on EF????? Why should you be any different????????????

It wasn't an issue of people being mean by sending me anonymous karma. The issue was that it was constantly about the same thing - my homosexuality. At first I ignored it but it was an avalanche and it didin't end. Much of it was very threatening and abusive.

I had also observed the difference in the way racism was being addressed on this site versus gay-bashing. I also felt that this site was overwhelmingly flooded with homophobia and that it was not an environment inclusive of gay people.

On the other hand, why is it anyones (on EF) business who you like to have sex with? You freely offered that information for some reason.

Well there is constant discussion of heterosexuality and people's sex lives which straight people had no trouble/ or hesitation in expressing. In such an environment I would have to deliberately hide my sexuality, not mention huge parts of my life, my partner, or have conversations whereby I had to pretend I was straight simply because the assumption was made that I was.

Also there is SO much gay-bashing on this site and false claims made about people that I respond to these misrepresentations. As such I am know for being gay, and on a daily basis I am responding to gay hating attitudes and getting abusive karma as a result.

Why should I be quiet? Why should I allow people to make false claims and go unchallenged. If I was to start a post saying something bad about Americans it would get an avalanche of replies.

 

[HansNZ]

Hmmmmmm, no reply from Muslebrains.... did I disprove his statement, and he doesn't want to reply???

Probably because he hasn't been online.

 

[musclebrains]

Hmmmmmm, no reply from Muslebrains.... did I disprove his statement, and he doesn't want to reply???

Oh brother. I replied many posts back.

 

[Longhorn85]

No, TTL, housing laws do not apply to everyone. YOu simply can't get that through your head. YOu move into an apartment. You meet a guy. You move him in. It's LEGAL to kick the guy out because he's gay. He didn't have to wear a dress, act queeny or anything else. It happens ALL THE TIME.

Why do you think local statues add "sexual orientation" to employment and housing laws?? Because gay people are NOT protected under the ordinary laws. You just don't get it, do you?

Finally getting around to responding to you. What I can get through my head is that you want it spelled out on the books that you can't discriminate due to sexual orientation. I don't think that is fair to require that of an owner of private property. Protection against sex, age, creed, color discrimination protects us citizens enough in my opinion. Certain behavior patterns may present a problem that the owner of private property shouldn't be required by law to deal with. Putting sexual orientation on the books would mean that as a landlord I would perhaps have to rent my property to a pedophile or some other undesireable.

I imagine the vignette you posted represents a rare occurence.

If some local govts are adding sexual orientation then that is great. There is cleary a demand from the citizenry. Why does it need to be federalized?

 

[GinNJuice]

Oh brother. I replied many posts back.

not to my rebuttal:

http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1639101#post1639101

 

[Longhorn85]

I doubt a case study based on your type of reasoning would do very well in the US. In academic work you can't make claims without proving them and you can't blow off facts with unprovable theoretical assertions.

Can you please address my statement that I feel you are as blind and as closed-minded as you accuse me of being. You feel your positions are correct, period. As a result you see me as closed minded. The fact that you consider the spread and acceptance of homosexuality social progress while I consider it social decay is an example.

You attack my style of reasoning as if you were an authority, when in fact you just don't agree with me. That is condescending and frankly arrogant.

 

[musclebrains]

No arguement there, of course discrimination against these people happens, that was not the point that I addressed. Below is your statement that I addressed and it is incorrect.



Again, it is ONLY legal to evict someone for violation of/ or conclusion of a lease.... even then it is still difficult to evict.



Again, "My argument" was based on a false claim that you made above saying it was legal to kick a guy out solely because he is gay. However, when looking to get a new apartment, I don't know how a potiential LL would know who you like to have sex with Even if you were moving in to an apartment with your boyfriend, putting him in the lease, why would you say you're having sex with him? That's personal business right? There should be no difference if you are roomates.



