Has anyone tried Nelson Montana's Post Cycle Alternatives to Clomid?

[speller]

the major side effect i personally saw from clomid was loss of libido. killed my hardons, my girlfriend was the first to point this out. accompanied with this loss-of-a-hardon-24/7 was lowered ejaculation amount. it was as if i was shooting duds. every depressing. and yes clomid fucked with my mood. personally i experienced more "noticeable" side effects from clomid than i did from juice.
would i include it in my next post cycle?? im definitally going to stay attentive on the subject and do a lot of reading. only time will tell.
speller

 

[Stank]

I have tried Proviron vs Clomid and would say Proviron is a better choice.

 

[Rio 2001]

There is a recent study on Clomid that everybody is quoting,"Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse", where 100mg Clomid were used during 8 weeks to reverse HPTA inhibition. One can ask: 8 weeks ????It could be recovered even without it! Yes, I thought of that, but if you read the full text, you will find that there was a 5 day challenge 100mg/ED dose that temporarily raised LH and test levels. Since they were reinhibited after challenge dose was discontinued, they decided to give it a go for 8 more weeks, when finally recovery was complete and steady.
Be as it may,it is only a CASE REPORT, not a prospective, randomized, controlled study, but ANYTHING directly regarding AAS use FOR BBDERS is pure gold, since we have an enormous amount of brain cooking trying to stretch results from post-menopause-breast-cancered-over-80-year-old-females to our reality.

 

[Singleton]

it's just for the shock value of going against the grain, then Im shocked (that anyone could be so stupid).

That Nelson took this personally indicates that the if condition applies (maybe).

Break it down.

if condition
then logical_implication

It can be said that the condition implies the logical_implication; that the logical_implication is implied by the condition.

So Nelson got mad. It is because the condition is true? Only Nelson knows.

Next of interest:

What are all these detrimental effects of clomid? Do i have to buy your book to find out? Why does no one here experience them?
Why are there so many scientific studies that tend to suggest the exact opposite of what you say?

Weren't answered. Instead, the askee issued an ad hominem on the asker.

(Note that answering the question is not required.)

What makes one opinion credible and another one that just anybody can pull out of ther ass, is the logic supporting it.

Opinion is "belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge"
-mirriam webster

The concern here is the use of the word "opinion" when talking about biological reaction of post-cycle clomid therapy. A strong deductive argument supported by evidence would be nice.

Also, I would like an answer to the original question (just for my interest)

Has anyone tried Nelson Montana's Post Cycle Alternatives to Clomid?

 

[Curious George]

I love it when somebody tries to debate Mac. Fultile, but very entertaining!

 

[Singleton]

Mac wasn't cited anywhere there.

I have relatively little knowledge of post cycle therapy. I need to know. Just trying to get things clear.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hmmm, should I ttempt to correct Singletons pretentious attempt at skewed logic? Let's see...if someone is offended by something false, inflamatory and accusatory, it's because there's truth to the statement? That's just dumb.

Let's address something more worthwhile.

Regarding the detremental effects of Clomid: It's been stated many times over.

Next point.

Clomids negitive side effects are NOT the result of post cycle depression. Many people (including myself) have used Clomid in between cycles and experienced the same shitty side effects. That settles that.

The same misunderstanding goes for the research studies on the benefits clomid. As Rio brought up -- they show that LH in supressed individuals increased over time, but LH will increase over time WITHOUT Clomid. And as speller mentioned, it's really a lbido killer in many people.

The statement made by George about the buckets of cum is one with which I simply disagree. It's one of those rumors that has been parroted so often it's taken as fact, when in reality it's a myth. (Yeah, yeah, some people claim it worked so I won't argue. But there's absolutely no evidence to that occuring nor do I see any scientific reason why it would. Even if Clomid increase sperm count, which is arguable, that has nothing to do with ejaculate volume. But, whatever).

As far as Avena -- it'll help, but how well and how fast is impossible to say. Some people notice it immediatly while others need to build it up for a while. There are simply too many factors involved. I do believe Xanthroparmia's effects are quite instantaneous -- not in regard to hormone production or even libido, but erectile function. Much like viagra, you'll be able to get it up, even if you're not in the mood. But of course, once it's up, it's easy to get in the mood.

 

[Singleton]

If someone is offended by something false, inflamatory and accusatory, it's because there's truth to the statement.

Logical implication:

let S = false_statement;

if( is someone offended by S)
S is true.

Therefore, all false statements which cause offense must be true.

Hmmm. Think about it.

I'm not denying my ignorance in post cycle therapy, and contrary to what nelson thinks, I'm not out to get him. However, I don't take kindly to being called dumb and my argument is not pretentious.

So has anyone tried those exotic herbs? Nelson, how about you? I haven't even heard of some of the stuff. Tell us about it.

 

[bigguns]

ok, now i need to put my 2 cents in. first of all high estrogen levels is not a high catabolic condition. you guys need to relize anabolics work in two ways. 1 they enhance protein uptake and
2 they are anti catabolic by preventing cortisol from breaking down muscle tisue. one of the reasons you have more achs and pains and feel like shit when coming off a long cycle.nothing to do with low test . remember when you have a severe injury what does a docter give you? a cortisone shot to relive inflamation.
steroids main efect is its anticatabolic effect period. so a good post cycle would be using proviron with hcg or clomid as it does work for most and also including clen an anti catabolic drug there is one i cannot remmeber the correct spelling but it is used in cushings disease which is when the body produces to much cortisol. when you end acycle you need to deal with all the problems not just increasing test and reduceing estrogen only dealing with part of the problem is why so many are having not getting success.

 

[bigguns]

aminogluthimide is the drug known as cytdren. proviron ,clomid and cytdren would do the trick.