HELP! I am 23 and destined for HRT!

[Paulo]

Some of you may have read my thread over in chat, but anyways, basically the score is that I have felt pretty shitty for a couple years now, basically struggling to keep in the gym and not kill myself. So, I finally broke down and had a doc script a slew of blood tests.

Basically, everything else was fine except my test level, my serum level was 252 ng/dl. I also got my free test done and its at 8.3 picograms/ml?.

When I see those "quizes" about low test and andropause, I basically have to check yes on every one. The only thing I don't have a problem with is my penis. It still works pretty well, although, I don't really have much desire to use it. "thanks for sharing!" yeah, sorry bout that.

so, my symptoms and my test levels certainly seem synonymous.

anyways, a little background. I am 23 years old, 6'1 about 198 right now) I have been able to grow somewhat and get stronger, but I feel like I am definitely not where I should be.

Also, I still have somewhat oily skin, a deep voice and lots of facial/body hair. (none on the back thank god) so, it is what leaves me confused. But, I also have softer features and more feminine style fat storage.

I am a fucking mess, I suppose. But I want to change things.

also, are there any natural options that will raise my levels enough? Or will they just help, like nettle and zinc, etc. I take comprehensive "horse-pill" vitamins daily that supply 40mgs of zinc as well, btw.


Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions,

Paulo

 

[Dante Alighieri]

*Edit: Woah, History said this was C & C section. Sorry.

 

[CutEnough]

What does "I have felt pretty shitty for a couple years now" mean - tired, etc? What time of day was the blood test taken?

 

[Nathan]

I asked this on the chat board and I'll ask it again here since I imagine Paulo is probably interested in these responses as well. I want to know the long term effects of HRT on the body. I also would like to know how it might affect fertility and other things. Paulo, did you get your FSH and LH levels checked?

 

[Paulo]

What does "I have felt pretty shitty for a couple years now" mean - tired, etc? What time of day was the blood test taken?

( i copied and pasted this from another link but they hit the nail dead on)

Loss of ability to concentrate
Moodiness and emotionality
Touchiness and irritability
Great timidity
Feeling weak
Inner unrest
Memory failure
Reduced intellectual agility
Passive attitudes
General tiredness
Reduced interest in surroundings
etc.

the blood was drawn mid morning. btw

and nathan, here's a good link about what you are asking.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311529

 

[Lao Tzu]

can't you just take clomid?

 

[evolutionoftherevolution]

Some of you may have read my thread over in chat, but anyways, basically the score is that I have felt pretty shitty for a couple years now, basically struggling to keep in the gym and not kill myself. So, I finally broke down and had a doc script a slew of blood tests.

Basically, everything else was fine except my test level, my serum level was 252 ng/dl. I also got my free test done and its at 8.3 picograms/ml?.

When I see those "quizes" about low test and andropause, I basically have to check yes on every one. The only thing I don't have a problem with is my penis. It still works pretty well, although, I don't really have much desire to use it. "thanks for sharing!" yeah, sorry bout that.

so, my symptoms and my test levels certainly seem synonymous.

anyways, a little background. I am 23 years old, 6'1 about 198 right now) I have been able to grow somewhat and get stronger, but I feel like I am definitely not where I should be.

Also, I still have somewhat oily skin, a deep voice and lots of facial/body hair. (none on the back thank god) so, it is what leaves me confused. But, I also have softer features and more feminine style fat storage.

I am a fucking mess, I suppose. But I want to change things.

also, are there any natural options that will raise my levels enough? Or will they just help, like nettle and zinc, etc. I take comprehensive "horse-pill" vitamins daily that supply 40mgs of zinc as well, btw.


Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions,

Paulo

Just some curious questions:

1) how is your sleep? Are you getting adequate sleep?

2) Do you use recreational drugs and or alchohol?

3) How many steroid cycles have you done and for what duration?

 

[x_muscle]

if you will got on HRT, you may stay on it for life, get your sperm frozen if you want to have some kids.

 

[Lao Tzu]

i honestly dont see why having low test levels would prevent muscle growth. Women have tiny test levels and they can grow muscle. I dont know tons about it though, but its not like having low test would equal no growth.



Look on the bright side, this could change your life for the better if test levels are why you are having those problems listed.

You also left out 'low sex drive' in your list of symptoms, you have commented on having that on more than one occasion over in chat.