Again, I don't know how it is any business of a LL or employer, who you have sex with And, even if you like to annouce that to everyone you meet, there are laws to protect you... like EOE and EOH

There are no laws except local ones. You are simply wrong. I repeat my question: Why would local statutes be enacted if there was a general protection?

 

[HansNZ]

Your signature is so ironic, because you are blind to your own biases. I may appear ridiculous to you, but to probably a majority of others, it is you who appears ridiculous. I don't appreciate really that you characterize me as ridiculous or closed-minded simply because I disagree with you.

You are an example of someone who can't understand that your idea of social progress is another's example of social decay

I can't believe I missed this post before.

I am ridiculous? You make arguments based on assertion or because you say the bible/the military/whatever says so. You use the same arguments and principles selectively depedning on what your are trying to "prove". You have these extreme double standards and you seem to point blank refuse to analyse them.

You are closed mindeed, not me, because I base my arguments on FACTS and consistent ideas, I don't just ignore these when they become inconvenient. I have given you countless examples supporting my various points of whatever nature on countless threads and you offer nothing in return except more assertions and more contradictions.

In some threads you said you believe homosexuality is wrong because the bible says so and you believe the bible is truth. If you left it at that then fine. But you then go on claiming to "prove" that the bible is God's word or give scientific evidence of why homosexuality is wrong when the scientific facts don't support you. When you do find yourself in a corner you then say something like "that is only the case because whoever/whatever is working from an agenda. I mean ANYONE can "win" an argument that way.

Like I have said before, debating with you is pointless.

 

[HansNZ]

Putting sexual orientation on the books would mean that as a landlord I would perhaps have to rent my property to a pedophile or some other undesireable.

WHAT??? Please explain how protecting people because of their sexual orientation has anything to do with endorsing the molestation of minors.

 

[GinNJuice]

There are no laws except local ones. You are simply wrong. I repeat my question: Why would local statutes be enacted if there was a general protection?

LOL!!! I was right, you didn't reply on purpose and you still didn't reply to my other points..... admitt it, you are wrong.

Oh, and the great thing about 'Local' laws is, that where ever you go, there is a "local" community and local laws......

Name ONE place in the USA where it is "locally legal" for a LL to evict someone for being gay. ....... I didn't think so!

 

[HansNZ]

Can you please address my statement that I feel you are as blind and as closed-minded as you accuse me of being. You feel your positions are correct, period. As a result you see me as closed minded. The fact that you consider the spread and acceptance of homosexuality social progress while I consider it social decay is an example.

You attack my style of reasoning as if you were an authority, when in fact you just don't agree with me. That is condescending and frankly arrogant.

OH MY GOD!

"You feel your positions are correct, period." WRONG! Unlike you I don't say something is just true. Period. I actually give credible consistent evidence for it.

"The fact that you consider the spread and acceptance of homosexuality social progress while I consider it social decay is an example."

Good for you. I suspect the KKK think equality for blacks is social decay too.

"You attack my style of reasoning as if you were an authority, when in fact you just don't agree with me. That is condescending and frankly arrogant."

If I don't agree with you I say WHY, and offer evidence not assertion and inconsistency. You seem to be endorsing the Osama Bin Laden style of reasoning here: Americans just don't agree with him so therefore they are "condescending and arrogant".

 

[musclebrains]

LOL!!! I was right, you didn't reply on purpose and you still didn't reply to my other points..... admitt it, you are wrong.

Oh, and the great thing about 'Local' laws is, that where ever you go, there is a "local" community and local laws......

Name ONE place in the USA where it is "locally legal" for a LL to evict someone for being gay. ....... I didn't think so!

It is legal anywhere that a landlord reserves the right to terminate a lease with a certan period of notice.

You show me where there's any general law that makes it illegal to discriminate in housing on the basis of sexual orientation. I'm waiting.

 

[Longhorn85]

I am ridiculous?

