Good Price for 1-AD?

[bradoneal]

Hey - 1st post!

I've been reading for months about just about everyone's success on 1-AD (Now I see Boldione seems to be good as well from what I've read). I've been stuck at my present size and strength levels forever fo I decided to chance 1-AD. I've never done any PH's before and no AAS either. So, maybe I will be a good test subject (or maybe not). Anyway it seems that this stuff is rather pricey So I did some research and got a price of $81.25 for two bottles (this included the ship charges).

First, it looks like from what people are saying, it will probably be 4 bottles to do a cycle. That means $162.50. Not bad I guess considering all the money I wasted on other supplements that were not PH's. (It the gains are there. Since the cash outlay is there, is this a good price to pay? I think it is since I looked through quite a few sites.

Second, I have the bottles sitting here waiting for me to open. Should I start with 3 per day and gradually increase to 6-9 per day? That is what I seem to be getting from the other threads. But I just want some feedbackso that I don't end up blowing my first cycle. Also, food intake - is it the protein amount per day that is the most important/How much?

Thanks!

 

[rikk]

Cheaper bottles out there

Do a Google search just for 1-ad or 1-androstenediol.
Much cheaper prices out there for reputable companies!

 

[LethalGunz34]

You can check www.bodybuilding.com for good prices on all supplements

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

I did a cycle of boldione and 1-AD. read my thread for the info. its called 1-AD and Boldione: the sides and everything else

make sure you get your diet in order. take in a lot of protein and a lot of clean carbs and some good fats. do this and train hard and you will gain.

btw, what are your stats?

 

[bradoneal]

I'm 31 years old, 6'2" and 203. Been in the 200-205 lb. range for almost a year now. About 10%BF (I use calipers so not sure how accurate ubt it is at least a guideline). Not particularly strong, bench about 275 max. But this will be my first chance to do any enhancement!!! Checking the 1-AD-Boldione thread now - looks like good progress was made using the combination of 1-AD and Boldione. I think what I will do is a cycle with 1-AD first, then combine the 2. See if I do better with both.

Thanks for the links. So far I found the best prices as follows:

HDT brand 1-AD (anybody use that?? I have been reading only about ErgoPharm)... www.bodybuilding.com .. $34.98 + $2.99 Ship = $37.97 total price.

ErgoPharm 1-AD ... www.musclefast.com .. $38.50 +$4.25 Ship(2nd day) = $42.75 Total price. Or 2 at $38.50 each +$4.25 Ship.

Best price on most other supplements at ...www.dpsnutrition.com. I found Molecular Nutrition Boldione there for $33.99 + $4.90 Ship = $38.89 total price.

Still wanting to know how I should cycle the 1-AD, I took first this morning. Going to take 3 per day for first week unless I hear otherwise from you guys. Thanks.

 

[2KVetteMan]

Bradoneal, the first week take 3 pills a day, increase every week as you have read that how everyone has been doing and getting good results. I started on another cycle with 1-AD and Boldione and will keep everyone informed when I start a post to report the progress,

Good luck and remember eat well or you are just wasting the money and product.

Cheers!!!!

Nutri-Wrestler thanks for the thread as well I read it and was looking at the same results hopefully.

 

[bradoneal]

Thanks for the info.

I will keep track of results as well and post. Here is what I plan to do:

Week 1: 1 Tab - 3 times per day
Week 2: 2 Tabs - 3 times per day
Week 3: 3 Tabs-3 Times per day

After weeks 3 I will either stop for 3 weeks and pick it up again after a 3 week break or go an attitional 3 weeks (6 weeks total) and then take 6 weeks off. This is what I think I have gathered from the other threads about how to cycle the stuff. I'll track, bench, curl info, weight, LBM, and %BF. Any additional cycle info/input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[ripd2shred]

Bradoneal

Sounds like you got a little ripped off!!!


WWW.MASSNUTRITION.COM has 1-Ad for $36.95 and has a flat

rate shipping of $5.95 so you could get 4 bottles for $153.75.

Check them out. Their prices are absolutely the lowest on the

net and their service is the best I've seen yet.



Peace

Rip'd

 

[bradoneal]

Thanks, but I still paid a better price (do the math). But I will check them out for the other stuff and also find out if I can get flat ship rates for more than 2 bottles. But I doubt I would actually buy 5 at a time. Never seem to have that much extra floating around

 

[zukofsu]

I did a cycle of 1ad only about 6+ months ago and was very pleased with the results......


I had ordered from dpsnutrition (which I know has very good prices and very fast shipping to my house)...........though I think that www.kilosports.com

has the best prices.....you can order the bulk powder and cap yourself with an inexpensive machine they sell. I have never ordered from them but I am trying this time.......will let you know how it goes..

Cya

 

[1fast400]

I'll never be the lowest on the net, but I'll be close. What I miss in penny wars, I win back in customer service. Each customer is provided with a tracking number and same day shipping.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Save your money bro. Nobody ever grew an once of muscle form PH's. It's all placebo (and a little water retention). Even the people who market it dont take it. (I worked for a supplement company)

A weeks worth of 1AD is comparable to about 10 mgs of testosterone, which everyone knows won't do a thing. The increase in estrogen, however, is closer to a dose of about 200mgs.

 

[1fast400]

Nobody ever grew an once of muscle form PH's. It's all placebo

So I guess customers I see in person who gain muscle from PH is all placebo effect? I guess that goes for all of these internet post about it working as well?

 

[rikk]

Save your money bro. Nobody ever grew an once of muscle form PH's. It's all placebo (and a little water retention). Even the people who market it dont take it. (I worked for a supplement company)

Yeah Right!