 

[Nathan]

( i copied and pasted this from another link but they hit the nail dead on)

Loss of ability to concentrate
Moodiness and emotionality
Touchiness and irritability
Great timidity
Feeling weak
Inner unrest
Memory failure
Reduced intellectual agility
Passive attitudes
General tiredness
Reduced interest in surroundings
etc.

the blood was drawn mid morning. btw

and nathan, here's a good link about what you are asking.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311529

Thank you. This is something I was wondering about and was trying to ask you what your problem is specifically:

In some men, the testes lose their ability to produce testosterone, no matter how much LH is being produced. This type of testosterone deficiency is diagnosed when blood tests show high levels of LH and low levels of testosterone. In other words, the pituitary gland is telling the testes (by secreting LH) to produce testosterone, but the testes have lost their functional ability. So the pituitary gland vainly continues to secrete LH because there is not enough tes-tosterone in the blood to provide a feedback mechanism that would tell the pituitary to shut down. In other cases, the hypothalamus, or pituitary gland, fails to produce sufficient amounts of LH, thus preventing healthy testes from secreting testosterone. Blood testing can determine whether sufficient amounts of LH are being secreted by the pituitary gland and help determine the appropriate therapeutic approach. If serum (blood) testosterone levels are very low, it is important to diagnose the cause, but no matter what the underlying problem, therapies exist today to safely restore testosterone to youthful levels in any man (who does not already have prostate cancer).



So, is it that you aren't rpoducing LH, or are your testes not able to produce testosterone anymore? I imagine with those of us who cycle, we need to be a little more concerned about long term effects shutting down our testes' ability to produce testosterone. They say that they can reverse that in ANY man, but they don't say how. I want to know how. If they can do this without any problems then why would anyone need HRT? Or do they mean they can restore test levels via synthetic test in that case? If it's just your LH production that is poor then something like clomid should be worth a shot. I still have no answers regarding fertility though. Thanks again Paulo.

 

[CutEnough]

Your test levels should be highest in the morning. Because of your age, I would have a couple of more blood tests taken to ensure the accuracy of your levels. Once you start, it's supposedly for life. My levels fluctuated greatly over a few weeks. Also, see an endocrinologist since he may be able to determine other sources that may be causing low test levels - as opposed to a urologist who will simply prescribe testosterone.

 

[Paulo]

i honestly dont see why having low test levels would prevent muscle growth. Women have tiny test levels and they can grow muscle. I dont know tons about it though, but its not like having low test would equal no growth.



Look on the bright side, this could change your life for the better if test levels are why you are having those problems listed.

You also left out 'low sex drive' in your list of symptoms, you have commented on having that on more than one occasion over in chat.

Yes, I mentioned it in the original post on this thread. but i forgot to put it in the actual list.

yeah, I do grow muscle fairly decently, with a shitload of work. I don't recover very fast though, even after doing it for a while, I get tore up.

I haven't gotten the LH or FSH yet, but plan to, also estrogen. I will get those next. Maybe narrow it down better.

 

[evolutionoftherevolution]

Your test levels should be highest in the morning. Because of your age, I would have a couple of more blood tests taken to ensure the accuracy of your levels. Once you start, it's supposedly for life. My levels fluctuated greatly over a few weeks. Also, see an endocrinologist since he may be able to determine other sources that may be causing low test levels - as opposed to a urologist who will simply prescribe testosterone.

I definitely agree with cutenough about getting another test done.

 

[waterboy44]

also, are there any natural options that will raise my levels enough? Or will they just help, like nettle and zinc, etc. I take comprehensive "horse-pill" vitamins daily that supply 40mgs of zinc as well, btw.
Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions,
Paulo

I cant really give much advice on the test levels and hrt because I am not really experienced enough but as for the zinc and other viatamins dont just take one that someone told you will raise natural test because there are alot of factors to consider in those. Ill use zinc as an example because you mentioned it. Many things can effect how well your body uses the zinc you take. For example. Your body cannot absorb 40mgs of zinc in one course, it can (on average) only take up about 10mgs. Also lactose will inhibit the receptors in your intestines for zinc so you need to watch when you take in dairy so id doesnt block the zinc you have taken. Im not sure if this is the right link(i havnt been there in a while) but go here www.vitaminrefernce.com. It has a lot of info on each individual vitamin but youll have to figure out which ones you want to take because this is just a reference to eac individual vitamin. If the link doesnt work just do a search. There are a 1000 referneces like this one on the net. Good luck.

 

[Paulo]

Just some curious questions:

1) how is your sleep? Are you getting adequate sleep?

2) Do you use recreational drugs and or alchohol?

3) How many steroid cycles have you done and for what duration?

1. 7-8 Hours, although, I don't really feel that great when I wake up.

2. No on the drugs, occassional on the alcohol. i.e. once a week or less. Never really been a partier.

3. 0

 

[tboy72]

can't you just take clomid?

did you take clomis post cycle? and to all the pros out there if he did do a proer pct would he or even could he be having these problems?