When you do find yourself in a corner you then say something like "that is only the case because whoever/whatever is working from an agenda. I mean ANYONE can "win" an argument that way.

Like I have said before, debating with you is pointless.

I've never felt like I was in a corner with you Hans, in fact I consider you to be easy pickings. I have never resorted to those tactics you portrayed.

As far as my other point, it is quite easy to see how a pedophile would consider and argue that having sex with minors is a form of sexual orientation.

 

[dballer]

Somebody got mad and told George on us!!!

 

[the nature boy]

Their are straight pedophiles.. but in a percentage.. not nearly as many as the gays.

you don't have statistics do you?

 

[Longhorn85]

1) OH MY GOD!


2) Good for you. I suspect the KKK think equality for blacks is social decay too.

3) If I don't agree with you I say WHY, and offer evidence not assertion and inconsistency.

1) Why do you refer to God since you consider the Bible an non-credible source?

2) I suspect you're right, but they are clearly wrong. (Is that an assertion?)

3) What you consider evidence is not necessarily so. Many times it is merely the opinion of someone published who happens to think like you. Checking my posts you will find that I have offered plenty of similar evidence which just as in your case, reflect my assertions.

 

[GinNJuice]

It is legal anywhere that a landlord reserves the right to terminate a lease with a certan period of notice.

You show me where there's any general law that makes it illegal to discriminate in housing on the basis of sexual orientation. I'm waiting.

FYI a lease is basically a contract. Both parties have to agree to the contract and sign it. If one party puts a contengency in there for cancelling the contract, then the other party has to agree to in writing (signature).

all leases have a "period of notice" clause. For example, If you live in my apartment building and have a 1-yr lease, then if I want you out I have to wait until the end of the lease, minus the notice period to inform you of that and get you out. So, if that periord is 30 days, then I have to inform you at least 11-months into the contract that I intend on terminating the lease at the end....... otherwise it automatically gets renewed to either another 1-yr lease or a Month-to-month. If it does automatically renew then I have to wait until the end of THAT period and then terminate, assuming I gave ample notice.

Look at ANY US local housing law!

 

[the nature boy]

HansNZ, you are wasting your time with this person. To equate pedophiles is nonsense, since straight people molest children too.

Pick and choose your debates with those who are a little more flexible with their thinking.

 

[dballer]

you don't have statistics do you?

I am going soley by who get molested and the fact there are no straight groups lobbying to make it acceptable to fuck little kids!!!!

 

[Longhorn85]

To equate pedophiles is nonsense, since straight people molest children too.

Is it even relevant whether pedophiles are straight or gay? The point is that a pedophile could claim pedophilia as his/her "sexual orientation" and therefore by law, if MB gets his way, can not be discriminated against because of it.

 

[Blue Sky]

About this.. housing...

In the United States federal law makes it illegal for landlords to discriminate based on race, national origin, religion, gender, disability, marital status, age, or family status (the presence of children under 18 in the household)... But federal law does not protect against discrimination based on sexual orientation... So you can be evicted, unless there is a state/county/municipality law that explicitly prohibits it...

California (Chapter 352)
Connecticut (Title 46A §81e)
District of Columbia
Massachusetts (Ch. 151B § 3(6))
Minnesota (Ch. 363.12)
New Hampshire (Title 31, Ch. 354A, § 354-A:8)
New Jersey (Title 10:5-3)
Rhode Island (Title 34, Ch. 34-37, § 34-37-1)
Vermont (Title 9, §4503(1))
Wisconsin

are the... states that explicitly prohibits discrimination against sexual orientation (there may be more.... and there are definiately more local laws that prohibit it..)...

 

[HansNZ]

I've never felt like I was in a corner with you Hans, in fact I consider you to be easy pickings. I have never resorted to those tactics you portrayed.

As far as my other point, it is quite easy to see how a pedophile would consider and argue that having sex with minors is a form of sexual orientation.

I am easy pickings? You are beyond belief. Are you schizophrenic?