I definietly am getting some great gains. Don't knock 'em until you try 'em which I am sure you haven't since you think theyre shit!

ASS

Montana

 

[bradoneal]

Nelson Montana -

You may be right. I have taken everything (Including the stupid rip-off Myo-Blast Myostatin CRAP) and stll cant get past the 200-205 lb. range. I REALLY thought that was going to work. So, if a placebo effect ever was going to take place it was then. But it didn't happen.

I'm only on day 2 of 1-AD. I chose it because I found this board and it seemed to be the only suplement I could find that more than just a couple people liked. So we'll see. If I don't get anything from this, I will try your book. And I will post my results (or lack of them here). I have no financial gain in this so I think I can be more honest with my actual experience with it.

One question though, if your book is the truth, and I assume more than one person has purchased it, why doesn't the "truth" spread like wildfire? Maybe you have answered that in your book - I don't know. But the news about 1-AD is all over this board and I assume others. So, my logic says that if your book has some undiscovered truth - it should be spreading like wildfire. Or maybe your book is real new. What do you think?

 

[Scaggs]

Montana.... I'm sure that a majority of supps are scams. I believe you when you say that. However.... 1-AD and 1-test is not placebo. I don't buy it for a second. My Squat didn't jump 40 lbs past my plateau from placebo . I'm On my 3rd week of 1-test and everything is going up and i have not changed anything but added the 1-test. Not only to say that my recovery time is cut in half. I can't stay swore for more than a day. Two days later i'm ready to hit that same muscle group hard again. I've never exp recovery like that before. As for Myostim or Myostat. I agree. Its BULLSHIT. A Scam at taking your money. I didn't get shit off of 3 months cycling Myostat. I wish i could fuck them up for stealing my money.

Scaggs

 

[Nelson Montana]

Where do I start? rikk, do you think I never tried them? I tried them before they were available to the public. I used to get unlimited amounts of them for free.

True, I don't use them now. But either do the people who make that crap. They know it's bogus.

Yes, they are a placebo but nobody likes to think that they've been "had." Some of you may remember "Hot Stuff."Thousands of people swore it worked. What happened? If it worked, everyone would still use it.

To those who made gains, it could be due to the water retention which has a temporary hydraulic effect. (Creatine does the same thing) This gets people excited so they start training with enthusiasm and make progress.

There's no shame in being duped, just not in learning from it.

 

[Scaggs]

Well if that is true, them even still, if placebo is what urges enthusiasm and more disciplined training, its a good thing. Worth the money? ....... whatever gets you motivated.

If true, that is really sad that all these supps are fakes and do nothing to advance physic and strength. If they are all fakes why are they banned from the Olympics if they don't give the athletes an advantage?

Scaggs

 

[rikk]

There's no shame in being duped, just not in learning from it.

I agreewith this if it were true. Yes I have tried several supps in the past that didnt work like they said they were supposed to. Yes I agree that if you don't learn from your mistakes, you're a fool indeed.

BUT!, I truly believe that 1-AD and 1-TEST work! There obviously are no double-blind studies which have been conducted yet on either of these due to the high expense involved with a clinical research study but this doen not mean something does not work!

Take a look back a creatine,,

When it first came out thre were thousands of people saying their strength was going up and they were looking pumped. Well there were also the handful that said it is total crap. Some of the supp companies were later discovered as not using 100% creatine monohydrate and putting fillers in there. Well this obviously did reduce gains some could have had while using it. I think this is what is going to happen when a new product comes out. Since then, there have been studies to the efficacy of creatine and it had been proven.

Somthing else I believe is that some people will respond better to certain supps than others will. I know friends that no matter how much creatine they took it just did not work for them. I think this applies to pro-hormones as well. Genetics must play a big part in this, just like they play a big part in steroid use.

My gains while using 1-AD have been exceptional. I did not change my workout routine to compensate in any way when I started the cycle because I wanted to make sure it was the 1-AD working and not me just 'wanting' it to work. I am sure some of it is water gain, but i cant hid the increase in strength, pump, and vascularity. With the latter being the biggest difference. Where I was lean before I seem to be even leaner now. Veins popping along my shoulders and chest where I never really saw them before. At least not as pronounced as they now are.

I highly recommend 1-AD. I am in no way affiliated with any company who sells/manufacters the stuff. I wouldnt be surprised if these pro-hormones are outlawed soon because I am sure their popularity will sky-rocket as more and more people use them.

I am done.

Time to hit the weights.

Peace out Montana, we all have our opinions!

Rick

 

[Scaggs]

BradOneal
You may be right. I have taken everything (Including the stupid rip-off Myo-Blast Myostatin CRAP) and stll cant get past the 200-205 lb. range. I REALLY thought that was going to work. So, if a placebo effect ever was going to take place it was then. But it didn't happen.

Thats true. I took myostatin for 3 months and did not get any placebo. I didn't have any large spikes in weight increases like i did with 1-test. If i were to get placebo off of 1-test i would have gotten near the same placebo with the myostatin. I took 3 months of that crap. I believed in it but it just did not produce in the gym.

Scaggs

 

[Nelson Montana]

Sorry to hear you've been ripped off Scaggs. We've all been there. The fact that pro-hormones cause water retention is what makes it seem like it has tangible effects. As far as the research done on it...well, those studies are almost always skewed. If someone wanted to fund a study to prove that Rhode Island is bigger than Alaska, they could do it. There have been more reputable studies conducted which show 1-AD to be completely inert, other than the fact that they elevate estrogen.

