gaining mass on a low calorie diet- at or below "genetic limit"

[Fonz]

IMHO, the only 2 steroids capable of letting you gain
muscle and lose fat at the same time while you're below
your genetic limit, and you're consuming below maintenance
calories are Oxanadrolone and Primobolan.
They are the only two with a sufficiently strong
nutrient partitioning effect at lowered calories.
Also, IMHO Anavar is better than primo at doing this.

Godspeed

 

[YoungNHugeGuns]

Last year, before I even touched gear, I decided to diet off my gut. I was big, at 195# (well, big for 20 y/o and no gear), but still had that gut.

Still, completely clean, I went on a diet. My only carbs were complex carbs an hour before my workout and sugar right after. I had protein every three hours. I did intense cardio 4 mornings a week. I did e every weekend (which, as long as you stay hydrated, helps burn fat). My weight went from 195 to, well, 195, but I lost a significant amount of fat. Didn't measure the percentage, but got plenty of comments from people.

This means that, even not on anything (but 20 years old is a time of high natural testocerone levels anyway), I gained the same amount of weight in muscle that I lost in fat.

Maybe I genetically have a slow metabolism, and a lot of the extra calories were superfluous and not necessary for growth, and the cardio and dieting just shaved those calories off.

 

[Zyglamail]

Interesting subject Andy. 3 weeks into a cutting cycle my self. i started at 5'11", 236lbs, not at 245lbs and down 3%bf(19% roughly). Taking fina/winny. Using the 12x calorie rule for maint cals, that puts me at 2940 for maint. During the week I consume1900 to 2500 cals a day with plenty of protien and around maint cals on weekends. So far I am very pleased with my gains and BF loss.

 

[Andy13]

Sorry.. I actually DID mean lean muscle gains. I don't consider intramuscular lard and water to be gains.

 

[Vageta]

I am attempting this right now with an oxandrolone only cycle. I wanted to diet down for a cruise coming up in October and as my bodyfat has gotten lower I can see the need for more mass in areas. At only 3 months away from the cruise I knew I wouldn't be able to bulk and cut efficiently so I got some oxandrolone and am attempting to do them both simultaneously. So far the results are positive thought it's only been a week so far. Fact is I'm up a few pounds in weight and I am in a negative calorie balance. I look leaner in my arms already though I haven't noticed much on my stomach yet. I'm hoping in a week or so I can get a better idea on results and can make a calorie adjustment if necessary. I have 12 weeks of this so over the long term I'm sure I'll come out ahead.

I think it is physiologically impossible to burn fat and gain muscle at the same time, literally. Anabolism and catabolism are completely different states and can't be sustained at the same time. However your body can switch between them many times per day which over the span of hours will essentially be at "the same time". I eat 7 small meals a day, each with 45g of protein. I think if you supply protein in sufficient amounts throughout the day, keep carbs moderate and fat relatively low and mostly EFAs then you could accomplish this feat. Also food timing around workouts is very important as well. If your body builds muscle following workouts, and burns fat the morning before your workout it will slowly alter your bodyfat %. Your weight may not fluctuate much but in actuality you are drastically altering your body composition.