Just the other day you made comments about reproduction and nature. Then when I illustrated how this was a flawed argument and cited the manatees example you could offer nothing in return.

pedophilia is abuse and it is illegal as it should be. Two adults having sex with eachother is consentual. Trying to compare them just because they are based on so-called "sexual orientation" is ridiculous.

But I am trying to understand how someone who makes such ridiculous and intellectually retarded comments as you could brush me off as "easy pickings" I can't stop laughing. What sort of deluded fantasy world do you live in? Do your ridiculous claims actually make sense to you? Talk about denial.

I am adding you to my ignore list from now on. You defy belief! You are a complete waste of time.

 

[the nature boy]

I am going soley by who get molested and the fact there are no straight groups lobbying to make it acceptable to fuck little kids!!!!

yeah but NAMBLA isn't an accepted lobbying group, kind of like the KKK. Should all whites be treated like shit because the KKK is composed of whites??????

You tell me.

 

[Longhorn85]

Just the other day you made comments about reproduction and nature. Then when I illustrated how this was a flawed argument and cited the manatees example you could offer nothing in return.

This is bullshit. Ignore me if you wish, but I encourage anyone who reads this to go check the thread out and see how I and others tore apart your weak argument that simply because it occurs in nature it is normal behavior.

And yes, you are easy pickings, and a quitter.

 

[GinNJuice]

Re: About this.. housing...

In the United States federal law makes it illegal for landlords to discriminate based on race, national origin, religion, gender, disability, marital status, age, or family status (the presence of children under 18 in the household)... But federal law does not protect against discrimination based on sexual orientation... So you can be evicted, unless there is a state/county/municipality law that explicitly prohibits it...

California (Chapter 352)
Connecticut (Title 46A §81e)
District of Columbia
Massachusetts (Ch. 151B § 3(6))
Minnesota (Ch. 363.12)
New Hampshire (Title 31, Ch. 354A, § 354-A:8)
New Jersey (Title 10:5-3)
Rhode Island (Title 34, Ch. 34-37, § 34-37-1)
Vermont (Title 9, §4503(1))
Wisconsin

are the... states that explicitly prohibits discrimination against sexual orientation (there may be more.... and there are definiately more local laws that prohibit it..)...

Agreed, there are no FEDERAL laws against it. However, musclebrain's original claim was that a LL can kick a guy out after he finds out he is gay. This is incorrect, and he won't admit it

A lease is a lease is a contract. A LL can only evict for a violation of/ on conclusion of a lease.

 

[the nature boy]

Is it even relevant whether pedophiles are straight or gay? The point is that a pedophile could claim pedophilia as his/her "sexual orientation" and therefore by law, if MB gets his way, can not be discriminated against because of it.

come one man, wake the hell up!!! do you think that having sex with minors is going to be reappealed??? sex with minors is not going to ever be accepted. So don't use pedophelia as an excuse to give homosexuals their fair share of the american pie.

 

[Longhorn85]

But I am trying to understand how someone who makes such ridiculous and intellectually retarded comments as you could brush me off as "easy pickings" I can't stop laughing. What sort of deluded fantasy world do you live in? Do your ridiculous claims actually make sense to you? Talk about denial.

I find your comments just as ridiculous as you consider mine. You are easy pickings because you are using chapter one of the psuedointellectual-liberal-homosexual-anti-american playbook, and it ain't working bud!

 

[dballer]

yeah but NAMBLA isn't an accepted lobbying group, kind of like the KKK. Should all whites be treated like shit because the KKK is composed of whites??????

You tell me.

We are talking straights and gays here man. Black.. white... yellow.. brown.. green and red. We all have this issue. We can leave race out of this. It plays no role in this what-SO-ever.

Now.. I would like to state. That there is not a Hetro group lobbying to make it acceptable for a 40 year old man to ravish a 10 year old boy.