The same goes for glutamine. I said for years it doesn't do a thing. So many "authorities" disagreed. Well, a non-commissioned study (not funded by a supplement company) has just been done by a research department in Miami on the effects of glutamine among conditioned athletes. The result: No effect. Yet, millions of dollars worth of glutamine is sold every day.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Oh yeah, Brad, I believe this information will spread like wild fire. It's just that most of the people who have a voice in the industry have something to sell. I guess if I were smart, I'd use my position to make a lot of money conning people into buying worthless crap -- but that's not me. I have other interests in life. I compiled "The Bodybuilding Truth" in order to offer an alternative. Of course I want it to sell well and make money, but nobody ever got rich selling knowledge. They get rich by being deceitful. And there are a lot of rich people in the bodybuilding industry.

 

[1fast400]

There have been more reputable studies conducted which show 1-AD to be completely inert

Give 1 reference...

 

[pa1ad]

Montana.... I'm sure that a majority of supps are scams. I believe you when you say that. However.... 1-AD and 1-test is not placebo. I don't buy it for a second. My Squat didn't jump 40 lbs past my plateau from placebo . I'm On my 3rd week of 1-test and everything is going up and i have not changed anything but added the 1-test. Not only to say that my recovery time is cut in half. I can't stay swore for more than a day. Two days later i'm ready to hit that same muscle group hard again. I've never exp recovery like that before. As for Myostim or Myostat. I agree. Its BULLSHIT. A Scam at taking your money. I didn't get shit off of 3 months cycling Myostat. I wish i could fuck them up for stealing my money.

Scaggs

I believe that since I am the person who developed 1-AD then I must be a con artist in his eyes. Thanks Nelson, I will remember this

 

[pa1ad]

Where do I start? rikk, do you think I never tried them? I tried them before they were available to the public. I used to get unlimited amounts of them for free.

True, I don't use them now. But either do the people who make that crap. They know it's bogus.

Yes, they are a placebo but nobody likes to think that they've been "had." Some of you may remember "Hot Stuff."Thousands of people swore it worked. What happened? If it worked, everyone would still use it.

To those who made gains, it could be due to the water retention which has a temporary hydraulic effect. (Creatine does the same thing) This gets people excited so they start training with enthusiasm and make progress.

There's no shame in being duped, just not in learning from it.

Nelson tried old generation prohormones. He has never tried 1-AD or 1-test, nor does he have the knowledge to understand what makes them different. He just conveniently paints all prohormones with the same broad stroke. He is content in his own ignorance of the subject and in his self-righteous convictions - which should make all of you think twice about buying a book on supplements from the guy

 

[pa1ad]

Give 1 reference...

Nelson Montana is so ignorant when it comes to prohormones (and perhaps other supplements too??) that he likely does not know the difference betweeen 1-AD and other prohromones like androstenedione and 4-AD. Any references he gives you will NOT be ones on 1-AD because there have never been any studies done on 1-AD (except for an unpublished study on blood that was a disaster)

Once Nelson figures this out, perhaps he will offer an apology and admit that he does NOT know that much about 1-AD and then he will offer an open mind about it.

Doubt it though. He is just another one of these guys that hates supplement companies and has closed his mind. But hey, I used to hate supplement companies too (back when they all were dishonest), so I can at least empathize with him a little. Just a little

 

[bradoneal]

Nutri-Wrestler:

You had the great results. Is it too soon to know what you were abole to maintain. I was talking with someone who did 1-AD. He said he kept most of the strength increases in most lifts. But not so much in others. He wasn't watching for muscle gain so he can't report that. I loked like you posted both. I would be interesting to see how you are doing post Cycle.

Also, PA1AD - How is this stuff best cycles. Will 3 weeks on/3off and on and on do the trick?

 

[Nelson Montana]

Well, I have tried 1-AD and for what it's worth, all it did was bloat me and kill my libido for about 2 weeks afterward.

True, most of the studies were done on the older formulations, but there were thousands of people who swore that they worked too! What happened? And why is it that the developer of this stuff didn't know how much those old formulations sucked until after the profits rolled in?

Does anyone remember cyclodextrins? They were supposed to be the answer. What happened to them?

PA, I don't want to go head to head with you on the science of prohormones because I never claimed to be a scientist, but knowledge of the chemistry of a substance is irelevant to the fact of whether it has merit or not. I realize you make money by selling a product that I've found to be ineffective. Of course, you're going to disagree with me.

I have nothing against supplements, nor is my book just about supplements. But you know as well as I, PA, that the industry is a cesspool.

You say you'll "remember this"? Good. I remember things too. (Since Rick is a mutual friend, maybe we can each get some free legal advice and see who has the better case.)

I'm offering my perspective -- one that comes from many more years than you've been involved with bodybuilding. People can judge for themselves.

 

[Scaggs]

Lots of controversy. Maybe your placebo Nelson is for 1-AD to not work. So you're fatigued and drained before you even hit the iron. This causing lack of dicipline and fucus on target muscles which in turn forced you to neglect proper nutrition and rest. Creating a domino effect in a downward motion.

Not bashing you... Just trying to give you another perspective. Like i said before, i believe there are tons of scam artist companies out there selling crap. We do all fall victom to that from time to time but eventually there will be someone who is tired of false claims and will produce a product that meets its claims and say screw the supplement world of "lets give them slow results so they keep buying our crap" and develop something that works. 1-AD....

Let me ask you something Nelson, Is Winstrol placebo? Is D-bol placebo? What about Primobolan? I'm sure you will agree they are not. So why can't 1-AD which is similar in make up be as anabolic as some of these. Why can't it be possible to have a pro-hormone to mimic the effects of AS legally and safely?