 

[Davs]

see what the estradiol and gonadotrophins levels are.

If they are off try to fix them first before you go to HRT. The last thing you want is to go on HRT and get too much estrogen in your system because you have aromatase/estrogen problems. You'll feel worse. Also, HRT is complicated, you must find a good doctor to do it if you end up on it and make sure you do weekly shots.

Maybea you should get your pituitary scanned on an MRI.

Maybea you are just stressed out.

maybea you are very sensitive to testosterone and your body doesn't need/want that much in your system because your androgen receptros are very sensitive.

Who knows.

 

[Nathan]

see what the estradiol and gonadotrophins levels are.

If they are off try to fix them first before you go to HRT. The last thing you want is to go on HRT and get too much estrogen in your system because you have aromatase/estrogen problems. You'll feel worse. Also, HRT is complicated, you must find a good doctor to do it if you end up on it and make sure you do weekly shots.

Maybea you should get your pituitary scanned on an MRI.

Maybea you are just stressed out.

maybea you are very sensitive to testosterone and your body doesn't need/want that much in your system because your androgen receptros are very sensitive.

Who knows.

Please don't interpret this as me being rude or a smart ass, but you spelled "maybe" wrong like forty-eight times in your post. I couldn't help myself, I had to say something.

 

[Jenetic]

I'm glad to see people helping out with suggestions.

The key here would be to get a knowlegable doctor who will perform a complete hormonal pallet and evaluation. There are so many factors involved. I really hope you are able to find a qualified doctor. The majority of them out there either aren't familiar or simply aren't willing to deal with this type of issue. I feel your pain brother.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Paulo]

Interesting chart

Here is a chart showing testosterone fluctuations throughout the day.

thought, y'all may find it interesting.

 

[MikeyG]

Paulo- very intresting chart! I did know that it fluctuates during the day and of course the famous 'morning' wood.

anyhow- since you are concerned about low test levels- ever think about taking a month or two off of training? Taking 2 weeks off for me worked wonders not for training- but for overall health. I was becoming overtrained even training 3x weekly (doggcrapp routine can take alot out of you).

just my two IU's

 

[gonelifting]

I`m sorta going through the same thing as you Paulo. It`s been like this for anywhere from 6-12 months. I take a month off and STILL nothing... My drive to work out =ZERO, my effort=ZERO, everything sucks... Every single day is a chore to get to the gym. EVERY SINGLE WORKOUT for months on end! It`s never happened to me before.

My plumbing seems to work though. I know exactly what you`re going through. I`ve never done a cycle but I`m gonna kick start myself with Test to see what happens. I have a feeling I`m gonna be a new person when it kicks in, because I`ve been out of it for SOOO long.

I`m 35 yo though. Good luck.

 

[Paulo]

MikeyG-I have taken a bit of time off training actually, and it hasn't helped.

GoneLifting-sounds like we are in the same boat. Although, I am not as worried if steroids will make me feel important.

Thanks to everyone that has posted! I truly appreciate all your advice and insights.

 

[Paulo]

Well, my doc is going to call me today to set up the treatment program, the outlook sems pretty good. I will fill in the details when we get it all ironed out.

 

[gonelifting]

Well, my doc is going to call me today to set up the treatment program, the outlook sems pretty good. I will fill in the details when we get it all ironed out.

Don`t expect 750/week of Test shot into your glutes bro. He`s gonna give you the love cream to massage into your skinny ass.

 

[envies]

I am a similar situation myself. Always felt that I never responded to my training and diet like I should of, along with many of those sides that you describe also. Got my blood tests back and sure enough, my test levels were below the normal range, 200 something. Got tests done a second time to confirm. So I got an appt with an endocrinoligist in about a week. Will see what he says and report.

Btw, i am 21 yrs old and never done a cycle. Was just about to start my first cycle last december, but got hurt in nov. So I am definitly glad I got everything checked out before I did my cycle or I would of never known the problem and most likely blamed it on the juice, which wasn't the case. At least something good came out of the injury.

 

[concordsize]

I am 22 and am on hrt. I decieded to go to a endo last year and after all the blood work and everything he gave me a script for test. Problem is for some reason even on my perscribed dose my blood levels have stayed the same.

E

 

[slash747]

Dont understand how test works in the body, I shave chest and stomache on a weekly basis and even my beard grows in full in 4 days. But yet I have ranging somwhere between 350-420. As far as strength, Ive been out now for 2 months but when I was going I could incline bench 325 twice which I dont think is bad. I have not gotten a full HPTA blood work so maybee there is something else off there.

 

[unclebully]

GoneLifting-sounds like we are in the same boat. Although, I am not as worried if steroids will make me feel important.

LOL