 

[Blue Sky]

GinNJuice,

Actually... I was wondering about that... if there is no law against discrimination based on sexual orientation it seems that the landlord has the liberty to evict his/her tenant based on sexual orientation if the landlord didn't know that before signing the lease... When it comes to the attention of the landlord he is free to take back the lease and... evict you?

(I think, you can also fire an employee after you discover he/she is gay, provided that you have less than 25 employees?? It seems like you can take back your contract provided that you didn't know all the details before signing it....)

 

[Longhorn85]

come one man, wake the hell up!!! do you think that having sex with minors is going to be reappealed??? sex with minors is not going to ever be accepted. So don't use pedophelia as an excuse to give homosexuals their fair share of the american pie.

Why do you guys get so excited when you're wrong? It is not unforseeable to any reasonable person that if it was illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation that some talented lawyer could make pedophilia legal. It is after all, a form of sexual orientation, right?

 

[dballer]

Hanz...
This is what you say to TTLPKG......

But I am trying to understand how someone who makes such ridiculous and intellectually retarded comments as you could brush me off as "easy pickings" I can't stop laughing. What sort of deluded fantasy world do you live in? Do your ridiculous claims actually make sense to you? Talk about denial.

ridiculous and intellectually retarded comments as you ????????


are you kidding?

You are the one who told me that you like young boys!!!!

 

[the nature boy]

is rape a form of sexual orientation? some may say it is. do you think a lawyer might change the law and make rape legal? NO!! same with sex with minors.

So you are wrong. Again.

 

[runner]

Now.. I would like to state. That there is not a Hetro group lobbying to make it acceptable for a 40 year old man to ravish a 10 year old boy.

actually there are numerous heterosexual pro-pedophilia groups in existence. they just don't get the publicity that nambla does.

 

[GinNJuice]

GinNJuice,

Actually... I was wondering about that... if there is no law against discrimination based on sexual orientation it seems that the landlord has the liberty to evict his/her tenant based on sexual orientation if the landlord didn't know that before signing the lease... When it comes to the attention of the landlord he is free to take back the lease and... evict you?

No, that is why the LL has to specifiy so many rules. They can't break the lease unless it is mutually agreed upon or of a violation (those rules) or conclusion of that lease.

On the otherhand, I guess a LL could say in the lease *No homosexual acts to be premitted on the property* And the tenent would have to agree (sign)

However, that would never hold up in court.

 

[the nature boy]

We are talking straights and gays here man. Black.. white... yellow.. brown.. green and red. We all have this issue. We can leave race out of this. It plays no role in this what-SO-ever.

Now.. I would like to state. That there is not a Hetro group lobbying to make it acceptable for a 40 year old man to ravish a 10 year old boy.

yes we are talking straights and gays. but I was trying to make a point.

The point is, NAMBLA may be an "organization" however it'll never be a mainstream organization. There are tons of websites in the world that show pictures of underage girls. And many men have to subscribe to these websites. So this would constitute a loosely organized group of men that enjoy viewing pictures, and, one assumes, enjoys sex with underage girls.

Dballer, would you say NAMBLA is successful at its goal of lobbying to have sex with 10 year old boys legal?

 

[dballer]

Here is the part I do not understand...

Some people like coke.. some like pepsi.
Some like ford.. some like chevys.

We can all disagree... unless you do not find the homosexual lifestyle socially acceptable. This part angers me. I have NO problem with what gay folks do. But why should I be forcefed all of this gay propoghanda? Why should I feel like I am a bad man for wanting to keep my family away from that?

You gay guys keep talking about how you demand all of this freedom. Is putting up the damned flags all over the city, marching around with dildos strapped to your crotch, getting government handouts, national holidays... is that not enough... now you want to bring it into our churchs?? Into my childrens minds?

And I am the bad guy????