PS... I do appreciate your side of things as well. Don't take this as a bashing.

Scaggs

 

[1fast400]

I guess all of my instore customers that come back to buy 1-AD, just like it for the placebo effect. I didn't know placebo effect could increase your bench so much when you had hit a sticking point.

Nelson, you have no idea what your talking about on this subject.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Good points Scaggs. I'll try to address them as well as possible.

Opposite placebo? Interesting. But you have to realize, I've been at this for a l-o-n-g time, so I'm not expecting spurts of growth. HOWEVER, if I were to take a REAL roid, well...I'd get results beyond what would be possible with my normal training routine. That didn't happen with 1-AD. And the loss of libido isn't placebo. That was very real. (Man, that sucked -- never even happened after a real cycle).

I wonder if the inventors and maufacturers of this stuff use it instead of steroids? Just a thought.

I honestly believe that if someone could make an effective product, they would. But they can't. And if they did, it would never be allowed on the market. Besides, if anything like that does get invented, it won't be by some supplement manufacturer. It'll be by a real scientist.

Why can't 1-AD work if it's similar to the structure of Primobolin? Well,a piece of furnitue that's made of compressed sawdust is SIMILAR to a solid wood piece. Skim milk is SIMILAR to whole milk. A monkeys DNA is SIMILAR to a humans that it's just one step away from a humans DNA. But that's a BIG step. Hey, you can keep going with this, can't you? Imitation crab meat is SIMILAR to crab meat. A man's ass is SIMILAR to a womans ass...

Similar isn't the same.

From here on in, I'm going to avoid discussing this on forums. It's too time consuming. If anyone wants the full story, they can read the book. And for anyone who has used a "muscle building" supplement and thinks it was effective, be it placebo or not -- whatever works. But I've experienced the way this business works from the inside. I have to call it as I see it.

 

[Scaggs]

Points well taken.

Scaggs

 

[pa1ad]

Good points Scaggs. I'll try to address them as well as possible.

Opposite placebo? Interesting. But you have to realize, I've been at this for a l-o-n-g time, so I'm not expecting spurts of growth. HOWEVER, if I were to take a REAL roid, well...I'd get results beyond what would be possible with my normal training routine. That didn't happen with 1-AD. And the loss of libido isn't placebo. That was very real. (Man, that sucked -- never even happened after a real cycle).

I wonder if the inventors and maufacturers of this stuff use it instead of steroids? Just a thought.

I honestly believe that if someone could make an effective product, they would. But they can't. And if they did, it would never be allowed on the market. Besides, if anything like that does get invented, it won't be by some supplement manufacturer. It'll be by a real scientist.

Why can't 1-AD work if it's similar to the structure of Primobolin? Well,a piece of furnitue that's made of compressed sawdust is SIMILAR to a solid wood piece. Skim milk is SIMILAR to whole milk. A monkeys DNA is SIMILAR to a humans that it's just one step away from a humans DNA. But that's a BIG step. Hey, you can keep going with this, can't you? Imitation crab meat is SIMILAR to crab meat. A man's ass is SIMILAR to a womans ass...

Similar isn't the same.

From here on in, I'm going to avoid discussing this on forums. It's too time consuming. If anyone wants the full story, they can read the book. And for anyone who has used a "muscle building" supplement and thinks it was effective, be it placebo or not -- whatever works. But I've experienced the way this business works from the inside. I have to call it as I see it.

So I am not a real scientist?

 

[bdog527]

Well....

I guess the 12lbs. (9 of which were kept) I gained from a 1AD/4AD stack were placebo muscles. Gosh and they look so real too!

 

[rikk]

Nelson

Just because you wrote a book on old supplements it does not make you an expert on current ones. Old supps are mainly crap. New one like Creatine, 1-AD, 1-Test are much better and I think will eventually be proven with studies.

So you write a book and you think you know it all.

Hell, Hillary Clinton wrote a book! Big Whoop!

Remember, there are Fiction and Non-Fiction books.

I dont think yours qualifies as Non-Fiction.

More like Fantasy Fiction, found on the same aisle as Star Trek.

 

[Quietman54]

This is a Pretty good and cheap website to find Supplements on.

www.myvitanet.com

1-AD 100mg 1-androstene-3beta, 17beta-diol 60 Capsules $36.25 Ergopharm


Andro Spray 240cc 28.00 Ergopharm


If your going to use 1ad make sure you take the Androspray with it.

Other than that your probably better to invest in the real stuff if you can find it.

Some Fina and Test Cypionate would be great LOL

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

Nutri-Wrestler:

You had the great results. Is it too soon to know what you were abole to maintain. I was talking with someone who did 1-AD. He said he kept most of the strength increases in most lifts. But not so much in others. He wasn't watching for muscle gain so he can't report that. I loked like you posted both. I would be interesting to see how you are doing post Cycle.

Also, PA1AD - How is this stuff best cycles. Will 3 weeks on/3off and on and on do the trick?

I lost about 4 pounds post cycle, however, i quickly gained them back. I have been off 1-AD and Boldione for about 6 weeks i guess

 

[ripd2shred]

RIKK

WWW.MASSNUTRITION.COM has Ergo's Andro Spray for $25.50.

Their prices are the best so far I have seen. Check them out or

call: 866-577-MASS


peace
ripd

 

[grafix-GNC]

I did a cycle of boldione and 1-AD. read my thread for the info. its called 1-AD and Boldione: the sides and everything else

make sure you get your diet in order. take in a lot of protein and a lot of clean carbs and some good fats. do this and train hard and you will gain.

btw, what are your stats?

