Has anyone tried Nelson Montana's Post Cycle Alternatives to Clomid?

[Tigrones]

I will use Nelson's post cycle ideas and will post results. I think I've seen and heard all sorts of contradictory statements on this board regarding various topics.
Most (not all) advices to newbies on first cycle are overkill. High dosage, all sorts of anti e's etc.
I am in the middle of my first, 8 week simple, low dosage cycle:

week 1-8 deca 200mg
week 1-4 dbol 30mg ed
week 5-8 winny 30mg ed

At the age of 41, I went from 188 lbs. to 208 lbs so far with phenomenal strength gains and already hard muscle appearance. Hardly any bloatness, no side effects whatsoever of any kind. So I will go herbal with my post cycle recovery and let's see what kind of results I will have say 2 full months after cycle end.

I know that we can't come up with the magic formula that will work for all of us, but I must agree with Nelson that quite often, fellow athletes are unnecessarily taking extra shit that can cause adverse effect.

 

[Nelson Montana]

macro: Are you insinuating it is YOU who informed me that clomid is an mixed antagonist to the ER? That's a bit presumptuous bro.

Not for nothing, but anyone who's read the World Anabolic Review knows that. And that book is 10 years old.

This argument is actually getting ridiculous. Clomid works in some people. That's a fact. It doesn't work in some people. That's a fact too. So why all the dissention?

 

[jubei]

I don't really understand the whole my opinion your opinion idea. The validity of an opinion is directly proportionate to the correctness and relevance of the facts which support it. This being said, obviously all opinions are not as valid as others. If you don't agree with this you are RETARDED.

I think that clomid and nolvadex are both good choices for post cycle therapy, and there is much evidence to support either claim. More important than the choice between clomid/nolva would be the decision to include Hcg as part of the process. This is just my opinion though.

 

[easy]

So i spent 25 minutes reading this thread to basically learn that we all disagree everyone should just experament on themselves. I think I'll try asprin for my next post recovery. J/K. Its good to get both sides of this but ultimately its up to the individual to decide. One mans trash is anothers treasure sorta speak.

easy

 

[liftsiron]

Excellant info as always Macro My personal experience with clomid was fair, I feel a lot better when I use hcg and nolvadex post cycle, than I do when I use clomid and nolvadex. I also experience strength gains from the hgh well after my cycle ends. Clomid tends to give me mood swings and I feel somewhat down while using it, nothing to major though. Clomid does really increase my ejaculate volumn without a doubt.

 

[Burgboy]

I had a guy at the gym swear that clomid causes major depression. He said that he took the stuff post cycle and got the blues......what I found out later in the conversation was that it was his first cycle.....How in the fuck could he diffenciate between post cycle blues and clomid blues....thats where I think a lot of the depression stuff starts....most people are some what "blue" when their cycle ends anyway.

I am one of the guys that responds really well to clomid....their is a marked decrease in time to get my levels back to "normal" when I use clomid.........

Nelson propes short cycles....which I tend to agree with......and with those type of cycles I really don't think clomid helps all that much.....you will recover quickly....in fact after a small 4 week cycle I did....my LH surged after the cycle without any clomid. But I firmly believe that 12-14 week cycles clomid is a good way to help shorten the recovery period.

 

[bbkingpin]

Okay, concerning Clomid. I've addressed this before and yes, I get into more detail in my NEW book:

BOTTOM LINE BODYBUILDING The Cold Hard Facts On Training - Diets - Supplements - and Drugs.
...
Here's a check list of why clomid sucks.
...
It lowers ejaculate volume.

I thought there was a recent (current as of now) sticky saying that Clomid increases your load and that porn stars use it for that reason.

Here is the excerpt from George Spellwin's letter:

"An interesting side effect of Clomid is that it will make you shoot buckets of cum like a porn star -- no kidding. However, for cycle recovery purposes, Nelson explains how it is overrated and probably should be avoided in favor of other drugs."

Nelson he is talking about your book "Bottomline Bodybuilding." This is a total contradiction. Can you please set the record straight.

Also, Nelson:
How long to feel the effects of the herbals (Maca, Avena, etc.)???
I am sure it increases over time but can you feel a difference in sex drive from day one?

 

[manny78]

For a 3 weeks cycle, I wouldn't suggest clomid. I was fairly able to live my post-cycle therapy without clomid and some of its nasty sides BUT I wouldn't advice the same to someone ending a long cycle...

 

[bbkingpin]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Nelson Montana

Okay, concerning Clomid. I've addressed this before and yes, I get into more detail in my NEW book:

BOTTOM LINE BODYBUILDING The Cold Hard Facts On Training - Diets - Supplements - and Drugs.
...
Here's a check list of why clomid sucks.
...
It lowers ejaculate volume.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I thought there was a recent (current as of now) sticky saying that Clomid increases your load and that porn stars use it for that reason.

Here is the excerpt from George Spellwin's letter:

"An interesting side effect of Clomid is that it will make you shoot buckets of cum like a porn star -- no kidding. However, for cycle recovery purposes, Nelson explains how it is overrated and probably should be avoided in favor of other drugs."

Nelson he is talking about your book "Bottomline Bodybuilding." This is a total contradiction. Can you please set the record straight.

Also, Nelson:
How long to feel the effects of the herbals (Maca, Avena, etc.)???
I am sure it increases over time but can you feel a difference in sex drive from day one?

THIS IS THE QUESTION FOR NELSON /\

 

[Rio 2001]

My thoughts on this:

Clomid is effective raising LH, and that has more than enough evidence. However, and I have seen A LOT of blood work on this, normal level of LH does not translate into normal test levels imediately, specially when testis are severely atrophyed. So, it is quite common to have an hypothalamus and pituitary recovery without an immediate testis recovery. During High LH/low testosterone period, the subject can feel the usual post cycle crash, but that is not caused by Clomid, it's caused by a shitty Test to est ratio and other hormonal fluctuations. Since testis are not responding yet, the subject can think not only Clomid is not working but it is worsening the clinical symptomatology, and that would be a wrongful interpretation of the whole situation.

Keeping your testis at the fullest size possible during a cycle is IMHO KEY to a faster recovery. That can be acomplished by periodical HCG shots and some say anti aromatase too, but I'm yet to see blood work on this, since there is not any study to my knowledge that measured LH level during AAS /anti-aromatase administration. And anti A do damage lipid profile, and one has to be careful on what AAS are being used to avoid further damage.

HCG post cycle...No. that will further damp HP.

I think the best option is to go with HCG or anti-A during cycle, depending on the characterystics to keep the boys from atrophy, and do Clomid after it. For the phase when HP is recovering but testis are still dormant, low dose Proviron, herbals ( Maca, avena, marapuama, etc..."herbal viagra') would work great.