 

[musclebrains]

FYI a lease is basically a contract. Both parties have to agree to the contract and sign it. If one party puts a contengency in there for cancelling the contract, then the other party has to agree to in writing (signature).

all leases have a "period of notice" clause. For example, If you live in my apartment building and have a 1-yr lease, then if I want you out I have to wait until the end of the lease, minus the notice period to inform you of that and get you out. So, if that periord is 30 days, then I have to inform you at least 11-months into the contract that I intend on terminating the lease at the end....... otherwise it automatically gets renewed to either another 1-yr lease or a Month-to-month. If it does automatically renew then I have to wait until the end of THAT period and then terminate, assuming I gave ample notice.

Look at ANY US local housing law!

I've already addressed this. I said that my language was inexplicit and that I understand, from a technical perspective, you can argue that the contract protects a person's lease. However, as I said, that does not outlaw discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. (And no, not all leases are guaranteed for a year. I have signed leases that gave the landlord authority to terminate the lease at will with 60 days notice.)

You seem to keep insisting that there are laws, outside the occasional local statute, that prohibit discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. I would like to know what they are. Why do YOU keep avoiding this?

If your reference to what I've not addressed is the business about not identifying your sexual orientation at the time of the lease's execution, that seems silly and extraneous to the argument to me. It's like advocating don't ask/don't tell...except that the landlord isn't bound by the agreement. And that's why local statutes are adopted.

 

[dballer]

Dballer, would you say NAMBLA is successful at its goal of lobbying to have sex with 10 year old boys legal?

A little more sucessful than you think!!! Check out the website. I do know that the female version of the clinton disease helped them take it a few steps closer to your childs backdoor.

 

[the nature boy]

read what flexed1 says dballer. not all gays are like this.

 

[musclebrains]

Re: About this.. housing...

In the United States federal law makes it illegal for landlords to discriminate based on race, national origin, religion, gender, disability, marital status, age, or family status (the presence of children under 18 in the household)... But federal law does not protect against discrimination based on sexual orientation... So you can be evicted, unless there is a state/county/municipality law that explicitly prohibits it...

California (Chapter 352)
Connecticut (Title 46A §81e)
District of Columbia
Massachusetts (Ch. 151B § 3(6))
Minnesota (Ch. 363.12)
New Hampshire (Title 31, Ch. 354A, § 354-A:8)
New Jersey (Title 10:5-3)
Rhode Island (Title 34, Ch. 34-37, § 34-37-1)
Vermont (Title 9, §4503(1))
Wisconsin

are the... states that explicitly prohibits discrimination against sexual orientation (there may be more.... and there are definiately more local laws that prohibit it..)...

Thanks, blue sky

 

[the nature boy]

A little more sucessful than you think!!! Check out the website. I do know that the female version of the clinton disease helped them take it a few steps closer to your childs backdoor.

actually I'd rather not go there.

But I'll let you tell me how hillary clinton helped out. please be specific since I don't know.

 

[musclebrains]

GinNJuice,

Actually... I was wondering about that... if there is no law against discrimination based on sexual orientation it seems that the landlord has the liberty to evict his/her tenant based on sexual orientation if the landlord didn't know that before signing the lease... When it comes to the attention of the landlord he is free to take back the lease and... evict you?

(I think, you can also fire an employee after you discover he/she is gay, provided that you have less than 25 employees?? It seems like you can take back your contract provided that you didn't know all the details before signing it....)

Gin and Juice is avoiding the entire argument of protection because of my use of the word eviction. His argument now is that you sign a lease with your landlord and you are agreeing to abide by the terms. Thus, he says, the landlord can't technically evict you unless the terms of the lease specifically prohibit homosexuality.

What actually has more often been the case is that the lease forbids use of the premises for "illegal activity." Where sodomy is illegal, this became a reason to evict people, or frequently was in the past. (This also occurs in the workplace.) It doesn't happen much in big cities now. A lease can also attempt to regulate, in vague terms, "community standards" and gay people can be evicted for violating these.