Nutri-Wrestler is my brother and i watched him turn from a little scronny punk to a friggin beast, it works if you have the dedication that he has, props to him, PM to get his info as far as training

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

aww, thanks reid. hopefully i will get bigger by contest time. btw, i am comin home tomorrow so get ur money together

 

[grafix-GNC]

aww, thanks reid. hopefully i will get bigger by contest time. btw, i am comin home tomorrow so get ur money together

money for what? hehe

 

[bradoneal]

Nelson Montana....

I got your book. Very interesting reading. I tried the biceps move you suggest with the cables. I must admit I am quite surprised at how sore my biceps are. I am no weakling with curls - I use 70 lb. dumbbells with no soreness afterward so this was a surprise. I think I might wait do do the rest until after I do the 1-AD (I don't want to skew the results). The one exception being legs because they suck anyway!

You don't mention anything in your book about several things & I'd be curious to hear what you have to say about number of times to lift per week, how often to switch doing your exercises (I imagine you don't always do the same routine do you? Or is it that good that you don't have to switch up? What I mean is, how long can I do the cable exercise, for example before I better find something else to do? Also, you don't mention any type of protein minimums or suggestions &/or diet related info. I figure this might be a little more important than the training itself. You can reply here if you would or email me at [email protected].

Thanks!

PS - 1 week complete with 1-AD tomorrow - 1st update to follow.

 

[bradoneal]

Ok, 1-Full week with 1-AD:

Weight 205 (+2lbs). Measurements and lifts the same - no strength gains. Weight is at the top level I've been at over past 6 months. Breaking through that will mean something to me. 1st. week - 300 mg. (3 X per day)

Now 600 mg. per day starting tomorrow.

 

[Scaggs]

Hey keep posting results bro.

Scaggs

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hey Brad,
Glad to hear you enjoyed the book. That bicep move makes all the difference, doesn't it? As with any exercise, it'll go stale after a month or so. Do it until it stops producing results, at which point, take a break, and come back to it a few weeks later.

Since you say your legs suck, you're going to love the "4 minutes a week" calve workout. People tell me they can't walk for days afterward!

Concerning workout frequency: 4 workouts a week, 2 muscle groups a workout will cover the entire body in one week. Work a major muscle and the assisting muscle group, i.e., chest and tris, back and bi's, quads and hams, shoulders, traps and abs. (Calves can be done with legs, shoulders or on an off day -- hey, it's only 4 minutes!)

I never do the same workout twice. Nothing magical. That's just the way I like it.

Protein requirements? I think you should re-read the diet chapter. I'm pretty clear on that.

Don't expect anything from the 1-AD. You will get results from the exercise techniques I outlined though. Get a refund on the 1-AD, and use the money to buy a couple of thick juicy steaks.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Hey Brad,
Glad to hear you enjoyed the book. That bicep move makes all the difference, doesn't it? As with any exercise, it'll go stale after a month or so. Do it until it stops producing results, at which point, take a break, and come back to it a few weeks later.

Since you say your legs suck, you're going to love the "4 minutes a week" calve workout. People tell me they can't walk for days afterward!

Concerning workout frequency: 4 workouts a week, 2 muscle groups a workout will cover the entire body in one week. Work a major muscle and the assisting muscle group, i.e., chest and tris, back and bi's, quads and hams, shoulders, traps and abs. (Calves can be done with legs, shoulders or on an off day -- hey, it's only 4 minutes!)

I never do the same workout twice. Nothing magical. That's just the way I like it.

Protein requirements? I think you should re-read the diet chapter. I'm pretty clear on that.

Don't expect anything from the 1-AD. You will get results from the exercise techniques I outlined though. Get a refund on the 1-AD, and use the money to buy a couple of thick juicy steaks.

 

[1fast400]

I'm curious.....do you have a pot in front of your computer that catches all the crap that pours out of your mouth?

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

Nelson may know good info on training, but his idea that 1-AD sucks is completely bunk. Its all a bunch of shit. I mean, i put on 17 pounds in about 6 weeks. Not only that but i get a lot of compliments from people that havent seen me in a couple months. My friends, coaches, and parents all asked if i used steroids. My opinion... 1-AD works!

 

[rikk]

Some people are just hard headed. Nelson happens to be one of those guys where if he doesn't say or do it then it just cant be true.

I for one am tired of him. Thanks 1fast400 and Nutri for not letting him give bro's bad advice!

 

[bebaumax]

I'm willing to bet there aren't a lot of Body-For-Life fans around here, however, I believe their transformations are real, and non-steroidal (too many of them, and I've met a lot of these people in real life). That having been said.

I don't see 1-AD Numbers that BLOW AWAY BFL numbers. (I'm referring to the numbers I've read in forums. ) In fact, they're about the same. And no one doing BFL is taking 1-AD. This seems to lend heavy evidence toward the placebo effect.

I have never taken 1-AD. I've read and read and read and... ok, you get the point. Everyone seems to say it works. But I haven't heard anyone say Body for Life doesN'T work. I'm almost ready to buy some of this 1-AD stuff, load it up at about a GRAM a day for 2 weeks, and see what I get.

At this point, the only REAL, PROVEN legal supplement I can think of to put on muscle size/strength is creatine.

I'm a skeptic. I'm not convinced either way. I am open-minded. I'd like to see studies. I just thought I'd give everyone something to think about.
-B

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

I'm willing to bet there aren't a lot of Body-For-Life fans around here, however, I believe their transformations are real, and non-steroidal (too many of them, and I've met a lot of these people in real life). That having been said.