 

[Blue Sky]

GinNJuice,

There was a case several years back when a man was asked to leave the house he rented after the landlord found out the tenant was a lawyer (you can discriminate against a persons profession...). The man stayed no more than a month, his lease cancelled, and... a... evicted... So I suppose it could also be done based on... sexual orientation as well... ?? Hmm....??

 

[Blue Sky]

MB,

Actually I wasn't sure if that post was in total synchrony w/ your claims but..

 

[dballer]

read what flexed1 says dballer. not all gays are like this.

You bet your ass!! I did read it and I commented on it. Guys like him are the reason I cannot say I hate all gays.

There is a time and place for everything. The time for sex is behind closed doors with your mate (whoever that might be) Not out in public flouncing around like some limp wristed nelly.

 

[musclebrains]

actually there are numerous heterosexual pro-pedophilia groups in existence. they just don't get the publicity that nambla does.

Exactly -- because people don't need to discredit heterosexuality generally by acting as if the deviants represent more than themselves.

 

[the nature boy]

There is a time and place for everything. The time for sex is behind closed doors with your mate (whoever that might be) Not out in public flouncing around like some limp wristed nelly.

should this apply to everyone, or just gays?

 

[dballer]

should this apply to everyone, or just gays?

EVERYONE!!!!!

 

[musclebrains]

You bet your ass!! I did read it and I commented on it. Guys like him are the reason I cannot say I hate all gays.

There is a time and place for everything. The time for sex is behind closed doors with your mate (whoever that might be) Not out in public flouncing around like some limp wristed nelly.

'

Flouncing about limp-wristedly is not sex -- not any more than your bouncing around a Nascar event, spitting tobacco and scratching your balls.

 

[the nature boy]

*nods in agreement*

 

[Blue Sky]

Ok... Actually it seems like you cannot be evicted during your lease unless there is a just cause... and being gay or lesbian does not constitute a just cause. But in states were sodomy is illegal the landlord can evict you proclaiming that you are engaging in illegal activities... so... that seems to be how this thing works?

 

[dballer]

'

Flouncing about limp-wristedly is not sex -- not any more than your bouncing around a Nascar event, spitting tobacco and scratching your balls.

Correct. But walking around with your boyfriends pecker in your hand is. Walking around with rubber penises strapped to your crotch and buried in the guys ass in front of you is!!!

 

[musclebrains]

Ok... Actually it seems like you cannot be evicted during your lease unless there is a just cause... and being gay or lesbian does not constitute a just cause. But in states were sodomy is illegal the landlord can evict you proclaiming that you are engaging in illegal activities... so... that seems to be how this thing works?

No, I had one client evicted because his being gay was "disorderly" -- it upset the other tenants.

Generally, this is not an eviction issue. It's about getting housing to begin with or renewing the lease.

 

[dballer]

Musclebrains... you do know that I am not a nascar fan and I have never been to a nascar event.

I also do not chew tobacco or make a habit of spitting.

 

[musclebrains]

Musclebrains... you do know that I am not a nascar fan and I have never been to a nascar event.

I also do not chew tobacco or make a habit of spitting.

I'm sure you got my point.

 

[flexed1]

it seems most agree gay is not the problem flauting is and I agree. keep it to yourself and all is fine or should i wear a button that says i am gay and dballer one that says i am straight? don't force your lifestyle or beleifs down anybodies throats and you will gain acceptance pure and simple and this goes for everyone.

 

[musclebrains]

Correct. But walking around with your boyfriends pecker in your hand is. Walking around with rubber penises strapped to your crotch and buried in the guys ass in front of you is!!!

Well what about the fat bitches in New Orleans who attacked me at a hot dog cart and rammed my face in their disgustingly huge tits a few months ago and asked me to serial-fuck them in a bathroom? Huh? HUH? I'm suffering post-traumatic stress disorder from that!