I don't see 1-AD Numbers that BLOW AWAY BFL numbers. (I'm referring to the numbers I've read in forums. ) In fact, they're about the same. And no one doing BFL is taking 1-AD. This seems to lend heavy evidence toward the placebo effect.

I have never taken 1-AD. I've read and read and read and... ok, you get the point. Everyone seems to say it works. But I haven't heard anyone say Body for Life doesN'T work. I'm almost ready to buy some of this 1-AD stuff, load it up at about a GRAM a day for 2 weeks, and see what I get.

At this point, the only REAL, PROVEN legal supplement I can think of to put on muscle size/strength is creatine.

I'm a skeptic. I'm not convinced either way. I am open-minded. I'd like to see studies. I just thought I'd give everyone something to think about.
-B

ANd there is nothing wrong with your opinion. You are open minded which shows you do have intelligence.

Hey, 17lbs. in 6 weeks isnt bad. Yeah, body for life is a good program. But not everyone responds to the body for life program as well as others. Actually, people on body for life do use Ph's. A guy that i know who does it used some 19nor (well, a lot of 19nor) and put on good size. he also used Mag-10. A kid i know who also did body for life popped every kinda andro there is (he wasnt too bright).

 

[Dante B.]

Quite a difference there is, between a neophyte embarking upon a new program such as Body For Life with minimal experience regarding training and dieting, finding company in a new body (that is, perhaps gaining 15 pounds of muscle), and an experienced trainer come time after training, gaining 15 pounds.

Such is the placebo. Numbers lie, as they are superficial. 15 pounds in not 15 pounds, when the considerations of experience that lie under them are not equal. You would be hard pressed to find many experienced trainers who may have come upon a plateau, taking upon the BFL program; it is not that uncommon, to find veterans using 1AD.

Such is the consideration.

I honestly believe that if someone could make an effective product, they would. But they can't. And if they did, it would never be allowed on the market

ECA does not exist, I assume. Neither does Creatine, I further gather as well.

 

[Dante B.]

And to Nelson:

You posit your argument that the veils deception find themselves only in the selling of products. How do you forget, that Machiavellian veils, also find themselves in the offering of "information" by crusaders. If you wish to discount Pat Arnold and others such like him, then using that logic (since you wish to wax-philosophical), I can dismiss you, since you are selling information (and that is publicity, as the 'crusader' sells an image---such is his product).

Your logic works against you. However I assume that you are simply wrong, although others such as like you (who write and offer information) may do so with the intent to merely decieve and make money in such the process. Thus, I don't lump you in with 'everyone', since that bypasses the process of critical thought, which is what you are doing by stating (in effect) 'people lie, in order to become rich, one must lie, thus anyone who makes money is a liar'.

Define "rich". And money is not the determining factor of deciet, either. Poor men lie just as well. As with regard to the "I have been around" argument (since we wish to wax-philosophical)--many men have seen years of war, and will never undestand any rational conception of it. Some men live till eighty, and are none the more wise for it. They are "experienced" livers.

If this seems tangential, it is only for the fact that you should spend less time the crusader, and more time the thinker. If someone sees the smoke of your statements, they can use your accusations against you, too.

 

[bebaumax]

ANd there is nothing wrong with your opinion. You are open minded which shows you do have intelligence.

Hey, 17lbs. in 6 weeks isnt bad. Yeah, body for life is a good program. But not everyone responds to the body for life program as well as others. Actually, people on body for life do use Ph's. A guy that i know who does it used some 19nor (well, a lot of 19nor) and put on good size. he also used Mag-10. A kid i know who also did body for life popped every kinda andro there is (he wasnt too bright).

I agree, no single substance/programs produces results for every single person. I also know that many people, though, considered "training veterans" have had tremendous results with BFL. Simply because it provided them focus. I've met, personally, hundred of people who consider themselves "serious veterans" that don't make gains at all.

Think about it. How many regulars do you see at your gym, day in, and day out, that NEVER make a change at all? That's because the vast majority of people, starting off, or there for 15 years, have no idea WHAT they're doing, WHY they're doing it, or anything. The key missing ingredient is INTENSITY. I think many people are discovering this intensity via 1-AD. I could be wrong.

I've tried many PH's, they haven't done a thing. I think I'll try 1-AD at some point, I just need to find a super-cheap price so I can get enough for a gram a day for 4 weeks, every day on.

I do have a belief on placebo (or any other) effect, though. That is, if it works for you, please do not EVER let someone talk you out of it. To me it's like religion, HMB, or 'Energy Water'. If you feel better about yourself because of it, and you are a more fulfilled person, why would I EVER want to prove to you that it is false? If it's not hurting anyone else, and it's helping you, PLEASE, continue to believe in what you believe. I cannot imagine why someone would want to take something as powerful as a positive mindset away from another, just to prove their scientific point (and I'm pretty damn scientific).

Thanks for your comments, and I will continue to read the results posted here. If anyone who is VER SERIOUS about training, is alreay sub-10% BF, and gets day-of numbers posted and then shows us their cycle numbers, I'd LOVE to see that. I will do this if/when I get around to trying 1-AD.

-B

 

[1fast400]

Why does everyone want to take a gram of 1-AD. If people would have done the reading they claim to have done, they would know that 600mg can get you similar results as 900mg. The difference is over the course of 20 days you'll need 1 less bottle.

 

[bebaumax]

Why does everyone want to take a gram of 1-AD. If people would have done the reading they claim to have done, they would know that 600mg can get you similar results as 900mg. The difference is over the course of 20 days you'll need 1 less bottle.