 

[dballer]

Well what about the fat bitches in New Orleans who attacked me at a hot dog cart and rammed my face in their disgustingly huge tits a few months ago and asked me to serial-fuck them in a bathroom? Huh? HUH? I'm suffering post-traumatic stress disorder from that!

Carry mace and use it. You should have maced them. When I am approced by someone who is not straight and they have sex on their mind. They get maced... or milkshaked... hhahahahahaaa

 

[Blue Sky]

MB,

As far as getting a house or renewing a lease... y.. yes... I suppose you can be discriminated against because of your sexual orientation... I thought it was about the cancellation of the lease due to your sexual orientation... Oh.. no... confused I am... Buddha help us all...

 

[GinNJuice]

Ok... Actually it seems like you cannot be evicted during your lease unless there is a just cause... and being gay or lesbian does not constitute a just cause. But in states were sodomy is illegal the landlord can evict you proclaiming that you are engaging in illegal activities... so... that seems to be how this thing works?

Yes this is correct!

 

[GinNJuice]

No, I had one client evicted because his being gay was "disorderly" -- it upset the other tenants.

If this guy had a lawyer worth the paper his degree is printed on, he'd be a rich man!

 

[GinNJuice]

MB,

As far as getting a house or renewing a lease... y.. yes... I suppose you can be discriminated against because of your sexual orientation... I thought it was about the cancellation of the lease due to your sexual orientation... Oh.. no... confused I am... Buddha help us all...

It was about the cancellation of the lease, as per MB's orginal statement to ttlpkg.

However, I guess if a gay man let the LL know who he has sex with, for some reason (should be none of his/her business) , then there is an opportunity for unfair discrimination. That is unfortunate

 

[Blue Sky]

O... Ok I will leave it... at that... my profession has nothing to do with... housing laws so... I don't think I can add anything more profound to this...

 

[HansNZ]

Hanz...

are you kidding?

You are the one who told me that you like young boys!!!!

Say WHAT!!!??????????????????

PLEASE dballer show me any post at any time where I have said this!

In fact dballer I would tread VERY carefully if I were you.

 

[john937]

it seems most agree gay is not the problem flauting is and I agree. keep it to yourself and all is fine or should i wear a button that says i am gay and dballer one that says i am straight? don't force your lifestyle or beleifs down anybodies throats and you will gain acceptance pure and simple and this goes for everyone.

This does not square with history.
Before uppity limp wristed drag queens started rioting, New York police regularly raided gay bars and arrested people just for being there.
Their names were posted in the paper and most lost their jobs.

In the 1980's I helped found a singing group called the "San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus".
We were a Gay community support group and were in no way pornographic,
and yet every time we tried to rent a hall for a concert
or advertise that concert in a newspaper, we had to resort to lawsuits. In the San Francisco Cronicle/Examiner women could advertise their services as an "escort" but we were prohibited from advertising a choral concert.
The small measure of social acceptance gays now enjoy has been purchased on the civil disobediance of prior generations.

 

[HansNZ]

You bet your ass!! I did read it and I commented on it. Guys like him are the reason I cannot say I hate all gays.

There is a time and place for everything. The time for sex is behind closed doors with your mate (whoever that might be) Not out in public flouncing around like some limp wristed nelly.

I am curious as to whether you think public displays of heterosexuality - i.e. hand-holding kissing between men and women should also be kept behind closed doors.

 

[musclebrains]

If this guy had a lawyer worth the paper his degree is printed on, he'd be a rich man!

quite wrong. He had an attorney and the attorney advised him that, in the absence of any regulations, he had very little chance of winning. The question would be whether a private landlord has the right to establish a community standard of heterosexuality. Under the current law, he does. I will say that at the time of his case, sodomy was still illegal in Georgia.

 

[GinNJuice]

In the 1980's I helped found a singing group called the "San Francisco Gay Men's Chorus".

I'm curious, why did you name it that?