If I do this, I want there to be no doubt/mistake whether or not the stuff is working. I like to start small and work down.. call me nuts. I'm not worried about side-effects, so it's not a big deal to me. I appreciate your wisdom, and if a gram works, then I'll probably try 600mg next, as that's what you're recommending, and you seem to have a pretty good grasp on things from what I've read here.
-B

 

[Nelson Montana]

You hit the nail on the head B! No one wants to believe their efforts have been in vain and no one who achieved success while using 1-AD (or anything else) wants to abandon the belief that they found "the answer."

To Dante: I see your point but your reflections are a bit convoluted. (Have you been reading Ayn Rand?) How can discrediting something work to my financial advantage? If you read the book you'll see that I endorse several supplements, and I don't make ONE DIME on the sale of any of them! So what advantage is it to say that I found some supplements inneffective?

Your extrapolation that if "liars gets rich, than all people who are rich are liars" is comparable to saying that "if all pedophiles are adults therfore all adults are pedophiles." It's off base, specious and silly.

Look at the people who have been the most vocal about this issue -- the guy who is obviously proud that he "developed" the product, and a guy who sells PH's through a website. WHAT A SHOCK! Meanwhile, legends such as Dave Draper and Dennis Weis have praised my book. People with REAL degrees, such as Dr. Eric Serrano advise people to read it. I guess it can't suck that bad. But hey, if a salesmans opinion is worth more to you, who am I to argue?

I have nothing to prove. No subterfuge. No ulterior motive. Nothing else to sell. I only set out to write a book that I thought a lot of people would enjoy and hopefully learn something from. It isn't a "feel good" "live your dreams" type of book and I know that's what a lot of people want.

You may agree with some things. You may disagree with some things. That's fine. But if you get something out of it, then it's worth it.

 

[Dante B.]

Did I say that all rich men are liars, or was I using your logic? It was the latter. Reread everything you posted, and then read my retort. That is your logic, in assuming that 'some people in this industry are getting rich', using that against Pat Arnold.

You wrote a book. "Uncovering" myths turns the gears of the financial machine, too. That is a product---"truth".

You missed my point. Instead of discounting Pat directly, you used the fact that he sells products, as the tool of dismissal. And, you are a salesmen, just as anyone who sells a given product. A person with a "degree", who offers his science for money, is selling his product.

Such is not the issue, my friend. You simply wish to discount Pat and 1Fast for the fact that they are selling products (as though that action were indicative of duplicity); everyone is selling something.

And in terms of those who are most vociferous, did you even stop to think that perhaps they care about what they do, and perhaps they are speaking the truth as so they see it? And if wrong, it is in honesty? But no, you are the silent spectator, who offers nothing.

And as for "I have nothing to sell", again you do. Your book. Now, assuming that you believe in it, I shall assume that anyone that wished to discount you, should state far more beyond that fact that "this guy is selling his book". And to such the same, you should do as much, when seeking to discredit someone, since "selling" an item or a service is not the tale of deceit.

"Discredits" do work to one's advantage, as people wish to seek upon the "truth". And by offering a book which tells such a tale, such is the potential profit. But again, you missed my point. I am not accusing you of anything, other than using faulty logic to accuse others. I simply am showing you that your sword can be wielded just as well against you.

 

[1fast400]

Ahhh Dante Dante Dante.......


I always enjoy your post. There is one fault in your thinking. You assume that Nelson will understand your post. This is someone who doesn't want to be confused with science or facts. Any line of reasoning that shows him to be wrong or in error will be discredited with his own moronic logic. He has convinced himself in his own mind that he is correct and can not be at fault. The tunnel vision syndrome seen in many other aspects of life has fallen upon him. We can only hope the consumer will go out and educate themselves, rather than listen to the worthless babble that flows from the keyboard of Mr. Montana. It makes me wonder if the same tunnel vision was used when writing his book.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Dante: You DEFINITELY read Ayn Rand! Your manner of speaking is so "Galtian", so "Roarky." At least it shows you've got something on the ball, but you, like Ayn, need to lighten up.

Let's put it in simple terms. My experience with PH's based on research, personal experience, and the closely monitored experience of others is that the negatives outweigh the positives. I believe Pat is sincere in his belefs about 1AD, just as he was with androsteine and androstendiol and nor androstene and 4 AD and cyclodextrins and everything else that didn't work.

Sure, I'm looking to sell my book. But if someone doesn't like it, it doesn't raise their estrogen levels.

1fast400: I may not have the scientific knowledge of a guy with the prestigious credentials of owning a website that sells prohormones, but I know a few things. At any rate. I'm done. Say what you will. Don't buy the book.

If anyone has any questions, they can contact me via personal mail and I'll be happy to offer a response. Peace.

 

[Dante B.]

Nelson,

My manner of writing and/or speaking is less so due to whom I may read, and more so due to the fact that I am a conceited, somewhat delusional character with fleeting fancies of existential importance, meant to mask an inferiority complex. But that is beside the point.

If you would have more experience (either personal, or via the observation of others) with 1-Test and 4AD transdermals such the difference you would notice. Even upon some Steroid boards, some have proclaimed the effectiveness of 1AD (although making statement that they would rather spend their money on 'gear'. The point being that even some 'harsh-critics' such as them, do see some benefit in those regards [which is not to say that they are always the most logical of critics, since I don't equate the quality of air with the heat of the wind]).

Experience is not always applicable to every given context; in your case, your context is the past (regarding the Estrogen, and such; however that was a rather clever statement with regards to your book and Estrogen---good use of wit).

The statements against 4AD and other earlier pro-hormones was due to the bioavailabilty. Given that Androdione is obsolete, 4AD has been put to good use via transdermal administartion. And in that consideration, a difference would be seen (Androdione will lead to Estrogenic issues, however one can not deduce from that, the downfall of other related compounds---as you stated yourself---'similar is not the same').

Notice that I don't attack your character or your credentials. I simply attack the argument. Wish you would do such the same for 1Fast and others ('owning a website and selling pro-hormones' being the calumny in question--you attack him, and not the call in question).

I could have mentioned that you were a high-school dropout, or a Biotest employee, but I don't see that being as relevant to the argument (as others erroneously used that to discount you; they could not attack the issue, so they attack the person); perhaps you should look beyond ownership and association, as well.

 

[Nutri-Wrestler]

Dante, i love your posts... they make me smile

Hey Nelson, i go great gains from my 1-AD and boldione stack. Just try it and i bet u will change ur mind

 

[javaguru]

Speaking as someone who has NO financial interest whatsoever in bodybuilding I can say with 100% confidence that after trying injecatble 4-ad-ec I will NEVER use an illegal steroid again. The latest generation of OTC steroids is a far cry from the early andro products.

 

[bebaumax]

Speaking as someone who has NO financial interest whatsoever in bodybuilding I can say with 100% confidence that after trying injecatble 4-ad-ec I will NEVER use an illegal steroid again. The latest generation of OTC steroids is a far cry from the early andro products.

Were you drinking coffee when you did this, or was this a Java-free injectable?

On a serious note, I didn't know there WAS an injectible OTC PH. What kind of results did you get from this? Did you change your diet/exercise routine while you were 'on'?
-B

 

[javaguru]

Actually, I can't stand coffee. I prefer diet soda or straight pills for my caffeine delivery.

The 4-ad-ec can be purchased over the counter but any conversion has to be done by the purchaser. I initiated a whole thread on the subject. Do a search for 'injectable 4-ad' and you should be able to find it or combine it with a search using my username.

 

[1fast400]

I may not have the scientific knowledge of a guy with the prestigious credentials of owning a website that sells prohormones, but I know a few things

Assuming you know little about me, it was very ignorant of you to assume what I have and have not done.

Post college, I decided to go into this business. The main reason why is I hate seeing people get ripped off. I hate the ignorant educated the masses on what should and shouldn't be taken supplement wise. This is why I post on this thread. You are the reason I'm in business. When people listen to your worthless babble, they will eventually come to me and ask questions. Once I set them straight and get them on the right track, they will see results. They will see results with the exact things you said are worthless. This leads to your eventual discrediting as a source of information. Acutally, I guess I should thank you. It is people like you who keep me in business.

 

[Par Deus]

Gotta love those "20-30 lb, mostly lean, in 6-8 weeks" placebo effects. Jesus.

 

[Scaggs]

Hey Par Deus,

I will be posting a placebo report on my 1 test experience. I was convinced in the beginning but... i really think now it was mostly a placebo. I did get really nice strength gains but not much mass.

Scaggs
Scaggs

 

[Dante B.]

You mentioned on another thread that you were up by some ten pounds. And as 1-Test does not aromatize some do lean out (meaning not much mass depending on caloric intake) while gaining a great degree of strength (which would then lead one in wonder as to how this sudden increase was determined as placebo).

 

[Scaggs]

You mentioned on another thread that you were up by some ten pounds. And as 1-Test does not aromatize some do lean out (meaning not much mass depending on caloric intake) while gaining a great degree of strength (which would then lead one in wonder as to how this sudden increase was determined as placebo).

Well i definelty increased strength. but i put on an easy 10 lbs. but i have been hammering creatine which also could have played the part in my strength increases. im just not thinking it is as anabolic as any real gear. for a little more than the money i spent on it i could have done a real gear cycle and got the results i really want. I've never done a real gear cycle so i will know 1-test's placebo when i do.

Scaggs

 

[javaguru]

Scaggs, how was your diet? Were you cutting? Depending on your metabolism you may need to increase calories by 1,000 to 2,000 over your maintenance level. When cutting you're not going to gain appreciable mass on 1-test or gear. I ahve a friend that has been working out for fifteen years and maintains 3%-6% BF year round and claims steroids 'don't work' because his diet isn't condusive to gaining muscle.

Also, a lot of people are expecting gains from 1-test like you would get from testosterone cypionate. They are two different steroids with very different effects. Try an oral primobolin only cycle at 150mg ED(if you could afford it) and see how much mass you gain in eight weeks.

 

[bradoneal]

Ok, end of 2 weeks update:

Weight: 209 (+6lbs. from start and a new high for me)
Bench +15lbs (275 to 290)

ALL other lifts are up reps. ALL!

This one heck of a placebo ride!

I've decided to stay with 600 mg. per day (200mg X3)

I have increased calories by about 500-1000 to 3500-3800 per day as an average. Some a little more or less.

I think there is slightly more vascularity in shoulders and legs but this is not enough to be conclusive yet. My arms constantly feel like they are slightly "pumped" and I am getting awesome pumps at the gym.

These were the results I was expecting from Myo-Blast and got none of them!

If someone would have convinced me I had 275 on the bar (but really had 290) there is no way in hell I could lift it. Maybe 280, but not a 15lb. jump. Those who insist 1-AD is placebo are in true denial.

More updates to come.

 

[Dante B.]

Dante, i love your posts... they make me smile

Yes, I'm just one of those people who ceaselessly elicits that great strike of overwhelming joy in others!

On a secondary line of mention, I did finish off this debate with Nelson via Email. Be it sufficient to say that we don't see eye to eye, but he is a good guy regardless (within a context, but of course).